Malcolm Gladwell Master Series

EPISODE 33

Join us in this enlightening episode of the Moonshots Master Series as hosts Mike and Mark dive into the fascinating work of bestselling author Malcolm Gladwell. Discover the transformative power of rethinking perceived advantages and the true nature of success.

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INTRO: Understanding Advantages with Malcolm Gladwell Delve into Malcolm's analysis from his book David & Goliath, as he enlightens us on how to view advantages in a new light. Explore why what we often see as disadvantages can be powerful assets. (Starts at 0m00s)

SEGMENT 1: The 10,000 Hour Rule Revisited Malcolm revisits his influential concept from Outliers, emphasizing the critical role of dedicated practice in mastering any skill. This segment sheds light on the commitment needed to excel and how to approach the development of your abilities realistically. (Starts at 2m01s)

SEGMENT 2: Malcolm on Writing - Approaching Challenges Gain invaluable insights as Malcolm shares his strategies for tackling writing challenges. Whether you're an aspiring writer or looking to conquer your next big project, Malcolm's practical advice will guide you toward achieving your goals. (Starts at 4m03s)

OUTRO: Daily Insights with Malcolm Gladwell Before we wrap up, Malcolm imparts his daily wisdom on the small yet significant actions we should all be integrating into our daily routines to foster continuous growth and improvement. (Starts at 5m33s)

Don’t miss this episode packed with actionable insights and expert guidance from one of the most influential thinkers of our time, Malcolm Gladwell. Tune in to transform your understanding of challenges, practice, and success in any endeavor.

About Moonshots Master Series: Our masterclass podcast provides entrepreneurial insights into self-improvement, decision-making, leadership, and entrepreneurship. Each episode features wisdom from diverse superstars and includes practical frameworks to help you grow. Join us monthly for a deep dive into personal and professional transformation!

Transcript

00:00:04:23 - 00:00:31:06

Unknown

Hello and welcome to the Moonshots master series. It's episode 33. I'm your co-host, Mike Parsons, and as always, I'm joined by the man himself, Mr. Mark Pearson. Frelund. Good morning. Mac. Hey. Good morning Mike. Good morning. Subscribers. Remember, this is a master series. So welcome all of our individuals who very shortly Mike will receive their trumpet introductions. But before we get into all of that, good stuff, boy.

00:00:31:06 - 00:01:08:02

Unknown

Mike, do we have some good stuff ahead of us today with the topic of episode 33 in the master series? Yes, we are going into one of our superstars all time favorites. a man who covers a broad range of subjects. Great storyteller. Mark, who are we going to go deep into the work of today? Well, an an individual, Mike, that we have covered on the show, on the weekly moonshot show before it is Malcolm Gladwell, a very, very popular journalist and author who has such an engaging, writing as well as presentation style.

00:01:08:02 - 00:01:34:13

Unknown

Mike, I just can't wait to hear all the clips again, even though I've listened to them probably a dozen times now. But as we know and as a lot of our subscribers and listeners will probably be familiar with, his penchant and talent is really distilling those complex, either social science elements or, very intellectual, ideas and insights and concepts into quite accessible ideas that then are accessible to a wide audience.

00:01:34:13 - 00:01:53:02

Unknown

So exactly like you say, Mike, the great thing about Malcolm is he's got such a broad range of topics that he dives into that some of the secrets, some of the tips, some of the concepts, applicable over so many different areas of life. they are I mean, this is also he's so good at this. He's mastered it so much.

00:01:53:04 - 00:02:12:21

Unknown

I think this is why he's the first author we've done a master series on. Right. I you are right. You're right. This is indeed the first author that we've done a master series on, which I think just speaks volumes, doesn't it? To the, the the respect, I guess, that we have for this work. But also he's just fun to listen to, isn't he?

00:02:12:23 - 00:02:46:21

Unknown

he's he's like super bright, lively. And I think, he, he's almost been a voice of the generation of people that have been working for 15 or the last 30 years. So his books, particularly Tipping Point and Outliers, seem to really be these beacons for fresh new thinking. And he's just continued to challenge the status quo, to be curious and to tell beautiful, interesting, odd, exciting stories that we all really love.

00:02:46:21 - 00:03:10:10

Unknown

So we felt that he was due his master series. So if you're curious about thinking different, if you're curious about how to produce great work just like Gladwell has, then this is the master series for you. So the big question is Mark, having written so many books and having given so many talks, where do you start a journey into the work of Malcolm Gladwell?

00:03:10:12 - 00:03:32:11

Unknown

A very, very tough decision, Mike. That's the truth of it. Like you say, he's got so much content out there that you and I have either explored before or, you know, discovered since the shows that we've done on on Malcolm before, but I thought an applicable introduction for today's master series is a familiar story that maybe a lot of us have heard around David and Goliath.

00:03:32:13 - 00:03:58:19

Unknown

And, Malcolm has this fantastic way of breaking down a very, very complex idea into something that's a little bit more accessible for us. So let's hear from his book, David and Goliath, this idea and this insight around shifting our thinking. What I'm trying to get people to understand is that our conventional notions of disadvantage and advantage aren't accurate, that we've called lots of things disadvantages, when in fact it's more complicated than that.

00:03:58:21 - 00:04:21:04

Unknown

And so the reason I started with that story, and also I retell the story of David and Goliath and start the book, because if you look at the story closely, everything you think was a disadvantage about David actually is. And and Goliath is not what he looks like. He looks like this indomitable giant. In fact, he probably had a medical condition called acromegaly, which is that this is sort of a side thing.

