bob iger
the ride of a lifetime
EPISODE 72
Beginning our 'Media Innovation' series, we are delving into Bob Iger in Episode 72. Join Mike and Mark as they go through Bob's career at Disney, and discover what we can decode about being our best versions.
Robert A. Iger is Executive Chairman of The Walt Disney Company and Chairman of the Board of Directors. During his tenure as CEO, Mr. Iger expanded on Disney’s rich history of unforgettable storytelling with the acquisitions of Pixar (2006), Marvel (2009), Lucasfilm (2012) and 21st Century Fox (2019), as well as the landmark 2016 opening of Disney’s first theme park and resort in Mainland China, Shanghai Disney Resort.
Over his 15 years leading the Company, Mr. Iger built Disney into one of the world’s largest and most admired media and entertainment companies, (buy on Amazon).
SHOW OUTLINE
INTRO
How to gather wisdom - and tough it up - from others, even in the most unusual situations
Working at Disney
LEADERSHIP AT DISNEY AND BEYOND
What Bob thinks makes a valuable leader or employee or colleague
Decency and respect
Core principle of good leadership(positive power that drives you forward)
Optimism
What not to do, and how to fail as a leader. Don’t be arrogant
Don’t let leadership get to your head
TIPS FOR WORK
Even the smallest detail - if well done - contributes a tremendous amount of value to the whole
Strive for perfection
How can you prepare for threats, whilst protecting the present
Have a hand in the future and the present
Enter the market only when you’re ready, even if you’re the most well-known brand. Patience and courage
Netflix and Fox
OUTRO
Be well prepared, and what else has Bob learnt over the years
Nothing beats hard work
TRANSCRIPT
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Mike Parsons: Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It is a super duper episode 72. I'm your cohost Mike Parsons, and as always, I'm joined by Mark Pearson Freeland on what is a sunny and bright Sydney morning. Good morning, Mark.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Good morning, mr Mike. It is a beautiful, Autumnal Sydney morning, isn't it? What a blue sky.
Mike Parsons: It's wonderful. It's almost like the gods are saying, gentlemen, it's time for a new series, a new innovator, a new leader from whom we can learn. Mark, where are we going today?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: It is a good one. I'm excited by this, especially now that I've had a little bit of time at home to catch up on some content. It is none other than mr Bob Iger.
Robert Iger, executive chairman and CEO of the Walt Disney company.
Mike Parsons: Oh my gosh. Can you imagine being the CEO of Disney, like the responsibility that comes with that, and he has done it for 15 years and Mark for the 30 years before that. Where did he work?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Disney. Exactly. He's just one of the
Mike Parsons: most
Mark Pearson-Freeland: kind of ingrained.
Individuals, I suppose, at the business, you know, he lives and breathes it. He is one of the characters. Basically.
Mike Parsons: And I think it's really nice to start our media innovation series with someone like Bob, because you know, right now we're watching and consuming more media than ever. I mean, it's pretty spectacular.
The boom that we're seeing for not only for Disney, but also for Netflix and others, but also because I think Bob is a classic. Man, a classical leader, he would make Peter Drucker, Michael Porter, absolutely proud. And I think the fact that in this day and age, how many people. Do we get to learn from who have I essentially worked at one company their entire 45 year career.
That doesn't happen very often these days.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: You're totally right. I mean, not only on the consumption of content and so on at home, you're quite right. We've all really, really gone deep into the, you know, the depths and catalogs of Netflix, Disney plus and so on, but Bob Iger is just one of those guys that he's done.
At the time. He knows these brands so, so well, you know, he's part of the furniture in the best sort of way. And it's nice to, you know, go through Bob's career, his book, I mean, obviously there's a plethora of audio clips and podcast shows that he's done, and it's just nice hearing him tell his side of the story.
And I'd like to say it was a car six minute, and I love that.
Mike Parsons: And you know what's not to be forgotten. Okay? It's not just he's tenure that makes him special, but we're talking about since he took over what was a struggling Disney at the time he has acquired Marvel, Lucasfilm, hello brackets, star Wars, 20th century Fox, and the big one, let's not forget he could acquire Pixar.
And to think that. If Steve jobs was prepared to let Disney acquire Pixar, can you imagine what that says about what Steve jobs thought of Bob Iger? I mean, this Disney under his tenure has become. Epic. It has become vibrant and thriving, and we've got someone who is at the steering wheel for 15 years and we can learn from Bob Iger how he built a great Disney, how he leded, how he was the best version of himself.
I mean, this is a great privilege as someone who has accomplished so much and we can decode it and learn from them. I mean, I'm pretty fired up now.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Well, me too. I'm totally fired up. You know? Exactly. Like you say, there's so much to learn from him with regards to becoming your best version. I think that's a great terminology because I think Bob is his best version.
He has done so much incredible work in the acquisitions of these mega, mega properties of Pixar. Marvel looks films in 20th century Fox, and it's been great fun, you know, diving into his career and what makes Bob Bob, and there's so many little tips and lessons that we can take away from that and inspire us to do it in our own careers.
Mike Parsons: Yeah. So we've got like an action packed show coming up. We're gonna have a look at what it really takes to be a leader and we're going to get some really new takes. We're going to hear some thoughts from Bob Iger of Disney that we've not heard from other leaders and innovators, and we're also getting, getting some really smart habits and rituals that we can all do.
In our jobs. So there's a ton to learn from him and some really powerful truths and values that he held to be true. And I think that this is a really nice step change from the fabulous women in innovation series, which was very much an uplifting and inspirational set of women. Now I think we're going to move into.
Some different thoughts, very much. Some classic leadership and management skills, some great habits to have, and some real truths about staying the course and working to the very best of your ability. So what an action pack show. But before we get started on our first clip, Mark. If anyone wants to get show notes here, the back catalog of shows, where does everyone go?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: There's a great destination and it is soon going to be as big as Disney plus I know it. It is moonshots.io. We work very hard at keeping. The side up today with all of our latest shows, and we're going through the back catalog, adding transcriptions to all of the shows as well. And you've got show notes up there.
