elon musk
EPISODE 81
We re-visit one of our favourite innovators of all time, Elon Musk. Join us as we learn what motivates Elon, and how he navigates the naysayers as well as the celebrators.
Elon Musk (buy on Amazon) is a South African-born American entrepreneur and businessman who founded X.com in 1999 (which later became PayPal), SpaceX in 2002 and Tesla Motors in 2003. Musk became a multimillionaire in his late 20s when he sold his start-up company, Zip2, to a division of Compaq Computers.
SHOW OUTLINE
INTRO
What motivates Elon to start these companies, even though it seems impossible (explaining AFTER Paypal)
Sometimes your 'why' is a goal that seems unachievable
(2m32s)
Building what users need is how you guarantee a product’s success
Focus on what users want
(1m28s)
CREATING GOOD TIMES
When the going gets tough, it’s easier when you like what you’re doing
Make sure to LIKE what you do - best motivator
(28s)
The most important foundation for a business? The right people
If you're building a company, start by gathering the right people
(36s)
WAYS OF DEALING WITH THE HARD TIMES
Don’t listen to the critics, because you can always learn
Overcome the critics, even if they're your heroes
(1m26s)
Find input and criticism from everyone around you
Seek out criticism to keep improving
(1m05s)
OUTRO
Once you get through the valley of darkness, you’ll find happiness again
Have a high pain threshold
(48s)
READING
Elon Musk: How the billionaire CEO of SpaceX and Tesla is shaping our future
TRANSCRIPT
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Transcript
Mike Parsons: Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It is a super galactic and intergalactic episode, 81. I’m Mike Parsons and as always, I'm joined by the star gazer, the moonshots traveler himself. Mr. Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning, Mark.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Good morning, Mike astronauts and captain Mike. It's a great, a beautiful day to be surfing around the globe, looking down at all innovators on planet earth.
Mike Parsons: Isn't it? It is wonderful. And there has never been a better day to return to one of our absolute if not. Our favorite innovator, our favorite pioneer. Where are we going today, Mark?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Yeah, as you say, he's one of our absolute favorites. We've actually covered this particular innovator a couple of times in the past.
Um, but we're so excited to be returning to him again today. It is mr. Elon Musk, founder of so many incredibly, uh, you know, global household. Brands, uh, you know, in the tech space as well as the intergalactic space. And there's just so much we can delve into with Elon Musk. Isn't there, Mike.
Mike Parsons: There is an what a show we have installed for you today because we are going to touch on some of Elon's mental models.
But for this show, we've put our huge research team together. We've gone deep. And far and wide into the internet and found some of his real beliefs. He's added shoes. He's mantras. The core values that have helped him create billion dollar companies like space X, like Tesla, and many, many more. We have a show full of learning and insight and some incredibly powerful and candid interviews where we've got.
The real golden nugget, uh, from what he has to share with us and what we can learn from this, this is going to be like a rocket ship. This show, this one, it's going to be so much fun. We've got so many good clips, Ilan. I mean, Where do you begin fro apart from our admiration for him from here, our admiration of emotion.
Say the key thing is the guy's pretty Frank and open. And what this gives us access to is the insight. Um, some of the inner thoughts and feelings and beliefs that he has. So it's going to be action packed. Isn't it?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Yeah, it really is. Like you say, he's, he's quite present in all of our lives. He's obviously a man that often on.
From pages, but he doesn't just stay within the bounds of the business pages. You know, he's, he's a celebrity as much as he is an entrepreneur and a cofounder of, of all these billion dollar companies. He's at the height of, um,
Mike Parsons: you know, pop culture.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: So we can see so much of Elon in a lot of the things that are around us.
He's regularly
Mike Parsons: making, uh,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: newspaper headlines with his tweets. Um, Uh, quite astounding,
Mike Parsons: almost
Mark Pearson-Freeland: superhero, uh, behaviors and decisions in business. I mean, it's, he's quite unique.
Mike Parsons: He is. He is. And I tell you who else is unique, Mark? Our listeners. Um, it has been so great. Uh, we we've switched the show to weekly, uh, recently, and we're seeing.
Really a, a huge uptick in, um, new listeners joining the show. And the one thing for sure I know about our listeners is they have some pretty cool usernames don't they mind
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you. All right. I'll read the first. And then you read the second. We've had two fantastic, uh, new reviews that we just wanted to call out.
Right at the beginning of the show, one is from
Mike Parsons: a beef
Mark Pearson-Freeland: bullion from the USA who we really, really appreciate the, uh, the. Fantastic. And kind of sentiment of your review. That's very, very kind. And the second review that also we've should call out. Mike is a BC wise
Mike Parsons: four, one four,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: again, from the USA. Thank you so much.
These are fantastic. We love hearing these
Mike Parsons: reviews
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and it means a lot to us to hear your feedback, hear your points of view. So please, please, please keep them coming.
Mike Parsons: Um, it's it's um, we love it and it's so great to see people from far and wide joining the show to learn, uh, from innovators. We welcome a whole batch of new German listeners, uh, hooks into we've even.
Got two outstanding, uh, new countries where a ton of people who have been listening to us, it is a lap fear and none other than Mongolia as well. Um, I just am so excited by the idea of people all around the world, coming together to learn from the innovators to be the very best version of themselves. So thank you to all of you who have contributed to the growth of the show and.
Hi, Mark. I'm ready to get stuck into Ilan. I'm sure our listeners are, where are we going to start this adventure, this galactic adventure today? Well, I think
Mark Pearson-Freeland: the most sensible place to start with is what. Really motivates Ilan because you just have to look him up on Wikipedia. If you don't already know him.