00:04:21:05 - 00:04:45:14

Unknown

You bring up medicine in the Bible. Dude, what do you do? It is hilarious because if you timidity, you start digging into these things. You discovered these little pockets have been arguing about these things for years. For 50 years, endocrinologists have been arguing about whether Goliath had a tumor on his pituitary gland. And we should explain his height, because when you have a tumor in your between two gland it over, you will produce human growth hormone.

00:04:45:14 - 00:05:07:20

Unknown

And you get really Andre the Giant had this condition seven foot four, a seven foot four. Yeah. But one of the side effects is that it can constrict your optic nerves and leave you largely with very, very limited eyesight. So the one of the explanations for why Goliath behaves so strangely, and why he doesn't perceive that David is not intending to fight it.

00:05:07:21 - 00:05:27:22

Unknown

I mean, David comes down the mountain and he's got no sword and no armor. He clearly is not intending to fight a sword fight, and Goliath just sits there like he's oblivious. Well, the answer is maybe he can only see this far, right? So it changes everything and you realize, wait a minute. The giant is weighed down by 100 pounds of armor and can't see anything, right?

00:05:27:23 - 00:05:56:17

Unknown

He's like like this. Right. So do I do more with that story? But it's all about this. Trying to get people to take a step back and understand that, we couldn't give up because we have these weak or feel powerless because we have these, empty definitions or flawed definitions of advantage. Well, that just felt like a little bit of a introduction to challenging assumption.

00:05:56:17 - 00:06:23:13

Unknown

It took me almost back to a lot of the mental models that we have studied. You know, firstly, the work of Shane Parrish, celebrating Elon Musk's use of first principles, second order thinking, Ockham's and Hanlon's razors like there's a ton of work out there to help us think that. but what a beautiful vignette. What a great little story to remind us like to challenge assumptions.

00:06:23:15 - 00:06:44:09

Unknown

And this is really important for me because, you know, I've definitely been a victim of wishful thinking. I hear an idea and all that could be great. And I'm off to the races, right? Yeah, but what I've learned in life is in any idea that there can be a lot of underlying assumptions that you need to be true.

00:06:44:11 - 00:07:14:08

Unknown

in order for that idea to work. So it sounds good, but in execution. And this is the difference, right? Ideas and execution. When you go to execute it, you realize, oh, hang on a second, all of these things that would be required for your idea to be successful don't exist. A great example I'm reminded of in my life is I started an internet radio station in 1997, and initially, you know, we were all very excited.

00:07:14:08 - 00:07:36:01

Unknown

It was very pioneering, got lots of listeners. But what we failed to take into account that, you know, you need to pay the rent, right? And we were going out into the world saying, hey, advertise on an internet radio station. And at the time, in 1997, most people were like, what is the internet? And we're like, oh, you don't know.

00:07:36:01 - 00:08:04:24

Unknown

It's this new team. And they're like, are we advertising on the internet? And we were like, well, you're kind of advertising on an internet radio station. You can have radio on the internet. And we nobody understood it. Now, in the end, this project ended. It wasn't viable. It was certainly very desired. Hirable and when you had taken us back to when we had this idea to launch an internet radio station, we were in love with the internet.

00:08:04:24 - 00:08:25:14

Unknown

We went, we discovered it only a year ago, in 1996, and my co-founder and I, we were like, so fired up, well, this is going to be huge. We we were drinking the kool aid, but the rest of the world had yet to find the internet at that time. Now, this is a long way of saying I learned a lot from that lesson.

00:08:25:14 - 00:08:53:00

Unknown

Like challenging your bias, challenging your assumptions, and having the capacity to go. Hang on a second. I want to challenge this idea, and that naturally leads you to having mental models, you know, looking at first principles, second order thinking and so on. The revelation to me in the work you and I have done together, Mark, is that there are a ton of mental models out there that are available to us.

00:08:53:00 - 00:09:15:16

Unknown

And what Malcolm Gladwell has done is shown us a classic example of just challenging an assumption to reveal a different point of view. Now, the fact for me is that you can do this exercise and in irregardless of where you end up, the fact that you just don't jump on the train and go with it, but that you challenge him, maybe you meet somewhere in the middle, right?

00:09:15:16 - 00:09:41:03

Unknown

Mark. That's okay. But the fact that you can see there's more than one road leading to Rome, I think that's the key insight. What do you think? Yeah, look, I love that. And I think it's always fun to hear, stories when people with status quo are challenged. You know, I can't imagine how unusual it must have been pitching to people saying, hey, come on, this is this thing you just got to understand.

00:09:41:03 - 00:10:08:12

Unknown

Believe in us. Right? The thing that speaks to me out of that clip with Malcolm actually, and it was this concept of, like you say, assumptions, you know, and looking at a problem or a challenge and seeing them as this big, perhaps bumbling giant who that seems insurmountable. And what that reminds me of is how a lot of us will look at maybe an obstacle that's coming down the track.

00:10:08:12 - 00:10:28:03

Unknown

Maybe it's, you know, we always talk about, like an email bomb or we always talk about a difficult conversation for me, when I'm I'm thinking of a kind of metaphorically, I guess, when I see a big challenge or a big obstacle, I immediately jump to assumptions and think, this is going to be a nightmare because of x, y, z, so-and-so's involved.

00:10:28:06 - 00:10:52:02

Unknown

Oh, we don't get on that. Well, you know, I can't trust that team with timelines or it's no way you're going to be commercially viable. Instead of thinking it's a complete roadblock, which then would lead me down, you know, maybe a Daniel Pink regret and what do I wish I'd done in my life and instead, you know, go off to the Giants, maybe that's where I'm hearing from this.

