Jocko willink

episode 99

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode 99. It's a very extreme episode. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons since then as always mr. Extreme himself, mr. Mark Pearson Freeland is with me. Good morning, ma. Hey, good morning, Mike. How are you doing this fine Sydney morning. I'm doing really, really well, and I am excited to be starting a whole new tangent on the moonshots journey.

I mean, are you just a little bit excited to start on a fresh innovator, a pioneer, but also. A rather surprisingly good author too. Ah, I think you've, you've danced around it a little bit. I think our listeners can't wait to find out who we're going to be covering today, but before I reveal your right, [00:01:00] we've gone into a lot of author series.

We've listened to entrepreneurs. We've listened to real big thinkers like tarlob today. We're really going to focus on stepping a little bit outside into an area that perhaps. Might be some, some surprising elements to our listeners, but ultimately the truth is all so relevant for what you and I talk about each week.

You can take skills from a number of different industries and sectors and apply it into our business. So today, shall I reveal who we're going to be covering deal. Ash gone day episode 99 is Jocko Willink and Leif Babin Extreme Ownership (buy on Amazon) how us Navy Seals lead and win. Who are, I mean, what is so exciting about, uh, some call him Joko?

Uh, if you use the correct Dutch pronounciation, it's actually Jaco. Um, but, um, [00:02:00] Jocko Willink is, um, without doubt someone bringing us some really fresh thinking, because much like we've noted that the athletes that we've studied like Michael Jordan, Uh, David Goggins, Serena Williams. What's really interesting is that when you study, uh, folks who've been in the military or in sports, What's really interesting is they're so good at breaking down really common rules, lessons, and wisdom to help us do well in life to help us be the best version of ourselves.

And in particular, they all seem to tackle this idea of pushing through barriers, this idea of, you know, embracing the discomfort. As, uh, Joe Rogan put it like learning how to get comfortable in uncomfortable situations. And I think were really odds on for an absolute heavy of learnings from Jaco Willink, who was, [00:03:00] uh, I really honored and recognized, uh, member of the armed forces he has.

Um, brought his thinking, not only in his book, he is really a thought leader when it comes to these concepts of ownership of really taking upon yourself full and complete responsibility and owning the results. And I would put to you Mark that whilst it might sound a little extreme, uh, some of the ideas he talks about, uh, some of the lessons that he has learned.

That all comes from the fact that he has been in the most extreme situation. I mean, the stakes don't get any higher when folks are shooting at you. Right? Exactly. And I think it's worth remembering. And particularly as I was reading the book and getting into, into all of these great business lessons from, from, um, a seal perspective, You and I have our own battlefields, [00:04:00] you know, we have our own form of, uh, dodging, um, aggression or challenges at work.

And I feel as though this insight that we're going to learn about today about ownership is something that you and I have discussed a few times on the podcast before. And it's so relevant in how we operate that. It seems, it seems so incredibly. Um, rich to go and listen to how it benefits another sector of life and learning how we can apply it into our own sector is, is, is just a fascinating little process.

I think it really is so, so for a lot of our listeners, he won't come with sort of that, that thoughtful, elegant, uh, almost delicate, uh, nature of say a Malcolm Gladwell. So, um, get ready for some, some big. You know exactly what you would expect, uh, from a Navy seal, um, [00:05:00] bold, uh, you know, sharp, elbowed thoughts, but I promise you, and all of our listeners, there is so much to be taken from this idea of extreme ownership.

There is so much for us. In our work as, um, you know, innovators as product creators, look just being good people. It's all there for us. So. Mark. Shall we just dive in? Should we hear from the two authors of extreme ownership? Should we go on a rip roaring journey into taking full and complete ownership?

Yes, please. Let's hear an introduction from Jocko Willink and Leif Babin on what makes a great team.

Recognizing what works and what doesn't, but it wasn't really until desk and bruiser, we'd have, you know, training instructors be like, you guys are the best tasking we've ever seen come through here. And it was interesting to me cause we have some [00:06:00] amazing guys in this task unit, but I had amazing guys in my last task get a two.

So it's not really a talent factor that broke us out. A certainly wasn't that we didn't make mistakes because we made all kinds of mistakes, a task, and a bruiser and disastrous training operations. And we had to come back and revamp our training. Processing and make sure that we dialed in standard operating procedures just with translate.

Exactly. Right. Exactly. That's the difference, really? And that was it. It was, it was this idea that we now call extreme ownership, which is we're going to take ownership of this instead of being like, Hey, we're going to push back against people that are telling us we need to be better, or we're going to eat.

Maybe even deny that we're as bad as we are. We're going to take it. Bluntly, honest assessment of ourselves. You don't ever tell my guys. They're amazing. That's the best way to ever say, because that allows us to not get better tomorrow. So we always did that and I recognized just how powerful that was to our performance.

So again, we were never flows. We always make, we make mistakes, but we learned from those mistakes, we got better. We grew all the time and we were able to love service as a result and deliver some exceptional performance on the [00:07:00] battlefield with that attitude. And that's that, that mindset and attitude.

