Malcolm Gladwell: The tipping point

episode 90

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It is episode 90 feels like a tipping point to me. I'm your cohost Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined by the man himself. Who's a bit of a Maven, a bit of a connector. Mr. Mark Pearson. Freeland. Good morning, Mark.

Hey, good morning, Mike. I am well, glad to be here today. God, that's a terrible joke actually. Wasn't it. Well with that sort of injury, you can only recover by just. Tell us what amazing author we're going to dig into today on the moonshots podcast. And this is an exciting one because we're beginning a new author series, ladies and gentlemen, we cannot wait to get started. And today we're kicking off the first of our four episodes on Malcolm Gladwell author of so many New

[00:01:00] York times best sellers. It's unbelievable. The amount of work, the breadth that he's done is just mind boggling. Isn't it? Mike? It is. I mean, we could almost just do a productivity show and Malcolm Gladwell. I mean, he's that prolific isn't he, he really, really is. He's the host of podcast he's being included in times 100, most influential people list. And he's even touted as one of the foreign policies top. Global thinkers. It sounds like a big brain and boy coming up today with starting with probably he's most well known classic tipping point (buy on Amazon). And, um, I remember reading that and it really truly, I think started a whole fad, um, of these sorts of authors bringing new insights into how we think and how we behave. Um, and. I'm really fond of the tipping point, because I think it really uncovers

[00:02:00] the patterns and the systems and some of the frameworks behind how good ideas spread, how messages move around our culture. And, um, I think it's so damn cool that the model. The underlying pattern that Gladwell discovered is so relevant right now because he was a studier of the AIDS epidemic. And it was through that, that he saw a model in the way viruses spread the way contingence mood. It moves the way stories move in our culture and how they can change behavior. So what an amazingly timely and relevant model for us to consider, when you think about how stories spread, I'm pretty pumped. Ma I I'm pretty pumped, especially because this was his debut book. What an entrance into the space. Oh, my was this his very

[00:03:00] first, his very first book. Yep. What, what a great time to look at how stories spread, um, as the U S is rolling into elections where there's competing attention, uh, you know, competing efforts for our attention, the way stories move. We have these ideas of fake news, and we're all doing this in the context of life after an epidemic. So the tipping point is so timely. Mark. Where do we begin this adventure? I think we've got to begin with hearing from Malcolm himself telling us a little bit about where his idea for the tipping point came from. Where did this idea come to you? Well, I, I was writing about, uh, a couple of years ago I was covering the AIDS epidemic. Right. So I got very interested in the kind of internal

[00:04:00] dynamics of epidemics because they have their own sort of weird logic and, um, It just began to occur to me that I didn't understand why. When we talk about contagious things, we confined our conversation to viruses or to diseases because the phenomena of disease could be attributed to other places. Well ideas, but also I'll see. Yes, exactly. That those same principles. I mean, so many different things are other things, ideas, trends. Song lyrics are contagious and precisely the same way. I mean, I talk in the book about the word yawn. If I say, where were y'all in long enough, you will start yelling. And exactly people watching the show will start yawning. That's an incredibly contagious word. Um, and it's contagious and precisely the same way as everybody catches it or catching it. It's, I mean, it's, it's spreading from one source, um, everywhere, but there is. Same thing is true for, I think for particular, for products or ideas or behaviors, especially I talk in the book about all kinds of contagious behaviors, contagious

[00:05:00] behaviors. I mean, Mark, this is it's so interesting to think about how ideas move, how they, they catch on. They get so-called viral, they get, uh, contagious, but it's not just ideas. It's products, it's movements. It's music. It's so fascinating to think the way we work, the way we live, the way we socialize has this really interesting lore of the tipping point. And, um, I think it's so fascinating. Something that seems so random is actually. Rooted in a deep pattern. There's actually a real system at play. Yeah, that's exactly it. I think what's interesting about the book when it first came out and still is true now is when you do read it, a lot of it makes so much sense because he's right. Even though it seems very, very scientific and we're going to hear a lot of great case studies actually within this episode coming up too,

[00:06:00] but. It makes a lot of sense when you think it just takes that small little to create a revolution to create a global movement or a culture shift. And you're right. That can be across anything, whether it's music, products, ideas, or just behavior it's, it's substantial. Yeah, well, now what we've got is the sort of, uh, the right hand to that click, which is this next phase where Gladwell really starts to get into, um, you know, examples of these tipping points. And we love this because for us, it's all about not only understanding the ideas, but breaking them down into case studies, examples, rules, laws, mantras that we can follow. So let's jump straight back into Gladwell, giving us a great example of a tipping point. The critical question is what is the tipping point, but you don't think so. Yes, no, no, you're absolutely right. That's also critical because it differs from, from epidemic. And, you know, I mean, if you look at New York city crime, for example, two clear tipping