And just the list of companies that he's co-founded and created, it are mindblowing. So the first clip that we thought we wanted to kick off with is understanding a little bit
Mike Parsons: about Elan.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: What motivates him and why this idea of starting with why is a goal that you just need to kick off with?
Elon Musk: It really wasn't from the perspective of what's the order, the best way to make money, which is okay.
But it was really what I think is going to most affect the future of humanity. So I think the biggest terrestrial problem we've got is sustainable energy, but the production and consumption of energy in a sustainable manner. If we don't solve that the century where we're in deep trouble and then the other one being the extension of life beyond a, to make life multi-planetary.
So. The latter is the basis for space X and the former is the basis for Tesla and solar city. And when I started space X, it actually initially I thought that, well, this there's no way one could possibly start a rocket company. I wasn't that crazy. I thought, well, what is the way to increase NASA's budget?
That was actually my initial goal. So I thought, well, if we can do a low cost commission tomorrow as something called the Mazda waste, which would land. Hydrate a nutrient gel and you hydrate them upon landing. And then you'd have this grading sort of money shot of great plants on a red background. The public tends to respond to precedents and superlatives, and this would be the first life on Mars.
The boast, the lifestyle would travel as far as we know. And I thought, well, that would get people really excited and therefore increase a message budget. So obviously the financial outcome from such a mission would probably be zero. So anything better than that was only upside. So I actually went to Russia three times to look at mine ever furbished ICBM, because that was the best deal.
And I can tell you, it was very weird going there in 2000 late, 2001, 2002, join sort the Russian rocket forces and saying, I'd like to buy two of your biggest rockets, if you can keep the news. So that's a lot more, they thought I was crazy, but I did have money. So that was. That was okay. After making several trips to Russia, I came to conclusion that actually my initial impression was, was wrong, but because my initial thought was, well, there's not enough well to explore and expand beyond and have a Moz base and that kind of thing.
But I came from Christian that that was wrong. In fact, there's plenty of world, particularly in the United States because the United States is a nation of explorers. So people that came here from. From other parts of the world. I think the United States is really a distillation of the spirit of human exploration.
Mike Parsons: So there you go. I mean, Talk about starting with a big vision, a big purpose. I think Simon Sinek would be certain proud of it. Elon Musk don't you Merck.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Yeah, you really would. What I love about that is how he starts with, when I started space X, it seems like such a casual notion to Elon. You know, this idea of an intergalactic reason for being is to get up tomorrow and plant some seeds, you know, to all of us, it seems.
Absolutely unachievable. But what he did was he got on a plane. He went to a country where he could buy rockets and he genuinely began making it happen. He stuck to that gun. He had the vision of improving humanity. It was totally open-minded going into it and actually this idea of productivity and just making it happen.
He did. And I think that's
Mike Parsons: so empowering. Isn't it? Well, you already start to get a flavor of how many people thought he was crazy. Yeah, but his boldness and his courage came from the fact that he had such a powerful vision. And I think that's one of the great learnings here. He's literally giving his why statement.
If you were to get into Simon cynic's work, this is his why. And, um, By the way it just so happens. It makes a company. Oh. And by the way, it just so happened makes money. But it's really about that purpose. And that's what has helped him get through the good times and the bad. But this next clip that we have is it's actually caught from, from the same speech.
But this time he's going to segue into, if what we just heard was the why, what we're going to listen to now is, is how. And it's our favorite of favorite focuses. It is. Absolutely the best starting point. That is the user and that is a customer. So let's listen now to Elon Musk talking about focusing on what customers want, have
Elon Musk: some internet stuff.
One of which has PayPal. And I think maybe it's helpful to say one of the things that was important then in the creation of PayPal was kind of how it started because the initial thought was with PayPal was to create an agglomeration of financial services, sort of, if you have one place where. All your financial services needs would be seamlessly integrated and work smoothly.
And then we had like a little feature, which was to do email payments. And whenever we show the system off to someone we'd show the hard part, which was the agglomeration of financial services, which was quite difficult to put together. Nobody was interested. Then we'd show people, email payments, which was actually quite easy and everybody was interested.
So this is, uh, I think it's important to, to, to take feedback from your environment. You know, you want to be as close loop as possible. So we focused on email payments and really try to make that work. And that's what really got things to take off. But if we hadn't responded to what people said, then we probably would not have been successful.
So it's important to look for things like that and focus on them when you see them and get correct your prior assumptions. And then going from PayPal, I thought it will. What are some of the, the other problems that, uh, are likely to most affect the future of humanity?
Mike Parsons: Just like you say, Mike,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: it's listening to your users.
It's the foundation of, so. Much of the work that you and I do. It's so, uh, it's such a fact that we visited a lot with our past
Mike Parsons: innovators as well. And
Mark Pearson-Freeland: it's a great demonstration from Milan here where he's building a company it's very, very complicated and technical, and there's a lot of different parties all coming together to
Mike Parsons: create a product,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: uh, that in that time was PayPal.
But actually what the users were most attracted to was this idea of just sending money to one another. And that's such a new spin, you know, and it reminds us that we might be really, really close to a product
Mike Parsons: or a problem.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And we might have the, the off chance that our subjectivity, uh, impacts what we believe is the priority.
But actually the lesson that we should take from, from that little
Mike Parsons: clip, there is
Mark Pearson-Freeland: one, just go and check. It doesn't, it doesn't take much time to go and talk to your users.