You've got some links to additional sources, so please go and check it out. Let us know what you think. Drop us an email and just interact. You know, we put a lot of love into our, into our little property, and it's always nice to hear from our, our fans when people get in touch.
Mike Parsons: Absolutely. And don't forget if you are listening and you've got your mobile device in your hand, jump into your podcast or give us a rating, give us a review.
I think we're almost at a hundred now across all platforms. So a big thank you to everyone for showing the love. That's exactly how we can spread our story of learning and innovation to more and more people. So we're really grateful for that, but I feel. It is time to get the very wisdom of Bob Iger and so set it all up.
We're actually going to look at how Bob really looked around him and. Really observed and learned. He's a great disciple of listen and learn, and we're going to have a listen to Bob talking about how he gathered wisdom through all these adventures. So to open it up, let's have a listen to Bob AIGA talking about gathering.
Bob Iger: There's, there's so many layers to you that I didn't
Mike Parsons: know about North sea, but you had 20 different jobs at the company and like 14 bosses
Bob Iger: about that. About that. Yeah. A good route
Mike Parsons: along which,
Bob Iger: you know, I learned from all of them. I'm really lucky actually. As I look back and one of the reasons I'm where I am is I had bosses that were, were not only very successful in their own right, but they. They all taught me something, either purposely or just by watching them. And I had great mentors and you know, I, I, they all are responsible for the, for the achievements that I've, that I've made
Mike Parsons: a lot of great wisdom here is traded
Bob Iger: at the
Urinals in, in, in the back.
Mike Parsons: You gleaned some great wisdom as
Bob Iger: well. I thought that
Mike Parsons: the equip that he came
Bob Iger: back with was very quick. Yes. I worked for a man in Roone Arledge who was renowned in ABC sports and then ABC news, and we were standing. Next to one another. Do you do not have a shower? There's
Mike Parsons: room
slight.
Bob Iger: The a slight improvement, but I was standing next to him. In the men's room. For those of you who may not have experienced that, you don't know whether to talk or not. I'm staying next to my boss who I did not get a chance to speak with very much, and he asked, how's it going? And I said, some days I have trouble keeping my head above water.
And he responded like this, get a longer snorkel.
Mike Parsons: And this is all things at the urinal. There's so many ways to go
Mark Pearson-Freeland: here.
Mike Parsons: Therapist.
Bob Iger: He was merely saying, Hey, if it's, you think it's tough, right?
Mike Parsons: That's actually great advice because nobody, you know, at the, at that level, nobody's going to feel sorry for whatever your daily trials and tribute truck tribulations are
Bob Iger: right.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: It's a little bit of an unusual clip. It's a nice, honest, revealing story.
I think what's fun about this and what we can take away from it is Bob's admission
Mike Parsons: that he's
Mark Pearson-Freeland: 14 bosses in those 20 jobs. Every mentor, whether they intentionally go out to teach a lesson or whether it's just something that you listen in and observe and absorb, they're responsible for your success. So you are a part of everything that kind of comes before you.
And what's nice about this and something that I think I'm going to take away from this clip, is how can I help those around me? How can I mentor those to help others achieve their very best? You know, for Bob, this interaction, even though it might be, you know, a little bit rare for him and his boss to rub shoulders, so to speak, you know, it's actually a really good little valuable little tip.
Know, I miss a lot. It's a little bit hard. This longer snorkel, tough it up, but actually that's a bit of advice. It's nice.
Mike Parsons: It is, and what I really took out of this is not everyone is going to sit down and walk you through things, explain things, and teach you the lessons too. You have to be prepared to take a learning, however it may come, and just because someone doesn't spend much time with you or give you deliberate instruction doesn't mean.
You can't learn from them. And I really like this because sometimes we can get a little bummed out when our boss or API's. Don't take the time to share, teach and learn together. But I think what Bob's really teaching us is he was prepared to learn no matter how it came to him. And I think what's powerful about that is he didn't Chine out.
And so, well, he never spends any time with me, so I'm not gonna pay any attention to him. Rather, he just took learnings in whatever shit they came. And I find that very resourceful and quite resilient because I think sometimes we're a bit spoiled and we want it all served up on a plate, but he was prepared to.
Work hard for even small learnings like that, wasn't he?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: That's actually a great observation. Bob could have been telling this story from a, Oh, he never spoke to me. The only time he gave me advice was in the urinal, but actually he didn't. What he's saying is exactly as you say, it comes in many, many different forms.
Sometimes small, sometimes big, sometimes deliberate, sometimes from observation, and. There are opportunities all around us to learn from others as well as situations,
Mike Parsons: particularly when it's not presented in a form that's really packaged for us. I think work a bit harder on our learnings, even if it's maybe even tough to hear or unusual to hear.
If you work through it, you know, you can take a little bit of wisdom from every moment. But I think that what Bob's really setting up for us is already we're starting to see the mindset of a leader, someone who's going to take ownership. If someone's going to be proactive and. We've got a great collection of values that he talks about that were essential, not only to his success for Disney success, and he sets us up.
Now we've got a bunch of really great clips coming where he really starts to get into some of the values that he holds. True. And I think the best place to start is with kind of an unusually, it's almost an obvious. Value. Something that's perhaps said a lot but not often done. And this is talking about how we perceive others regardless of who they are, and having a starting point of decency.
So let's have a listen now to Bob Iger talking. About respect. Hi Bob. First of all, play with an open hand. I love this book and I love the biggest, I love business, but I also love decency and respect and throughout those two themes do dominate. The people show respect and are decent, are winners in this book.
Bob Iger: Well. Thank you. First of all, thank you for reading the book and thanking. Thank you for pointing that out. Yes. I think treating people with respect and being decent goes a long way in terms of a person's success, in terms of a company's success. Companies that value their people, that respect their people.
That are decent are typically successful companies.
Mike Parsons: You seem to treat everybody the same.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I'm not kidding. The
Mike Parsons: employees are treated the same way as Steve jobs is treated the same way as your as ruin art, the great Roone Arledge. It just seems to be a theme of how you treat people.
Bob Iger: Look, I started out at the very bottom, at an entry level position.