[00:07:00] points, uh, late sixties, 67, 68, when crime explodes. In the space of two years, it goes from, we go from the city with a very New York, has a very minor crime problem until the late sixties. And then a mid nineties when crime suddenly tips down and in the space of two years when the murder dropped by two 30. So what are the typical on both of those? Um, the tipping point and, well, I talk a lot in my book about, uh, the latter case. Um, I, I mean, I imagine, uh, I think that the, the sixties one is a harder example and the latter case, I do think it was some combination of, uh, innovative police strategies, broken windows theory, um, uh, greater community involvement. That kind of, it was a bunch of little things that had a really dramatic back to this. That's a nice little teasing clip and it really emphasizes what we're going to be getting into in this show. Understanding of what impacts and what events can begin a cultural shift. I mean, he's, he's teasing there just a concept in the nineties with

[00:08:00] police behavior and so on. And I dunno, isn't it fascinating, Mike, that. You know, we can talk about products and marketing and strategy research, but actually the same behaviors and the same impacts occur. Even when you're planning a city, when governments and political parties are considering how to respond to crime. For example, the same principles exist. Yeah, and is, well, as a, as I said earlier, what the tension in this idea, this, this reveal that we find in Malcolm Gladwell's book, the tipping point is. On surface, it appears very random. It appears spontaneous. Uh, um, but actually the truth is there is a series of factors at play. And if you're, I'm trying to create a movement, um, if you're on a mission, Uh, to have some impact in the world. Then what [00:09:00] I think is ahead of you for this show is to, we can reveal the system that's at play with tipping points and how ideas spread.

We can do that through not only the case studies, but we'll actually have some practical, um, Modules and tools and tips that you can actually use, because whether you've got a business, a company, a product, an idea, whether you're at a nonprofit, it doesn't matter, still play by the laws of the tipping point. So if we can understand it better, I think we can share our mission, share our purpose with the world. Bring people together around that, regardless of what the enterprise or what this movement is. So there is a lot to come, but before we get into all these case studies, may I know someone's thinking to themselves, Oh, I just loved the Adam Grant series that the guys on moonshots did, but where do they go, Mark, if they want to go into our back catalog, if they want to hear,

[00:10:00] um, Some of our old shows on Elon Musk or whether they want to get to our newsletter so they can get be the first to know when there's a new show. Where do they go? We've got a helpful destination online called moonshots.io. You can find all of our latest episodes as well as an archive of 89 shows across innovators. Uh, Huge fantastic psychologists and real big thinkers as well as many, many authors and architects as well. We've got mantras online. We've got like you say, Mike and ability for people to sign up for newsletters as well as our blog posts and links to. Uh, our show notes, our transcriptions, and all sorts of other goodies. So I fully suggest maybe this could be a tipping point for everybody to go and get and visit moonshots.io to find out more. Wonderful. So the next part of the show, we're going to go deep, been to a few case studies and examples. And I

[00:11:00] can tell you that we have got a very wide selection. We're going to look at some of the founding movements, uh, in the creation of the United States. We're going to go to popular TV shows where even in it return to this idea of the broken windows theory that so revolutionized. The public safety and the reduced crime in the city of New York. So that's all ahead of us, but now we're going to go back into the history books. We're going to go to the story, uh, that really ignited, uh, independence for America from the English. And it's all based around this gentleman called Paul Revere. And he actually shows to us what it looks like. When a story spreads like an epidemic compared to others at the same time whose stories did not spread. So let's go into the first of our case studies with Malcolm Gladwell, talking about Paul Revere's

[00:12:00] midnight ride. A great sort of historical example that has a, um, where the tipping point is really obvious is, uh, is Paul Revere's midnight ride, most famous word about epidemic of all time. Um, either the contagious messages, the British are coming, right? The tipping point in that case is Paul Revere himself. And he's an example of what I call a tipping person, um, because somebody else leaves Boston at night, William Dawes, um, with the same message, but no one. In all the towns, William Dawes rode through no one listened to him. And no one from those towns gathered as the next morning to fight the British. But everybody that, um, that Paul Revere brides SU you know, they're, they're malicious cats. The difference, the difference is the Paul Revere is this extraordinary individual. He's unbelievably exceptional guy who he's what I call in the book of connector. Um, he had the biggest Rolodex. In colonial new England. He was on every member of every club and every society, everybody knew him. He was a bit of a gharial. So when he goes to these towns, um, it's not simply him shouting out the British are coming. It's him. It's