Mike Parsons: I think, I think the, um, the interesting thing he's doing here though, is he saying you have to make yourself available for these different points of view and for this feedback, but he touched on it just briefly.
And I think what this is really important is we all have very big assumptions when we endeavor to go out and build a product or a business. And what he's really saying is he had to change his assumptions. He thought he could build a conglomerate digital bank, but people just wanted to email some cashier.
Um, and. He was prepared to change his assumptions. And I think, uh, any good adaptive leader will find the capacity to do that. Now I think that the real problem that we face in changing our assumptions. Is these assumptions that we hold in creating a company, a product, or even doing a project where we're powered by a set of assumptions, that it would be good to do this.
It is important that we do that. And then what happens is along the way, If we're doing it right. We're testing and learning with customers and with users and some of their feedback might challenge those assumptions, but those assumptions have been the fuel, the mantra, the things we're striving for, but all of a sudden we discovered that actually those assumptions were incorrect.
And a lot of people, a lot of people have a great deal of trouble. Opening themselves up to those assumptions and changing them and actually being more of a tester and learner or someone who always seeks to validate what they assume. And if the validation is not there, they're prepared to change. And I think this is a very.
Very powerful, uh, lessons from Elan he's he has a certain detachment from his assumptions and his ideas in so much as he has. He's like Jeff Bezos, very stubborn on vision, but he's quite flexible on how he'll get there. And if people don't want the end to end bank, but they just want to email money. Well, okay.
He he'll go with that. And I think. That's a separator he's prepared to change. when he's presented with clear evidence. And I think that capacity to learn and grow is something we've seen in real time with Ilan, with all of the mistakes. That he like anyone would make, but if you look at net net where he's arrived at, I mean, Tesla is an enormous threat to the traditional automotive industry space.
X is the clear leader in the space industry. So, what we see is being able to challenge your assumptions and learn and grow is a key ingredient of his success. Isn't it?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Oh, I really is. And what a fantastic set of clips, just to show us that behavior and beliefs for that, that Ilan demonstrates, you know, in the previous shows that
Mike Parsons: we'd covered
Mark Pearson-Freeland: with Elon, you know, like you said, at the beginning, we've.
Delved into, um, how he thinks critically and some of the mental models that he shows. But actually, I think some of these clips that we've just touched on as well as what else we've got coming up in the show really does reveal this element of flexibility, this idea of, uh, assuming, or, uh, you know, receiving this idea
Mike Parsons: of change
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and actually how, you know, he admits to the odd mistake here and there, you know, whether
Mike Parsons: it's.
In the culture or
Mark Pearson-Freeland: in business. So it's just revealing him as a, as a character I think is really, really nice.
Mike Parsons: So how do you think Mark taking this inspiration from Ian? How might you, um, embrace change even to some deeply held assumptions that you have? Um, how might we. Kind of, you know, embody some of the same Elon like flexibility.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Well, yeah, it's a great question. And it's empowering to hear that Ilan himself, even though he is a, you know, a superhero, so to speak with all these incredible companies and even he can sometimes be wrong
Mike Parsons: or proven wrong
Mark Pearson-Freeland: when it gets into the hands of users and consumers. So for me, I think the. Uh, the drive to be less subjective will, um, It come through when I'm delivering some work.
So I might receive a brief perhaps or creative request and
Mike Parsons: I'll look at it and
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I'll go away. I might do some homework, maybe do a little bit of research. I'll look at what's available to me. And then maybe prior to sending directly to. The additional party, you know, whether it's a client or a colleague, maybe I'll speak a little bit of reassurance from another
Mike Parsons: input.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Maybe it's talking to yourself for example, or talking to another colleague. And that for me, just allows me personally to see both sides of that coin, because as Ilan is saying, we might be coming at it too subjective. We might be coming at it too. One sided and seeking, you
Mike Parsons: know, this idea of, uh, feedback
Mark Pearson-Freeland: from others is actually going to be a clip that we'll come onto in a little bit later in the show.
How about you, Mike?
Mike Parsons: What do you, what do you
Mark Pearson-Freeland: get inspired by
Mike Parsons: from, from Elan? I think the, the way in which I can challenge assumptions, I think there's two really good questions that we can all use. The first one is really simple is that when someone says, Oh, the best thing to do is, um, to build a product that does this, um, just, um, Embody the very best of Toyota's critical thinking and ask the question why, and then they'll say, Oh, because this will do this well, why?
And if you ask why five times you often can get some very good first principles and critical thinking. I think the other thing you can do in a collaborative, perhaps a bit more collaborative is to ask what evidence do we have to support that? Because what I am always surprised by in discussing ideas, let's say that generally notions for creating new products and services, because that's kind of my world.
What I'm always interested in is that the greatest contribution I can. Often provide a founder, a CEO is to like, help me understand, explain why, show me the evidence, what data do we have just as an exercise to make sure that we're building on a strong foundation of data and insight, and often what you see people.
Might have jumped a couple of steps, so there might be some things happening and they've assumed the solution to be X, Y, and Z. Um, and I think that's a really a great way to challenge assumptions. Ask why, look for the evidence. And sometimes that can take you down a path and, you know, when someone. When you challenge someone and you get into a conversation, you can start or just forget what they're saying.
You can tell how they're saying it. You will sense how deep they know this problem solution, how deep they know the use case, how deep they know the true way in which something works. And, um, that can be a great way to challenge assumptions or help reaffirm. To confirm those assumptions either way. It's a good result because you might improve the assumption or double down and be stronger in your belief.