00:10:52:02 - 00:11:21:14

Unknown

Actually, I'm kind of being relieved, I suppose, for Malcolm. And he's asking and really reminding us. Okay, well, if there's a big challenge. Yeah, maybe have a look at it. Maybe not for weaknesses, but I think there's both a prejudice piece as well as a how do we look at it as an opportunity. Well, I think, even to take your thoughts further, there is an opportunity for us to actually just pause and consider anything fundamental.

00:11:21:16 - 00:12:12:00

Unknown

Okay. Have I really thought this through? Right. Yeah. And I think everything is up for consideration. And if you have mental models you can quickly process through. And I think it's all in service of great decision making. Right. We want to make better decisions. For example, I take you back to 1997 launching our internet radio venture. If I had asked myself not only how do we make a compelling station for the audience, but a compelling offering for advertisers, we may not have even launched, because we would have realized this is so hot, or we would have said we need to generate sufficient advertising or sponsorship commitment before we launch, because we soon realized, oh

00:12:12:00 - 00:12:31:01

Unknown

my gosh, this is super popular. But then here was the irony, man. Back in the days, the hosting was so expensive. The more popular we were, the more revenue we needed to make. But no one would ever take this. They didn't know how to advertise on the internet. And so it kind of decelerated this doom loop where like, yeah, this is crazy.

00:12:31:01 - 00:13:00:12

Unknown

When the popularity we get, the more we're running out of cash. to but we hadn't considered we had not considered this other side of the equation. And I think it's really powerful when you it's sort of very, almost empowering when you realize that you can actually consider things and if you challenge fundamental assumptions and think them through for yourself or in business, you can often reveal opportunity, right?

00:13:00:14 - 00:13:28:00

Unknown

For example. That's right. If you think about the commitment from Elon Musk to battery technology and EVs, it was way before any of the, combustion engine motor companies were even considering, and he was he just thought about things in a different way. And that's the power of what you can do, as you say, thinking twice, challenging assumptions and knowing that you have the chance to do that, you don't have to go blindly on.

00:13:28:05 - 00:13:52:10

Unknown

You can make good decisions. And on that note, Mark, do you know of a group of talented people that do make good decisions? Oh, you know what, Mike? I don't even have to think very long about that, because I can guarantee you I know a batch, a group, a collection of individuals from around the world who are making one of their very, very good decisions day in, day out.

00:13:52:10 - 00:14:12:19

Unknown

They're probably not even thinking twice as Malcolm Gladwell would encourage them to do. But that reason is Mike, because they know for a fact that this is worth, let's say, a cup of coffee a month. And that is all about our members, members who are enjoying today's episode on Malcolm Gladwell. So please, without further ado, bubble welcome in Bob.

00:14:12:19 - 00:14:39:07

Unknown

Candy. Yep. Mom. Marjan. Hello, Rodrigo. Lisa. And said Mr.. Bonjour, Paul Berg and Councilman Joe Christian, Samuel and Barbara, Andre, Chris, Deborah Lassiter, Steve, Craig, Daniel and Andrew, Ravi, Yvette, Karen and Raul, Nicole. Ingram, Dirk and Harry Van Carter, Marco, jet, Roger, Steph, Gabby, raw and Emeline, all of whom are annual members. Thank you guys so much for your continued support and love.

00:14:39:09 - 00:15:05:06

Unknown

Along with James and Way, Christophe, Denise, Laura, Smitty, Corey Gaylor, Bertram and Daniela, Mike, Dan Antonio, Zachary Austin, Fred Llorens and Ola, Andy, Diana, Margie, Chris and Ron are three brand new individuals who have joined us on most series. Thank you so much for your recent support and thank you all of our subscribers and members, for continuing to help keep the moonshots lights on.

00:15:05:06 - 00:15:26:04

Unknown

Because Mike, much like you experienced back in the 90s, you're right. The more popular things are, the more expensive it takes to host. Yes, and I know they've been practicing hard and improving themselves and learning out loud together. And that's what being a member of the Moonshots Master series is all about. You get this free podcast as well as the regular weekly podcast.

00:15:26:04 - 00:15:55:05

Unknown

So we're very grateful to you. And as you go out there and you work on things and you invest ten, 10,000 hours to be the best version of yourself, the great news is that we now have the evidence back to prove that that hard work, that dedication, that discipline is totally worth it. That's right. So let's jump straight into the next clip from Malcolm Gladwell, who's going to help us understand the idea in the concept of getting better and becoming master after 10,000 hours.

00:15:56:08 - 00:16:18:13

Unknown

And you talk about the 10,000 hour rule that it's not just a matter of, well, this person's a genius, this person has a amazing ability. It is actual practice and hard work, you know, so a bunch a group of really brilliant psychologists in in the field of expertise research have sat down and tried to figure out how long do you have to work at something before you become really good.

00:16:18:15 - 00:16:42:03

Unknown

Right. And the answer seems to be it's an extraordinary, consistent answer in an incredible number of fields. And that is, you need to have practice to have apprenticed for 10,000 hours before you get good. So every great classical composer, without exception, composes for at least ten years before they write their masterwork, Mozart is composing at 11, but he's composing garbage at 11.

00:16:42:03 - 00:17:11:19

Unknown

I mean, he doesn't produce something great until he's 22 or 23. Concerto number nine, I think, to 71. if I asked you, how long did it take you when you were doing this job before you felt comfortable and good at what you were doing ten years or ten years? I same with me, right? I mean, it's an incredibly consistent finding, and it's really important because it says that we are far too impatient with people when we when we when we assess whether someone has got what it takes to do a certain job, we always want to make that assessment after six months or a year or and that's ridiculous.

00:17:11:19 - 00:17:31:03

Unknown

You know, the kinds of jobs we have people do today are sufficiently complex that they require a long time to reach mastery. And what we should be doing is setting up institutions and structures that allow people to spend the time and effort to reach mastery, not judging them prematurely. What is the takeaway? What is the lesson for people who want to be more successful?