[00:13:00] people seeing that it's him. He has credibility. He also knew who to tell because he knows everybody. He knows that if I'm routing through Waltham or whatever and need them, um, you know, Joe Smith is the guy who can get this all the way to the, you know, um, so one individual Smith, he knows if Joe Smith hears it will be spread. Yes. I even further into, yeah. Whereas William Dawes, you know, who knew William does? I mean, he, so he rides through a 2:00 AM shouting. The British are coming, who is this? So that's an example of how an individual can have conserve as a kind of human tipping point. And it's interesting when we consider this idea of mass versus individual, you know, No matter how significant you might be in your particular place of work, or maybe you're in the army, or maybe you're the leader of a town, whatever it might be. If you've got those connections and you've got those people and you've got that element of influence, maybe that's the word it's just such a valuable piece to be in. And it's

[00:14:00] fascinating to hear Gladwell, really write that down from a historical perspective. Yeah. And the context here was that William doors ran with exactly the same message as Paul Revere. But because Paul Revere was like this super connector, he mobilized all these people with this message, the British are coming, bear arms, and William doors took exactly the same story and nobody went and bought her arms on his behalf. So this is so. Uh, such a timely reminder. It's not only the story, but who you're telling it to. And who's actually telling the story. It's almost like this idea of that. The influencer influences other influences because it was this, there was this great point that Bibo was making because he said, well, what happens is that poor review was not only powerful in him telling the story. He also knew kind of these mini influences to go tell who then had their own networks of

[00:15:00] influence. And so it's this really fascinating idea. It's not just the story. Is it? No, it's not just the story. It's all about the who you as well. And I, I think that's a fascinating one, but maybe Mike it's now time for us to move slightly closer in the history books and now costs a glance on something that even more, um, memorable perhaps in our, in our listeners past and hear a little bit about Gladwell now telling us, um, how an element of stickiness and an element of. Preparation and consideration goes into all of those big moments in our cultural as well as historical, whether it's poor Revere or even on television. This concept of consideration is so, so prevailing. So here's Gladwell now telling us a little bit about the stickiness epidemic. Take something like Sesame street, Sesame street is a really

[00:16:00] fascinating sample, uh, learning epidemic. Um, and I devote a chapter to trying to figure out why the show was so incredibly successful. And, uh, the answer is that they paid that show. First of all, our conception of that show is all wrong. We think of it as, as Jim Henson and a bunch of really clever guys sitting around, coming up with, you know, pulling ideas out of their hat. In fact, it's a show that's created by a team of cognitive psychologists. The leading cognitive psychologist of the day sat down and engineered segment by segment how that show, how that show should, how to, how to, how to, how to, um, uh, structure information so that it fits into the head of three year olds. In other words, how does a three year old think, can I put letters on the screen or structure the narrative or the dialogue here so that it fits right into their head and makes. And it has what I call stickiness, which I think is a very critical component in creating an equity stickiness, stickiness would be, um, for 90 to be epidemic. It must be more than contagious. It must be more than that. It must have

[00:17:00] more than the ability to spread from you. To me. You also have to remember it, right? It has to make an impact on you. It has to. So if I wanna say. Start an epidemic of learning and kids. It's not enough to hold a child's attention for 50 minutes in a television show. I have to, um, inflammation has to stay with them. So, so it, it, you know, creates a learning process that affects when they go to school two years down the road, or, and that was what they were looking for. And they did all of these extraordinary time, time, um, really quite revolutionary stuff in training the measure, like they would strap kids in chairs and put these special, um, goggles on them. And. Uh, you know, you'd have Grover on the screen saying C a T and the letter C H st. Cat and let her see it would appear on the screen. And so they would have these goggles, which allow them to track where the eyeballs and the kids are moving. Oh, I know. And if the kids were looking at Grover and not the letters and they would scrap it and start over again. Or if the kids were looking at the letters, but they were going, um, uh, they were going right to left and not left to. Right. They would scrap it and start over again. So it was that kind of

[00:18:00] extraordinary attention to detail that made that show. That was the tipping point. That show that. Yeah, look, um, fascinating thing about this, uh, Sesame street story is one I can still remember. I can still hum to you the Sesame street theme song. I remember Groucho and I remember the whole. Uh, the whole thing is still so vivid in my mind. And this must've been on my gosh a long, long time ago. Um, the, the, the insight here is that Sesame street was no fluke at all. It was through this attention to detail. On crafting the engagement of the story, but here's the other thing, what I love about this Mark is they continued to test and learn and refine. The way in which they told this story. So this is the other thing, uh, having spent so

[00:19:00] long on Madison Avenue, telling stories, I can tell you that each story deserves its craft, um, and the hard work it's almost akin to what Talib was talking about in our previous show about having skin in the game. You've got to continuously test and refine your story. Like you're testing a product. In fact, it's exactly the same. You can have a hypothesis as to what a good story it might be, but then you've got to sit down and test it. In the case of Sesame street, they tested with young children. What stories that they would find engaging? I mean, think about it. They got kids to sit down for 15 minutes and watch a show. I day to find me another show. They could do that for a couple of decades. So this to me is the huge learning. That actually there is this system, uh, you know, it's not only the law or if the few, like who tells the story, but it's also the stickiness of the story

