SIMON SINEK
1 OF 5
START WITH WHY
EPISODE 53
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Start With Why from Simon Sinek
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mike parsons 0:10
Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's Episode 53. I'm your co host Mike Parsons and as always, I'm joined by Mr. Chad Owen. Good evening, Brooklyn,
Chad Owen 0:23
the morning Sydney. I am very excited about this brand new series that we are dropping here on the moonshots podcast and boy, do we have a doozy of a lineup?
mike parsons 0:34
hoo ha I mean, this Chad, this has got to be one of the I can't remember being this excited about starting not only a new series, but just getting into what has to be one of our absolute favourite thinkers, favourite writers, who I'm glad I'm glad we've got all of his books in the office. We've got your back bourbon straight out of the US have a just to accompany this journey but tell tell our audience Chad who is the treat that we have not only for this show but many more. We have listened to you the audience and taken our most popular episode by far we're talking 20 X the popularity of our other episodes and and not doubling down and tripling down but we're Quinn tumbling down on bringing you the insights and knowledge from Simon Sinek and all five of his books one that's not even out yet. So, so for the for the listeners who are really listening, they're probably thinking guys, how can you do a show in a book that hasn't been written? Haha, we have a way to do this. Chad. I am so excited about this because I have it Put right up with the likes of, you know, Stephen Covey who, who wrote Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, I put him right up there with Dale Carnegie, on how to win friends and influence them. Because what Simon Sinek has been able to do is to write in a way that is so relatable, and equally, the content is just as good. The the focus he puts on leadership in such a relatable way has been immense, not only in my personal life, but also in my professional life. And I know you and I are forever using his, you know, circle of y framework. And I think what you and I just are always jamming on and talking about and discussing and challenging ourselves on is how we can be not only better at our work, but just better people through using some of his Simon Sinek is immense. And I'm so excited to be doing this. I mean, tell us Chad, like what effect has his writing had on you?
Chad Owen 3:11
I like Simon because he takes big ideas and boils them down into very simple and concise concepts. And they usually have some kind of a nice visual to go along with them metaphors and analogies and historical examples. And he combines all of those elements together to weave a really not only interesting, but educational in an educational way that makes it very easy to follow his ideas. You know, you compare them to Stephen Covey and Dale Carnegie. I think it's a very apt comparison, because he's got that folksiness of them. Hmm. And you know before before we hit record, we're talking about how he's different from someone like a Jim Collins that wrote Good to Great (purchase on Amazon), and the other that wrote the Five Dysfunctions of a team I can't remember his name. Patrick lencioni Yeah, and their their work is much more kind of in the business speak, you know, corporate world, that's kind of the framework with that they're coming from and Brian, while it's very highly researched and in scientifically backed, especially in the case of Jim, the work that Jim Collins does, I don't want to undermine that because his face findings are extremely robust. But like, you know, the conveyance of the idea is a bit harder to get behind. The exception to that actually is Jim Collins, his latest book, what does he call it's an imprint. It's a small book about turning the flywheel where he condenses, like his previous five books into you know, 60 pages, and I think it does a much better job there listening and he's certainly borrowing from someone like Simon, but I just love how easy it is to pick up ideas from Simon and so we are starting with his first book. Start with y, which group out of a TEDx talk that he gave, I believe, over 10 years ago,
mike parsons 5:05
this right this right so, a lot of our listeners may have come across this video where he actually he talks about how Apple sort of re reinvented the way in which you marketing putting everything around in a different order. And we, Chad, we are going to decode that. We've got some clips from that very famous TED Talk, which is like, you know, 20 zillion billion views and, and all that good stuff. And that was the that was the thing that ignited the Simon Sinek streak, if you will. He's he's just been on fire. I believe it's the third most popular Ted video in history. What the other thing that I love is that Simon has challenged us not just to be smart, not to be just like shrewd and and great thinkers. But I think the emphasis that He has brought his towards that great leadership requires not only great thinking but great feeling too. Don't you find that that's what made him so disruptive in the last 10 years is that he really kind of said guys, let's talk about feelings motivation, how we and I think here's the key bit Chad, how we behave as rather than just how we think. For me, that's what sets him apart.
Chad Owen 6:29
Yeah, he's an interesting combination of like ethnography sociologist, motivational speaker, executive coach, consultant, you know, all of those things combined, I think, can help us not only learn from what he what he has written, but actually begin to unpack and think about some of the mental models he he uses and maybe how he comes up with these frameworks and how he observes what's going on in corporate culture and inside of businesses. This may be a bit dysfunctional or it could be better, he sees good things here and not there. And then learn how he's, you know, combining that, again with these visuals and these historical examples to come up with his own frameworks. Because I think for me, he, he, he has shown and inspired me that if you're a keen observer, and you're really passionate about a particular subject or group of people, you know, you spend enough time with them and observe them, you can begin to learn the same things. So, in Simon's work, he was a consultant and hung out with a lot of leaders. And I think he just thought very carefully about you know, what he was observing. And then he, you know, created a framework, the Golden Circle that explained what he saw happening out there in the in the marketing world.
mike parsons 7:45
Yeah, I think this is such a treat for our listeners. And if if you want to get any information on this series, or you want to go back and check out our old synnex show that we did, which was Really fun. You can go to moonshots.io and you can get everything there. But before we jump into this first clip Chad, for me, I it's really important. We have a bunch of good stuff from CNET coming up. We're going to hear from Simon himself in almost every single clip, we've been very lucky that we've been able to capture him talking about some of the very, very key ideas. And and they they are covering an expansive area, how you work, you know, at the office, how you live life, how he's tests, how his ideas, not only echo in the office, but they are very resonant in the way we live our personal lives, how we can all be great leaders. And I think what's really exciting is we've got some some really, really wonderful insights. We've even found him talking about his own personal why so he'll We'll be able to reflect on that and discuss that is Chad. There's tonnes there's so much. Yeah, I'll
Chad Owen 9:05
let you sneak in like 15 clips into this.
mike parsons 9:09
I'm glad I got up early and just kind of went for it because I just and this was hard to cut it down. But with that being said, we Yeah, we started with about 30.
Exactly, exactly. But I think the the the message here is there is so much to take from Simon's thinking. He's he's set up a bunch of great ideas that can inspire. So I hope everybody listening today can take minimum three things out of this show. Usually I always talk about one. Let's make it three. And Chad, you better get us in there because we're all fired up.
Chad Owen 9:45
All right, so you have to apologise for some of the overly rot motivational music in some of these clips here. Don't Don't kill the messenger. But yeah, I mean, we're gonna dive straight into the core of Simon's A framework called the Golden Circle and what it means to start with why? Why did you go to bed this morning?
Simon Sinek 10:08
What's your purpose? What's your cause? What's your belief?
Why does your company exist?
In the face a bombardment of manipulation and manipulation, manipulation, that that's, that's the marketplace. How do you get your message to stand out? How do you get your message heard? Why should anyone listen to you?
As it turns out, there's a pattern as it turns out all the great and inspiring leaders and organisations in the world whether it's apple or martin Luther king or the Wright brothers, they all think, act and communicate the exact same way. And it's the complete opposite to everyone else. All I did was write it down. I call it the Golden Circle. In the middle is the word why. The centre ring is the word how and the outside Rick is the word one. It's this little idea that distinguishes those with the capacity to inspire versus everyone else. Every single organisation on the planet knows what they do these the products you sell the services you offer. Some know how they do it. When you call it your differentiating value proposition or your USP, it's the things that you think make us special or different or better than your company.
But very, very few people and very, very few organisations can clearly state why they do what they do. And by why I don't mean to make money. That's a result. Why did you go to bed this morning?