How many? $150 a week employee. I work my way up over all these years now as a company, 45 years to, uh, have the opportunity to run this great company. I still remind myself of who I was when I started and, uh, you know, I try not to lose sight of the fact that, um, while my title has changed and I haven't really changed that much as a person, so I've, I feel it's important to have empathy and to relate to other people who are in similar positions that I was in along the way.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Great leader ship tip. Then. You know, no matter what direction and things that Bob has been up to, you know, he started as a $150 a week employee, and you know, now he's a significant powerhouse in the industry and in global CEO sector. Don't lose sight of who you are. I think that's a great line and it's something that you probably wouldn't always hear from.
The CEOs, you know, these people who are running these big, big brands. It's an emotional tip as well as the business.
Mike Parsons: Well, it's so often that we have this sort of vision of the all conquering CEO, this Epic figure of leadership and accomplishment, and. You know, ego can very quickly get out of hand there.
But let's turn this as a little exercise also ourselves. Mark, who can't argue with the idea of be a decent person. Respect the people no matter who they are around you. Oh, okay, so we liked this, but how do we do it? Like how do you try and keep yourself accountable to a value like this? Do you have any.
Little tricks or habits that you do just to keep yourself humble.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Oh yeah. Keep humble. Okay. I'll take you on a little trip down memory lane for a second. I remember when I was growing up, my parents always suggested that you should treat others how you want to be treated, and I think there's a good similarity here with what Bob's telling us.
You know, everybody's equal. Treat others as equals. If you show distancing, respect, that goes a long way. Don't lose sight of who you are. I feel as though for me, my own, you know, direction of treating others, how I myself would like to be treated is a nice reminder. You know, if you're going to get sharp with someone or if you're going to give feedback to a colleague or an employee or, or a friend even, you've got to, again, take a moment to, I guess, breathe and think, okay, well how would I like to receive it?
What would be the practical way for me if somebody was telling me. How would I best take
Mike Parsons: a learning from it? Yes. To take that and build on it. I always in those moments, try and imagine myself as I was their business agent. Oh. They manage her to use a sports and entertainment analogy and. When you do that, like those people have one job and that is to make their athlete or their star as good as they can be.
So it becomes like a question of, okay, perhaps they did something that they could have done better. How can I work with this person? With respect for them. Like we're sort of business partners, like I'm their agent, I'm their mentor. And the reason that this is very powerful because as soon as you take on, I'm their coach as a mindset is it gets you a long way away from just getting into, let's say someone gives you a really poor communication, poor feedback, and maybe makes it personal.
And you want to like fire back with a personal retort to them and sort of get into this kind of hand to hand combat. If you say, no, I'm the coach, that's a great device to stop yourself from getting in the trenches, in duking it out, but rather be decent and be respectful. And I think that's. Something I try and remind myself of when I'm working with peers, colleagues, or clients is always like, okay, if I was this person's coach, what would I say?
What would I do to help and support them to be the best version of themselves? Yeah. I don't always get a ride, but I guess the idea that I'm sharing here is it's a very good frame to start with so that you don't go down the track of, Hey. You didn't do what you said you do, Hey, you're underperforming and getting into things like blame and accusation, but rather like moving away into more positive construct.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Well, leaders lead, don't they? The best leaders try to do exactly as you're saying. They try to make their peers and colleagues the best versions of themselves. And it's kind of like, I guess tending a garden, you know, the more effort and patience you put into it, the more you get out of it. As a strange analogy.
And that's the same with people. You know, if you show them this decency and respect that Bob's, you know, suggesting that we do. And as you say, you act as a coach, a manager, your encouraging them to go and live and performing their best
Mike Parsons: way possible. Suddenly
Mark Pearson-Freeland: the return on investment that you get out of this person is actually very, very high because they are showing that passion.
They're responding in the best possible way.
Mike Parsons: Look, culture is everything. I mean, you look at any winning sports team and you can see and hear and smell the positive culture. You look at a great basketball team, Mike, of recent times when the golden state warriors were winning back to back championships, or if you're watching Netflix and the last dance, if you look at it.
Chicago bulls when they're at their Zenith, everyone is coming together around a mission. Everyone is fighting the fight. Everyone is giving 101% that is culture. culture for me is built around how we. Collaborate, how we interact with each other, which is behaviors. And I dunno, I think decency and respect have to be, but the first values as part of that.
So if you want to feel good when you're amongst your teammates, then for me it starts with decency and respect. And I think that there's sort of another way to turn this. Like if you have a very sort of positive reinforcement model and say, Hey. I'm their mentor, I'm their coach. How would I treat them?
There's another side to this. So look, we're all human, so sometimes we can fall into a bad habit or. A bad response. There's another idea that I've mentioned once on the show ages ago that I found very instructional and it was all around this idea of when someone is off track, when somebody is just in a bad place, let's say it's a colleague or a client, this is really nice thought and it goes like this.
Don't judge people. Because you never know what kind of battle they are fighting. Nice. So let's say someone's a total idiot and it's really disrespectful to you. Just take a breath. You have no idea, particularly people you don't know very well. You might have no idea of what's going on for them.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: And just to build on that as well.
That's exactly it. I myself would. Hope that I will be treated in that way. So if I was to come in and maybe I'd had a bad morning, maybe I just had the worst meeting of my life and
Mike Parsons: I have a momentary lapse
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and I'm a little bit grumpy, maybe. Oh, you know, maybe it's something even more than that. I appreciate it when my colleagues would show me that awareness.
So exactly as you've just said, it's this culture of. Knowing that everybody has a backstory. Almost everybody
Mike Parsons: has a life around them.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Everybody's individual. When you remember that, and when you put an interaction, then you realize, Oh, they aren't just. Behaving like this because they're not very good.
Instead, it's all they're behaving are others because of something that, you know, I can't really touch. I won't judge them on that. I'll encourage and motivate them in perhaps a more constructive way that's over here and ultimately both parties end up the stronger for it. You end up evolving as a team.
You end up, you know, being stronger the next time. Something like
Mike Parsons: that happens. Totally, totally. You start to really see here that, you know, Bob is taking learnings anyway he can. His default starting point is we've both decency and respect and it's really nice to have this as a reminder that he's success starts with these very universal trues and it really starts to frame what you can start to see is his positive mindset, doesn't it?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: It does. It does. Absolutely. And. Building on that. Let's see. The next clip that we got from Bob actually, because that's a nice segue.