[00:20:00] itself. And I think the big learning here is we can test and learn and yeah. Find those stories. I'm liking this math. Oh, I love it. Test refine and evolve. Cause you're right. Tastes change. Um, the kids grow up and there are new cultural influences and technologies and so on. And I bet you, they are just as successful now as they ever were. I'm sure there are many more parties and programs that are following Sesame street in this element of testing and learning and listening, but who, what, what a breakthrough. Um, an example of a business and a product being created based on those customers. Yeah. And I think it's this, this idea that, um, I think that the word is, is how engineered a good story must be, particularly if you want it to last to such an extent. And I just see it as a process of

[00:21:00] finding, uh, understanding emotionally, what story works for people. I think it's about really trying to test the best way to present, propose, um, this idea. Um, and. It's all about finding out what is the best place to tell that story and try and stimulate how people might tell others about it. There's such a whole universe, um, to creating this engagement or this stickiness. Um, and I think. The takeout for me is, do not underestimate what it takes. If you want to create a, uh, you know, a tipping point or I have a story echo epidemic where it's spreads, you've got to put in the work. I think that's what Gladwell. Is reminding. So what's for you, Mark. If you were about to go and tell a story and you just process the Sesame street case study, what's the, what's the

[00:22:00] golden rule that you would have for yourself. When you go out to tell your next story, don't be subjective. Don't be stuck in your ways, your decision, you know, and, and I'm, I'm very much an example of somebody who has done that in the past. Um, you go in full throttle thinking your idea was the vest. You think I've got it? I've nailed the brief, but actually. Well, who's going to decide, is it going to be me or is it going to be the customer who's going to be purchasing or watching or listening to the, the, the end product? My work and that's, I think that's the real lesson here. Sesame street riders probably had many, many avenues and narratives. They probably had a good direction on who the characters look like and the way that the TV was structured, but they went in with the open mind. And the ability to evolve and listen to their customers. And that's so valuable. And again, so

[00:23:00] prescient in our world right now, where everybody has total line access to what things look like, and I can buy anything I want from anywhere online. And you're fighting for that attention. And, you know, I think there's a big element in Netflix as well. Going back to Reed Hastings with algorithms and the ability to learn what people are watching and therefore know what to make next. Yeah. I think Netflix could be a good example. Of a business that has, you know, learn from successes like Sesame street and listening to their customers and evolving, using the tipping point. And the crazy thing is that when you get the right person, okay, so this is Gladwell's Laura with a few. When you get the stickiness happening, you can create this amazing, uh, engagement, whether it's in the form of. Changing behaviors of consumers, of citizens, uh,