I think that's just one of the many gifts from Elan. Uh, Mark. Um, now we should let our users know that coming ahead for the show, um, We've got two big buckets of clips. We've got a whole bucket of thinking from Elon Musk around creating good times. And my what's that second bucket look like. Well,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: there'll be no, and there'll be no two sides of the coin.
If we didn't compliment the good times with dealing with those hard times.
Mike Parsons: So we've got quite an action packed show, uh, coming here, but if someone's thinking to themselves, I'm sure these guys have done Ilan before. The truth is Mark. Not only did we do a Jeff and Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk special, uh, some 30 or 40 shows ago, but way back at the beginning of time show, one of the moonshots podcasts was in fact.
Elon Musk. And if you wanted to go check it out, What would be your coordinates in the galaxy? Where would you head towards, where would you go in Lightspeed towards type into this
Mark Pearson-Freeland: space? Computer www.moonshotsand.io right there in the center of the galaxy, or at least of the moonshots galaxy. You'll find all of our archive shows, including those two previous Elon Musk shows that we've done in the past, as well as our more recent.
A sports innovative series where we covered Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, and very recently, Joe Rogan you'll find transcripts for the shows. You'll find our show outlines talking about some of the mental models and behaviors that we've seen from these integrators, as well as a host of other. Goodies.
So please everybody go and check out moonshots.io, come and give us a visit and let us know what you think.
Mike Parsons: Sounds great. And next up, we've got some more wisdom from Ilan, and what's really interesting about this is with featured this, uh, this idea of following your efforts. Uh, following your craft versus following your passion.
And, um, somewhere in the middle of all of that is some thinking from ELL, which is essential for your survival as a creator designer, entrepreneur builder. So let's have a listen now to Ilan talking about why it's so important. To like what you do
Elon Musk: really liking what you do, whatever area that you get into, given that, you know, even if you're, if you're the best of the best,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: there's always a chance of failure.
Elon Musk: So I think it's important that you really like whatever you're doing, if you don't like it, life is too short.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: If you like
Elon Musk: what you're doing, you think about it, even when you're not working. I mean, it'll just, it's something that your mind is drawn to. Um, and, and if you don't like it, you just really
Mike Parsons: can't make it work.
I think
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I love that. It's such a nice short little clip. Um, again, it's a great demonstration of Elan's beliefs and behaviors. I can imagine him sitting at home thinking about all of these different companies and all of the different projects he's got going on while he's sipping his morning coffee, um, because he just loves what he's doing.
He's enjoying it. And if we cast our minds back to the first clip we had on this show where he's getting on a plane, flying to Russia, to look at missiles, imagine doing that when you're not interested. And you don't like what you're doing,
Mike Parsons: you
Mark Pearson-Freeland: know, we've all had times in our careers maybe even lives
Mike Parsons: where.
You get
Mark Pearson-Freeland: asked to do something and you kind of think, Oh, that's a bit of a drag, not a hard to motivate yourself. Isn't it? So what's, as you point out, Mike, what's different to perhaps some of the other innovators who, again, were retracing, this idea of don't follow your passion. What are you saying? Here is, yeah, that's true.
But actually try to see, um, Try to find something that you, you do like doing, because when you're committing all of your time, your effort and your, your mindset to it, you're going to have to stay positive to a certain extent. There's good time vide you, you're going to have to really immerse yourself and learn about it.
I think is one of the key things that Ilan demonstrates he becomes in the field.
Mike Parsons: You, you, you want to, you know, grab a great book on your domain or area of practice and learn and read, and that's going to get really hard if you don't like it. But I think the, the caution that we offer that we've heard, particularly from Cal Newport, check out that show, if you want to get more into this is, um, You don't have to be a passionate about it because turning your hobbies and passions into your, into your career is proven to not be.
A very fruitful endeavor and I can speak to that from personal experience, but you have to like it, you have to have, you have to be curious and interested and compelled by the people, the practice for the art, the craft, the science of whatever you're doing. There has to be a genuine interest there because.
I guarantee you that later today on my run work, thoughts will come into my mind and I'm very comfortable with that. And I often find myself going for a jog and a, an idea just comes into my mind because I like what I do. And I'm like, Oh, for what? I'm like, I don't want to stop in and try and dictate it into my watch or anything.
So I'm like, remember the idea of, remember the idea of remember that idea. Um, And I'm quite happy and comfortable with that. And I think that just means whether the, the aperture in your mind is closed or open to your practice. If you're just crunching away nine to five, and you're not interested at all in your work, your, your results and your outcomes, again, to be diminished, you don't have to be madly.
In love with your practice, but you got to like it, your bias has to be towards interesting curiosity. Otherwise it's just going to get hard. And what are you on teachers as it's not in the good times? Cause you know, everyone can sell well in good weather. It's when the weather gets bad, that's when you really need to have still that underlying attraction to the craft.
And so. It's so interesting that he prescribes us. One of the key things to get things started. Um, it's all about liking what you do, but he's got more advice about creating good times and getting things started. Doesn't he? He
Mark Pearson-Freeland: does. He does. So if we are moving away from liking what you do, uh, you know, reading books, learning the craft, becoming an expert.
You know, all of that kind of drives up this passion or this, this enjoyment that you find in your work, the most important thing, um, alongside that. So passion and enjoyment is really, uh, focusing on
Mike Parsons: who those people around
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you, who are the right team, who are the right individuals that can help you go and build a product or a business or a corporation
Mike Parsons: paths.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: So the next clip that we've got from Ilan is, uh, if you're going to go and build a company, Start by gathering
Mike Parsons: the right
Mark Pearson-Freeland: people.