00:17:31:03 - 00:17:54:15

Unknown

I mean, what is? In some ways, it's good news that they don't have to be geniuses. Yeah. Although I've been you know, I'm very anxious that this book not be seen as a self-help book, but be seen as a kind of community help book, because lots of the things, but I really want people to do is start thinking about how can we, as a society, build institutions that provide opportunities to work hard.

00:17:54:16 - 00:17:57:15

Unknown

It's a fascinating book. Outliers. Malcolm, thanks. Thank you very,

00:17:57:15 - 00:18:36:24

Unknown

Matt, this is really getting into some moonshots thinking, isn't it? It's just discipline, hard work, and there is just no such thing as overnight success, right? No way. Much like we've said on the moonshot show before, Mike, particularly through our sports series, you know, this idea of overnight success, whether that's overnight six packs, like a lot of us would want, or whether it's going straight from zero to having a million bucks in your in your wallet, I think this is a real vast reminder that these things take time, not just, you know, you come out and you already know the stuff.

00:18:37:01 - 00:19:06:11

Unknown

And it's interesting, isn't it, because we have seen this lesson confirmed so many times, like if you think about, the early days of famous companies like Amazon, Apple, Starbucks and Nike, like the guys at Nike was selling shoes at the back of a car, right at track meets right? Yeah. the Dyson, you know, 10,000 maybe. Maybe not ours.

00:19:06:11 - 00:19:36:13

Unknown

But I would probably argue it's probably similar 10,000 prototypes. It was crazy. You know what it was? It was like 1064, 1264 prototypes before he got it right. Thomas Edison famously said, oh, I didn't have 10,000 failures. I had 10,000, ways of getting closer to the answer. Right? Yes. Talked about the light bulb. Right. I mean, I think the other thing is we see this parallel in the sports world as well.

00:19:36:15 - 00:20:00:09

Unknown

You look at Tom Brady, right? What was so amazing about him even compared to Jordan. So you looked at Jordan when he came out of college and he just looked like an Adonis, right? He was an athlete in every pixel of his being. But the interesting thing about Brady is he didn't look he looked a bit tall, a little bit cumbersome.

00:20:00:11 - 00:20:42:08

Unknown

He was like lowly ranked in the draft and he just hard work, persistence. And he was ready. And he maintained that through this incredible dedication. Right. So what are we seeing is whether you go in business, famous authors like Gladwell, whether you go to sports that you must be prepared to grind due to out. And what I find really interesting, Mark, is this is almost to to Gladwell's point, we're in such a hyper speed way of living.

00:20:42:10 - 00:21:15:08

Unknown

Does anyone get given the chance to invest that time? It's like they get discounted and counted out. You know, 2000. Like you haven't got this after ten hours bowling, you know. Good. Right? Well, I think there's a lot of businesses as we've covered in in some of our shows what we've got and KPIs and so on. That will place a lot of short term, analysis and feedback moments and so on in order to help, you know, the individual grow.

00:21:15:10 - 00:21:41:12

Unknown

So I think there's there's a great insight around coaching advice, is always very valuable. But at the same time, I really like where Malcolm's coming from here, because if you and I were to open up our microphones, hit record and stop, you know, a new podcast, we'd probably benefited from the might be nearing 10,000 hours now. I'm not sure, actually, but we might be a lot further down that line.

00:21:41:14 - 00:22:03:07

Unknown

And I think that's great testament to the idea of whether you're going into create product or service. You will benefit from the time that you've that you've been, invested. I think also there's a great reassurance. And again, we've we've referenced this before as well, this idea of failure, this idea of sunk cost. Yeah. More often than not, it's probably worth it.

00:22:03:13 - 00:22:25:10

Unknown

You know, like with your internet radio station, there was so much mastery that you would have got out of that experience based on maybe the things that didn't quite work. Yeah, we shouldn't have rushed it. We shouldn't have rushed it. That was to be the big thing. there. You know, it's crazy, Mikey. You know, you talking about staying the course, right?

00:22:25:12 - 00:22:48:20

Unknown

Do you realize that, like, there is, like, they argue the numbers on podcasts, but a lot of podcasts don't even make it to ten episodes before they die. So I want you to imagine, let's just say roughly half of them don't make it to double digits. Then another half of those remaining don't make it past two years. Wow.

00:22:48:22 - 00:23:18:04

Unknown

So just think about that, right? how few make it to 3 or 4 years and how long it takes to master the production of of a show. Think about, if you're if you've got a hobby, how long it takes. Let's say it was an art hobby. Let's imagine how long it takes before you can do a great sketch, a great painting, you know, or if you do carpentry or whatever your art and craft is.

00:23:18:06 - 00:23:48:16

Unknown

I think what is interesting to me is the reflection of giving yourself time. And, makes me wonder, Mark, what's something in life you think you don't give yourself enough time to master? yeah. I've always been a little bit dismissive of learning a language. I think that's something that I've always started doing and then probably fallen off within the first ten hours, let alone 10,000 hours.

00:23:48:18 - 00:24:12:04

Unknown

If I'm brutally honest with myself. Likewise, there's probably more work and research I could do, day in, day out based on changing situations in the market. So really staying on, having my finger on the pulse of everything that's that's going on is probably another area. so really it's it's just the discipline, I suppose the mastery that I need maybe Mike is just that little bit of discipline.

00:24:12:06 - 00:24:48:19

Unknown

Yeah, yeah. What about you? So I used to. I'm totally with you on needing the discipline. Like, if I look characteristically, I would give everything a couple of years, and then I would jump again, right? Yeah. But what's interesting is the things that I stick at is noticing the deep level of mastery, like, for example, doing, rapid prototyping and product discovery workshops.