Chad Owen 11:39
And why should anyone care?
mike parsons 11:42
Yeah, for me, Chad, like it's Yes, it's inspiration. When you kind of uncover your why or your company's while whatever organisation were referring to Yes, it's inspiration. But I think it's so much more than that. It's it's a window into How to become a great leader. I find thinking about my why or my company's why helps me make better decisions because it becomes the the organising principle by which we can get things done and to know what matters to us and and equally, if I think about the kind of personal life and family life that I want, and why I want that, I mean, it all ties together. I think it's it's inspiration plus, right.
Chad Owen 12:29
Yeah, and he packed a lot of things in into that. And I just want to let the listeners know that we will revisit many of those touch points, we're going to come back to the Golden Circle. We're going to talk about manipulation versus motivation and marketing, but we wanted to play that clip to kind of get the assignments and juices flowing here and get you all excited for the 14 additional clips that we have here on the show.
mike parsons 12:55
Okay, so you've laid down the gauntlet, we should Just jump straight in and build on this. And what we're actually going to do is we're going to hear Simon now talking about how Apple uses their why. And the reason this matters so much is 10 years ago or so, this is where Simon hit gold. This is the thing, the original, the day zero of his thinking, being catapulted into the, into the public arena. And he did this by applying his thinking to Apple. So let's have a listen to Simon Sinek and go right back to where it all began.
Simon Sinek 13:40
If Apple were like everyone else, a marketing message from them might sound like this. We make great computers. They're beautifully designed, simple to use and user friendly. Want to buy one, man and that's how most of us communicate. That's how most marketing is done. That's how most sales And that's how most of us communicate interpersonally we say what we do we say how we're different or how we better and we expect some sort of behaviour a purchase a vote, something like that. Here's our new law firm. We have the best lawyers with the biggest clients we have, you know, we always perform for our clients do business with us. Here's our new car, it gets great gas mileage, it has, you know, leather seats by our car. But it's uninspiring. Here's how Apple actually communicates. Everything we do, we believe in challenging the status quo. We believe in thinking differently. The way we challenge the status quo is by making our products beautifully designed, simple to use and user friendly. We just happen to make great computers. Wanna buy one? Totally different, right? You're ready to buy a computer from me. All I did was reverse the order of the information. What it proves to us is that people don't buy what you do. People buy why you do it. People don't buy what you do they buy why you do it. This explains why every single time person in this room is perfectly comfortable buying a computer from Apple. But we're also perfectly comfortable buying an mp3 player from Apple, or a phone from Apple or a DVR from Apple. But as I said before, Apple's just a computer company. There's nothing that distinguishes them structurally from any of their competitors, their competitors are all equally qualified to make all of these products. In fact, they tried. A few years ago gateway came out with flat screen TVs. They're eminently qualified to make flat screen TVs. They've been making flat screen monitors for years. Nobody bought one.
Chad Owen 15:33
I think what in in the poor sound quality's because this is the OMG TED talk that he gave, I remember exactly where it's from. But yeah, this is before anyone knew who Simon was. There's so many interesting things in this that's like not even around the content, but just how he's looking at a company like Apple would you and I have done here across five episodes, maybe on the podcast, and instead of just taking things at face value. He's willing to go back to first principles, and really try to unpack and understand why a company like Apple has been so successful. And in the end, it's really simple because all he's doing is inverting the typical marketing narrative of, here's, you know, here's what we do. And here's how we do it. And then, you know, buy from us, and he's just like, hey, if we invert that and start with the why we believe in thinking differently, and challenging the status quo. Yes. And everything we do is designed beautifully and user friendly. And we also make great computers Would you like to buy one or we like, you know, we make great iPods and Apple TVs and computers and phones yet, so it's so stupidly simple to me. I wish I had come up with it.
mike parsons 16:48
But like everything in life, Chad brilliance often looks so simple, so elegant and easy. Get the hard work and getting there as well. Todd, look to me, I'm asking myself, why does this matter so much to our listeners? And here's, here's my attempt at explaining that. Apple are along with Nike, the greatest marketing company on the planet right now, Apple are able to be profitable in the computer and smartphone industry to a degree that is far beyond any of their competitive set. People pay more for Apple products. And what Simon Sinek just told us is the reason why, because many years ago, it started with think different. Even before that, we had the famous 1984 ad, which to this day remains and this is really important, the most successful television ad in the history of advertising. It was produced and directed by one of my favourites Ridley Scott. And it was a direct statement about not what they did. Not even really how they did it, but why. And these various campaigns have created a halos so significant that they don't even need to call out think different, everybody still feels that they don't have a 1984 ad running on every Super Bowl anymore. But people still know it and people still feel it. And it's this thinking that is inside of Apple that cynic has caught. And it makes it so powerful when you use this framework, because what we'll show you later on in the show is how you can use it to but before we go deep into how you apply, how you apply this sort of thinking, What's really exciting Chad is in this next clip, you know cynic doubles. Dan says, well, let's pretend let's get out of this marketing world. Let's look in, let's say to a movement that has reshaped American and global culture. And Martin Luther King has to go down as one of the greatest artists in history. And this this next clip is cynic decoding what Martin Luther King was able to do in the change he could create using the same framework as Apple.
Simon Sinek 19:33
How do you explain when things don't go as we assumed or better? How do you explain when others are able to achieve things that seem to defy all of the assumptions? For example, why is Apple so innovative? year after year after year after year, they're more innovative than all their competition. And yet, they're just a computer company. They're just like everyone else. They have the same access to the same talent, the same agencies is the same consultants, the same media, then why is it that they seem to have something different? Why is it that Martin Luther King led the civil rights movement? He wasn't the only man who suffered in a pre civil rights America. And he certainly wasn't the only great orator of the day. Why him? And why is it that the Wright brothers were able to figure out control powered man flight, when there were certainly other teams who were better qualified, better funded?
And they didn't achieve powered man flight, the Wright brothers beat them to it. There's something else at play here.
Why, how what this little idea explains why some organisations and some leaders are able to inspire where others aren't. Let me define the terms really quickly. Every single person, every single organisation on the planet knows what they do 100% some know how they do it. Would you call it your differentiating value proposition? Know your proprietary process or your USP, but very, very few people or organisations know why they do what they do. And by why I don't mean to make a profit. That's a result. It's always a result by why I mean, what's your purpose? What's your cause? What's your belief? Why does your organisation exist? Why do you get out of bed in the morning? And why should anyone care? Well, as a result, the way we think the way we act, the way we communicate is from the outside in it's obvious we go from the clearest thing to the fuzziest thing. But the inspired leaders and the Inspire or inspired organisations, regardless of their size, regardless of their industry, all think, act and communicate from the inside
Chad Owen 21:41
out. Yeah, the the interesting connection that I'm drawing between this clip and the previous is he kind of slipped it in and in the last one, we do business and buy from people who believe what we believe and so to create that connection. He says start with the Why? Because the what's there multiplicities and diverse and innumerable but the y's are so deeply personal and like to the degree that a corporation can be personal right? I think it is. Is there why so think different is super relatable yeah to all of us Apple fanboys in the same way that just do it is for all of the Nike aficionados you got
mike parsons 22:32
it in one slam dunk chat. Oh, and that is exactly it. But what what is really powerful is when you talk about the why it elevates the conversation you don't get stuck in are we making this sort of widget or that sort of widget or do I do I do this thing today or this thing tomorrow when you get into the Why? You can change people's attitudes and beliefs you can create immense impact When you get into the why, because it unlocks motivation. And, you know, when you start to speak to irrefutable truths such as web better together, you know, making a difference helping people realise their potential when you get into these sorts of things. They're like life forces that that power us, they're the things that lift us to the highest of peaks, and they are the things that pull us out of the valley of darkness. In fact, what I'm going to challenge all of our listeners to imagine is that if you really get the why, right, you can not only create a family or a company, I don't know chat on I think you can create a nation.