Mike Parsons: If
Elon Musk: you're creating a company, or if you're joining a couple, the most important thing is to attract great people. So either be with join a group, that's amazing that you really respect, or if you're building a company, you've got to gather great people.
I mean, all the company is, is a group of people that have gathered together to create a product or service. And so depending upon how talented and hardworking that group is and the greeter, which they have focused cohesively in a good direction that will attend. Success of the company. So do everything you can to, to gather great people.
Uh, if, if you're creating a company,
Mike Parsons: Oh, Jim Collins would be so proud right now. I mean, this is so essential, isn't it? Mark. And I love the reductionist thinking here all a company is, is a bunch of people who've come together. To build something like that is so true. And it is so important to focus on having the right people, people who are also sharing in some of those core values, some of those who have complementary skills, but more than anything, um, mobilized energized by the mission.
And that's where Ilan really serves what we learned from Simon Sinek. So well that, you know, people don't buy what you do. They. By why you were doing it. And that goes for staff, employees, and customers as well. And it's all about the right. People so good.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: So good. You know, Jim Collins, like you say, this is a fantastic, uh, series that we did, um, you know, 10 or so episodes back.
So I encourage all of our listeners to go and check those out. Really, really fantastic thinking from Jim. Again, a guy who's totally informed by data and I think Ilan and Jim would make great dinner party guests. Don't you think Mike?
Mike Parsons: Imagine being a fly on that wall. I mean, it would be so good, but maybe Ilan just wouldn't come to the dinner party.
Cause he's too busy working on one of these 10 companies.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: We're at the halfway point, we've dealt with this a quite positive. Mindset is positive vibes of Stony accompany with the right people, liking what you're doing as well as hearing a little bit from Elan on, uh, making goals achievable and
Mike Parsons: more importantly,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: listening to what your users want. As we tease at the beginning of the show, the next half is going
Mike Parsons: to be a little bit more
Mark Pearson-Freeland: about resilience.
This idea of dealing with the hard
Mike Parsons: times.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: The next clip that we're going to look straight into
Mike Parsons: is Ilan telling her Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark. I think we've got everyone in such a good mood. Don't think we should throw this opportunity away. Um, one of the things I was so excited to share with you and the listeners is that, um, because people have been reviewing and rating the show so much, we've been catapulting and growing the audience and getting to new countries, um, building and growing our community.
I mean, Check this out. Mark it's it's, it's really remarkable that the, the show is listened to, I mean, in so many different countries, it's, it's so exciting. Um, But we even managed to find ourselves now ranking really high on the global chats for, for a charitable, which is sort of the official, uh, ranking.
Can you believe Mark that out of all the global business podcasts, ours is in terms of listenership. Now 120 fourth in the world is that,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: wow. That is ridiculous. That's actually. That's pretty incredible. We've gone, uh, stratospheric intergalactic, 124 in the world. Thank you, listeners.
Mike Parsons: I mean a huge, thank you a huge, thank you.
A huge amount of gratitude, but here's the button there. We've got the good vibes from the last eclipse. I think our audience, well look, they're listening to the moonshots podcast, so I think they're pretty partial to a moonshot. I think we should challenge them. Can we make, can the moonshots podcast make the top 100 most listened to business podcasts in the world?
I think we can. Mark. Oh, a great
Mark Pearson-Freeland: moonshot goal. I love it.
Mike Parsons: Let's do it. Now, the question is how do our listeners contribute? Cause they're the ones that do the hard work here
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and you you're totally right. Mike and I, um, we just turn up and, and, you know,
Mike Parsons: chat away into the show.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: We have a lot of fun. You, you, as our listeners, you're very much part of the team.
You are the right people in Jim Collins, his words you guys got on the bus. Um, and we've, we're very happy to have you here and being on the journey with us. So please, please, if you like what you're hearing and you like what we're covering in each of our shows, pop along to your Apple podcasts or your podcasting software of choice, leave us a review.
Leave us a rating, share it with your friends, your family, um, onto social media. Um, whoever you think might get a little bit of interest and intrigue and
Mike Parsons: a little bit of,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you know, learnings from the show. Uh, as Mike already said, we're coming up in some fantastic countries around the world, but it's all down to you, our listeners
Mike Parsons: sharing
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and listening and.
Mike Parsons: You know, getting the word out there. So we'd love. And I think it's, I think it's important to mention Mark that they have to use a good username on their podcast, software of choice they competing with. So let's, let's go through some of the classic moonshot audience. Um, number one, beef, Billy, all pretty good Fanny butcher, uh, daggy sick.
And, uh, the, the one that takes perhaps. Pope position, boho, snow pants, all of you and hundreds of others have reviewed and rated the show. Get in there, get into your app, give us some stars, leave a comment. It's so powerful because all the little algorithms love, love that kind of stuff, because they're going to show and present and share out.
Great podcast. Um, thanks to you, our listeners with more and more people, if you give us a rating or if you, so with that said, Mark, did you think we leveraged the good vibes? Are we ready to swing on the other side, on the darker side we did.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Um, unfortunately now I'm positively enthused by the fact that number
Mike Parsons: 24 in
Mark Pearson-Freeland: the globe, I'm going to have to take that smile off my face as we delve into the second part.