00:24:48:21 - 00:25:11:18

Unknown

I've been doing those now for over ten years, and I did one recently, and I just noticed how comfortable I was and how, challenging it felt for a lot of the other people working on the project. But I was like, I had to remind myself how I did do did start doing this a long time ago. So why?

00:25:11:20 - 00:25:37:02

Unknown

But it struck me how all the others found this very, intense and challenging. And I'm like, yeah, no problem. Like that. That's ten years of work right there, man. Yeah. And and I but it isn't it I it blows me away at 48. How few times I've stuck with things for ten years. Yet I can clearly see now the benefit of doing so.

00:25:37:07 - 00:25:59:04

Unknown

So you know, I'm going to stick to moonshots for ten years, that's for sure. But it's crazy to think if it takes that long, how many things I've abandoned way before the ten year my way before the 10,000, man. That's crazy, right? Yeah. Isn't it interesting? You're right. When we break it down, what are the consistent things that you're still doing after ten years?

00:25:59:06 - 00:26:20:14

Unknown

Mine will be obviously, elements such as? You know, maybe, thinking creatively or running, obviously, learning how to communicate better, you know, small things like that. Also not small things. They actually become the big things. Yes. You know, you think that they're just kind of day to day actions, but really they're any day to day actions because I've made them.

00:26:20:20 - 00:26:41:00

Unknown

Yes, actions. But you're right, I learned I was learning to sail just a couple of years ago, something again, that I probably stopped too soon. Right. And therefore I hadn't given it the right due diligence to get out and give it a crack. It's a wonderful reminder, isn't it, when you really compartmentalize it and put a number, a quantity, quantifiable number against it?

00:26:41:00 - 00:27:07:08

Unknown

Yeah. You think, what have I done? Have I done this? Should I be doing it more? It's hard to argue it. Yeah. And I think about running like you mentioned that I've only been running for four years. Right. It feels like a lifetime. But I'm like, wow, I've got so much to learn and I know this already. After four years, how much better I am at, hydration building programs, knowing where my body's at.

00:27:07:10 - 00:27:30:01

Unknown

So much so that I had this funny situation where somebody who actually runs, as much, if not more than me, called me for some advice, about nutrition for a marathon. And what I noticed when we were chatting is like, oh, you know, I would do these electrolytes. I would look at these gels for energy and was we were talking about like what they needed.

00:27:30:01 - 00:27:49:14

Unknown

It reminded me of the way, my friend Jeremy spoke to me when he coached me for my first marathon, and I was like, Like, I'm only four years into it, but already my level of mastery well, I wouldn't call it mastery, but my level of education understanding was so much higher than what it was four years ago.

00:27:49:16 - 00:28:17:00

Unknown

So imagine what it's going to be in six years when I finally get that ten 10,000 hours of running under my belt. And I think, I think the big lesson for me here is stay the course so much, you know, it's so easy to switch. I mean, it's a classic thing if you look at, Gen Z or millennials TV, most of them, they're chopping and changing jobs every couple of years.

00:28:17:02 - 00:28:49:04

Unknown

So you wonder about how much that interrupts their path to mastery, right? Well, absolutely. And as you were chatting there, I was just writing down a few concepts or I guess, milestones that strike me as paths during those 10,000 hours. And, you know, you I think you hit the nail right there, Mike. You've got to feel good. You've got to get that confidence and then the ability to teach, you know, or at least having educate be educated enough to impart some wisdom, like you said before, then becoming the master.

00:28:49:09 - 00:29:24:17

Unknown

And you're right, when you're changing jobs so quickly, I don't think you have the time. You might get to a point where you feel good and maybe confident behind the tools, but you won't necessarily be in a position where you would have taught somebody or had to refine or change something. So you kind of do that with time, really, and then you think it's like we're presented with so much information of overnight success side hustles in one month that we almost our appetite for patience and long term discipline go out the window.

00:29:24:19 - 00:29:57:03

Unknown

It's like there's so many signals around this. Everything's instant, instant, instant. Yet mastery is ten years, 10,000 hours or whatever it ends up being for you. But if you're expecting breakthrough results in ten days and we know the lesson is ten years, yeah, you have such wildly unrealistic expectations. And this is why the classic diet and weight, loss program is so evil.

00:29:57:05 - 00:30:19:22

Unknown

Because people want to lose 30 pounds in 30 days. And yeah, if you want to keep that weight off, you know you'd be better off making that a three year program where you modify permanently your diet, your sleep, your exercise. So that is a long lasting change. But we see I think this is what we're at war with.

00:30:19:22 - 00:30:49:20

Unknown

Patience. the lack of patience, the lack of desire to stay the long path and enjoy the fruits of ten years, the mastery that is so. Well, It's right. Yeah, yeah. how good will that be? You know, and actually, how good is it when you've got to a point of 10,000 hours? Well, what I also heard from that clip, a parting thought, Mike, was obviously we want to try and be patient with ourselves.

00:30:49:22 - 00:31:10:15

Unknown

We want to try and stay the course. We want to try and invest the amount of time in order to become a master of whatever task, hobby, objective we're trying to uncover or skill. Well, Markham was also calling out was patience with others. Yeah. So when you have maybe a colleague or a friend or maybe a family member who's struggling a little bit, put yourself in those shoes, remember?

00:31:10:15 - 00:31:28:10

Unknown

Hey, if I understood if I can make a podcast, well, it's because we've been doing it for a few years. If somebody else is struggling. Okay, well, that's because they haven't. And it's a great, signpost I guess, isn't it? It's a great signpost to remember. Everybody's on that journey. The hero's journey is different for every so true.