Chad Owen 23:45
That's some pretty big aspirations. I mean, I I agree with you, in the same way that he links it to the civil rights movement, there's a fundamental injustice, that is the why that drives it and until that in Justice is addressed. That movement still lives on today and in the mini continuing in justices that that is what drives that in many other related movements. And so I think you're up maybe applying it to a nation is not quite of so far fetched of an idea.
mike parsons 24:22
Totally. So, here it is. If you thought this framework from Simon Sinek will help to create maybe a good ad campaign or a civil rights movement, I'm gonna go one up, I'm going to double up I'm going to triple up because I am so excited to share this next clip. This is Simon Sinek talking about how powerful this wave framework is, and he unpacks how perhaps the greatest success, the greatest proof point of this framework is none other than America itself.
Simon Sinek 24:57
People always talk about visions and missions and all of this stuff. And when people ask me like, what example should I look to, like what company should I'm like, here's an organisation with a vision, a cause it was founded with a cause. It's an entrepreneurial venture in America is an experiment. It's an entrepreneurial venture, where a bunch of people got together and decided we needed to start our own country. Because there were certain obstacles that were getting in the way of a vision that we had of a better kind of country, but a kind of company, right? And they stated it right out of the beginning, all men are created equal, endowed with these unalienable rights amongst amongst which include life, liberty, in the pursuit of happiness. And it's not a it's not just a competitive statement, like to be the best to be the most respected. That's not what it was. And I'm amazed how many companies start their visions or missions with those that terribly egocentric language. It was an ideal. And the amazing thing is, is we've been good at it and bad at it in our history, but It's endured for 240 plus years. Because we fundamentally believe that we are at our best when we're pursuing that. But it is an ideal, we will never actually achieve all people are equal, but we will die trying. And that's the point. And it's the same for a company, which is True Vision inside a company is something that has nothing to do with your product. It is an ideal to which you will attempt to build an advance that ideal through your company with your product. You'll never achieve the ideal but you'll die trying. And this is what gives our work meaning. This is what gives our lives purpose. Right? The difference between vision and a goal is the finish line. A goal is 26.2 miles, you can simply count the metrics and know when you've completed your goal is a vision is having a crystal clear sense of what the finish line looks like, but no idea of how far away it is. And it's and the reality is you will spend your entire life never actually crossing the finish line. But the joy that every marathon Complete, you feel like you're getting closer. Every milestone that you accomplish makes you feel like you're getting closer and closer to the ideal. And this is what gives our life in our work meaning
Chad Owen 27:09
the unachievable vision. I think that's a great way to think of, well, what what should my YB? What should my company's y be? Because if it's got a simple answer, and we and we can see it next week, or next month or next year, it's probably not big enough. Totally, because America is still working towards that ideal and it's almost 250 years
mike parsons 27:37
later. Yeah, I know. But But, but Chad, I've lived in Australia, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the good old US of A and I can tell you what makes America so different on a cultural level is it was born with this desire to escape the repression of Europe that there Are these Founding Fathers that there is a constitution that there are amendments? The first amendment I've like, I've never lived anywhere in the world chat, which continuously references their own constitution like they do in the USA, like, the Spirit. And the pride that you experience in the USA is unlike any other country. You know, and this is often why outside of America, Americans are always perceived as being arrogant. But that's just because they're so damn proud. And they have every right to be quite frankly, because get over whatever turmoil is happening right now. In just over two 300 years, look at what America has created. And that is your proof about having a constitution and a vision of a huge promise of why they wanted to build a country that was different I mean, to me this is if you didn't have it in Apple, and he didn't get there on martin luther king high hope our listeners got there on America.
Chad Owen 29:08
Yeah, what I'm gonna I'm gonna clarify the document you're referring to me because I would actually go back to the Declaration of Independence, which is what Simon Sinek is, is talking about. So this is the founding document that before we even knew how the government was going to be created, and we had some rough ideas, it was going to be a representative Republic, in the second in the first, second and third paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence that y comes through, right the life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, though those ideals the Why is in the very beginning of the founding document of the country. The Constitution came several years later, which says, you know, here's here's how you let the president and here's what Congress can do. And here's what the President can do. That's the what are the and and the house of governance, but the founders, you know, Jefferson and Franklin and Adams in it All the others started with
mike parsons 30:02
why he exactly and who? Okay so Apple Martin Luther King America you can what is so exciting about what we've just shared is you can see this framework playing out in its fullest glory right there. I think what makes it so special is how this idea really was born of adversity. And what we were able to find is Simon, really explaining how he sort of got to this idea and so it's not often Chad that you and I get a chance to hear from someone so special about how they actually created the idea. And I really love hearing when we do get when we we search high and low and when we do find these, I think what's so special is it's it gives us a sense of perhaps some of the things we could do some of the questions we could ask of ourselves. When we're looking to make a big step or a small step, like just the reflection and the thinking process that Simon went through, I think is really powerful. I mean, how many chat how many of the different innovators and creators and entrepreneurs that we've studied? Have we really heard the moment of Genesis? There's not many, right?
Chad Owen 31:21
Yeah, it's, it's a bit confusing for me because I've gone to many books on our subjects. And so I think I was able to learn the Genesis story from you know, third hand write accounts in these books, but in their own words, not many I not in here actually coming to mind.
mike parsons 31:45
I'll help you. I mean, obviously, Branson continually tells us of these moments where he's like, I'm standing at the airport, right? Yeah,
Chad Owen 31:52
actually, and Joe gebbia, too, and Airbnb and
mike parsons 31:55
Oprah talked about the challenges that she faced. And how that kind of motivated her. Mm hmm. But yeah, so look, I can only encourage everyone just to tune into this because we are we're about to hear from Simon just how how he got to this idea and where he was coming from. So let's get into the creation story of start with y with Mr. Simon
Simon Sinek 32:23
Sinek. The y was born out of pain.
It was never an academic or commercial exercise. It was born out of a time in my life. Many years ago, 10 years ago, where I had lost my passion for what I was doing. I own my own small business, I was living the American dream. superficially, my life was fantastic. And yet I didn't want to wake up and do it again. And I was embarrassed by that. And who am I to complain about my life I life seemed perfect, and yet I hated it. And so I kept it to myself. every ounce of my being every all the energy that I had was invested in pretend Saying that I was happier, more successful and more in control than I felt. And it was debilitating, quite frankly, strange things start to happen. When you put yourself in that cycle and the stress starts to build, you start to become paranoid. So for example, I was convinced that my employees hated me.
Unknown Speaker 33:17
I didn't go out much.