[00:24:00] or anything in between. Like it applies to anyone. That's got a heartbeat. That's human. And what's really nice is that we can bring this all the way back around to this example that Gladwell gave at the beginning of the year, which was about the transformation, the reduction of crime in New York. And it was all. Based around this idea of the broken windows theory. And one of the books that I am sure was inspired by Glen well is Freakonomics. And the guys at Freakonomics, who've gone on to build this great media empire around the idea of better understanding how things work. And we're actually have a great clip from them explaining this theory of the broken windows theory. And I want, as we listened to this, let's think about how this related to. The change in transformation, but tipping point in New York. So the broken windows theory is the idea that if, if you let minor transgressions go, [00:25:00] then that encourages people to do much more. He missed in serious crimes and response. And it actually comes from an experiment that was done by researchers who put a car in a neighborhood in Brooklyn, and they just wanted to see what would happen to it. It would be vandalized damage, whatnot, and sat there for weeks and nothing happened to it. And then they went by and they smashed in the front window. Within something like eight hours, the entire car had been stripped and the wheels have been taken the battery and everything valuable had been taken to all to, until someone smashed in that window and showed that nobody cared about the car, nobody would touch it. But as soon as the window was smashed, all hell broke loose. And that's the idea behind broken windows is that if you go after. Uh, homeless people, you know, squeegeeing doing squeegees on people's car windows, or people jumping the turnstiles in the subway. Then by showing that you won't let people do these monitor transgressions people won't do the more serious crimes. What I think [00:26:00] is a great lesson coming out of that is the ability for the, the police force, the government, the scientists behind this idea to have thought. Okay, well, let's experiment here. Let's put this car into this neighborhood. Let's leave it for a couple of weeks, maybe a month. And then we know what plan B is. We're gonna start in the front window and we want to see how people respond. And, you know, you can imagine sitting there, like at the time table where I'm telling you, this is my big idea. You think? What is he talking about? But knowing, but knowing that this human behavior. Is a possibility and knowing that this is how people will likely respond again, it's it's this, this tipping point finding what that balance is, what is the influential moment that inspires or drives an individual to go that one step further seeing the [00:27:00] broken window. Okay. I'm going to take the tires. Yeah. I love this idea that, um, don't underestimate. For the minor transgressions are symbols. Mmm. Entry points for bigger transgressions to put this in a positive context. You know, funny thing that comes to my mind is what we do at my home is we have this focus on eating dinner together around the table. It's a small thing. But we believe, uh, my wife and I, I believe that this is a symbol that's really important for our son, that we are together as a family. And this is an example of small things that you can do that are little cues, little suggestions, little windows into, um, do these small things. And this will ladder up to bigger things. And I think that, um, I tell you what. [00:28:00] I'm going to take it to a bank, to the William H McRaven show where we talked about make your bed. And I think this is just the broken windows theory inverting, and it's the unbroken window. It's how small things can have a big impact. Such a elegant metaphor. I just love this. Don't you mind? And actually just building on your point there, around the habits. Cause I think you're quite right. Thinking about McRaven, du HIG and Claire, that, that the habits series that we did a couple of weeks ago for me. You're right. This is a great example of. What influences a person's behavior, what is their natural, you know, habits, habitual response to seeing in this example, a broken window, what does, what does a person do and what do they do? And they see others doing it. And you're [00:29:00] quite right. Seeing a made bed in the case of McRaven. When you get home, no matter what type of day you've had, at least, you know, that the bed is already made that habits, your behavior. Inspires you to maybe feel more relaxed. Maybe it's knowing that the day has been okay in the end. And you're quite right. This is a really literal example of how habits do have a knock on effect for you as well as those around you. Yeah. It's interesting seeing actually, before the show, I didn't really have this connection, but just listening together now. It's really making me see that there's almost a direct bridge here into that habit series that we did with du HIG, James CLI McRaven wonderful stuff. And once again, like, isn't it fantastic to see that we have different experts, different innovators, approaching things from very different points of view, but they are all starting to reveal. A [00:30:00] system of rules that seem very clear regardless of where you start from. It's like these universal rules, uh, for success, for being the best that you can be. And, um, I find that very exciting and I would encourage all of you out there, listeners to join in the conversation and. To start this conversation, uh, and to make sure that you are spreading the word here, creating a tipping point for us here at the moonshots podcast. I would like to ask everyone listening right now to just jump on your phone or on your device. And, uh, if you're listening to us on a Spotify or the Apple podcast app, go in and give us a rating, or if you're feeling. If you've got a bit of a wordsmith vibe happening, we'd love you to write a small review because these ratings and reviews, help new people, [00:31:00] new listeners discover. The show and to join us on this mission, to learn from innovators so that we can be the best we can possibly be. So please jump into those apps. It's all we ask. We don't ask you to pay anything for the show. We don't bombard you with ads. All we ask is if you are enjoying it, Spread the word spread the word. It would mean a lot to us because we really believe that the rules that we're uncovering are really powerful and that everybody deserves the chance to hear to understand these so that they can be the best they can be. And Mark, I think we give bonus points are really cool. Uh, using names don't we, when people leave reviews, we do, we do beef early on, I think might still be one of the best. Um, but also boho snow pants. Oh, yeah. And what was the dragon dragon on wheels from, from Baton? Well, yeah, all of our favorite

[00:32:00] listeners have, uh, some pretty, pretty amazing handles. So just to reiterate Mike, it would be lovely. For us to be able to keep on spreading the word around the world. We've had some amazing listeners with amazing handles from amazing corners of the globe. And it really, really gets us excited and keeps us inspired when we do hear from you guys from our listeners and thank you for signing up and following us on social media channels and so on. And also if you do get in touch with us, let us know who you'd like us to learn from next. Absolutely. Absolutely. But let's turn our minds now back to Malcolm Gladwell and the ticket, taking the tipping points. See he's I'm at such a tipping point. I can't even think straight now. It's amazing. So inspiring. We've got some really practical, um, short little clips here. To kind of round out the show where we're going to hopefully uncover

[00:33:00] some of the key things that we can all do to create our own tipping points and for us to be tipping points ourselves. And we're going to start that with a very short explanation, um, of this idea of the law of the few. One law of the few. It has always been like this, but particularly in this digital era, a tiny percentage of people, such as connectors, mavens, and salesmen are responsible for building huge momentum because of their influence. Such a group of people single-handedly creates many trends around us today. For those who don't know, Maven is an expert who has extensive knowledge and understanding of his subject and is always willing to pass on to his followers. Is someone who knows almost everyone and connects people across different industries and communities, salesmen, such a person is charismatic. It has the ability to influence others, buying decisions with effective communication