00:31:28:10 - 00:31:55:07

Unknown

And you have to be a little bit I mean, we're we're ten gentle right now, but I think that's we're just finding some inner compassion for others who haven't found their thing. that's a delicate balance, because sometimes you need to push, people along. sometimes there isn't a fit. but I think, you know, having that compassion and being just totally upfront about those those intentions is, is the best, best way to help others.

00:31:55:09 - 00:32:24:15

Unknown

Now. That's right. If you, sort of interested in this, this mastery theme, head over to Moonshot Studio. There's a ton of shows. Talk about mastery. you mentioned James Dyson. That's a great episode. If you head to Moonshot Studio, listen to the James Dyson episode. That is someone who was willing to do the 10,000 hours. But, something we can learn from Gladwell is all about how to think and how to write.

00:32:24:15 - 00:32:44:07

Unknown

And, Mark, I think you've got just the clip for us. Yep. That's right, I'm Mike. Mike, Malcolm. There's so many names in today's show in the master series, if you want me to. If you think I'm like Malcolm Gladwell, I'm going to take that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll call you Malcolm Gladwell from now on. So, Malcolm, we've got a clip.

00:32:44:11 - 00:32:54:23

Unknown

We've got a clip from Malcolm, coming up now, which, to get straight into it, to stop being tangential, it's all about getting into an understanding. Malcolm's approach to writing

00:32:54:23 - 00:33:12:17

Unknown

this question, how does he find the story, which you finally have told us? Yeah, I mean, I, I try isn't in the kind of forward to the volume to answer this question because I do get it all the time, and there isn't a neat pat answer.

00:33:12:19 - 00:33:31:04

Unknown

but I, as I say in the, in the, fold, it's about teaching yourself that everything is interesting. because our natural inclination as humans is when we're confronted with things, we immediately try to edit. We have to edit, right? And we have to sort of dismiss things and say, I'm not interested. I'm not interested in that.

00:33:31:06 - 00:33:50:08

Unknown

And as a writer, I think you have to, if you have to write as many words as I do, is if you have David Remnick hanging over your head demanding that you turn in story instead of story, you have to reverse that very common human desire to edit and just to surrender and just to say everything is interesting.

00:33:50:08 - 00:34:09:10

Unknown

All I have to do is show it is. I tell is is ask questions is follow up is if you get trapped next to someone on an airplane and they start talking to you, you have to resist the impulse to say, I don't want to hear it. I have to say, well, actually, you know, maybe there's a chance they'll and and believe me, I've heard things from people in airplanes that have, like, perked up my ears.

00:34:09:10 - 00:34:24:24

Unknown

And all of us have a kind of blind spot about our own stories and, we don't realize what's interesting about our own lives. And I count myself among them. You know, it takes a an outsider to see sometimes what's beautiful or interesting in, in some.

00:34:24:24 - 00:34:32:11

Unknown

What a great little anecdote. In curiosity, Mark. I like that one a lot.

00:34:32:16 - 00:35:00:24

Unknown

That speaks to me quite a lot in a couple of different ways. Mike, how does that stand out to you? Well, the fact that he's prepared to take make the effort to see what's interesting in an idea or all ideas what's it's almost, sort of he a believer in, humanity. Like, everyone has an interesting story to tell, and he's quite interested in finding out what that is.

00:35:01:01 - 00:35:28:20

Unknown

And he's right is, you know, we often forget what's special about our own story, but we may be right others off because we're trying to filter out things. But he's saying, you know, find that based on curiosity, isn't he? Yeah. I love that phrase. Everything is interesting. I'm actually I'm I'm starting to look in the background, some of the mantras that I have each day, and that one's going straight in there.

00:35:28:20 - 00:35:52:24

Unknown

Mike. because I think it's a really valuable and very easy to remember, behavior. I suppose when, you know, stuff gets in the way, maybe as Malcolm calls out somebody trying to talk to you and, you know, you're distracted, there's other moments for me when I'm, I get frustrated with the time something takes instead of being annoyed.

00:35:52:24 - 00:36:08:23

Unknown

Let's say you're waiting for a coffee instead of being annoyed at the slowness of of staff doing whatever it is that they do. The thing that I can do quite proactively is think, okay, well, maybe this is an opportunity for me to learn a little bit about being a barista. That's rude. What do they do? How long do they take on the milk?

00:36:09:04 - 00:36:45:00

Unknown

How long do they do that? Or just enjoy the beautiful sky that's around? Yeah, right. Just enjoy. Be interested in the pattern of the of the clouds. I think it's it's a really valuable mantra that is going straight into my list. It's look, I think, it's a, it's an interesting one that we can all take from, but you can also see that it's a directly informing how he's able to write across so many topics, because he kind of does the business angle, the kind of social cultural angle, the psychology angle.

00:36:45:02 - 00:37:14:20

Unknown

He's work really does span. I mean, it's unique. I mean, I think he's even broader than Seth Godin, isn't he? Yeah, I think he's written more books, actually. I think, oh, no, although Seth had done 21 plus, so I'll have to my eye brain is is still behind but you know, but where I'm going with this is you can if you want to know any insight that powers the Malcolm Gladwell success.

00:37:14:22 - 00:37:51:08

Unknown

I believe it's this curiosity want he's prepared to look at things challenge that says quote, he's very curious to find the story that is there. And I think that's really powerful for us. Maybe if you're feeling like everything's a bit boring, that might be your curiosity is calling it. Yeah, I think you might be right. And another phrase that he shared in that, clip there, Mike, obviously specifically to to writing, but it spoke to me a little bit with regards to how I think and interpret the things that are happening day to day is stop editing life.