Simon Sinek 33:18
And it was really, it was really a bad time, there was a confluence of events. And I made this discovery that every single organisation on the planet, even our own careers always function on the same three levels. What we do, how we do it, and why we do it. And it was based on the biology of human decision making wasn't some highfalutin management theory is based on Brain Stuff. And I realised I knew what I did, and was good at it. And I knew how I did it. I could tell you what was different or special about the way I did things, but I couldn't tell you why I was doing it. That was the missing piece. You have to have all three. I became obsessed with this thing called the why I figured out how to find my why and it restored my passion to levels I had never experienced before. And more importantly, I figured out how to help others find theirs. And I did what anyone would do. When you discover something beautiful, you share it with your friends and my friends started making crazy life changes themselves. And they started finding happiness and passion that they'd never experienced before. It was me solving my own problem that happened to help others solve it for them, too. And people just kept inviting me and I just kept saying, Yes, I was making huge decisions that were really easy to make. Like I shut down my office and started over again, because I realised the business I had built was so inconsistent with my wife or my friends that I went out of business and they worried about me, it was the easiest, easiest decision I ever made. In other words, when you know your why the filter is clear. It's not like there are options the option is obvious. There's only one option,
Chad Owen 34:46
share, give, inspire. This clip is resonating with me so much because I'm going through my own personal transformation, where I think this realisation and uncovering of my true Why so I had as maybe a semblance or an inkling of what my way was, but just in the past couple of months, I've really solidified it. And then once I did like this, you know, this big career and professional pivot that I'm making didn't quite seem so scary. And I'm really excited about the new opportunities. So I'm not going to leave you all hanging anymore. But I if I distil my own personal way to its essence, it's to help accelerate the pace of innovation for humanity. Wow. And I don't think I will ever fully achieve that. But I think it's kind of Simon's point.
mike parsons 35:41
Right? That's right. It's got to be there's got to be some serious stretch going on.
Chad Owen 35:45
Yeah. So I mean, I'm, I got like little goose bumps there because I think I went through a smaller version of kind of his mid career crisis. I didn't have to close down a big office and have my friends think that it was going on. of business but the reframe of my own way i think i mean this is resonating so much with me and I would encourage any of our listeners you know if you have a similar story or going through that process now like please we want to hear about it and we can share about or at you know, I'm I would love to share about my experience but I know that Sam is not alone because I experienced the same thing and I think that's why so many people are drawn to it because once we understand how important the Why is like Well yeah, why why haven't I been thinking about this? More in putting it at the centre of what I'm doing not on the periphery? Absolutely.
mike parsons 36:36
And that's that's what happens because you this this moment that you've gone through that senate went through that I've been through it's way you you face you reveal a truth that you have subconsciously felt wireframe which shifts it to a conscious state. So you can say what I am doing doesn't match what I want to do what I want to be the person That I believe I can become. And it sets you on this course. And it is incredibly powerful. And I think this is just the first of many gifts that we have from Simon Sinek. We've learned how the greatest marketing company in the planet does its marketing, one of the greatest leaders of a civil liberties movement, how he did it, we realised how one of the greatest countries to ever exist was born through the power of why, and it is so, so good. But we've got plenty more to come chat. I mean, are you ready now to shift into this whole universe of leadership and then we're going to shift into how you can use this in your personal and professional life? Mm hmm. Any thoughts before we jump into leadership Chad? No, I mean, I would recommend everyone I'll do my little mini book review. plug here, the audible audio book of start with why is read by Simon himself. The book is great read by the author, it's even better because I'm sure as you can hear, he's a very good orator. And it's one of the most well read, if not the most well read business book that I've that I've listened to in quite some time. So I would just, I would tell everyone, if you've got the audible app, download the book, it's really fantastic to hear it in Simon's with why by Simon Sinek Alright, let's get into to leadership. Now what's really cool about the way Sinek has decoded this framework is he's also thought about how it relates not only to leadership but some of the biometric genetic science that's behind that. And so we're going to actually kick off this leadership piece by hearing from Simon talking about how science plays a role in leadership. You
Simon Sinek 39:00
look at a cross section of the human brain looking from the top down, the human brain evolved into three major areas that corresponds with this little idea. The outside area, the what level is our newest brain our homosapien brain called our neocortex. The neocortex is responsible for all of our rational and analytical thought and language. The middle two sections, why and how make up our limbic brains and our limbic brains are responsible for all of our feelings, like trust, and loyalty. It's also responsible for all human behaviour, all decision making, and it has no capacity for language. So we rationalise that how can sometimes when you're not the best price service quality features, you still have loyal customers, there is an inextricable link between leadership and communication. Those who lead are the ones who can clearly communicate what they believe, and those who clearly communicate What the Bleep are the ones
Chad Owen 39:58
Huh, belief and leadership. For me, this goes back to it's not what you do. It's why you do it. And the Why is the belief and he also mentioned that your why leads to purpose. So all of these are inextricably linked in my mind, the why the purpose, the beliefs, and that's what he's arguing is the true driver of you know, people willing to be to follow a leader or to buy a product from a company, etc.
mike parsons 40:29
Yeah, you know, for me, this is just when you the way I kind of interpret this is it's when you do something great. Like, you and I were just working together on something in New York and we did this big design thinking sprint over two days. And it's that feeling that you have when you come together as a team, you get something done. Couldn't have done it better. And you get the goosebumps, right? You feel great. And that is like that's like your body's releasing all sorts of, you know, endorphins and dopamine hits and goodness knows what. But that's really what happens when you get together and you, you lead together and you get the job done. That's the trigger that that happens. That's the goosebumps, isn't it?
Chad Owen 41:26
Yeah. It's what brought us out of the valley of darkness, you know, that we all experience in in that place in the project, you know, where you think that nothing can go right. But you can turn to your left and turn to your right and understand that, hey, we're all in this together for this singular purpose. And we all share the same Why?
mike parsons 41:48
Yeah, you know, because we agreed to it at the outset. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. That is what gets us across the finish line. It's not you are I standing up at the front of the room cheerleading. It's actually because we all have the the Same innate drive. Now while we're on this leadership tip, let's let's just jump in. There's another. We've got another thought from Simon on leadership, which is equally powerful. And one thing I have to say is, why do people put all these piano these sloppy piano tracks under all these speakers? Like, just let their words do the music like what is with these sort of overwrought piano tracks?
Chad Owen 42:30
Or it's, it's because it's because there's all of these YouTube channels like specifically dedicated to quote unquote motivational quotes and they're super lazy and they just have the same three sappy piano tracks that they lay over everyone, whether it's like, I don't know. Tom Brady or Simon Sinek or whoever, brock obama.
mike parsons 42:55
Yeah, I mean, maybe this is our second wacky startup. The first one is your doggie treats when the other one we're going to come out with is
Chad Owen 43:03
it Uber or dog treats Mike, get it straight. Oh, sorry.
mike parsons 43:07
Sorry, Uber for dog treats. And the other one we'll do is overwrought piano tracks that people can. Yeah, come right. Back to leadership. Let's let's, let's kind of spice it up with a few more thoughts from Simon on leadership.
Simon Sinek 43:26
Every decision we make in our lives as individuals or organisations is a piece of communication. It tells the outside world something about who you are, the clearer you are about what you believe. The more disciplined you are about how you do things, the more consistent you are in what you do. Everything you say, and everything you do then becomes a symbol for that set of values and beliefs.
So when you talk about what you believe, and you put your beliefs and your values in clear words or symbols, consistent enough authentic enough that I know that Everything you say and do represents what you believe I will be drawn to you. For myself for my own survival doing business with you working for you, being your friend says something about who I am. We follow those who lead not for them.
But for ourselves. This is for people who want to inspire those around them, or who want to find somebody to inspire them. I can say without a doubt.
Chad Owen 44:26
You inspire me. Oh, thank you, Simon. But I
mike parsons 44:33
he's a bloody good. He's such a good speaker.