That's why we call the book extreme ownership. And it's important to people you see in the business world. There's at the end of it. Here's what works. Here's what it does in your business. And it's also your life too. What can you do a little bit better? Those problems you accept the criticism when it comes at you, which is so hard for everyone to do by self included, you accept the quiz, listened to it.

And instead of being a decent person,

Oh, yeah. I told you this one would be a full of energy and purpose, [00:08:00] but, um, do you know what kind of like there is, you know, They were both talking about the fact that even in the Navy seal things go wrong. But I, I really think at the beginning of this journey, they're inviting us to accept criticism to accept that things go wrong and don't run away from it.

What they're saying is you've got to run into that feeling. Don't reject criticism. Don't, don't sort of avoid those tough conversations. I think they're saying, all right, roll your sleeves up and get into it. And I think that's the start of the empowerment that comes with, uh, what leafing Jaco did in extreme ownership.

I think this is where it is. Yeah, I think, I think you're right. Actually. I think once you have the confidence. And the awareness to own up to something. When it goes a little bit [00:09:00] sideways, maybe once you take ownership of what's yours and what's your teams, and you know, maybe a mistake happens from your teammate.

You can still own up to that. You can still own the scenario because it's part of your team. Once you go through that process and you're aware of it and you. Um, except it, I think it just allows you to have a much stronger foundation to learn from, and then maybe do a better the next time. Absolutely.

Right. And it sets us up for a journey in this show to be talking about, uh, lessons on teamwork, how to lead and some of the very personal things that you can do to embrace, uh, extreme ownership things such as discipline and how to kind of break things down in a simple way. All of that is ahead of us in the show.

Today's that we got so much ground to cover. And I think where we want to start, this is around the notion of teamwork. [00:10:00] And it's so damn important that if teams want to go places in this world, and I'm not just talking about Navy seals, I'm talking about. Teams at work. And you're a team at home too. If teams want to go places, it all starts with a very, very interesting idea, which is owning up to failures on like a team where no one takes ownership of the problems.

And therefore the problems never get solved with us. Everyone took ownership of their mistakes. Everyone took ownership of the problems. And when our team takes ownership of its problems, the problems get solved. And that is true on the battlefield. It is true in business and it is true in life.

[00:11:00] So why sane? Take ownership, take extreme ownership. Don't make excuses, don't blame, any other person or any other thing, get control of your ego. Don't hide your delicate pride from the truth. Take ownership of everything in your world, the good and the bad take ownership of your mistakes. Take ownership of your shortfalls, take ownership of your problems, and then take ownership of the solutions that will get those problems solved.

I mean what a powerful claim, you know, again, you're getting this energy from, uh, Joko coming through here and [00:12:00] one of his really well-known, um, Ted talks actually, and Mike, for me, I'm guilty of this. I'm guilty in my past of maybe pointing fingers of looking for excuses and ultimately. You know, maybe even trying to blame others.

And what happens is it wastes time, it wastes energy resources, uh, emotion, you know, you can't do your best work if you're distracted with that level of anxiety. And I think what's really, really, um, powerhouse tip that I think is coming through in, in, in this clip here is once you own up to it, you can move on.

You can take it one step further and go from the problem into the solution. That's right. I mean, it's so easy to blame others, isn't it? You know, our pride and ego, uh, saying, Oh, it can't be me. It must be everybody else. And blame is just such a dangerous thing. And you [00:13:00] know, I'm guilty of it too. And it's so important just to, I mean, I love this idea of checking your ego at the door and just saying all own it alone at all.

And I really want to get a solution here. Um, and remembering that what I do when I'm trying to invoke that thing, where I'm say, okay, I'm going to take full responsibility, full ownership, particularly when things have not gone. Right. Hmm is I try to remind myself that this is actually taking the high road, even though it's so tempting.

It's like your ego is like, just blame them. It was them. But ask yourself, what could I have done better? How can I have contributed? So whether it's myself or someone else. Doesn't make a mistake. How do I own it and own it, or the, for me, just starting with that simple [00:14:00] point that I must take the responsibility.

And I always just try and do this thing where I'm like, this is, this is the actual high ground. All right. Although it's violently uncomfortable. Okay. It's on me. It's on me. And you'll notice that my, the greatest sports coaches in the world, even if a player. In a big world championship final moment makes a mistake.

They will say the coach will say, I didn't prepare that player. Well enough, it's on me. And I think that's what extreme ownership looks like. And I think whether you're a sportsman, whether you're in the Navy seals or whether you're in business, all of these elements. You know, when you accept and take ownership of challenges and problems, you're showing your colleagues trust, you're building trust and respect in them.

And this next clip that we've got is again from Jocko telling us about relationships, all of these teammates, Navy seals, army colleagues, [00:15:00] day to day, where are as well as home life forming these relationships. So this next clip is telling us that trust is really, really key. When you start owning those problems and developing those relationships.

And so how do you build those kinds of lasting and useful relationships? Yeah, this is when, when I say that relationships are the most important thing in getting things done. When I look back at my career in the Navy and the seal teams, just about every single thing that I ever did. Was through relationships.

So the amount of times that I looked at one of my subordinates and said, no, you will do what I'm saying because I'm in charge. I don't think I actually honestly ever said that one single time. I think it was always, Hey, this is what we got to get done. How do you think we should do it? Do you think this is smart?