[00:34:00] skills. Whoa. I like that. Very, very, like you say, very fast, very quick. And it's really useful to listen to this point, because we've already heard examples of these individuals. So, you know, Paul revet, he sounds like a connector to me, right, Mike? He does indeed. And what it makes me do is think about the next time I'm going to tell the story and I want it to catch on. I need to make sure that there's kind of three, the key people. So this could be within your company. This could be more broader, still out to your customers, to your stakeholders, but you're going to need a Maven. Who's like the guru, who's got deep, deep expertise, but yeah, they've got to work hand in hand with a connector who knows everyone, a super connector. But then we also need salespeople and this is really people who enjoy, um, getting people to act upon the ideas and the

[00:35:00] endorsements and the connections that come from the connector and the movement. So that's the big three, the Maven, the connected the salesperson. So the rule here is if you're going to go tell a story, make sure. You've got these three people, um, these three archetypes, and maybe you have multiple of these. I think a way of thinking about it is just make sure you don't have a connector and a salesperson, but you lack the endorsement. From a Maven or if you've got the endorsement from a Maven or an institution that endorses your idea, whether it's a newspaper or a university, whatever, make sure that if you do have that Maven, you pair them with a connector and you've got people going out there and pitching the story, because if it's a great story, then it's worth, worth telling and, you know, salesperson. Might sound a little, uh, easy, but listen, really, someone's going to go, go, go out there and pitch an idea. And if it's a great idea, [00:36:00] if it's going to be a positive idea, Then don't be shy, get out there and spread the word. So that they're the golden three. What do you take out of the golden three Mark? When you think about the next store you're going to, well, actually it also triggers my memory of one of our early shows with Adam Grant. On the three archetypes that Adam would, would work on. So the givers, the takers and the matches, and I believe that there's a consistency here with where Gladwell's talking as well as where grant comes from, where you do need a good mixture of these individuals within your organization. Don't you don't want to be too out weighted, like you just said with too many maybe connectors or you don't want too many takers or matches once you've built the. The bus has had as, as we've, uh, we've experienced in the past. If you get the right people around in the business, then this [00:37:00] law of the few can really start to drive that change and drive the epidemic that you're trying to instill. But at the same time, you don't necessarily want to miss out on this element of the stickiness. So in this next short clip, which is going to. Uh, revisit as well as dig into a little bit more around what the stickiness factor is all about. To the stickiness factor where you or your children ever hooked on Sesame street or blues clues. Do you know why? Because the messages envisioned in these shows are sticky. They grab your attention right away and you just can't get them out of your head. Similarly, you can add stickiness to your message by including interesting stories, audience participation, and repetition. Always remember that success often hinges on small details rather than major changes. Therefore. Yourself. Does your message have the power to influence if not, then find the right stickiness factor for your audience? Yeah. [00:38:00] Look, I just reflect on this is like, there are so many ways to tell a story to make it sticky and, um, Something that was mentioned earlier in the show, this idea of testing and learning and refining. My thing is like, start with, so you've got the core narrative, but you've got to find out the right form for this story to take. Don't just assume the first idea is the right idea. Have a couple of horses in the race and test and learn, and you'll be amazed at how easy you can test an idea or proposition a headline, an image. I think this is essential because let's say, you know, who you want to tell the story you've got your connectors and your mavens and your salespeople. You've got to make sure that they've got the right form, the right shape. Um, that the, the story that gives you the goosebumps, that delights you. And I think, you know, [00:39:00] we can, if I think about my experience, this is probably one area where. I see a lot of companies and organizations falling into doing the same old story, telling the same old way. And that's why something that comes to mind, you have a really unusual and compelling, sticky story. Was the recent Nike, um, television ad where they had, uh, it was all a symmetry of, uh, pros and amateurs, but they were doing exactly the same movements and they, uh, did a cut screen. Did you see that one, Mark? I did. I did another classic. Amazing Nike ad. Right? What, but what a great example of stickiness, like very simple story, but told in such a sticky way. Hm. Yeah, you're totally right. And, and again, it harks back to this, [00:40:00] um, this element of, you know, testing, learning, influencing, you know, you've got your pros. Essentially influencing or inspiring those amateurs and. When you, uh, when you, you and your son, you know, get into the skate park or maybe onto the basketball court, I bet you, there's an element of your imagination's going through the moves of Michael Jordan or maybe Tony Hawks. I don't know. And this, this concept of stickiness, the story telling in a Nike ad, again, we're going to remember this. It's going to get down and all, you know, memories. And when we are next on the track and field or on the court, those sort of influences and elements will remain in our mind. Right. That's absolutely right. That's you know, that emotional signature that gets created gets [00:41:00] hardcoded into our. Um, into our bodies because essentially when a