Chad Owen 44:35
Oh, yeah. Isn't he? Yeah, like at times. I think he takes it a little too far. But I don't want to gloss over how complex his simple languages because I think like there's really only three or four core ideas in this book, but he expands it to book length because there's so many examples and ways to under under Stan these things. But this is actually kind of a new insight that I'm pulling out of this that I didn't necessarily get from the book so explicitly. And I've heard you talk about something similar in that if we really distil our beliefs and values in a way that we can begin to create symbols, then it's those symbols that we the consumer, or those who want to be led, like adopt as our own because we see ourselves in them. So give me a practical example of that. But let's, let's dig into this for a second. Mmm hmm. I think for me, I'm trying to not use Apple as an example because it's already here on the show. Do you have one at the ready, Mike, you might have to come back to me.
mike parsons 45:47
Well, well, I think there's a couple of different ways around this. I think that once you have your why you can ask yourself, Well, what are the behaviours and actions that will get me there? And Then you can also ask yourself, well how should I behave? If that is my why and you can do that either as a brand or as an individual. So to me there's like, from a brand perspective, there's all this idea of social proof people demonstrating that they're on board with a certain why the live strong band is a great example of that. To kind of express your you're in a movement, the red products that that you know, for example, you can buy a red iPhone and you're saying, Hey, I'm investing some of my money into into the fight against AIDS. When you when you take it onto a personal level, I think there's like two ways to do this. There you can hold yourself to a new bar, a new level, a new expectation of how you should behave in order to realise your why. One of the more external versions of that is to praise Ric praise and identify and sit in simple realise behaviours in others that you really want to encourage. So, a great one, I'll come to you, I'll just finish the thought and then you can repeat it. So a great example is parents often tried to use positive reinforcement of behaviours in their children in order to set them up for success. So, for me, the big thing here is really stressing effort on the side of my son, whenever he really puts in an effort, I actually make a bigger deal of that than the reward or the or the results should we say, and if the results really good for me, it's more about emphasising the effort than the the result itself, because he won't won't always do well in class or on the sporting field. So it's really important to emphasise the effort and the hard work that will set you up for that success. So that's like many dimensions of how You can lead yourself but also help others become leaders on their own by saying, Hey, I love it when you do that. That's great. That's awesome. that inspires me. Yeah. Yeah, it was funny how I was struggling to think of an example because it's only very recently where I've begun to really think of myself as a leader and kind of, or at least try to and aspire to be a leader. But the example that I came up with when it when it comes to translating values and beliefs into assemble is I've been organising these gaming meetups for almost two years now and put you through meetup calm so it's potential strangers that are signing up for the these events and coming to these gaming meetups. We do board games and role playing games.
I am a firm believer in inclusion of all peoples, and to demonstrate that I have named tags and My name tag I put my name Chad, and my pronouns, which is he and him, because I don't want someone that might not, you know, identify with a stereotypical, you know, gender identity to feel excluded. So that simple act, I don't even have to tell people to put their pronouns on their name tags. It's just from that example it kind of spreads. And before you know what everyone there has put their pronouns on their name tags. That's, that's the most concrete example that that I have in it. It's really simple, but I think it makes a huge difference to the, I guess, people that I'm leading in, in the meetup and the diversity of the group that continues to come is is an example. Exactly, exactly. And I'll give you something that Sinek talks about a lot in one of these other books is that leaders eat last and great leaders in the workplace will join a meeting and be the last to speak. Because that is an act of humility, but also it's a huge symbol in behaviour to towards others that they can be leaders. And it's the opposite of that traditional kind of swashbuckling cowboy like the CEO Roxanne guys, right guys, here's what I think here's what we should do. discuss what cynic proposes very much in line with what you what you were just saying is, you know, the best leaders just come in and say, Okay, what do you guys think? So, lots and lots there in this whole universe of leadership.
But hold on to your hats Ladies and gentlemen, because we have got a stack of really powerful ideas that can help you in your personal life help you in the office as well. And all of these, you can Find written out in our show notes on moonshots dot i o I am very happy to say that we have been dutifully putting content on the website now for for well over a year so it is jam packed with goodies. I'm taking just a little breather here. We've had leadership, we've had this wide framework in all of its all of its glory. Before we jump into personal life and work life chat, I wanted to ask Are there any ways in your personal life or your work life? Where you see yourself using a little bit of Simon Sinek? Or you've taken a clue from his thinking? How might we see Simon Sinek start with why (purchase on Amazon) inspiration in your work day.
Chad Owen 51:52
I think the most work that I've done in my work specifically around this framework is just simply how I position Why I do, what I do, how I do it and what I do. And I have just come up with meaning go to my LinkedIn profile and see it, you'll see three sentences kind of to those effects. And I just simply ask, okay, what's the one sentence of why do I do what I do? And then and also the how, and the what I think it's a really easy framework that anyone can do not only just kind of for your own personal career, but your business and the way you position yourself. So that's the end. It doesn't you know, I think if you start with a strong why it doesn't really take very long too, to get to the rest. So that's, that's my little like LinkedIn trick is Yeah, just use this framework to come up with your with your profile summary, and then you've got it.
mike parsons 52:46
Alright, so we had the chat. Oh, and why I think it's only appropriate that we kick off this section of the show, with Simon Sinek talking a little bit about his own personal why
Simon Sinek 53:00
true sense of purpose doesn't come from what we can do to get
it comes from what we can do for others. I'm an idealist. And I want to live in a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired to go to work, feel safe when they're there, and come home fulfilled at the end of the day.
I had a good career in advertising. And I completely lost my passion for what I was doing. It made me feel like my my job was stupid. Martin Luther King to Apple computers, it doesn't matter. Those have the capacity to inspire. Every single one of them regardless of their size, regardless of their industry thinks act and communicate from the inside out. They all start with why when you have the why it gives you this calm confidence that when people are yelling and screaming at you what you should do, you go
on my path.
So you've never seen a tm and you see the Golden Circle or why and the reason Because I want others to take it, I want others to build on it.
All of those techniques used to build a company in the 80s and 90s. They're not working anymore. What happens? innovation suffers, engagement suffers, productivity suffers trust suffers.
So okay, you busted CEO who thinks all the stuff that I talked about is craziness, and you don't have time to make these changes. We don't have time it's a war out there. I know guys are going to war and I'll tell you, it's not a war. You know, you tinker with money.
Chad Owen 54:40
You tinker with Yeah, I think this clip actually leads directly into the next where he ties he ties the this thinking around what your why as to how you demonstrate what your why is and how, how that those are. This gets back to you talking about it's the best havior that is what's demonstrating your beliefs and attitudes. So I'd like to actually just go straight into what Simon calls the salary test
Simon Sinek 55:11
tool to help you find a job or seize an opportunity in which you're more likely to succeed. It removes a lot of the guessing. Here's a metaphor to show you what I mean. It's called the celery test. We're constantly asking people for their advice on what to do or how to do it. It's like going to a dinner party, and somebody says, Do you know what you need? You need m&ms? We've done so well with m&ms. You've got to use m&ms. Somebody else says to us rice milk in this economy, you have to use rice milk. Someone else says to us Kit Kats you have to use Kit Kats and somebody else's to you. It's all about celery. We go to the supermarket with all this good advice from all these smart people with brilliant case studies. And we buy everything. We buy Kit Kats and m&ms, celery and rice milk.
There's a lot of time we spend it The supermarket and a lot of money we spend at the supermarket. And when we get to the checkout line, we're standing there with all these products in our hands, and no one can see what we believe, because we bought everything. But let's imagine we know our why. Let's imagine our wise to always be healthy, and only do things that protect the health of our bodies. Now, which products do we buy? Given all the same advice from all the same smart people, this time, we only buy celery, and we only buy rice milk. They're the only two that makes sense.