So, um, There's lots and lots of great lessons and thoughts that Elon's already shared with us, um, with regards to liking what you're doing and really striving for the best people and making a big difference in humanity. But the truth is, um, all of us come up against challenges. All of us come up against, um, things that we might consider speed bumps and so on.
And it doesn't be only restricted to us. It also happens to figureheads like Elon Musk. So in the next clip we've got is Elan, um, telling us about how he himself has overcome the critics and he himself is describing how he can actually learn from listening to critics
Mike Parsons: or, or,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you know, ignoring those, those challenges and really striving to continue improving himself and his work.
People who've
Elon Musk: been in the rocketry business for decades.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Yeah. Who
Elon Musk: say about you that you don't know what you don't know? Well, I suppose that's true of anyone. How can anyone know what they don't know? But when the critics say you can't do this, your answer to them is we've done it. You know, there are American heroes who don't like this idea.
Mike Parsons: Neil Armstrong gene Cernan have
Elon Musk: both testified against commercial space flight in the way that you're developing. And I wonder what you think of that. I was very sad to see that because those guys are, yeah, those guys are heroes of mine, so it's really tough,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you know, I wish they would come and visit
Elon Musk: and see the hardware that we're doing.
And then I think that would change their mind. They inspired you to do this, didn't they? Yes. And to see them
Mike Parsons: casting stones in your direction.
Elon Musk: It's difficult. Did you expect them to cheer you on? So they hoped that they would,
Mike Parsons: what are you trying to prove
Elon Musk: to them? What I'm trying to do is to make a significant difference in, in space flight and, and help make space flight accessible to almost anyone. And I would go for as much support in that direction.
As we as refinished it.
Mike Parsons: Hmm, that has got to be, I mean, criticism from one thing that's tough, but the world's heroes of space travel criticizing you, your own childhood heroes criticizing you personally. That is pretty rough stuff. Mark.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Talk about resilience. You know, he's creating a private funded.
Astronauts and space program, because he was inspired by Neil Armstrong and, and a host of other astronauts, but they themselves pushing against
Mike Parsons: him.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I mean, talk about a kind of soul crushing moment. Can you imagine what that would
Mike Parsons: feel like? Well, imagine a, in a different. Uh, field, but the, the same situation occurring.
Imagine a young musician coming out and playing live at a concert and they're musical heroes. I dunno, you know, you to the rolling stones, whoever, actually not only didn't like what they were doing, but said so publicly. It's, it's a great
Mark Pearson-Freeland: clip for me to him because he's really focusing on this idea of
Mike Parsons: don't
Mark Pearson-Freeland: prove your, your product or your business to anyone other than yourself, you know, listen to your users, but don't get distracted by, um, this pedestal, you know, Elon probably went into the, the space X space, uh, with an idea that he was.
You know, be supported by everyone around the
Mike Parsons: world, but, but, but that's why it kind of, those accolades cannot be your fuel. They can't, they cannot be your starting point. Your external recognition can never be your starting point, work hard and solve a problem for your customers. And that will give you the capacity to overcome those critics.
Even when they heal childhood here, as, I mean that footage, if you actually go into YouTube and see that footage of him, you can see Ilan. Who's a pretty, he's not wildly emotional kind of a guy, but you can really see on this one. It really, but what's really critical is he went back to his assumptions. He kept testing.
He kept learning. He kept staying the course. He was obviously surrounded by the right people. He obviously likes what he, what he does and. Really reminded himself of why he was doing this. And because he had done those things, he was able to overcome such criticism. And I think the learning for us here is just imagine if we were to receive such criticism.
So publicly from our heroes in our line of work, Imagine how hard it would be to receive humiliating and heartbreaking. I mean the word, I mean, you just cannot believe that that the, if you, if you just personalize this for a moment and put yourself in Elon's shoes, that your childhood heroes didn't only.
Uh, dislike what you're up to. They actually were criticizing you in public. I mean,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: casting it, um, towards myself, although maybe my childhood heroes haven't necessarily criticized me yet. I suppose this
receiving criticism or feedback is, is can sometimes be very, very challenging. And what I like about that, that little snippet of a clip from Elon. And like you say, he gets very emotional. Um, and it's quite revealing as a, as a clip when you, when you watch it as
Mike Parsons: well.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And you can hear the emotion coming through in his voice, in that clip.
He doesn't give up. He hasn't quit the, uh, the space X race, how's he,
Mike Parsons: you know, he, he's still fighting the fight.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: He didn't hang up and say, okay, well, fair enough. If they don't like it, I'm out. It's a very,
Mike Parsons: very empowering
Mark Pearson-Freeland: clip to, to hear because it inspires me if Elan can put up with these huge names in history.
Putting a fight up against him and he can still come out and be inspired and inspire
Mike Parsons: change within the space.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: That's that's goosebumps territory.
Mike Parsons: It re it really, really is. And, um, it shows you, I mean, in the previous show, we talked about the moment where, uh, he wrote his last check and he gave half the TOSA, half to space X, both were on the verge of bankruptcy.
He then. Put his money into the companies and he had no money left. So it's not the first time this criticism is not the first time it's come right into the moment where the stakes couldn't be higher and he has overcome. So this is what makes learning from him so important. Because if you start to begin to understand the scale of his impact, multiple companies, multiple billion dollar successes, but most importantly, he has gone to the Valley of darkness, not just once or twice, but several times.