And it was all based on relationships and [00:16:00] up the chain of command too. There was never a time that one of my bosses said. Hey, Jocko, shut up. And you do what I told you to do. There was never a time that one of my bosses said that to me, there was, you know, if I had a question, if I pushed back, they gave me legitimate answers.

If they didn't have good answers, then they would modulator or change what it is that they were telling me to do. So this idea of having relationships up and down the chain of command, and, and there's a word that people bring up a lot. And I think they're pretty interchangeable and it's relationships and trust, right?

It's really, trust is built on relationships. Relationships are built on trust. If you don't trust me, we don't really have a relationship. The more deeply you trust me, the better relationship we have. So how do I build trust with you? So if you're above me in the chain of command, well, this is, and this is one of those rubs answers.

That's so obvious. It's crazy, but people actually fail to do this, which is if, if you asked me to do something as my boss, I do, and I [00:17:00] do it well, and I do it consistently. I go above and beyond what you ask. And if you want me to deliver this project by this date, I deliver it earlier. And I deliver it to the best of my ability above and beyond what you expected.

And you say, Oh wow. When I asked Jocko to do something, he actually does it. And that's where it starts. It starts with that right there with me performing me, offering advice me. Me taking what you asked me to do and doing it. That's the number one thing. If we flip those roles and now I'm in charge of you, how do I build trust with you?

Well, what I do is I give you a project and instead of me giving you a project and then saying, Hey, here's how I want you to do this. And here's how I want you to do the next part. And he said, I say, Hey, here's a project. Let me know how you want to do it. And then you go figure out how you want to get done.

And I don't micromanage you. And I don't ask you a million questions about an and tell you, no, don't do it like that. Do it like this. I let you do it. And what does that tell you that tells you that I trust you? [00:18:00] This idea of trust and relationships is essential because Mark, how good does it feel when you ask someone to take care of something to do a project.

To even just complete a task on your behalf and they do it and they do it well, it feels pretty good, right? Nothing that beats, that feeling of just kind of like a relief, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And then the next time they do it well, so day after day, week after week, and that is the momentum of a great team.

And. Is so fascinating that it all comes down to the trust in that relationship. So I always, I always try and visualize when I, when someone asks me to do something. That it's like a tennis match and they've hit the ball over to me. And that we're like in a rally. So it's essential that I get the ball back to them and that I do it as much as [00:19:00] complete as possible.

And I think that the big opportunity for things to go wrong is when the ball that was hit to me is a little bit unclear. And I think that. The trust bit is about having the conversation of, Hey, I want to follow up on this and find out what you really meant, or you said this, but as I look at it, it looks like it's something completely different.

And I think this is the opportunity to build the trust. And I think, uh, this is also the opportunity where relationships. Uh, break down because if you will, this tennis match between two players, this baseline rally, uh, between two tennis players in a team is, is really where it all can, can go very wrong when people don't really.

Talk about and build the trust around the mission, the task and the project. So nobody's really happy at the end. And I think therefore the [00:20:00] trust broken. Yeah. I think you're right. Once you lose that trust that trust is broken, it's going to be hard to rebuild it. Isn't it to reconnect those individuals and those mindsets.

Um, and do you know, um, what I, um, What I, what I think is an interesting exploration is to explore this dynamic that was in the clip from EOCCO, which is, is talking about, uh, the perception of two people. And I think if you remember the feeling of when people haven't delivered things, you felt like they committed to, and you you're just like, I will, I don't want to ask them to do anything else.

Cause I just don't trust that it will get done in the same way. When anything comes to you, you have to remember there is a chance that someone might perceive exactly the same of you. So how can you proactively go after that to set agree, discuss even maybe negotiate expectations upfront and throughout the [00:21:00] process so that you can keep the alignment and keep the trust.

Because for me, It's always that moment when someone says, Oh, I thought she meant that you wanted it like this, not like that. And if only they built the trust in the alignment there, then they would have got the thing done. They would have looked at each other and say, wow, I can count on you were a team.

Let's do more stuff. And then what often happens have work on the sports field is when someone's not there to hit the ball back when, when it doesn't quite work out. The trust breaks and it takes for ever to build trust, but it can be gone in an instant. And, um, and I like just to build on that, I love the awareness where we're going to listen to a lot of clips today around taking ownership when problems arise and.

Instead of delaying and losing that trust, you own it. And therefore you keep on maintaining that [00:22:00] cadence. But actually what I quite liked about what you just referenced there, Mike is owning it at the beginning of the chain. So before you go out and begin creating a deliverable own the briefing own.

Okay, well, hang on, let me just double check that I have interpreted it the same as you. So I deliver that. I'm owning it from. Point a all the way through to point Z when I deliver it, or maybe there's a problem. I like that as a, as a, a consideration as we go through this concept of extreme ownership. I like that.

And can you imagine if everybody. Starts to take ownership in a team. So everyone's making sure that everyone's aligned the expectations are there every day, people are delivering things and building up that trust in the team. To me, this really takes us to a point of where we can all demonstrate our own leadership and you know, what.