Mike Parsons: We are
Mark Pearson-Freeland: exploring this idea of leadership. What Bob believes are really good values in being a leader of people or employee or a colleague, and there's another core principle and element that bulb.
Tells us that helps him drive progress forward, that he believes is one of the core traits that any leader should have in place. And that is optimism,
Mike Parsons: uh, that the great leaders have. I've discovered, uh, optimism. You talk about the, the negative power of pessimism and the positive optimism. I just want to leave us.
I find so many people are pessimistic right now. It's driving me crazy. You have mean remained optimistic, all sorts of turmoil.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Including personal turmoil in
Mike Parsons: the book. Tragedy of the theme parka, a difficulty, difficult relationships with people. As someone who said, you're going to basically, you're never going to advance in Disney and.
Throughout the book you, the theme is optimism. How do people maintain it?
Bob Iger: Well, I think, by the way, optimism is a core principle of good leadership. You know, people just don't want to follow someone as a pessimist. And I remember as a kid seeing world war II movies, you know, and you'd have some. Captain or Lieutenant or officer of some sort saying, okay, we're going over this Hill.
You know, come on fellows. If that guy is a pessimist, who's going to go over the Hill with him? You know? And if you, I think if you equate that to business, it's in many respects, you know, somewhat similar. It's a, it's an interesting world. Changes, so rapid, so profound that it creates a huge amount of anxiety.
In some cases, cynicism. In some cases, people view the world is to stop dystopian in nature. That's actually why I like Disney so much because what do we do? We manufacture fun. You know, we enlightened people. We tell stories that are optimistic, where the future is bright, Goodwill, triumph over evil.
There's value in adventure, the value of love, friendship, family, respecting your elders. I mean, I could go on and on Disney in this world. What a better time to be in this business. And it's actually, I was just met with 325 Disney executives in Florida, in Orlando, and I said to them, another reason to be optimistic, there are many, if you're Disney, is that factor.
Look where we are in the world today.
Mike Parsons: I really liked this because for me, I'm quite an optimistic growth minded person and. I just see it as optimism is an essential life force. You have to wake up in the morning or leaving something could can happen, and I mean Holy smoke right now and opposed to covert world where we've been quarantine and so forth.
More than ever, do we have this choice? Do we want to be victims or do we want to take ownership? Do we want to be negative? Or do we want to be positive? I think this is quite a reminder from somebody who was told, you're never going anywhere in Disney. You'll never be the boss to someone who's had a 15 year tenure as CEO who has smash the records, turned the company from sort of stagnant to a growth engine.
I think this is a very timely reminder on the choice that we have around our mentality.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: You're totally right. This choice of thinking about or approaching problems or opportunities around us is totally up to us as an individual. It depends on me to interpret a problem or an opportunity and respond to it appropriately.
And what I like about this, you know, a bit of advice from Bob and exactly what you've just said, Mike, which is, you know, having an optimistic. Growth mind set is a good trait to have when you, as soon as you wake up, basically. It's a good challenge, you know? How do I try to keep myself on this? Optimistic trackage day is something that I think everybody can sort of be challenged with.
What's your, how do you wake up and feel optimistic? What kind of gets
Mike Parsons: you into that
Mark Pearson-Freeland: right head space, do you think.
Mike Parsons: Well, you know, I heard an Uber driver. He had this ritual that he told me about where every morning he wakes up and he, he's just grateful for a new day. He always thinks to himself every morning, I'm the luckiest guy in the world, and I love this choice to wake up and to say.
Wow. What can happen today? And to me it is, I mean, in terms of the timeliness of this, it's ridiculous because there's all this uncertainty and craziness in the world. We don't control that, but we can control how we think about it, how we respond to it. I love the reminder that I'm getting here, that optimism is a choice and.
Sure you might be optimistic, but you still face great challenge. This takes me straight back to our most recent show with Arianna Huffington. She was a poor go in Greece who said, I want to go to Cambridge, and everyone's like, are you crazy? And do you remember her mom was like, well, let's see how we can do that.
Yeah. And she not only went on to do that, she founded a company she sold for $300 million. That company won a Pulitzer prize. Like, Oh my gosh, there's some optimism. And in fact, if you look at the whole disposition of Melinda and Michelle in the women in innovation series, again, they chose to be optimistic.
So whilst they have different things to teach us from Bob, the thing that brings them together. Is optimism, and that's a choice for me. I don't think we can remind ourselves of this enough, and I think anybody who's listening to this at home under quarantine, I would just say, here is your chance to say, okay, yes, there's some challenges.
But what did I learn? How can I make a positive out of a negative? That's a great
Mark Pearson-Freeland: mindset. It's great. It's a good encouraging reminder
Mike Parsons: for all of us.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I mean, whenever you and I speak regularly on the phone, and actually I do notice. The first call that you and I might have in a day, you do call out the positive.
You do say, what a beautiful day. What a beautiful time to be around. Look at the sky, even though we're isolated or at home. Just look outside and I appreciate that. It's a good reminder to me and
Mike Parsons: what I take from Bob
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and what I take from, you know your calls, Mike, is as soon as we improve our own optimism.
As soon as we change that mindset and start looking on the bright side of life, as multipath say, and much like Uber driver, he's very, very grateful.
Mike Parsons: Every morning
Mark Pearson-Freeland: that starts to rub off on others. You know,
Mike Parsons: Bob is
Mark Pearson-Freeland: saying,
Mike Parsons: be a
Mark Pearson-Freeland: powerful leader by being optimistic. Nobody's going to follow the negative person over the top of a Hill.
Mike Parsons: When you are
Mark Pearson-Freeland: optimistic and when you believe in what you're doing, when you're positive, when you're happy, that's a very, very powerful force that people are attracted
Mike Parsons: toward
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and it gives people confidence and it gives people the empowerment to go and. You know, pass it on. There's a great behavior that I, I've seen in a few different countries around the world, which is pay it forward.
So if I'm buying a coffee, maybe I'll buy two coffees and the person behind me in the queue, we'll get those for free. Just, you know, it's a little bit of a tangent, but actually that's quite an optimistic, playful. How for behavior that actually does make a difference for the person behind me. And I think even leaders that can continue in your work
Mike Parsons: and your career.
So to look at the other side of this, or sort of the, what comes after this, what Bob has another teaching for us. So like, okay, so you're treating people right. You're learning in any situation, you're optimistic and things start going well. Okay? Now on the other side of this is success, and what comes with success is sometimes ego, and he has more learnings.
Pharmacists, it's great. Now. What we've got the chance to do is to look at what happens when your things are going well. You're hitting home runs, you're meeting objectives, ticking boxes, everything's going well. People are recognizing you, acknowledging the success. Bob's got some powerful values and lessons for us around, okay, don't get ahead of yourself, so let's have a listen to Bob AIGA talking about what not to do and how to fail.
As a leader,
Bob Iger: I think leaders fail for a number of reasons. Uh, arrogance is a sure way to create failure. Uh, sometimes in leadership positions, in positions of power, particularly when success ensues, it's easy for people to allow success to go to their heads and to get arrogant. Sometimes they fail because leadership can be an isolating experience.
And in isolation, you lose the ability for whatever reason, uh, to hear differing opinions sometimes with leadership comes a power that intimidates people to even express themselves and honest ways. And I think the last thing with leaders, which probably is a collection of all the things I just said, is it can go to your head.
The old power corrupts, I think is an app. A truly apt statement or concept
Mark Pearson-Freeland: to statement or concept that obviously we see in a lot of Disney movies as well, but it's, you know, born out of a truth. If you let this power or this very, very, you know, self-reflective energy be too much in isolation, you only think about yourself.
You're only thinking about the
Mike Parsons: immediate walls
Mark Pearson-Freeland: around you rather than. Your colleagues and peers or your family even. And what I like about this thought from Bob is when you remove the walls around you, when you aren't entirely isolated and you get the different opinions from others around you, suddenly your not only enriched, but also your having more of an effect on those around your being, that leader.
You're not letting it get to your head. You're not. Being arrogant or directing people in the way that you want to go. You're open to other points of view and you are part of a team, and I like that. I think that's a great kind of a reminder of how to behave
Mike Parsons: as a leader. And you can imagine the temptation when you're working and the world's biggest media company, the temptation to think you've been the CEO for 15 years, you're kicking ass, taking names.
I mean, they launched Disney plus, and in six months I had 50 million subscribers. I mean, a lot of people would be like, yup, that's me. I'm the best. But it is. You're absolutely right. It's a very good reminder. And once again, what you see here is something actually that I saw her in Michelle Obama, and that despite all of her success and being the most powerful couple in the world, she was still prepared to accept her story and to admit to challenges in a very open and Frank way in which many people don't.
And I think Bob is. Actually cut of the same cloth. He's like, easy tiger. Calm it down a little bit. Don't get ahead of yourself. Listen to points of view around you. Maybe those that are different. And it is. You're absolutely right. It's a great reminder, but I want to remind you, Mark and all of our listeners, so we, we are not done with Baba.
We have some Allah really, really good clips to come. How would you describe the next set of clips we've got? How would you describe those, Mark? Cause there's some goodies in there.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Well, a lot of the podcasts and Bob's work so far that we've discussed are all about leaders. It's all about leading people.
And I think that he's the man. If you want to learn how to lead, well, he's a classics guy and these values that he's already told us about decency, respect, optimism, avoiding. Arrogance. These are really, really good tips. What we're now going to explore is something a little bit more akin to day to day work.
How can I as a maybe an employee or a peer or a colleague action some of these tips if I'm not leading one of the most popular businesses or companies in the world?
Mike Parsons: Wait, wait for this March 200,000 employees, right? So let's say you're going to have 200,000 in your team, but there's still some magic, isn't there?
Where should we start? Mark.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I'm going to start with Bob's focus on this small detail. You know, it's something that we all strive towards, but no matter what it is, no matter what you do, even the smallest detail that you are in control of,
Mike Parsons: as long as you've done it well,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: it contributes a tremendous amount to the value of the project as a whole.
Bob Iger: First of all. There's a Japanese word, which he didn't teach me. And I discovered in a documentary about a sushi chef in Tokyo called , which is the relentless pursuit of perfection.
Mike Parsons: Uh,
Bob Iger: I, I've never worked with anyone or seen anyone up close. That embodied that. Then Steve jobs, he believes that perfection mostly in the product that they created had incredible value and that was a core value to Apple.
As a, for instance, um, he had talked about guts and the ability to take chances. Phenomenal. Yeah. Phenomenal. And the, um, perseverance often required, particularly in the face of tremendous pessimism. Yeah. Uh, he was quite something there.
Mike Parsons: He, um.
Bob Iger: You know, he also had an incredible designers eye, and I've worked with people before who have taste, but he could hone in on the most minute detail and understand that even the smallest detail, if well done, contributes a tremendous amount of value to the
Mike Parsons: whole.
To me, the idea here is that if you're are truly doing something. Which you care about and you're proud of your work, then you should strive for perfection. And it's really a question of being proud not only of your work, but of yourself. You want to be able to stand behind your work. Maybe even greater yet is something that I've spoken about a fair bit, which is what is your legacy?
Right? And I think that every day we have a chance to. Strive for perfection. One of the things I do, Mark, is I have Grammarly and I use that grammar checking too in order to make sure all forms of my written communication from email to documents to white papers to case studies, to master classes. You name it, everything goes through Grammarly so that my communication is as good as it can be.
I really liked this idea of holding yourself to a high standard. So my question for you, Mark, is when you are striving for perfection. What's something you do to raise the bar?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Good tip. You know, Grammarly is a fantastic add on to your browser and you know, actually, I must admit, I also use it too, and it's a great value add for me.
I think it's also possible to strive for perfection by working with others. So I like to collaborate. I like to co-create. And something for me before getting started on a project, whether it's an email or a presentation or a new proposition of some kind or a product, I like to really, really understand as much detail as possible.
I like to sit with colleagues and peers and really get into the detail of, okay, well, what is it? Why does it matter? What's the data that proves that this could be valuable? Because I believe that perfection as an idea has to be built on solid foundations. Obviously the world is a little bit subjective as we know from our own work in the past, but for me, I strive for it by collaborating.
I might go away and create something and I might think, yeah, this is it. I've cracked it. But actually only, you know, similar to what Bob was telling us a minute ago about letting things get, you're only when I share it with somebody else, do I know is that the quality checker, because I might be so far beyond the line.
Thinking that it's right that I only, when working with somebody else and describing it to somebody else, do I realize, Oh no, it doesn't work. So I think for me, getting perfection is if I can get another person to sort of agree with my point, my
Mike Parsons: mindset, I cannot tell you how much I depend upon others.
Giving me feedback, contributing to ideas. Well, in the end, make my ideas better. Exactly. So every time I've shared an idea, it just comes back better. Right. It just comes back better. And I think a lot of people feel that they can't share something till it's perfect. Or they are scared, and this always blows me away that someone's going to steal their idea.
I think the thing is that if you have a disposition, ideas get better and look, let's be honest, in our work, we know you can have the idea to do a podcast on learning from innovators, and that may or may not be a good idea, but the real truth that we have learned time and time again in this show. Ideas are 1% execution is 99% because it takes courage, resilience, disciplines, stamina.
You've got to stay the course. So for me, perfection is just share it and work on it together. I couldn't, I agree more.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: You're totally right. Everybody's got good ideas. Everybody thinks so. They've got the next big. Unicorn, but actually it's all about, like you say, the execution and a lot of that requires more than one person.
A lot of it requires a touchstone, you know, to tell whether it's gold or not when you're sharing those ideas with others. That's when you can understand whether it's a
Mike Parsons: Goa and you get different perspectives and different perspectives make better ideas. And I can tell you what Bob has got some thoughts here because if you're thinking about ideas and going for perfection, never has there been a greater challenge than to take it.
Company was such history in the past to think about the future, and we've actually got some really great learnings now on how Bob. Really had this mental model on how to actually innovate. And he's got some great wisdom for us. So let's have a listen now to Baba AIGA talking about having one hand in the present and one hand in the future.
Bob Iger: Well, as you can imagine, when you, when you manage a company that is as complex as this, in so many businesses, there's. Um, an interesting challenge to manage for today and manage for tomorrow. I talk about it in terms of using your hands. You have to have one hand in the future in one hand, in the present.
If you have two in one place, then you fail. If you have two in the future, then you're not managing your business day to day, and that's a big problem operationally. And if you're just managing today, then you're going to miss out on opportunities. Or you're going to completely ignore, could see significant threats and not prepare yourself for that.
So this notion of protecting the present is something that I talk about a lot at the company. David Putnam, sir David Putnam gave a speech in the UK a couple of weeks ago, and he said, protectionism is much more digestible than innovation, which I thought was very well put. So as the CEO of the company, I feel that it is my role to make sure everybody's got a hand in the future and the hand in the present, and that we are.
Mindful of the value of the president is delivering, but not so overly protective of it that we're ignoring. You know, a world that is changing right before our
Mike Parsons: eyes.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: This is a good thought provoking clip because it's telling us you've got to have hands in both time periods. You've got to think about your business.
Now you've got to protect the present, but you can't not plan for the future. You've got to have a hand and an eye looking towards the horizon. But what I like about this is actually, again, it's tied into all of the other clips that we've been talking about so far, because only by being a valuable and trustworthy leader could he inspire the business too?
Think about both time spaces.
Mike Parsons: Look man, that's the only way he could get the team to entertain the idea of what he called. I'm more on digestible idea of being disruptive, doing things in the future. Cause what he said is like being in the past is very comfortable, right? Just keeping the things that you do today going, that's a very comfortable disposition.
What he was suggesting is how uncomfortable we get when we think about. Change. When we think about doing something differently and you're absolutely right, you don't have permission to lead people into the future if they don't feel the respect, the common cause, the fact that they're cared for, the fact that they're safe.
These are themes that we've heard a lot of. But what's really fascinating here is this is Bob IGAs version of a mentor model, and somebody else who is very good on mental models was Elon Musk, and he is all about the sort of very quantitative look into the future and inevitability. Even if it seems ridiculous today, he can think about it in the future.
What's interesting is Bob has a more of a people based. Mental model, which is, Hey guys, we need to be half in today, half into tomorrow. And what I like is these are two different incredibly successful people who've led companies into the future in very different ways. I think that's really interesting to see that there were two different paths to creating the future.
What do you think, Matt?
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Yeah, I think that's a great observation. You know, Bob's. Admission of protectionism. It is, like you say, very, very easy to focus on the past. It's very, very easy to only think about the presence because it's right here right now, and only when, I think what's a good demonstration of a leadership behavior is when you're not only thinking about right here right now, but thinking about the future, thinking about, well, the only way you're going to be a, where's the company going to be?
Where are your peers and colleagues. I mean, I must admit, it does intimidate me. The idea of running a company that has so many different properties, Pixar, 20th century Fox, you know, Marvel to protect each of those walls. So driving it forward and being an operative is an incredible achievement. The bulb and, and obviously his team, he's not shy about admitting that he's surrounded by great people.
Again, another fantastic leadership quality.
Mike Parsons: This next clip though, is really crazy because it builds on this Mark because what it does is it actually shows us how he's actually done this, how he's actually looked into the future, and he's done it. And again, this is where you see the difference between him and Ilan.
I think Ilan doesn't have much patience and just goes incredibly quick breaks a few things along the way. So this next clip is really instructional because really frames how. They built Disney plus, and rather than rushing, like everyone in the business community was imploring them to quickly launch something to compete with Netflix.
They took their time and they showed patients and carried. So let's have a listen to Bob AIGA talking about doing this. In the right way.
Bob Iger: We did extremely well licensing our content and Netflix. We're launching this product because we are ready to launch it. We wouldn't have been ready to launch it two, three years ago.
We wouldn't have even been ready to talk about it. It takes technology. It takes content. It takes the talent to make the content. It takes a marketplace. You could argue that what Netflix has done is actually been good for us because they've seeded the marketplace. Too robust over the top, uh, content distribution and presentation.
And so I like launching when we are launching and believe that it's a great time for us. And the Fox acquisition acquisition has a lot to do with it. Something interesting, David, that I've observed, and I don't think I've said it publicly, but. We announced that we were doing this in 2017
Mike Parsons: right,
Bob Iger: so just summer of less than two years ago, it was actually June of 17 that we decided to do it, and that led to the purchase of bam tech and then the opportunity to buy Fox a first came up later that year.
In fact, just a few months after the board approved us buying the majority share of BAMTech, which was done for one reason to go into the direct to consumer business. Rupert and I sat down and talked about a transaction. We would not have done that transaction. Had we not decided to go in this direction because if we hadn't, we would have been looking at that business and through a traditional lens, Oh, we're buying TV channels, we're buying more movie making capability, et cetera, and so on.
Mike Parsons: Um,
Bob Iger: but. By the time the, uh, acquisition opportunity came up and we knew we were going in this space, we evaluated what we were buying through this new lens of, wow, what could national geographic mean to us? What could be, what could it mean to us being in the direct to consumer space in India? What could it mean having access to their library?
Not to monetize it through tradition, traditional means, but to do it through this. Bam. I mean, the light bulb went off 30 years of the Simpsons. Well. Okay, that's fantastic. That's kidding. But that's a, that's a perfect example of what I'm, or what I'm talking about, or example, it just maybe proves the point again, we, which may be speaks to why people don't acquire companies too, because you try to measure what you're acquiring in a traditional sense.
Our decision to buy Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm was made because we believed. That great storytelling would stand the test of time and no matter how much the marketplace was disrupted, whether it was cable and satellite, movie theaters, traditional television, you name it, a great story. Well told, real story.
Well-told was going to succeed, meaning as a, as a, um, you know, an investment or as a, as a financial proposition, no matter what.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: That's a loaded clip. That is full of great, great stuff that we can unpack from a lot of time. What immediately jumps out of me though, is this demonstration that Bob isn't just the leader.
He's not just this incredible, you know, guy who inspires behavior within the business. He is an innovator. These are values and behaviors of an innovator. He's not jumping into decisions too quickly.
Mike Parsons: He
Mark Pearson-Freeland: isn't measuring things that he can't measure. He's not approaching things in a traditional lens. He's thinking about things actually as a much bigger hole.
He's thinking of the opportunity that it might present down the line. He knows the value of, for example, as he calls out storytelling, and he sees it as a great value to that and wants to build on it. It's a great clip of demonstrating what a he is like as this innovation
Mike Parsons: powerhouse. And I think that to take this further, like how we can have a little bulb ourselves, is he's very clear on his beliefs and his mental models.
And even though every arm was saying, hurry up, launch your own Netflix challenger, he's like. I have clarity of thought. I know what I think. I know what I believe, and I will do it my way. And I love the courage that he has because he has the right mental model. And let me break that down because he was so clear in his own mind about when it would be right for Disney that he said to everybody, no, we're not ready.
And he had the courage to stand out as Netflix continued to succeed. And what we've seen is so beauty with the benefit of hindsight here, they've launched, they have over 50 million subscribers for Disney plus, and actually the content offering is. Poultry compared to Netflix. Yet he had the courage to stand behind his thoughts and his beliefs.
So if we don't have thoughts and beliefs, then we can't be courageous like he was. We can't be tough like he was. We can be affected by those around us who don't necessarily have our interests. They have their own interests. I think this is a celebration of. No, your thoughts and know your values and stay on track.
I mean, even Jeff Bezos says, be stubborn on your vision, but flexible on how you get there. What I see here is Bob is saying no, your thoughts know your values and stick to them even when everybody's shouting to go different directions.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: You got it. That's it. Again, all these different clips that we've talked about today, they are leading to this, you know, all these behaviors and so on.
Him acting as an innovator, him acting as this guy who's applying these different mental models to how he's approaching business. He's got that confidence and awareness to say, no, no, we're not ready yet. It's okay. I know the bigger picture and it's a good behavior. It's inspiring from a day to day career perspective to challenge myself at not jumping to a decision, you know, think about the bigger picture.
What else is going on? How do I see things playing out and what are my colleagues and peers and partners think, you know,
Mike Parsons: apply
Mark Pearson-Freeland: and awareness to a subjective opinion and actually get in and sense jacket.
Mike Parsons: That's the thing, like what do you sense check it against is your values and your mental models, right?
If you have a look at my strong belief that products are best built when you test and learn with the end user continuously over time. So whenever someone comes to me and says, here's a great idea, I cannot tell you Mark how many times I go to events or meet people and they say, Hey, I've got this idea for an app.
And my first question is, okay, that sounds good. How many people have you tested this with? So I'm at a startup and technology event, and somebody I know introduces me, someone said, you should speak to my , he can help you. And this person says, okay, successful entrepreneur, Hey, I've got this idea for a killer app.
Okay? And he said, but I'm a bit stuck. and he tells me the story of the service. And I was like. How many people have you tested this with? And he said, well, myself and a few people that have have built the beta version of the app, they've all tested it. And I was like, okay, but this is a product for consumers.
How many consumers have you tested it with? He says, we haven't. And I said, we don't need to have a meeting. We don't need to have a call. You don't need to present the app to me. You just need to go test with users. Now. My point in this is more that because I am so firm in this mental model that testing with users is the source of innovation that if someone hasn't done it, I don't need to spend an hour on a call where they basically try and pitch me the app.
I don't need that. And it was quite deflationary because he obviously had been successful in business by doing deals and I'd like, we don't need to have a meeting. You just need to go and test with users. And it was so disruptive to him. But I could be from, and my thing, you don't need my time. You need to go test with users, go do that and then come back and we can chat.
Because it's only then that I can really give you some meaningful insight cause I can see what the user's response was. And I think that what we can do here. From Bob's inspiration is ask ourselves, what do we believe and what do we know to be true? Because when we have a firm sense of those, when we write those things down, when we can write a blog post about them, when we can make a video about them, when we can share those in a meeting with great clarity.