And he's still. On the way up. And that's why Ilan is so important. Mark. That's why our first ever show 81 shows ago was on him and we'll continue to return to him. But is this not only the good times that we can appreciate from him? It's his capacity to get through the hard times. I mean, how good is Ilan?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: So good. So good. Just keeps on giving doesn't it. And this, uh, this next clip that we've got again, a little snippet into Elan's ways of dealing with those hard times
Mike Parsons: is,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you know, taking on board, the criticism that he's received from Neil Armstrong and other astronauts. Something that again is, is a recommendation and a, and a moment of inspiration
Mike Parsons: from Elan.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: He's telling us to actually embrace that bit of feedback, embrace those points of criticism from people around you, and actually in order to keep on improving your business or your product and idea, and actually yourself go out and chase criticisms. So the next clip we're going to listen to now
Mike Parsons: is Ilan.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Encouraging us to guard and seek criticism to keep on improving constantly
Elon Musk: seek criticism. Yeah. Uh, a a, well, a well thought out critique of whatever you're doing is as valuable as gold. Mmm. And you should seek that from. Everyone you can, but particularly your friends, um, usually your friends know what's wrong, but they don't want to tell you cause they don't want to hurt you.
Um, so yeah, so I would encourage my friends. So I'm not going to tell him what I think is wrong with this product. It doesn't mean your friends are right. Uh, but very often they are. Right. Um, and you at least want to listen very carefully to what they say and to everyone, if you're looking for basically, you should take the approach that, that you were wrong.
Um, you know, that, that, that you're, the entrepreneur are wrong. Your goal is to be less wrong.
Mike Parsons: It's so counter intuitive to embrace criticism. Our natural genetic disposition is fights. Oh flight. And so it's not very comfortable for us to say, yeah. Oh great. You don't like the product. Oh, you hate the service.
You don't think it's worth it. Oh, fantastic. Tell me more about that. Like, we can't help, but like, you don't know what you're talking about. That doesn't sound right. Or just rejecting even anyone who might appear to be about to give you criticism whilst it is a little bit of a contradiction, this idea of seeking it out.
If we can become open. What's so fascinating. What we can learn from Ian. He's saying that this criticism is worth gold, because if we're able to hear it, to understand it and digest it, maybe it inspires us to improve what we're doing. Maybe it forces us to question what we're doing, but to find no, I'm going to continue on the course because maybe they're wrong.
Maybe they don't see the whole picture, but the most important thing is to genuinely hear that criticism and use it for the best. Not many people like this. It's a little bit of an uncomfortable thought. Isn't it, man.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: It's super uncomfortable. You know, you're right. If, if, if we are designed to fight or flight, we genuinely look for things in our lives that are pleasant.
We like doing things that we enjoy. We love receiving, or at least myself, I love receiving positive. Uh, uh, acclamations and positive feedback inspires me to go out and work hard because I enjoy seeing my, um, Impact that I'm having on, on a project or a product. And actually what Elan's saying is that's cool, but make sure you.
Always push against your assumptions, push against and figure out what other critiques you might have. And, and, you know, your friends as an honest source of feedback, much like the users, as a, as he mentioned in our second clip of the
Mike Parsons: show,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: once you've gathered those points of feedback, it's
Mike Parsons: it can only help you.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: You know, get better. And I love the idea of, again, Ilan being this huge figurehead
Mike Parsons: pop culture
Mark Pearson-Freeland: business, as well as, uh, you know, a cultural billionaire, he still looking to others to
Mike Parsons: tell him what's wrong.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: It feels very, uh, it resonates strongly with
Mike Parsons: it. So I imagine that, uh, you and I were coaching all, Alison is they're about to receive some criticism.
How, uh, what advice do we have for them to make the most of the criticism? Ha how do you seek out and hear the criticism? What advice do you have for our listeners?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I think for me, the open. Be open to hearing, uh, what those criticisms can be, be receptive. So it's again, very, very easy to be the fight or flight put up, um, you know, barriers, blockers and put up the opinion of our so, and so doesn't know what they're talking about.
They don't know the thing. They don't know the big picture only. I know. And that's again,
Mike Parsons: I've done it. You know,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I've got a pretty good time. Yes.
Mike Parsons: But if I never seen or even give a criticism
Mark Pearson-Freeland: or feedback, I think be the receiver being open and willing to accept it, not to be where it starts. Right.
Mike Parsons: It does.
And I think that if you have the mindset where it's very much a growth mindset, which is number one, the criticism is not all of you, the individual, even if it is of. Your behaviors or what you did in the past. It's only a critique of the action, not of the individual intrinsically. And then secondly, if you can depersonalize it, the next thing you can do is have a mindset of fantastic.
This is an opportunity. To learn to grow. This is a growth opportunity. Not, it's not a shame. It's something that we shouldn't be embarrassed about. If you can turn your mental mindset to fantastic bad news, I'm ready to grow this. Isn't a personal attack. This is just of a situation or something I did. How awesome I'm going to be a better person after I digest this, let's go.
So
Mike Parsons: good. Do you think, do you think they're ready? Do you think, do you think thousands of listens bring on the criticism?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Isn't it, it's a real,
Mike Parsons: real
Mark Pearson-Freeland: challenge, but I think that's two very quick little tips that I think that's exactly right. And if we can,
Mike Parsons: um, you know, take
Mark Pearson-Freeland: lessons again from,
Mike Parsons: from Ilan,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you know, that's something that has helped him. Go out some of the biggest businesses, uh, humanity let alone, you know, just recent history, um,
Mike Parsons: if he can do it.