Jaco has gotten more thinking for us [00:23:00] around leadership in the context of this team. And it would not be an official Jaco statement if it wasn't positive, if it wasn't dynamic. So let's listen now to Jaco Willink and how we can be. Unstoppable. When you do take ownership of the situation, it starts just to spread through the organization.

If I say to my team, Hey guys, this wasn't your fault. This is my fault. Here's what we're going to do to fix it. My team looks at me and says, Oh, you know what? We should've done a better job. They don't say, yeah, the red it's your fault. They don't do that. They say we shouldn't have been done. I shouldn't own this.

I should have stepped up. And now you start to have an organization where everyone on the team takes our ownership. And that's a totally different, that is when you become unstoppable. I mean the power of an industry or a business where every single unit is like a worker and everybody's got a job and they own it and they go and deliver it to the best of them.

I just think about, you [00:24:00] know, how we see this great teams at work. They have this history, which is essentially. I trust built on continuous meeting or exceeding of expectations. And that always happens when, you know, people take ownership. So for me, this is sort of the framework that ties it together. You know, the starting point is you just need to take full ownership for responsibility, and then every exchange with your peers and your colleagues is a moment to build that trust.

And when you do it, teams build this momentum. Yeah, as Jaco said, they become unstoppable. So, I mean, this is such a great, um, Sort of a great fueled by which we can apply because I mean, we all work in some sort of team. Uh, even if we're sort of the mad scientist who produces things, you still have to interface with the world.

And every single one of those things is a relationship that can go [00:25:00] better if there's trust. And I think this is, this is so good because when you're on the, on the battlefield, these lessons both good, bad, they, they, they, they become so. Clear and obvious. And I think he's giving us some of the most important things with all of this uncertainty around us at work at the moment taking ownership is the perfect elixir is.

Yeah, absolutely. Because you're working remote. Maybe you're not seeing your colleagues as much as you are day-to-day or in fact, if you think about relationships, maybe you're seeing your family or your partner. More regular than you normally would. And at the same time, maybe you're trying to keep aligned.

And this ownership again, trans late from the battlefield of, of war, into all of these scenarios around us, particularly when you're in, um, maybe you're working more from home and therefore around others, or maybe less than others. [00:26:00] When you communicate and you know, Mike, you and I have talked about this before, when you communicate really, really efficiently and make sure that you understand what's being.

Given to you. And again, I love that tennis they're there, they're the game of tennis where the moon is jumping over the net. You know, I love that this has come back ground because you're quite right. When you can see the ball is in your court and you know that it's your turn to respond to it. Then both sides are feeling comfortable.

There's no anxiety bubbling up within you thinking where you're wondering and thinking, okay, well, is it my turn? Is it, I'm not sure anymore. And when you own it, that's where. You know, this level of, of, um, uh, understanding really comes through. So again, in the theme of kind of leadership and teamwork, we've got another clip here, Mike, that I think is a really great one and [00:27:00] it's stepping away from the, um, the day-to-day, you know, um, work a one to work at two, and actually thinking about it from a leadership perspective and.

This next clip we're going to hear is Jocko telling us about how to lead people and how leaders need to believe in all members of that team. A misconception about the military is people don't do exactly what you say. You have to lead and sell and do all the other things that happen in the corporate world.

Absolutely. So the, whether you're in the seal teams or whether you're in the army or the Marine Corps, the people that are working for you are not robots. There are people and you can not give them orders and expect them to just execute like a robot would. And the worst your plan is thought out, the less response you're going to get.

And just like in business world, the less input I get from you as we create this plan, the less apt you are to execute it correctly. So when w when it comes to, when you have to go execute something, I want you to plan it. I'm not going to plan it for you. I want you to plan it. Now I'm going to come and check out your [00:28:00] plan and we'll collaborate to make sure it's the best plan, because maybe I have more experience than you, or maybe add some strategic vision that you don't have, but I want you to plan it that way you own it.

And if you own it, when you go to execute it, you're going to put that much more effort into it that that's hard to quantify, but that's real. That is real. If you come up with a plan, you're going to put more effort and more pride in executing that plan. Then if I come up with a plan and I give it to you and tell you to execute it, That's just a reality.

I don't, I don't, I don't care who you are. That's a reality. So that type of thing is, is absolutely true. And the other piece of this is this idea of, you know, just that we're going to order everyone to do what, what to do, and they're just gonna do it. If the military was like that, then military leadership would be the easiest thing in the world.

It would be so easy. Cause you just tell you guys what to do and they go do it. And guess what? Being a business leader would be the easiest, because I was having this conversation. I always have this conversation, which is, you know, my [00:29:00] guys wouldn't just do what I told them because I outrank them. And I kind of get that funny, look, let me ask you this I'm here.

Cause your employees aren't doing what you want them to do, right? Can you just fire them? Well, you can't realistically fire him, but don't they work for you, aren't they supposed to follow you because you're in charge and you write their paycheck, but all of a sudden they're not doing what you tell them to do.

Why is that? It's the same exact reason. Cause they're people and guess what people want to own their own destiny. They want to be in charge of what's happening. They want to take ownership. They want to create the plan. That's how they want to go through life. They want to go through life being treated like a robot.