00:37:51:10 - 00:38:21:09

Unknown

So instead of always thinking, okay, well, how do I, you know, maybe compress things, how do I interpret things, and so on. I think, again, we're starting to see in each of these clips don't have regret. Challenges are kind of like giants. That area around patience and this idea of hard work speaks to me again here. You know, you're really understanding from this idea of being curious and trying to avoid, let's call it short falling or editing or cutting down on life.

00:38:21:11 - 00:38:48:20

Unknown

Those are opportunities to kind of have more of a narrow vision. Yes. But I actually quite like where Malcolm, the way I'm interpreting it at least, is Malcolm's asking us to kind of be interested, be open. Yes. In order to to gravitate towards those interesting things. One of the things that I do to create that curiosity is at 430 on a Friday afternoon, I have 30 minutes of open reading that can only be from my physical bookshelf.

00:38:48:22 - 00:39:11:17

Unknown

Oh that's fun. Yeah, that's a nice pattern. That's good. So just grab whatever takes you and it's not planned. It's not for a project. It's not for anything. I'm working on a client. It's just what's on the bookshelf. Mike, what grabs your attention? Like, one time I picked up the artwork from Blade Runner. other times I've picked up, data is beautiful book, and all sorts of other interesting things.

00:39:11:19 - 00:39:40:15

Unknown

And. But what's really nice about it is it made me realize, Mark, how I am so edited, like I've got a backlog of articles that I'm reading for work, backlog of book summaries and everything for the show, and then I'm like, oh, I just need something open and curious. Yeah, yeah, well, look, I love that. And for all members who are thinking, well, yeah, you know, I don't have the space for bookshelf or whatever, the thing that I do is, is I pop down to the library.

00:39:40:15 - 00:40:04:15

Unknown

Yeah, I go to the library once every couple of weeks. I actually take out another book or two and it, you know, not only saves a couple of pennies on the old Kindle, but what it enables me to do is kind of test drive and see, okay, well, this is an area that I am interested in. Maybe it's gardening, maybe it's sailing, whatever it might be, and it's fun to then enable yourself to go on that 10,000 hour journey from that point.

00:40:04:15 - 00:40:27:20

Unknown

You know, you're right. Data is beautiful book. As a prime example, I can imagine opening any of those pages up, finding a little insight, and then going down a little bit of a rabbit hole. So what an amazing opportunity to create time in your week to enable yourself to be inspired, to stay curious, put that into practice, but then also create a new avenue, perhaps for you to go down and start thinking about.

00:40:27:22 - 00:40:52:22

Unknown

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, you know, we've talked about challenging the status quo questioning. We've talked about 10,000 hours. We've talked about curiosity. Just when you think we're all tapped out, a Malcolm Gladwell mark, once again, you got some more gold for us. What do you have to bring the show home? Look, Mike, this one, it was a, a slight late entry because it's just so powerful.

00:40:52:24 - 00:41:48:19

Unknown

It's a nice, great ending to today's episode to master series episode on Malcolm Gladwell. This time understanding from Malcolm what we should try and be doing each day, and how there's no small endeavor. I think a lot about work and effort and how important effort is to me in my own life and in my estimations of others, that what I want to see from myself and from the people around me is I want to see some level of commitment and that what I as I get older, what I'm less and less, I'm going to sound very, very 19th century when I say it, as I've become less and less tolerant of idleness.

00:41:48:21 - 00:42:11:23

Unknown

And I don't mean I mean that in a very, very kind of specific way. And that is you have to care about something. I don't care what it is you have to care about something, and you have to make a sacrifice in pursuit of that thing you care about. and you have to try, oh my gosh. have a mission.

00:42:11:23 - 00:42:47:00

Unknown

Be committed. You have to try. You have to, like, be fighting for something and make. The reason this stands out for me is when you find the thing that you're fighting for. You can find an energy reserve that helps you when you're feeling flat. You still have the capacity to power through. When you're feeling frustrated, you keep going, and it's very hard when you lack that purpose, that that mission and that vision.

00:42:47:02 - 00:43:20:09

Unknown

When the when the mountains come, when the speed humps come, they sort of block you. But if you're committed to something, if you're fighting for something, you can power through, how do you experience this? Yeah, I think in the moments of my life when I've felt untethered and lost in either the wind or the waves, it's because that commitment to the single minded goal or mission or vision, or the reason why hasn't been had heard to.

00:43:20:13 - 00:43:42:01

Unknown

Yes. You know, it's either because it didn't exist and, you know, it was blindly walking around trying to figure my way out. or it's because it's something I've I've either accidentally or intentionally ignored. Yeah. Where I go against the better judgment and think, you know what? No, I'm going to risk this. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

00:43:42:03 - 00:44:11:04

Unknown

But the area for me, when ever I've, you know, maybe struggled is when that mission hasn't really aligned specifically with where I'm trying to get to. Yes. Which is why I think we need to write down and talk about and share our purpose. because that helps keep it front and center. And then, you know, when you're off track, like, for me, helping others to help themselves is really like that deep mission that I have.

00:44:11:04 - 00:44:36:00

Unknown

I going to be the coach, the mentor, the helper that I wish I had had in my early years. So if I can be that every day to someone somehow, then I'm on track when I'm like floating off of that. Yeah, that that rings alarm bells. So a diary, having a bucket list, reviewing your mission, your purpose statement, saying it out loud.

00:44:36:00 - 00:45:01:19

Unknown

I think those are ways we keep on track. How do you now, having been in the Valley of Darkness, Mark and I assume having a center there help from said valley. How do you keep it front and center? Well reflection like you say, big time reflection, both privately as well as publicly. I've, I've very much put into practice, probably over the last six, 12 or so months.

00:45:01:21 - 00:45:28:01

Unknown

I've, I've really actively tried to be much more transparent and a better communicator with those around me, with the specific in, sorry, with the specific goal or the specific intention of not only trying to bring out the best in those around me and myself, but also hold myself accountable. So let's say it's a big project with work, something really exciting, or maybe something that's not exciting, but it's a bit of a pain.

00:45:28:03 - 00:45:52:14

Unknown

What I try and do now is I'll talk about it with others, because I know that through the act of talking about it, I'm committing myself to eventually having to answer the question, oh, how did it go? So when you and I found that's particularly helpful when working remote, because sometimes it's not so much a lack of ownership, but sometimes there's a lack of, a deliverable to a certain extent.

00:45:52:16 - 00:46:14:03

Unknown

You know, you're wanting to partner up with those around you, which can sometimes be hard. So for me, when I've particularly explored this recently, over the past, like I say, a year or so, I found it overwhelmingly positive. People are very interested. People want to help. Maybe they are necessarily in the same industry or vertical, but they're still very, very curious.

00:46:14:05 - 00:46:38:17

Unknown

And that, for me is a fantastic proof point that I might be going down the right direction or it might be something that, you know, if it's not particularly well received or, you know, I'm getting lots of pushback, I think, okay, well, maybe I need to revisit this as well. So this reflection, this idea of really overcommitting and sharing as much as you can with others, takes time.

00:46:38:19 - 00:47:02:05

Unknown

But that's where I've been testing and learning and exploring. Yes. And I think it works, right? Yeah. Of course. Because if you think about the the science of that, it's just like writing something down and speaking about it gives it an extra dimension, right? Yeah. Yeah, it brings it into the real well because we can kind of get like all kind of in the monkey mind and it's all washing around up there.

00:47:02:07 - 00:47:31:08

Unknown

But the deliberate act of writing and speaking and sharing and discussing brings things more clear. It brings a certain rigidity to them. It becomes a living, breathing thing. It's just like when I ran my first marathon, I had 42km on a post-it above my computer that I looked at every day, and somehow I programed myself that no matter what pain I was in, in that marathon, I was running 42 and there was no secret about it.

00:47:31:10 - 00:47:57:17

Unknown

It was out there. Well, another individual who's very into the, manifestation is Jim Carrey. Yep. You know, when we when we dove into him on, on the show, he as we all might know, is really into the belief that he can manifest whatever he desires if he thinks about it hard enough. And obviously he's not a magician, you know, he's not some wizard.

00:47:57:19 - 00:48:16:21

Unknown

Instead, what he's, showcasing is if I really want it, I will apply myself and achieve it. Which I think Mike is exactly where you're going with that post-it note. And you're totally right when it comes to trying. In my case, let's say it's talk about a new job. Maybe it's a new project at work, whatever it might be.

00:48:16:21 - 00:48:36:24

Unknown

When I'm sharing that with others, I'm trying to do something quite similar, which is make it real, you know, make it a substantial thing. Then not only do I hold myself accountable to, but it means I have a reason to apply myself. It's like booking a race and your in your diary so that you can work out and get it.

00:48:37:01 - 00:49:09:22

Unknown

Yeah. And listen, we're always recalibrating our goals and visions and how we see ourselves, but I think having something to fight for, something to get you out of bed, is critical because then you're without this, then you're just kind of flapping around in the wind, getting committed and really fighting for something and wanting to truly make an impact on those around you, the world around you that is going to give you the vigor, the energy to, make things happen every single day.

00:49:09:24 - 00:49:40:13

Unknown

Mike, we've covered a lot on this show. definitely. I mean, it was so symbolic of the work of Gladwell himself. We went all over the place. Look, and I think that's one of the joys of Gladwell's work, Tony. He really does invite us to go all over the place. and Mike, I think based on those for quite meaty, quite helpful clips for me, the one that's really standing out still is this idea that everything's interesting.

00:49:40:15 - 00:49:59:15

Unknown

you know, just being open minded. I think I can apply that not only in the way that I might hang out and talk to other people. Maybe it's people on the plane, on the bus, but it's also about, topics of interest, work that's taking place. You can be interested and curious as much as you want, but it's up to you to make the decision.

00:49:59:18 - 00:50:24:07

Unknown

Right? So for me, that's that's what I'm leaning into. Everything is interesting. What about you, Mike? Which one? Standing out? It's definitely on the 10,000 hours. And it's more like, give yourself a break because it takes time, patience. Big time. Right. I like that one. Just because you started last week doesn't mean you're going to be like number one on the planet this week, right now.

00:50:24:07 - 00:50:47:19

Unknown

That's very true. Enjoy the journey. Enjoy the craft. Well, Mike, I've enjoyed recording this master series with you. So I want to say thank you to you, Mark. And thank you to you, our members, be it as viewers or listeners for episode 33 of the Moonshot Master series, where we studied the work of none other than Mr. Malcolm Gladwell.

00:50:47:21 - 00:51:15:04

Unknown

And frankly, we could have gone on for hours, but we didn't want to bore you to death. So we've got just four big ideas for today. Shift your thinking. Challenge the status quo. Challenge your biases. Don't accept everything. Challenge the idea. Then put in the work. Do the 10,000 hours to find your mastery. And as you go about doing that, be curious, because everything is interesting and as you discover the things that matter to you, hold on to them.

00:51:15:10 - 00:51:33:01

Unknown

Fight for them. Absolutely live the cause, because that will give you the power to learn out loud with people like us to go out and be the very best version of yourself, which is what we're absolutely about here on the Moonshots Master series. That's a wrap.