So can we, yeah, I think that's, I think that's really true and he's, he's been quite explicit in both how we can do with the good times and the bad. And I think what I want to do now is. Frame this last learning from him, which is all about relating to what Michael Jordan said. We choose. If you're prepared to do the hard work, there's such a bounty, uh, on the other side at the end of the rainbow.
Um, and. The real question is whether you're prepared to do the hard work. That's what Michael Jordan would say. Do the hard work. Be the first training, be the last to leave. And throughout this process, we're entering counter hardship. Serina talked about it. Joe talked about it and here we have Ilan talking about it too.
So if you want to reach the promised land. According to Elon Musk. It's all about one thing. So let's have a listen to him now for the last group talking about having a high pain threshold, have
Mark Pearson-Freeland: a
Elon Musk: high pain threshold. That's um, there's a friend of mine. Who's got a good saying, which is that Sonya company is like eating glass and staring into the abyss.
Okay. That's um, that's generally what happens because. Um, when you first started company, this lots of optimism and things and things are great. And then so happiness at first is high. Then you encounter all sorts of issues and happiness will steadily decline. And then you'll go through a whole world of hurt.
And then eventually you'll if you succeed and in most cases you will not succeed. Um, and Tesla almost didn't succeed, came very close to failure. Then, if you succeed, then after a long time, you're finally getting back to happiness.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: It's so reassuring,
Mike Parsons: like
Mark Pearson-Freeland: you said, at the beginning of the show, Tesla as a business is now going up against some of the oldest manufacturers of cars in the
Mike Parsons: world.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And he's saying here pretty explicitly blood there's a time when it nearly didn't work. But what we did was we carried on going and gradually he's got through that
Mike Parsons: Valley of darkness
Mark Pearson-Freeland: that we've spoken about on the show
Mike Parsons: before.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And there's light at the end of that tunnel. You know, we all go through moments where we have to question ourselves at work or in life.
And you know, this idea of celebrating a diversity was something that Joe was talking about on the show last
Mike Parsons: week as well.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And I, I find it quite empowering again, to hear Ilan calling out this idea of it's going to be hard. But just keep going.
Mike Parsons: Just what was the analogy he uses? Starting a company is like eating glass staring into the bit.
I mean, either one of those on their own sounds pretty bad, but that combination is just like, Oh, the dread is
Mark Pearson-Freeland: pretty miserable. But again, at the same time, I think that's a great clips around I'll
Mike Parsons: show you, you know,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: it's this, although it might seem tough and like you're reading gloss. This idea of getting through it.
Uh, it's, it's
Mike Parsons: rewarding, isn't it?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: When we all go through Mike, something that is really, really hard, you know, you and I, if we've got a hard project and occasionally a mouth feel like we're staring into the abyss, once you get through that and you see the final product, how good does that feel?
Mike Parsons: It does. And to compare this, to what we learned in the sports.
Innovative. They all talked about, be prepared to do the hard work and to know that when the pain is coming, when the struggle is coming, when you are in the midst of the Valley of darkness, the key thing is perspective. It's natural. If you're trying to do something worthwhile, hardship is a prerequisite.
It's not an option, but what's really interesting as any of us go to build products, services, business companies, or movement or community, whenever we go out in the world and try and do things. We often run away from hardship, but the mental fortitude to stick to the plan, to stay the course, the resilience deep in your belly to see things through is essential.
And although. Ilan is by no means an athlete. Um, what you can see is how he's thinking is a mirror image of someone like Michael Jordan. In the end, they're prepared to do the hard work. He's a famously hard worker he's prepared to stare the abyss. Right in the eyes, chew on some glass and come out. The other side, he sat there and he wrote the check with his entire personal wealth was totally cleared out and he put the last money into Tesla and space X to help them survive.
He was prepared to go right on the verge. Right on the edge of the abyss, he could sway gently on the edge and he's come back even stronger. And that was exactly what Serina told us as well. It's the capacity go into the Valley and then come out. That's a true champion and an Ilan Mark. Boy, do we have a champion?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And you're so right. That's exactly what Serena was saying. She would look at Elan and say, he's the player. He's the champion.
Mike Parsons: Absolutely. Absolutely. So Mark, there you are out our third study of Ilan and boy did we, did we discover another part of Ilan, his personal resilience, his character, his values, his determination, his capacity to injure.
That was some pretty good stuff. Great.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And this idea of being open minded. Receiving criticism and landing it, improve your work. So good.
Mike Parsons: So I hope this has given you, uh, our listeners a really powerful frame. Um, and you know, if you're looking to learn more about some of Ellen's mental models is critical thinking, first principle thinking, just jump over to moonshots and.io. Dig up our old show on Ilan. You'll find lots of discussion on that, but today we've gone and found that in a fortitude that would have made Joe Rogan, Serena Williams, Michael Jordan, proud.
Are you feeling primed and ready to go to another galaxy, man?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I totally am. I'm strapping in my space boots and I'm ready to fly.
Mike Parsons: Fantastic. Well, that brings us to the end of the show, Mark. Uh, as we sail into the galaxy of. Podcasting. I hope that we've given you our audience. We've given everyone a chance to find their inner Ilan.
I hope everyone is infused with some great purpose focusing on what their users and customers, but they can sure. They surround themselves with the right people. And when critics on the outside throw sticks and stones, they overcome it. Even if the stones really hurt because they are truly on a mission to change the world.
I hope all of our listeners go out and seek out criticism to make their ideas, that products and services. And remember when you face that Valley of darkness, you know, you're doing the right thing. And on the other side, things just get better, Mark. Thank you to you. Thank you to our audience. This has been another Michonne podcast that Surratt.