They want to be treated like a human. Um, we all want to own it. I think that is so. Perfect Mark. In the end, nobody wants to turn up and be a robot. People want a sense of ownership because I believe from that is where satisfaction, fulfillment, pride. It all comes from. I took ownership. I delivered, I feel [00:30:00] good.

It's, it's really that simple. And so if you can make this shift, if you can get this aha moment that I, in fact, everybody. Does want to take ownership. You have to give it to them, have to nurture and help and support and coach and mentor, but actually from a default position, almost everybody wants to take ownership.

And therefore, when you give them something to own, you are showing that you believe in them. But I actually think the most important thing. Is how you support, how you inspire coach, train them. Don't just throw it at them and say, good luck with that. How you can help them master it. I truly believe this is some of the very core tenants of leadership.

Isn't it? Yeah, you're right. I, and I, I I'm reminded of Michael Jordan and how he would, you know, not necessarily lead from a point of authority, but he led through his example. He [00:31:00] would practice all the time. He would be hard on the court. He would strike fear in his opponents and even as play as the teammates, as we heard and that's all because he was owning it, he was owning his role in the team as a teammate.

And he was owning this. Um, it's part of himself being one of the greatest players of all time. And it inspires those around you. You know, like we heard earlier. Yeah. Ownership is infectious. Once you start doing it, once you see other, other people doing it, you're inspired by them. And exactly as Jocko is just calling out there, we all want to own it.

People want ownership. If you can go and learn from doing it yourself and own that plan he's right. It will be much, much simpler. For the business to grow when the people who are actively creating or actioning that innovation or change are the ones who came up with a plan themselves. Yeah. I mean, a, if you are the author of the idea, then you surely are the best person to go [00:32:00] make it happen.

And what a gift. Because as I said earlier, it is a huge sense of satisfaction when you get to deliver on the thing. When you get to pull yourself into something and truly get to deliver. I think that's a huge part of pride, uh, satisfaction, fulfillment. Um, it really is essential now. So therefore. Uh, if we know that by default, everyone's sort of, uh, uh, kind of like that, it's really a question of how you can demonstrate your belief in others, around you, how you can give them opportunities for ownership and how you can support them to take that ownership.

And that that's just such a, such a great way to kind of wrap up this kind of series of thinking of, you know, taking ownership and full responsibility. And understanding that if you do that, it is essential that that comes to life in the way you work with others in your [00:33:00] relationships. And that's how you build trust because when they hit the ball to you, you hit it back.

And there's a real sense of trust of delivery, of momentum that you can count on each other. And if you do this yourself, you'll be unstoppable, it'll be infectious. And as a leader, every chance you get. To give something to someone to own is serving their natural human nature. So you can delegate like crazy because people are hungry.

You just got to do it in the right way. Who thought we'd get that much out of a few clips from Jaco Willink based on his book, extreme ownership are pretty crazy, right? I mean, it's just full of inspiring. Insights, you know, w I'm reminded again of, you know, um, William H McRaven, you know, he was all about teamwork as well.

And the power of coming together as a unit and inspiring one another and driving them forward. [00:34:00] What I think Jocko's calling out here is, is similar, but also slightly different. It's all about the teamwork, but only when you own that thing is when a team really gels together. You know, when you create that glue because you can trust one another.

Oh, so valuable, big, powerful stuff, but I'll tell you something Mark, that I'm taking ownership of right now is who we're going to feature next on the moonshots podcast. We have covered it. Wait for this 19 nine different innovators and leaders from all walks of life. And I mean, it's been pretty, pretty crazy, right?

Yeah. I can't believe that it's reached, um, 99 already and covered so many incredible powerhouses entrepreneurs, innovators and authors, as well as sports individuals and army Navy seals, singers [00:35:00] architects. I mean, Mike B the ranges is eclectic. All these innovators that we can learn from. And episode 100 mic it's around the corner is certainly he is, and it is going to be a Cracker, but the question is what, or who are we going to study for the next hundred shows?

And we've got some ideas we've got. Patrick Lensioni who wrote the five dysfunctions of a team? Uh, Stephen Covey, Jordan Peterson, Derek Silva's, Ryan holiday, Christian like God, um, famous directors, David Attenborough, Jane champion. There is a ton of amazing people, but. I think we need some guidance here.

We need some, we need someone to help us navigate this sea of innovators. And to help us ask the question who should be next on the show. So can you think of someone that could, could help us? I think Mike, we've got to look to our teammates [00:36:00] and, and in this case, our teammates that we're going to trust and, and pass ownership to our, you, our listeners.

We want to hear from you guys. We want to hear it. What you've been thinking as we've been learning out loud together, and we want to learn who you guys are reading, listening to I've recently started getting into Ron holiday. So I'm hoping that we'll, we'll cover him very, very soon. Um, and I know Mike's got a list as long as it's arm of, of authors that he's reading as well.

But we want to hear from you guys and Mike we've just created a brand new way for our listeners to get in touch. Haven't we. We have. So if you just go to moonshots.io and you click on the feedback button, you can, uh, tell us everything, uh, that you like, uh, about your favorite episodes, your favorite innovators, and tell us who.

You like, uh, who you're curious about, who you'd love to learn out loud with who are the other innovators you'd like us to cover? So [00:37:00] Mark and myself, the whole research team, we'll go deep into the interwebs to find the very best thinking from your favorite innovators. So. Go to moonshots.io. Tell us, who do you want us to study?