We spend less time and less money at the supermarket. And when we're standing there in line with only celery and only rice milk, now people can see what we believe. somebody walking past can say, Hey, I can see that you're healthy. So am I you just attracted an opportunity or a referral or a friend simply by saying and doing the things that you believe and the best part is it scalable? As soon as I said the why you knew exactly which products we were going to buy. This means the more you can articulate your why The more others will know what you stand for and will be able to help you make the right decisions from now on you will work to ensure everything you do is a good fit.
mike parsons 57:09
Isn't that just the neatest example at what's in your shopping basket reflects you? What's it reminds me of what's in your in your library? You know, you can tell a man by the library. Yeah. Yeah. If you know your why. The funny thing is I got very practical in my mind there. I was like, Yeah, well, that's why I have this big emphasis on working out. This is why I have a big emphasis on drinking a tonne of water particularly at the beginning of the day. These are just things that represent what I stand for which is being healthy and the reason I want to feel healthy because I feel alive and energetic and clear headed and relaxed. I feel great when I'm at my best like that. So I it's such a good way to to see that the why. In inaction the picture.
Chad Owen 57:57
Yeah, I think for me, you would spend And maybe 30 seconds in my apartment or at my desk in my office and understand who I was. Because, well, for two reasons
mike parsons 58:11
i can i can agree with because I did that for the first time. Hang on Ted. I did this for the first time. I mean, we've known each other for ages. But for the first time I stood at your desk, what? A week ago. What
Chad Owen 58:23
am I surrounded by at all time board games? Its books. There are books. Let me clarify their books.
mike parsons 58:31
Yeah, yeah. And there was a lot of bushes and a lot of books. Yeah,
Chad Owen 58:33
but I think I surround myself with books because I am a lifelong learner. Yeah. For me, that means books. So on my right, yes, I have some of my game books. But on my left, I've got my design thinking innovation books from Tom Kelly from IDEO, and, and the likes. And at home I have all my film books, and the fiction that I'm reading and the other nonfiction like, for me, it's just surrounded myself with books. And now that I think about it, that is how I express My personality as a lifelong learner,
mike parsons 59:03
and myself as well, I mean, you've seen my study, my study is just about one massive Dell monitor, surrounded by books. And, you know, that feels good. And, you know, it reflects what I'm about. What is really interesting about synnex thinking is that it powers some of the choices you make. And it also can unlock your motivation not only to go out and do great things, but but I particularly like it too. Because when you face adversity, if you always remember your why you can get through it. Whereas if you're not really deeply motivated, you kind of hit some struggles, and then you sort of jettison the mission. So we've got another clip here, and this is Simon Sinek talking about From where does passion come.
Unknown Speaker 59:58
Passion is not an action Word.
Simon Sinek 1:00:01
It's correct. You know that those who do the things that they're passionate about do better, but it's not helpful advice. And so the question is where does passion come from? passion is a result. Passion is an energy. Passion is the feeling you have, when you're engaged in something that you love. Passion is the feeling you have, that you would probably do this for free. You know, and you can't believe somebody pays you to do it. You know. And I think we mistake that passion is something we do in our private lives, but it shouldn't be done, you know, in our careers, for example, and I'm a firm believer that you are, who you are.
And anybody who says I'm different at home than I am at work and one of those two places you're lying. And the goal is to make everything you do in home and at work, something that you have excitement to do. So how do you find the things that you're excited to do? Well, it's actually easier than you think. What are the things that you love to do? What are the things that you would do for free, you know, how can you recreate that feeling and and be paid for it. So what are the things that I do on the weekend, right? I love. I'm very involved in the art world. I love to go to museums and galleries, but I love to go see dance and performances, because I want to see how others are, are interpreting the world. So that inspires me new ideas, new thoughts, new ways of looking at the world are things that interest me privately and I seek it out and pay money for it. Right? So does that mean I have to have a career in the arts? No, it means I have to have a career where new ideas are explored, where people are experimenting and trying things out. And I have to explore new ideas and try things out. And I'm just as excited to go to work every day as I am to, you know, go do something on a Saturday night. And so the idea of finding your passion is ironically simple, because you should be doing stuff that you enjoy sometimes. What is the stuff that you enjoy? And then what is the stuff that you love? Who the people that you love and what are those what they all have in common?
mike parsons 1:01:57
This one's big Chad. This one's really big. Yeah, I mean it.
Chad Owen 1:02:00
My example of this of this, you know, professional pivot that I've made, it's actually directly tied to me being a lifelong learner. I was feeling a bit of a plateau in my learning in what I was doing previous. And so I made the leap into this new thing, so that I could jump back on to doing what I love doing all the time that I spend all my time doing when I'm not getting paid for it. It's, you know, it's learning.
mike parsons 1:02:29
Yeah, yeah, I'm here. Here's what we can really take out of this clip. What I have found so powerful, is to answer the question, would I do this if I wasn't paid, and trying to create, particularly how we work in our careers, if you can create an environment that is as close as you can get it to something you would do without being paid? For me? This is one of the greatest efforts I've been on my entire life. Because like you I had plateaued, I was running a big ad agency in San Francisco. And I was like, yeah, you know, I'm kind of done with this. It's not really me. I looked at my boss, I was like, I don't want his life. Get me out of here.
And the freedom that I have had since then is I've been on a mission to try and design work, meaning the things I do with the people I do it are people that I would hang out with on my weekends, people that I would love to be with at a dinner party people I would love to play sport with people that make me happy that I'm interested in I could think of nothing better than having a cup of coffee with them. doing work that naturally makes my mind inspired, rich. You know, all the well being that comes from the thinking Doing and building something and feeling to me what has what comes from this thinking of cynic is the challenge to all of us to create a work life that resembles something as close as you can make it that you would do without getting paid. How big is this chat? It is such a big idea.
Chad Owen 1:04:22
Yeah. And yet it's so hard. You know, like, you and I are very, very fortunate. We we have, we have very good circumstances in which to pursue this. But for those of us that that may feel a bit stuck in our work situation. What has worked for me and in those circumstances has been to find those small opportunities where you can volunteer or maybe go the slight extra mile to work with that team. That is the people That you would hang out with on the weekend or take on some extra workload for that project that you would do. Even if you weren't getting paid. Now, we might have to kind of slide back into the things that we're maybe not quite so passionate about. Right.
But it's not to say that you have to abandon ship and in only do what you're passionate about, if, you know if if you have an established career or you're at a company that you know, you want to stick with, for the long haul, it's, it's for me, it's really about finding all those small opportunities to create those moments of passionate work shadow and you're like a mind reader because this next clip is all about how to think about success because what you're talking about is also making small or big steps towards our own success. So let's just jump straight into Simon Sinek talking about how we can all think about success.
Simon Sinek 1:05:56
I think success is is is seeing those around you work to their natural best, and creating momentum for a vision towards a vision that will last beyond yourself.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:10
So a guy is driving a bus for 20 years, got to retire. He's on Madison Avenue in New York packed every day his people getting on that bus and getting off, huh? He has two kids wife lives in Queens. He might call themselves successful. Now the guy might be vice president of that company who call self unsuccessful.