That is when we can chart our success. And if you are flip-flopping left and right, depending on what Joe blog says today and what Joe blog says tomorrow, that tells me you don't know what you believe and you don't know what you think. And I think what we are seeing thank you to Bob is somebody who knows how they want to work with people, but he also has very clear mental models and how he wants he's business.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: To succeed and borrowing from our friends. Simon Sineck. Bob knows the brand of Disney. He knows the values and the why behind the business. It's a great mental model where he can, you know, similar to yourself, Mike, your wife is probably around, you know, user input in, in that particular example, it's holding.
The chap approaching you at a conference offering a new product and you're responsive, no. Go and test it with users. That's holding true to the value. And I think what Bob showing us here as well is, okay, well, we're not going to rush in and create a substandard product that goes up against Netflix, for example.
Let's do it. Right. Because we are
Mike Parsons: who are all about getting the story correct. Now, this idea of doing it right? Yeah. Now we're going to do a big pivot as we come actually to the final clip of the show. We've got the mental models, we've got how to work with others to be optimistic, to be humble, to be respectful, but you know, I think we may have left the best last market.
I think this last and final clip. Really brings home a truth that we have heard timeless times, whether directly from innovators about this idea of hard work or whether what we've gone on to discover is that nobody is an overnight success. It's about discipline. It's about hard work and staying the course even in the face of great adversity.
So I am so pleased. Two share with you now. This last and final clip from Bob Iger if Disney about HOD.
Bob Iger: Um, I'd say a few things that I've learned and what served me well, first of all, nothing beats good, hard, hard work. I know that sounds really trite, but I came to my adult life or my, my career with a modest intellect, but a tremendous work ethic, and that served me extremely well.
With that came a real desire to. Um, to do well, but I knew in order to do that, I had to be well prepared to. So I'm a, I'm a student. I learned a lot to this day. I try not to go into anything cold. I try to learn it. Also, by the way, one of the most helpful things in terms of making decisions is accumulating knowledge, is making a decision, not, uh, from, by shooting from the hip, not by winging it, but by learning enough about something to either form a knowledgeable opinion.
Or to make a decision based on knowledge that's accumulated. And I think along the way more than anything else, that has probably contributed to where I am today.
Mike Parsons: Hmm. A
Mark Pearson-Freeland: good secret to success, I suppose, is a healthy reminder. It's another great tip from Bob. Be prepared, be disciplined. Work hard. I've heard a lot from Bob and you know everything I've read about book.
He goes into his meetings, well-informed. He researches who he's going
Mike Parsons: to meet. He
Mark Pearson-Freeland: knows what he's going to talk about, and as he says, he shoots from the hip. He doesn't wing anything. Again, going back to your previous point, Mike, having input from users, you don't just make it up and be subjective. You go in with a well informed opinion from.
Your colleagues, your team, your users of the end product. In this case, you're going in. From Bob's perspective with knowledge, he wants to be.
Mike Parsons: The
Mark Pearson-Freeland: best version of himself so that he can be the most valuable to those around him, to the business.
Mike Parsons: So true. A great
Mark Pearson-Freeland: ending,
Mike Parsons: isn't it? It is. Because I mean, this idea of hard work and something that was revealed in the clip, which is this always learning, these are such crucial things and when they go together, if you work hard and you're always learning, if you think about the eventual compounding effect means that you're just going to be so much better.
Each day then you were the day before because you took a learning, you built on it took another learning and built on that and that and that. And I think that what this shows us for all of the things around behavior and mental models, some of those might come naturally to us. Some of those might be a little harder, but one of the things that we know to be true from studying 72 entrepreneurs, innovators, creators, and builders, is that nobody.
Get greatness by chance. There is this deliberate hard work there and that starts every day. Is your chance to wake up and say, I am going to work like a beast today. I will produce today. I will deliver today. I will not take it easy. I will go. To the end of my day knowing I worked as hard as I could. I did as much as I could.
And I think that this is such another good reminder cause you might think, Hey, you know, he's a Disney, a tug ended up at the top. It's all good now. He's like no hard work and always learning. I mean, great stuff. Hammer,
Mark Pearson-Freeland: boom. That's great. What a great mantra, and he's coming from a guy who's so impressive.
You know, he is this classics guy. He's done so much for Disney. Well, a better role model to have what a person to inspire us to go and wake up every day, have this optimism, be nice to one another, have respect for one another sense, check ideas and put in the hard work essentially. I think Bob's been a great example of a fantastic
Mike Parsons: innovator for sure.
Absolutely. And what a great way to start our media innovation series. We've got Mark Cuban of broadcast outcome and the Dallas Mavericks, he'll be next. Then we bring in Reed Hastings from Netflix again. What a timely moment to reflect on a company that is booming right now. Not only things to covert, but over the last few years.
These guys have defined industries have stood above and really they eliminate the path for all of us. So, and this is such a nice pivot from all of that wonderful inspiration we got in the last series with our women of innovation. Now we're getting media innovation. It's a bit more cerebral. There's some interesting spectrums here of the ways you think, the ways you behave, and even some fundamental classic trues of hard work.
Marky Mark, this is good stuff.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: Ah, so good. I'm excited.
Mike Parsons: And so our listeners are going to be full of all of this positive energy when they're looking at their keyboard, they've got the positive energy. What should they type in their browser when they think. I want more.
Mark Pearson-Freeland: I want everybody to go and check out a moonshots, don't I?
Oh, but also actually, while you're there, go to your podcast app of choice, Apple podcasts, for example, and leave us a little review. Leave us a few stars if you like what you're hearing, leave us a few comments. It's really valuable to us to hear what you guys think. So please let us know what you think.
Absolutely. So there you have it, everybody. We have come to the end of show 72 a deep dive into the world of Disney and Bob Iger. He's a classics man. He would make Peter Drucker smile. He is doing so many things right. And I hope that all of you, our listeners, good take. Something from the world of Bob Iger take his lessons, his values, his mental models, and you can take them into your work.
We really look forward to having you on our next show. Well, we're going to dive into the world of Mark Cuban, who's quite a character, so we're going to have no problem researching some great clips, thoughts, and inspiration from him. Thanks. Once again, this is the moonshots podcast. That's a wrap.