Who do you want to feature in the next episode of the moonshots podcast? We'd love to hear your feedback@moonshots.io. I can't wait to hear what you listeners would like us to, to get into and, and see, by the time that we get to episode number 200, I wonder who we would have covered. I know crazy to think.

Right? Well, let's, uh, let's return to, uh, Jocko Willink and the book extreme ownership. What we're going to do now is focus on some practical tips and thinking about how we might delve into this extreme ownership universe. And the first place we're going to start is. Understanding better. What [00:38:00] this idea of discipline looks like.

So let's have a listen to the man himself, Jocko, Willink. What does discipline really mean? You know, besides waking up early and how do I employ it to all aspects of my life? What does it really mean? Yes, discipline it, it does start with waking up early. It really does. But that is just the beginning. And I always say that discipline is the root of all good qualities, but you have to absolutely apply it to things outside of just waking up early it's, it's everything it's working out every day, making yourself stronger and faster and more flexible and healthier.

Discipline is eating the right foods to fuel [00:39:00] your system.

It it's about disciplining your emotions so you can make good decisions. It's about having the discipline to control your ego. So your ego doesn't get out of hand and control you.

It's about treating people the way you would want to be treated in and doing the tasks that you don't necessarily want to do, but that, you know, will help you or help your team.

It's about facing your fears, takes discipline to face your fears so you can conquer them.

That's what discipline is. Discipline means taking the hard road, the uphill road to do what's [00:40:00] right for yourself and for other people

it's so often the easy path, the easy path that calls to us. To be weak for that moment to break down for that moment to give in to the desire and the short-term gratification.

But the discipline will not allow that the discipline calls for strength and fortitude and will it won't accept weakness. It won't tolerate another breakdown.

The discipline can seem like it's your worst enemy, but the reality is [00:41:00] discipline is your best friend. It will take care of you. Like nothing else can, it'll put you on that path. The path to strength and health and intelligence and happiness.

And most importantly, it'll put you on that path to freedom. I mean, we got a lot of great. Great items in that mind. Oh my gosh. That is easily clip of the day. Yeah. Isn't that a wonderful clip? You know, it's again, stepping, it just illustrates the value of digging into innovators in different spaces. We're not hearing from Jocko here, what it is to be a Navy seal.

You know, we're not getting into the, um, They're kind of dirt of, [00:42:00] of, of being in the war zone. What he's saying here is very, very mindful, you know, he's talking about waking up. Sure. But then he covers diet. He covers emotions. He covers ego, Travis, how they want to be treated, you know, this concept of discipline being your best friend, even though it feels like your worst enemy.

I mean, what a

conceptual idea. That he probably learned obviously through reading and so on, but also through actual hardcore experience perhaps in the battlefield. And it's, it's true for us as well. You know, this instant gratification that you get with, whether it's social media emails, Netflix, whatever it might be, and actually stepping away from it slightly anything.

Okay. Well, let's actually have that discipline of. Embracing that obstacle or that challenge that, because I know I'm going to get better. That reminds me of all, many, many of the other innovators that we've covered [00:43:00] recently. It really does. I mean, there was so much there, I think. The first thing that surprised me is that you often associate in fact, discipline, waking up early, doing some exercises, right.

That's sort of disciplined, but then he expands it on such a massive access. I mean, he's like literally. Being very stoic here. So, so if you are interested in, you know, this idea that the obstacle is in fact the way, uh, if you look up stoicism Marcus Aurelius or, uh, the book, the obstacle is the way you'll find a lot more about that.

If you're, if you're interested in it, but to me, it's almost. Takes me back to this idea that, you know, if what you're doing is tough, if it feels hard and it's calling upon extra reserves, then it's kind of the right [00:44:00] thing. Do you know what I mean? It's like, if something is really tough, uh, like being disciplined, getting to bed early, waking up, checking your ego at the door, don't say that aggressive or that nasty thing.

Be more considerate of others have the discipline, even though the, the, the bad nasty side of he's dying to jump out, control it. Right. So discipline can be your best friend, even though it feels like your enemy. I think this mental awareness is the ability to control this discipline of oneself is at the very nucleus of being able to take ownership.

You can't take that ownership. If you're constantly deflecting it away from yourself, if you're ego is getting it or your pride is getting in the way of you accepting and having awareness, you know, these challenges around you being, um, [00:45:00] changeable, or, you know, you being the solution to them, you can't, you can't learn and grow.

And. Have that positive outcome. If you don't start with this, which w w which we, you know, we've just been listening to it's. I dunno. It's, it's an absolute Corker and is it is rich and it's, uh, it's, it's really the essential thing. Take the hard route. Take the longterm route. Defer gratification. Invest invest, invest and be patient.

It will come. I mean, this is a lesson that we see from many of the great athletes and many great entrepreneurs, but two to kind of pivot away from a one lesson to another. Another lesson that we see is that we are in this war with complexity. All right. And what I love about Yoko is he's given us this big one around discipline.