Simon Sinek 1:06:33
So his success what you make of it, its success is a feeling. It's not it's not a series of checkmarks and goals. I think people define success as as finish lines. You know, they well I ran a marathon I'm successful. The question is a Why did you run the marathon and what happens after you've completed the marathon? You just keep running marathons. What happens if you break your leg and you can no longer run marathons? You know, we set a lot of people set financial goals. I'm successful when I make my first million. Okay, now I have to make my second million. It's success is a feeling and and it's the feeling of contribution. So your bus driver in Queens have he has decided that his job as a bus driver is to ensure that everyone who gets on his bus feels better about themselves because they got on his bus and not another bus. And so he greets them with a smile. He says Good morning, he says goodbye, that people remember that, that that that ride that they took with him versus the this vice president of the company who's made it about himself and his financial goals. He's the one who's unhappy, as opposed to seeing those around him succeed. And those around him go home with a love of their their day, you know, because they come to work in his company every day. So I still believe success and good leadership are about service to other
Chad Owen 1:07:48
service to others. I think we're bleeding into leaders eat last a bit here, but this like not, not making Success about yourself is a really interesting reframe for me, and calling it a feeling and like not a goal or a destination. That's what I'm taking away from, from his ideas around success.
mike parsons 1:08:14
And it's an act thing that you can do for someone today, which is, you know, that's the empowerment here. It's not like with all goals, the greatest challenges you set some massive, lofty faraway, multi year, you know, the classic 2020 goal, but it means that it all feels So, so far away. It's just translating what can I do today? I, you know, I would love to pivot into to some of our work life clips because I think we've got a great clip that I'd love to end on, about why all of this kind of why framework feels right. But I think we should serve the kind of the workplace a little bit here, and how this comes alive. And I hope all All of our listeners are getting like a tonne of ideas. I hope you're taking notes from this. And don't forget to head off to moonshots.io. If you want to find out a lot more about Simon Sinek and check out all the links that we have there. I think there's two thoughts around kind of jumping across to our professional lives here. And the first one that we're going to hear from Simon Sinek is about being in the company of the right people. And, you know, who is it Chad that says, You are the sum, there was someone that came up with the idea that you're the sum of the five people you spend the most time with? Is there something like that? How does that go? I never trust the origins of those.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:44
Same Yes.
mike parsons 1:09:45
It's probably an ancient Chinese proverb. Exactly,
Chad Owen 1:09:48
but it is true. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's
mike parsons 1:09:52
like you You know, you are the books you read. You are the company you keep and well Simon Sinek Scott's Thinking on this too. So let's have a listen to Simon talking about keeping the right
Simon Sinek 1:10:05
company. I'm at my best when I'm around people who believe what I believe. I know it seems silly, but I try very, very hard to sort of stack the deck in order to put myself in a position of strength. So for example, you know, somebody asked me just yesterday, have you ever had sort of a bad, you know, engagement? I was thinking this I'm like, not really. But it's not because I'm some sort of sort of genius or anything like that. It's because I stack the deck. It's because I want to be there. I want to be around people who want me there. In other words, if I'm somebody's 10th choice, and like, you know, I'll probably turn it down. Whereas if I'm their first choice, they really want me there. And so I'm more likely to have a good engagement. They're supportive of me, I'm supportive of them. And so yeah, I'm at my best when I, when I stack the deck when I choose to be in an environment
Unknown Speaker 1:10:53
where my strengths are, are there.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:56
Such a good thought?
Chad Owen 1:10:57
Yeah. I wonder how we find Find that or how how you, Mike might create that environment or find that right environment because I also see it not only is you know the friends or maybe colleagues that you work with, but in a way, it's also like your customers or your clients as well. So your business is only as good as your, your five best clients or your five, you know, main customer types. Great point.
mike parsons 1:11:28
Great point, Chad. So for me, this is a huge, huge, huge, powerful insight that most people haven't tapped into. We often when someone rings you up and says, Hey, I would like to work with you. You get all excited and you run to them and try and convince them that you are worthy. I would say this is an equal transaction where they need to prove that they are worthy to work with you. We were together last week in New York celebrating like a fantastic project. There was you, myself and two of our other colleagues sitting together. And we were, we were swimming in a halo of deep satisfaction of hard work that has paid off. And we were all just savouring the moment. But that was equally a result of the wonderful client, that we work with three people very closely at this client, who are just great people. They are fun, they're smart, they care deeply about their work, and they respect what we have to say. They listen. And we accommodate all the quirks that both we, you, me, Chad, and the client, how we accommodate each other. And every time we've worked together over the last year, we've had success together, it's mutual. And so for me we keep showing up together with them though because we also believe what they believe And vice versa. And the key thing here to really, and what I'm not saying that what we're doing is perfect by any means, but I'm just saying that the learning inside of what Simon Sinek was saying is, don't just blindly take business from other companies, your your clients, or your customers. Think to yourself for a moment, are these people that I want to hang out with? Do I feel comfortable? Are we aligned? Do we share the same vision? Can Can I see us coexisting together? Because I can tell you we often sense when there's not a fit. And when we continue to work with people when we knew before we started that there wasn't a good feeling, but we kept going. I can tell you with absolute certainty, that ain't gonna work out. Is it just those situations never turned to the good, do
Chad Owen 1:13:54
they? No matter how much you get paid?
mike parsons 1:13:58
That you know No, not at all. So so I think that it's a question of, don't just charge in and say, great, it's a project because that means we're aligned on the what are we aligned on the how we want to work and why we are working. And I think, again, cynic delivers here. And he's got another thought, stay with us. Audience because I know you guys are just furiously taking notes, but there's still so much to give, because here's the next one. We've talked a lot about using the wire to align with people. But let's go back one step. Let's say you're meeting someone, whether it's a client or whether you're a candidate looking for a job. Let's really get into why talking about the why it's a little bit tricky, sometimes. Maybe it's a little personal or a little emotional. We might not have the language or the words, but it's essential to find them because what we're going to hear from now is Simon Sinek talking about the power of communicating your
Simon Sinek 1:15:00
watch, what you'll find is that that the better you are at communicating your why people will want to work for you, regardless of the opportunity that you afford them, like they want to be a part of it. Yeah, we do a little thing, which we've been doing for years and years and years, called give and take whenever there's any kind of relationship, whether it's a, an outside partnership, or even somebody who joins our team, we do something called give and take where we want somebody to be selfish and selfless within the relationship. So not giving get given take. So we'll ask them, what is it that you have to give to us that you have that you think that we need, right? And they'll tell us and then we'll say great, what is it that you selfishly want from us? And we want them to tell us what they can get from us. And then when those when those things match, you have a balanced relationship? Because So, for example, I've had it with people, you know, they'll tell me what they what they have to offer, and that's awesome because that's what I want. And then they'll say what they have what they want to take and they go oh, I want to work with the smart people. I'm like, plenty of smart people. What is it you want to take from me? They're like, Oh, I want to help build something wonderful. Do that anywhere. What do you want to take selfishly from me, they can get nowhere else. And if they can't answer the question, I want to gauge in relationship. And the reason is because in time the relationship is unbalanced. They're gonna be giving, but they're not taking and I don't even know how to give them what they want, then they'll complain that I'm making
Chad Owen 1:16:18
enough money or that because it's not balanced. That's right. I think I heard my friend Gary Vee there on that clip. I this is I don't think I've actually come across this clip from him. It's actually really interesting to me because this idea of reciprocity is in a book that I just read by Robert Cialdini influence, but I think it is so important not just in business, but also in kind of a personal relationship to now like it might not be a financial arrangement there. But clearly, if you're not on the same page with either your partner or your close friends, someone is going to start to feel neglected. And I think that's what Simon is trying to get. Ahead of here in this give and take framework. Yeah,
mike parsons 1:17:05
very, very interesting technique one of, like so many different things we've, we've covered today. I mean, if you go back to it with, we started with like just reversing the order instead of talking about what you do start with why because that's what people are buying, whether you want to build a company a movement or a whole entire nation, it can do the job. And and then what for me is is really powerful is understanding the behaviours that go with your why. And understanding that when you talk about your why and you live up to your why people are energised by that they they want to be around people who know their why it radiates this positive energy. And then we saw the famous celery test like know what's in your shopping basket. At the at the end when you're checking out that shouldn't be Match app totally with your why. And if there's something is out there, then you need to look at what, how or why. And I think that knowing this unlocks such a deep, deep passion from within. It creates motivation and reframes how you think about success. And you can use it in your personal and work life. I mean, Holy smoke, we're getting all of this chat from one book. I cannot believe this is one book chat.