story is really sticky and at resonates with us, what happens is we have this high emotional peak. And that's why I remember really emotional time for so long because they get like a permanent record in the database. It's non erasable. Absolutely. Hard-coded and that's, that's just the beauty of storytelling. So. Um, wonderful, wonderful stuff on stickiness, the law of the few, but this one last rule is a memo. There is, there is there's one last little clip that we want to listen to. Again, a nice short one. This one is similar to where we went in the previous couple of clips being inspired, thinking about epidemics. This final one is now thinking about what is the power of context in our world. Three, the power of context [00:42:00] to explain this rule in a simple manner, let's use broken window theory. As an example, according to the theory, broken windows in a neighborhood leads to higher violent crime rates, but based on the power of context, the crime rate can be reduced by fixing the windows rather than arresting people for crime. Just like this. You can always shape people's behavior by changing the context and managing their social group. Mm. I mean this idea, um, just to expand on this broken windows theory, the power of context, part of the transformation of New York was that they said we won't allow people to litter anymore because it's such a symbol of, um, um, you know, if you're allowed to lead it, then you're allowed to commit major crime. So they would have the streets cleaned every night, every night. Um, when the trains were put away, if they were graffiti during the, [00:43:00] the night, they would be scrubbed down and they wouldn't allow graffiti chains to travel because they felt that when people saw graffiti on the train, this was a message to them that, um, you know, that. They were okay with a lowering the standards of safety and, and crime. So for me, this is all about context setting. The context means saying what works and what we're against saying what we believe in and what we don't believe. And you have the power to create. That clarity. So three big fundamental tips here, the lore of the few, the stickiness and the power of context. I mean, Oh, wow. I mean, you could almost just spend hours just brainstorming around this for your next idea, because it just gives you such a clear roadmap to tell the story, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. And that final one, the power of context, I think, is. You know, the state, the [00:44:00] stickiness one for me really, really, you know, float to the top because I'm obsessed with, you know, checking with the customers as to whether our response, our product is right for them or not. And, you know, we, you and I have a number of different tools and techniques in order to do that. The power of context is another one that I think we find out when we actually speak to. Customers on the phone or in one, on one interviews, I believe this is something that is quite easy to forget. What, what, what is the world? What is the situation? What is the context that your product or your idea is coming out into? You know, not only are we creating, maybe it's a, yeah. An app or a, or a device or a behavior, whatever it is. It's going out into the world at a certain period of time and a fixed moment. Well, let's be aware of the context right now. We're in a pandemic. That's a, that's a valuable and significant context and knowing, and having the [00:45:00] awareness of what's around us right then is so important when considering. How a story is going to respond or how a customer's going to buy our product. Isn't it knowing those three lessons that we've just gone over is it's like the golden rules. Look, I, I think this is, um, the environment, um, is it's so important to understand that. So the question is, um, how, how do you. Test learn and understand the context. Like if I said to you, okay, I want you to go and tell a story to consumers. What would you do, Mark, if you wanted to understand the context? Yeah. I think doing a understanding of baseline would have to come first. So understanding what is currently out there, how are people feeling from a, maybe a quantifiable perspective? How is the. Location, [00:46:00] obviously remember where, when, you know, you're not always launching into one specific city or town in the world, you know, global, everybody has different opinions and cultures and so on. So I think you'd have to start with a foundation. And from there, you'd be able to build maybe something a little bit like, uh, at an interview guide or a discussion guide that you could then take to an actually verbalize. With a customer in that particular, particular location. So a little bit about, okay, well, what am I building on? And then going to ask them why that is the case. That for me, I think is, is the kind of, you know, step isn't it understanding getting in front of a customer and having a real company session with them and asking them why they feel like this? Why is this situation like that? Yeah, I definitely think, um, to continue that line of [00:47:00] thinking, I would say if you want to create context, For your story. I think the key thing to do is understand where people are and not where you as the storyteller or is that, but where your audience is at. And I think that you, you need to ensure that through. Surveys, uh, research, uh, interviews, whatever the tools you choose to make sure that you understand where people are at in terms of behaviors. But I would also say. An important thing to add to is where they are at in terms of their attitudes. And then you can judge the best way to present your idea. Maybe your idea is pushing off of avoiding a pain, but it could be better said as [00:48:00] appreciating and enjoying again, that could be the same product, the same story, the same service, but you could push off on two very different ways. The way you can judge that is understanding the context. And I think this is so good because we've just got such a robust model that we can use. Thanks to Malcolm Gladwell. If we want to create these tipping points, if we want to create positive change in the world, it's going to take more than just the story, the idea itself, it needs to be. Said, shared and advocated by the right people. It's going to be super sticky and engaging. You just want to watch it time and time again. And lastly, it's got to fit into this broader context. Ah, what a great the lesson in storytelling is so good. So good Glenn. Remember, just to reiterate, this was his debut book. Taking science and thinking about virality, thinking about business, thinking about [00:49:00] marketing storytelling, that it's just so good. What a way to begin the Gladwell series. I totally agree. I totally agree. And you know, this idea of storytelling, I don't think we should think of this is just something that happens. You know, when you make a film or you make a, an advertisement. I think this is just my fundamentally about communication. I think we've all got amazing ideas that we want to share. Sometimes it takes a fair bit of work to package it that I do well. And I think it's not being disingenuous. I think it's realizing that your audience has its perception of the world. Which is based on their experience and look everyone's experience is different. So there's all these different perceptions out there. So when I say to you, great weather, if you live, uh, on a [00:50:00] beautiful beach in Northern Australia, you're going to think of sunshine, but if you're in Vail or if you're in the Swiss out, you might think right where that means we just had two foot of snow last night. Totally different, uh, um, uh, perception based on your context. And I think that the art of communication has never been more important. Whether you want to inspire people to join a movement, to participate in an idea, be part of a community or whether your community is close to home. Maybe that's your neighborhood. Maybe that's your company, your capacity to communicate. We'll give people information and inspiration on which they can change or adopt new behaviors. They can do stuff. And to wrap up this big, deep dive into the world, storytelling this world of communication. [00:51:00] We've got the man himself, mr. Malcolm Gladwell, really bringing it all home for the last clip of the show, which is all about communication is King. Well, people need to understand that the most important aspect in the safety of a plane is not the plane itself. It's not the hardware, it's the pilots. And in particular, it's how the pilots communicate. And if they can communicate openly and honestly, and clearly they can minimize their chances of crashing and their ability to communicate in that way is a function of their culture. Culture is where. A subordinate has difficulty speaking up to, uh, uh, to their boss, have more plane crashes because they can't share information in a cockpit the way they should and cultures where there is where bosses and subordinates are on the same level, have fewer plane crashes, because it's easy for them to share information that way. Perfect. The technique and improve [00:52:00] the culture to remove uncertainty. It again, it kind of seems pretty. Um, unsurprising, but actually it's quite confronting when you think, well, hang on. Why don't I start by understanding the context of who I'm talking to. Why don't I take the time to learn about that customer before trying to sell them a product? Then I need to know where I'm going. Yeah. I mean, it's just crazy. Isn't that the major drivers safety is not the hardware. It's just how the people are talking and what a metaphor for sports teams, something I've said on the show a lot, you could just tell a great sports team. By the amount of communication you see happening the field. Likewise, if you look at a great company, it's not only that they have all these talented people, but they're working together. And the essence of working together is collaboration. And you can only collaborate if you can [00:53:00] communicate and our choice. This is for who we tell. How we tell it to make it sticky and the context so that they perceive and they take in these messages. So crucial. And we've been just so fortunate today that Malcolm Gladwell has given us the roadmap he's given us the one, two, three steps. I mean, Mark, what? I mean, we love storytelling. We work in it so much, but. I have found this incredibly refreshing, uh, to kind of reinvigorate my, my storytelling sort of frameworks and models. How about you? Yeah, exactly. Reiterating that, that sentiment, you know, it is enabling me to learn and perfect those models and practical steps that I might have in place when considering a story or a narrative or a plan. You know those one, two, three jab, jab, jab by Gladwell. It's

[00:54:00] something that all of us can, you know, remember look back on and utilize in the next bit of work that we have. It seems so valuable. Exactly. Well, Mike, that is a whole package, uh, of storytelling and communication that hopefully for you Mark and for all of our listeners creates a little bit of a tipping point, but we're not done with Malcolm Gladwell yet. Allie. Nope. Well, this is just the beginning of our four part series of Malcolm Gladwell. Today was the tipping point. Next week we've got his book blink. Following that we got outliers and then closing the Malcolm Malcolm Gladwell series is David and Goliath for enormous books of his nice. All right, Mark. Well, listen, thank you for helping me decode the world of tipping points of storytelling and communication, and thank you to you. All of our listeners, it's been a wonderful. A fast paced rollercoaster rides through the

[00:55:00] valleys, in the peaks of storytelling and communication. It's a book, the tipping point by Malcolm Gladwell. I've certainly enjoyed it. I can't wait for our next part of the Malcolm Gladwell series. So wherever you're listening, part of the moonshots family, whether you're in Romania, Philippines, Portugal, Indonesia, Malaysia, you betcha. We love hearing from you. We love. To share with you what we learn as we learn together from innovating. So join us next time for the moonshots coast. That's a wrap.