But now he's got a [00:46:00] really delightfully, simple thought, uh, which is in fact about the idea of simplifying things in order to have a plan and be successful. So once again, let's return to Jaco, Willink and talking about this very important idea of simplification. There's a lot guys will hit me up. Girls will hit me up.

Uh, something went wrong with a client. I stepped in. I took ownership. They thanked me problem solved. Got it. Squared away. I CA people are surprised. People are surprised that it works. People are surprised that it works. And again, just to make sure everybody knows. That alone doesn't work. You still have to problem solve the problem without you cause with the client, right?

You, you, you gave them what they need is late or it's going to be late. And now you say it's my fault. That doesn't mean that you don't need to get it to them ASAP and make up some corrective betters and lower the price to do something so that it makes up for the problem. But the worst thing you can say is, well, you didn't specify exactly what you [00:47:00] wanted in the order and therefore we couldn't get you what you wanted on top.

Okay. We're never coming back for business again, and we're angry this whole time and I'm going to short you money when we pay you in any ways. If I pay you at all the next time you get into a situation and you write down or you take the, the excuses and the reasons that you come up with. Look at them and then figure out how they were, how those things were actually your fault and or how you could have prevented them.

Because a lot of times it's like, here's, here's the, here's the one, uh, Hey boss, we didn't get the mission accomplished because the weather rolled in and we couldn't launch on the mission. That's that's the problem now. We all know that we don't control the weather. So when you say you write the problem down, we failed the mission because we didn't control the weather.

We can't control the weather. That's why we failed the mission. That's my excuse. That's a, that's a logical reason. There's th that's, that's a, that's a legitimate excuse, but don't use it. What you do is you say, what [00:48:00] could I have done? To have controlled the weather. Okay. I know I kept getting, okay, wait, I can't control the weather.

What could I have done? I could have come up with the contingency plan. I could have come up. We could have staged in a better place. So then you go to the boss and you say, look, boss, here's what happened. The weather went South really bad. That was a problem. But it's a problem that I should have done a better job taking care of what I should have done was I should have had a contingency plan.

I should have staged closer to the target area that I could have taken vehicles instead of helicopters. That's my fault from now on. I will absolutely have a secondary plan. This won't happen again. We can't control the weather, but we can control how we plan and how we execute. And this won't happen again.

Battlefield tips for the office. Like, again, it's just such a great practical, um, nod to how we can all own the problem [00:49:00] and come up with a solution at the same time. I've, I've missed the mr. Target maybe, but it's okay because here's what I've learned and what I'll do differently next time. You know, again, it's kind of reminded me of, um, You know, tarlob when he was telling us about, uh, the benefits of uncertainty and embracing that, that, that challenge, you know, we've covered so many innovators and authors who really are kind of targeting us in this way.

Aren't we might identify that problem, but don't point fingers or try and blame others instead, just saying, okay, well that's cool. What can I learn from it? Yeah, the, the big piece of, um, the way to take ownership after some of these fundamental thoughts that we've had about discipline, um, about relationships and trust and so forth.

The big part that you will discover in this book is he talks about planning and always having a plan B and a plan [00:50:00] C you know, we're often finding ourselves as he told that situation, you know? Oh yeah. Uh, In our workplace, uh, or even on the sports field, you know, we had a plan to do it like this, but then something happened and we couldn't do it.

So the classic thing is in a sports fixture. If it's out those, Oh, it was raining. Well, why wouldn't you have at least three game plans for a rainy, a rainy day. Right? The key here is. That plan, plan ahead, have lots of different, uh, alternatives, like be prepared, um, because this comes back to something, they sit in the very, very first clip.

Things will go wrong. So part of ownership is actually being ready for that. And, you know, you watch any of these, um, documentaries, uh, there's a, there's a great series on Amazon prime called all or nothing, or they follow a season of a, of a professional sporting team, either a [00:51:00] football team in the United Kingdom or an American NFL team.

And what's so amazing is how much hardship these teams go through. Even though they are these glorious celebrated multimillion dollar, uh, players and clubs and teams and brands, they go through so much unexpected, uh, hardship, for example, injuries. So-and-so's out. Oh my gosh. Key player. And, um, what's so interesting is what Jocko is proposing to us.

This is always going to happen and ownership is not just raising your hand when it didn't go. Right. But being ready, being prepared for things not going right. And having plan B plan C. I think this is a really big takeaway, uh, from, from the book extreme ownership is don't just go in with one plan, have a number of plans, and therefore you can bounce around [00:52:00] and be flexible with it.

What a great tip from Jocko. Uh, I think that's, that's a fantastic bit of advice, Mike, but I must met. I have another potential piece of advice coming from Jocko that might even be something incredibly actionable and practical Mike. And let's see, I'm very, I'm very keen to hear a bit, Ken, can it tip, can it beat the discipline, the discipline clip that we played just earlier, because for me that was good for the day.

So what do you recommend is this, this next and final clip? Is this. Again, it'd be a challenge at a contender for clip of the day. I think next clip, which is going to be our outro clip on episode 99 on Jocko. Willink is going to be at a contender. This one is all about difficulties in dealing with challenges in our day to day lives and remembering that sometimes these things are in our control with regards to how we respond to it.

So this final clip [00:53:00] Jocko Willink is he's going to tell us the best fight he's ever heard. How do you ideal with setbacks failures, delays, defeat, or other disasters actually have a fairly simple way of dealing with these situations and is actually one word to deal with all those situations. And that is good.

And this is actually something that one of my direct subordinates, one of my guys that worked for me pointed out to me and he would, he would call me up or pull me aside with some major problems, some issue that was going on. And he'd say, pastor, we got this and that. And the other thing, and I look at him and I'd say, good.

And finally, one day he was telling me about some issue that he was having some problem. And he said, I already know what you're going to say. And I said, well, what am I going to say? You said, you're going to say good. He said, that's what you always say when something is wrong in [00:54:00] going bad, you always just look at me and say good.

And I said, well, yeah. And, and I mean it, and that is how I feel when things are going bad, there's going to be some good. That's going to come from it. Oh, mission got canceled. Good. We can focus on another one. Didn't get the new high speed gear we wanted. Good. We can keep it simple. Didn't get promoted.

Good. More time to get better. Didn't get funded. Good. We own more of the company. Didn't get the job you wanted. Good. You can get more experience. Build a better resume. Got injured, got injured. Sprained my ankle. Good. Needed a break from training. Got tapped out. Good. It's better to tap and training than a tap out on the street.

Got beat. Good. You learned unexpected problems. Good. We have the opportunity to figure out a solution. [00:55:00] That's it? That's it. When things are going bad, don't get all bummed out. Don't get startled. Don't get frustrated. No, you just look at the issue and you say good. And lastly, if you can say the word, good.

Guess what? It means you're still alive. It means you're still breathing. And if you're still breathing or the, now you still got some fight left in you. So get up dust off, reload, recalibrate, reengage, and go out on the attack. And that right there is about as good as it gets.

Ooh. The only thing that I can really say to that clip is good.

[00:56:00] What a, what a powerhouse close to the show Mark. Oh my gosh. That was awesome. Wasn't it? Yeah. It's good. A response to every challenge, you know, it's a classic, I think less than that. A lot of us grew up on thinking about things on the positive side of life. And you know, this is just a one word response that you can have to any problem that comes along, you get locked out of your house, you get a bad email, it starts to rain.

Good. This change your mindset from a very, very elemental way. Let's see. Let's see how it goes. I like it, dude. Uh, Mark. I mean, what, what an Epic, what a Titanic show from Jocko Willink. When you sit back now, what's, what's the biggest takeaway for you? I think this acceptance of discipline, I think is a really, really valuable lesson that we learned.

I [00:57:00] think ownership you and I are. We've called it out a lot on our listeners. Um, I've probably heard us as called out this idea of communication and ownership a lot in the past, but I think that's really, really coming through in every clip that we've had. Obviously the book is all about extreme ownership, but especially in the discipline one, because you're challenging yourself.

You're not looking to others to change you. The discipline is all in your own mindset. You're changing your ego, your pride, your ability to accept criticism as well as challenges and reappropriating it, reappropriating it in a way that is positive for those around you, as well as yourself. That, that for me, I think is, is, is an absolute powerhouse of, uh, of a lesson.

What about you, Mike? Um, I'm, I'm going to go with it. It's like discipline is like 360 degrees. Like it's, it's more than just waking up. It's it's, uh, you know, something for, for how you think, how you behave, [00:58:00] how you feel. Um, it's three 60, man. That was, that was huge. That was really, really huge to anything.

Yeah, absolutely. 360 degree all around us. Let's go. I'm ready. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, Mark, thank you ever so much for, for helping me navigate through this very dense action packed extreme ownership idea. I mean, it was, it was a lot of fun. Yeah. As well, wasn't it? Yeah. And this has been a lot of fun. I love digging into slightly different authors and innovators and teachers that we can learn lessons from.

And. You know, there's no one different, more different than the, the powerhouse and enthusiasm Jocko. Yeah, totally, totally. And listen, how you fired up for our centenary show next week. Uh, are you, uh, it's gonna be an action packed show too. Yeah. It's going to be a big, big show. We are. [00:59:00] Following a similar structure, Mike, actually, I don't know how much to give away to our listeners, but you know, you and I have a pretty interesting strategy and show's structure in place.

I think it's going to be a lot of fun for our listeners for those new ones, as well as those who are returning to us episode after episode. So I hope we're, we're going to have an absolute, uh, not just good. But great.

Well, on that note, my I'm so fired up about next week, but for now, I want to say, thank you. Thank you to you, Mark. Thank you to all of our listeners who have been journeyers here on the moonshots podcast, where we are learning out loud and boy. Did we get some extreme ownership turbocharging done today?

So I hope all of you, uh, can unpack what we've learned from Jaco willing to take responsibility. Just take it 100% and build trust with everyone [01:00:00] around you and in your relationships with them, because you know, that sort of behavior it's infectious ownership is infectious. And what happens is this gives you the chance to believe in those, around you to give them an opportunity to own it.

And that starts every single day, not only with the discipline to get out of bed, but discipline in everywhere, everything in every way possible. So make sure you've got a plan and I have a plan B because if you do okay, all of those things, if we can learn out loud from Jaco willing, then we can truly enjoy life.

And we will know that it is good. So that's it from the moonshots bug. Cut.