Chad Owen 1:18:28
And we have four more episodes to go here. So, but
mike parsons 1:18:32
it feels pretty feels pretty damn good, doesn't it?
Chad Owen 1:18:36
Yeah, you kind of took all of my learnings here and the one that sticks most with me, I think, again, it's kind of one of those no brainers but the way he says that I think is concise and compelling, is simply that we connect most with people who believe what we believe and so if you can understand your own beliefs, communicate those beliefs, you will then have better personal and professional relationships because again, your your why's, your visions your purpose is is more aligned.
mike parsons 1:19:11
Yeah. And I felt like that's what was happening for us recently, when we were together in New York. We're just surrounded by like, quite a few people. But we were all like, coming from the same why we were all wanted to create something, do something that was inherently good. We had a good story to tell a good product to create, that would help millions of people like it just was goodness, right there in there. And everyone was there for a bit of that goodness.
Chad Owen 1:19:43
Yeah, and centred around an idea that's very important to us. It's in the title of our podcast. I mean, everyone was there to uncover, discover, explore, share, and create experiences around innovation. Yeah. So in, in there are other things, you know that that other shared beliefs, but you know, that's kind of the easiest one to cut to call out there. And now it's, you know, what has brought you and I together here on this podcast in the shared belief that there are yes so many lessons to be learned from the greatest minds in entrepreneurship and innovation and that's why we're we're going on 53 episodes. Strong here.
mike parsons 1:20:28
Hmm. Now I do want to sneak in one last clip. Chad, do you think I'm allowed to
Chad Owen 1:20:32
do yeah, I we might be breaking a record here. This is clip number 14.
mike parsons 1:20:37
Right. Let's have a let's get some last thoughts from Simon Sinek on why all of this circle of why why framework? Why asking these damn tricky question. It's three letters. Why? Why does this all feel so good?
Simon Sinek 1:20:57
People often say that they think
they have their way Well, more than that, that they feel it that it feels right. And they know they're in the ballpark, but they're struggling to find the words. That's okay. The most important part about this wide process is that indeed it feels right. Remember, the Y exists in the part of the brain, the limbic brain that controls our feelings. It also controls all our behaviour and decision making. And so we don't want to think that it's right, we want to feel that it's right. And once you have that gut decision that that that's it. And you get goosebumps when you start telling the stories that you think push you towards your why, then you know, you had it if you start to well up or having an emotional response, you definitely know you're in the ballpark, then the trick is to find the words and it's the words it's the ability to articulate your why that makes it actionable. And so absolutely the why the words will evolve, the words will adapt and change but the meaning cannot. It's the meaning of those words, those words that give you that visceral feeling those goosebumps that make you well up whatever the feeling you have is that's what's Paramount But the words you can tweak and change Absolutely. For the end of time, I've tweaked my wide multiple times over the years, but the meaning of the basic direction is still exactly the same. It's like a submarine. When the captain orders the submarine to go north, the submarine doesn't go in a straight line, it kind of goes like this. And your why is the same thing. You need to know the direction it's heading. But it's okay. If it goes like this as you're tweaking the words, as long as you're moving in the right direction. Learning to start with why really is, especially in a business context, when you're interviewing for a job or pitching your services to someone it really is remarkable. I get so many letters from people, you know, all excited that they went into a pitch or they went into a job interview, and they started with why and they were so excited that not only did they get the job, but the person who hired them actually said, we love dot, dot dot, and they repeat their way back to them. They don't talk about their qualifications or any of these things. In other words, it really does drive human behaviour. And the more you get good at it, the more you start to feel and see the results of starting with y
Chad Owen 1:23:00
huva I think the this last connection connecting the dots here across all of these amazing clips from Simon what this is bringing home for me is this it comes it comes down to this human connection and so if we can begin to understand our why begin to feel our why begin to say our Why put it into words, what happens is there are others out there in the world that begin to see themselves in us in our why and that that shared belief and like going back to the the older limbic brain inside of us, there's that primal attraction to to our tribe. And I think that's really what this this is all about. Yeah.
mike parsons 1:23:50
Well said Chad Owen. We broke the record on clips, 14 clips 90 minutes. I would love to thing we've always said let's make the show so you can do it in one commute. I think we firmly broke that rule today, but that's alright. As Simon Sinek is totally worth it. And Chad, this won't be the last Simon Sinek show. What on earth can we possibly do after this?
Chad Owen 1:24:18
Well, I know that Simon's next book that he wrote was leaders eat last. And then Mike, you've got at least two other books of his on your bookshelf there.
mike parsons 1:24:30
Mm hmm. Oh, yeah. Check us out on social media everyone. You'll see the little cheeky joke that that Chad's making here as well. Your bourbon is his happens to be there and keeping those books? Yeah, there's a bit less of it in the
Unknown Speaker 1:24:45
bottle. From the last time I was in Sydney,
mike parsons 1:24:49
it this this is hard work. It didn't say it was gonna be easy. But yeah, we're gonna dig into this next instalment of Simon saying leaders eat last and And oh my gosh. If you think Mike Parsons gets excited about start with why you will find that I get very excited about this one as well. I have to add that after that we are going to dive into a less known book, but nonetheless powerful together is better. Very interesting, a little book buy by Simon Sinek a bit of a picture book there, then we've got a very practical tool of the finding your way. I mean, that's, that's essentially the playbook that's gonna go really deep in implementing the why. Yeah, it's almost like the workbook. It is Yeah, you're absolutely right. And then the last of the five part series will be on his book, The Infinite game, which is who we are taking his thinking to a whole new level, and it's about dynasty legacy, and like, thinking in dynastic terms, so very, very, very exciting. Can't wait to get to the next show. I've just found Like refresh just getting back into to start with why I mean, I must have read this like nine years ago I think and it's funny how it still the thinking still energises me so much
Chad Owen 1:26:11
yeah and so many people just aren't taking his practically free advice it's so easy I don't know why more people don't don't do it
mike parsons 1:26:20
yeah yeah it's been very powerful as I've said in work personally is that that's what has really made that book so distinct that whether it's creating a story architecture for for our clients or whether it's me challenging myself What on earth you doing Mike wake up either way it's it's a great tool to launch me into action and deeply deeply rewarding read totally. Oh, it's really up there on my favourite books are a top five business books easy. So with that Chad we sort of get to the end of our first instalment I'm I'm walking away with A lot of energy How does the evening finish for you now that you've been pumped up with all of this Simon Sinek? Are you able to relax? Are you gonna do a have to do a Netflix and chill? I mean, what happens next? No, it's back back to work for me. I'm actually gonna, I'm gonna issue a small challenge to all of our listeners. I'm going to get on my LinkedIn profile. And just be sure that what's up there is reflecting of my why. And yeah, be curious to see what other profiles get updated after, after this episode. But for me, that's kind of the easiest and most practical way to start to implement
Chad Owen 1:27:38
some of the ideas that we've unpacked here.
mike parsons 1:27:40
Yeah, on the show. My second advice to our listeners would probably be listen to the show again, and then take notes because they rely and download the
Chad Owen 1:27:49
audio, the audio but
mike parsons 1:27:50
yeah, that would that's a good one too. Yeah. All right, Chad. Oh, and we are at the end it has been fantastic to share this journey with you. And to all of our audience. Thank you for sticking with us for an absolute marathoner, Chad and Mike. I truly hope that it was worthwhile for you guys because I had such a ball. It was great. I can't wait to do the next show. Chad. I think we're at that point where we say goodbye. And that's a wrap of the moonshots podcast.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai