Esther Wojcicki
EPISODE 83
In episode 83, we explore the wisdom of Esther Wojcicki & T.R.I.C.K; lessons for radical results, based on Trust, Respect, Independence, Collaboration & Kindness.
Often called the Godmother of Silicon Valley, legendary teacher, author, role model for Silicon Valley legends such as Steve Jobs (and his daughter Lisa), and the mother of three successful daughters.
SHOW OUTLINE
INTRO
What can we learn about being successful
The definition of success (3m16)
RAISING SUCCESS
We are all a product of our environment; snapshot of Esther’s children
Upbringing and education (46s)
Believe in others, and embrace mistakes
Making mistakes is ok (37s)
KEY LESSONS FROM T.R.I.C.K
Trust starts with us, but impacts many
The value of trust (1m39)
Innovation comes from working together
Collaboration is king (29s)
Innovation comes from listening to others, and that starts with respect
Respect and receive feedback (1m57)
OUTRO
When thinking about failure, it has to be embedded in company culture
Embrace failure (1m23)
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It is episode 83, some might say it's a Shrinky episode. You'll have to wait and see. I built my past as neutral. I have the man who's got a bag of tricks. It's none other than my Pearson Freeland. Hello, Mark. Good morning, Mike. How are you doing on this? Uh, it was pretty cool and nice wintery Sydney morning again.
Wasn't it? It was, it was, um, I would say fresh this morning and is nothing more fresher than jumping from a social media guru to someone who is incredibly capable in a totally different place. An author. An [00:01:00] educator and some might say a supermom. Who are we going to learn from today? Mark was very excited to announce that today we're getting into esto, which is ski or watch too many of our friends and admirers around the world who is, as you say, a.
They emerge in the Silicon Valley space. Not only is she a very well renowned teacher and lecturer, um, she inspired a lot of Silicon Valley legends, including Steve jobs, but very interestingly she's also. Very famous for raising three incredibly well known and successful daughters, including Susan, the CEO of YouTube and the founder and CEO of 23.
And me. And Janet Fulbright, winning anthropologists, as well as assistant professor of pediatrics and research. I mean, what, what a [00:02:00] character, is there anything that this lady, uh is there anything that she does not. Do I mean, I am pretty blown away. She might be the most broadly accomplished person that we've studied.
It is, it is phenomenal. Isn't it? It really is. I just have, I need to take a breath after that summarization of her ground synopsis, such an incredible range and such a huge wealth of, um, Well known items and things that she's, she's attached to incredible. It is. It really is. And you might be thinking to yourself, Hmm.
What does Mark and Mike up to here? We have an author. We have an educator, an academic and a supermom all in the one person. But how does that relate [00:03:00] to. Being on a mission going for your own moonshot, building design and creating a product, a business. Um, how does this all tie together at Walmart? I think the lessons we can learn from her are so incredibly powerful lessons.
It's so much about how you think. And secondly, how you interact with others. And just as a reminder, her three daughters, CEO of YouTube, CEO of 23 and me award winning anthropologists. So there you go. That is enough for me to say, okay, Esther knows a thing or two. And, um, whilst some of her. Uh, lessons maybe framed, um, more from maybe raising children or a family basis.
The, the direct parallels that it has for being a [00:04:00] professional in the digital knowledge, age, being part of teams and working with others, this intersects with our work so beautifully across such a wide span of innovators and entrepreneurs. Buckle in, because I think this one is going to be really, really exciting.
Mark. Where do we start our Esther journey while we've done a, a big, deep dive into a huge amounts of clips. And today, what we've. We've handpicked is a variety of clips. Like you say, Mike, that we think are the perfect lessons and models that we can apply to our collaboration and work, uh, in our careers.
But to set the scene, we thought that a quick introduction from master with regards to success could be useful because once we have a foundation, as well as a definition of success, we can learn how to build on it and only get [00:05:00] better. So here's Esther. Teaching us a little bit about how she defines success.
Well, actually this is a really good question because a lot of people ask me, so what do I think success is? And I think a common standard of success is that you earn a lot of money or you have a really long title. And that seems very important. And. So I want you to know my success. Definition of success is not either one of those two.
I think that you need enough money to have a place to live food, to put on the table, you know, trips that you want to take, but being a billionaire doesn't. Qualify as success in my book. Unless for some reason you are, then you have a purpose that you are going to use your billions to somehow make a difference in the world.
[00:06:00] And if I look around at a lot of the billionaires that I know, I think that they're working on. You know, getting, figuring out what they want to do in order to make a difference in the world. I mean, some of them, speaking of like bill Gates, for example, he has more of an idea. Maybe it's because he's been doing it longer.
So the malaria, he wants to get rid of malaria, you know, he believes in donating all his money with the exception of 1%. To some way to improve the world. And he's very passionate about it. And I would say he's got a lot of people surrounding him that are working on the same mission. So I would say that, you know, he represents somebody who I think is.
Pretty successful because he has not, he has the resources to do what he wants, but you don't have [00:07:00] to have a billion dollars. You know, there's a lot of people, a lot of kids, students that are doing a lot of very successful things. They have a passion in life. They have enough resources to live a pretty.
Comfortable situation as a student or maybe 20, 25, 30 year old, and they're working on something that they care about and they have a sense of control. So I think that they believe in themselves. They trust themselves and they are not checking left and right. To see what the neighbor thinks or what the relatives think or what their parents think.
They're actually doing something where they feel in control and supported and working on a project that they care about. So that is part of my definition of success.
Working on something you care about. [00:08:00] It does reframe it. It's not about the big title. It's not about the big salary. It's about working on something that you care about. So I guess the question then becomes my, how do you know, uh, when you've got the thing that you care about that you want to pursue? In a career.
So how did, how do you do that? Uh, I mean, it's, it's great as a nice, um, good clip because it reminds us of this idea of passion of caring about what we do. Um, but ultimately I think it also frames it in a. An ownership perspective. You know, I have control over caring about things. Don't worry. I can rephrase it, but Mark, you're, you're avoiding terrible.
I'd have to call you out. I'm going to pull you back. I mean, I love your country, but how do you know, how do you do this? Well, look, I think it's, I think it's a great [00:09:00] segue to. Go back to Simon Sinek. You know, it's starting with why it's starting with, uh, you know, all the billionaires esta knows, um, you know, once they've understood what they care about and that's what they, what they're going to do for me.
I think it's the same. You've got to start with why you've got to have the passion at the forefront as well as the core. Of what you're doing and therefore you can analyze and see whether it's work you care about or not. I mean, for me, I, I know when I care about it and when I'm passionate about a project, because I get pretty excited, I mean all the way to the end point, when I'm really excited by something, I'll get goosebumps, you know, we're doing technology projects right now and.
You know, when we're talking about different ways of testing it and what ultimately the product will do. You know, that gives me goosebumps because I think, wow, this is totally brand new. That feels like an innovation. So I think animalistic side, where your [00:10:00] body actually reacts. Yeah, but also I think there's this, this enjoyment side where, you know, you kind of smile and you look forward to learning more.
I mean, what about you Mike, to turn the lamp around for a second? How do you know working on Sunday that you really care about? Well, I'll deliberately answer it, um, in a different way to each year. Cause I love the idea of what gets you excited. Um, What things really matter to you, and you can use the Simon Sinek Y framework to kind of uncover that, but to jump off from that point, like from a cerebral kind of mental model perspective, I would use the following construct.
I would start the sentence. I deeply, truly passionately believe insert something. And that is where you will start to answer the question. So. I [00:11:00] believe right. Is a way of saying, well, what really matters to you? And then you can do some interesting things on top of that is you can say, I believe that insert cause or movement or thing will have a really positive impact on me, my community, or maybe the world around me.
If you can use that construct. And if you start to explore what you might put in to that gap, into that blank. This is a way to get to working on something that you might care about more. I like that. It feels very, very honest. And it's quite confronting if I worked with that, I deeply believe that shot's is an amazing podcast.
That's how I believe that. Whereas if I was to flip around and say, I deeply believe that I am an author who deserves recognition. I don't believe that so much. It's a great model because quite quickly you can. You know, dispel [00:12:00] and get between different ideas and no to yourself. Whether it's true or not. I like that a lot.
Yeah. So there's, there's a lot there and redefining success. So, um, there's just so much coming up about your intrinsic and extrinsic modes of thinking and behavior. Uh, there's a lot ahead of us in this show from Esther. And if you wanted. Dive into a world of show notes, maybe, uh, after the Esther show, you want to learn how to tell your story and you want to check out the Gary V show or maybe your looking for some sporty inspiration, and you want to dig into the world of Serina or Michael Jordan.
Mark. Where would everyone go to find such great sources of inspiration? You can go and be [00:13:00] inspired@wwwdotmoonshots.io. We've got 82 shows. Well, it'll be 83. When you're listening to this one up online, we've got show notes for every single one of them. We've got transcripts, we've got additional documents.
We've got a little bit of a tease on some of the upcoming shows later in this year, 2020. I mean, hoof. Mantras as well. There's all sorts of goodies and a treasure trove of inspiration waiting to be found. And, uh, if Esther is really doing it for you, we encourage all of you to give us a rating or review.
And in the true spirit of. We have the audience with the coolest usernames and user handles. We've received feedback, um, from actually beef bill yawn, he got so excited. He's just emailing us now. Yeah. We've had feedback from Canada and Germany, but once again, uh, we explore some [00:14:00] really far, far corners of this universe where none, other than the sender of, uh, one of our messages from one of our.
Awesome audience was none other than dragon on wheels and Mark, where does dragon on wheels? Hell from dragon on wheels. Sends us a lovely review, sending us kudos from Bhutan. Thank you, dragon on wheels for getting in touch. We love that you reached out to us. We appreciate you leaving us a little bit of us and reviews.
Hello, Bhutan and Mark. You informed me that they are the happiest people on the planet. Is this correct? This is what I've heard. This is what I've heard in deeper. Maybe one day we'll do a moonshots live tour and we'll, we'll be in Baton. There you go well, dragon on wheels. Um, uh, do a follow up. We need to know why you guys are so happy.
Maybe you're just spreading the moonshots inspiration, where we learn from innovators, but let's [00:15:00] get back into the learning let's dig into now. Let's start. Thinking about things such as education upbringing and sort of the environmental context. So let's have a listen, uh, to Esther talking about the role.
Of environment in our upbringing. So I was actually very excited to have kids because it meant that I could try out all my education philosophy on them. And they were kind of my little Guinea pigs. My goal was how can I make them as capable and independent as possible? I want them to think of themselves as I can do it.
So my daughter, Susan, the oldest one is the CEO of YouTube and Janet is a. That's sort of pediatrics that UCF medical school. And then Anne is a CEO of 23 and eight. Um, you know, I wrote this book called how to raise successful people. The [00:16:00] story of the way that we bring our children up as a parents and an educators impacts our business world and our democracy.
This is great because the lesson we can learn and what we can take away from this, a mentally it's quite a family focused reflection here, you know, philosophy on, on raising kids as a, as an experiment almost, uh, to learn from it. For me, it's great because the independence that she calls out is so real.
In business. It's so real in our careers, working with others, working with colleagues as well as external partners, when we can empower others. And we can ourselves say, I can do this, or we can get somebody else to say, I can do this. The work is just so much better. Isn't it, Mike? It is, it is all about, I mean, I don't know how you can work in the modern [00:17:00] age if you haven't got the right context because without the right environment, without, uh, setting yourself up, um, to connect, collaborate, and work with others, that is a pretty, it's pretty meager pickings.
One might say. Um, and now that we can see. In her own words, she tried all these different approaches. She's embodied this in the Shrek model. T R I C K. So just Google as Esther, uh, and the trick model. And you'll get lots of links, but here's the key thing. What she's got installed for us now is really how we should start that interface.
Um, start that collaboration and in the, in a very fundamental way with other people around us. So think about your teammates, your peers, maybe your clients. It's all about coming together and. [00:18:00] A key part of this that we can learn from is how we might embrace mistakes. So let's jump into it now and start thinking how we can believe in others.
You know, they made mistakes. I made mistakes. We all make mistakes. That's that's life, but you don't give up. You keep going. You do whatever it is. That is important to you. Again, this is a great practical bit of advice coming from Esther. Again, framed with raising her very successful children, but. [00:19:00] We can learn a lot from this, because if we can give others the skills to do great job, we will guarantee ourselves to succeed.
Yes. We might have speed bumps along the way. Maybe there'll be the odd moment of learning or maybe even making a mistake, but that's okay. Because when you've empowered somebody else to take ownership or to go and do a job and learn themselves, that's when. You know, both parties, I think grow, we evolve, we learn new skills.
We learn how to collaborate. Um, as well as find out as to say, find out what we care about, find our why. Yeah. And I think, um, this really makes me think about moments where. We should be giving skills to our peers and to our colleagues. I think it's very easy to make the mistake of saying it's quicker if I do it.
[00:20:00] Okay. So we then trap ourselves into these immense workloads because we think we're the only Superman superwoman who can do the job. But if you take a position of what skills. What behaviors can I teach mentor and coach in to the people around me. It is the greatest gift because if you do this and.
Except that, you know, a little along the way, there might be a couple of mistakes, but the opportunity that she paints for us is that they can follow their passions. They can follow their interests, they can work on what they care about. They can become the very best version of themselves. And what I think is really interesting is.
If you ask yourself, what can I teach to my, my colleagues? What can I teach to my teammates? I think it's, it starts to evoke like, Oh, [00:21:00] uh, yeah, I probably do know a lot of stuff. And here's the next one. When was the last time you sat down and really taught a teammate how to do something? You're really good at it.
And I think what a lot of us are going to find is that that was quite a while ago. I mean, I can 100% state that there have been times in my career when I turn around and rather than giving another person the opportunity to do it, I think it's quicker if I do it. It'll take me a fraction of the time. So don't worry.
I'll do it thinking that it's practical thinking it's efficient, but what I'm doing actually is robbing that other person have the opportunity to learn. Like I did.
I think this idea of, uh, you know, being thrown into the deep end and having to learn on the job, having to react [00:22:00] to things is such a valuable and practical way to learn. But you can only do it if it's, if the opportunity lands on your plate. And so let me ask you this question, Mark. Um, coming, coming back, uh, one step, tell, tell me about a moment that you remember when someone showed you how to do something and, um, how it felt when you were like, Oh, That's how you do it.
Can you remember a moment like that? Yeah. Yeah. I th I think it will probably be towards the beginning of, of maybe even my, my involvement with, with, with you Mike, um, possibly connected even to, to moonshots. And when you start, when I started to really get into some of the practical stuff, I started thinking, Oh God, I feel some great reward here.
This is I'm doing, I'm creating [00:23:00] something, whether it's, um, a practical technological thing, you know, maybe it's uploading something as simple as the show notes or whether it's all the way through to us, us doing the show itself. I think once you've been able to do something yourself a few times, it's pretty, it's pretty empowering.
Isn't it? I felt great. I, I remember Tom, she, uh, who had just spent a long time at Google X sat me down and explained. And over a course of weeks taught me about rapid prototyping and it. Oh, I talk about the joy of a light bulb moment. I had given up a career on Madison Avenue and dived into a world in Silicon Valley.
And one of the biggest questions for me is like, where is the repeatable model method framework to make successful products? Cause I [00:24:00] sort of learned what that looked like from doing. You know, successful ad campaigns, but I was very, very green and fresh when it came to doing the same thing for product.
And when I understood what rapid prototyping was, when I practice it, when he told me it was like such like a rocket, like a light bulb moment, and the reason I want to kind of call this out. Is do not underestimate that we all hold great skills. Everybody can actually be the best at something in the world.
And if you remember that and ask yourself, when was the last time I taught somebody, took the time to sit down. I'm talking 60, 90 minutes, maybe several times over the course of weeks or months, and really taught them something. I think if we remembered the joy. If we remember [00:25:00] the aha moment that we have felt, then I find that great motivation to share our skills with others and to embrace them and embrace the mistakes they might make.
But if you fundamentally sit down and teach someone something, what you're saying indirectly is I believe in you. I believe you can do this too. And when they realize that it's not just the aha, the cognitive aha, I get it, how it works, but it's also the swagger and the skip in their step. When they know they can do something and apply it to something that they care about with which Esther has also talked about.
Um, I think that's when things really start together, don't get together. Don't you Mark? Yeah, I do. You're right. What happens? Is, you know, you learn or rapid prototyping Tom sheet. I remember when you and I started collaborating together, you were teaching me about it and you're right. There was a great empowerment and, and, [00:26:00] um, enjoyment that I experienced when I started to.
Get my own light bulb moment. And that for me is, is so, so valuable. You know, you feel great about yourself, but also you feel like you're a little bit of a pro you, I call like they use it sort of referring to. So to the natural inclination would be if a situation arose at work. That you would, that one would think, Oh no, it's fine.
I'll do it. But actually you're right. It's a great encouragement from Esther here saying no, no. Remember much like in a family situation, your team or those around you, and all of them are looking for opportunities to continue learning, to continue getting better. And if we all take time to teach one another, it goes against that old saying you're as strong as your weakest link.
You know, unless you put in the time to strengthen those links of a [00:27:00] chain and upscale or teach colleagues and other teammates, you're never, never going to get much stronger. You know, you can't all rely on one individual knowing absolutely everything. You need a team of like minded individuals to be successful.
Exactly. Exactly. So this is, if we talk about raising success, creating a successful environment, then it really does start with believing in others and asking yourself. When was the last time I taught someone a skill or iMac, we had definitely, definitely started to get into the world of Esther, chit ski.
Um, it's getting pretty damn good. And what I love. What I love is everything we're talking about in the context of family and parenting. We've handpicked these particular attributes of Estes [00:28:00] trick model and applied them to business and to teams, creativity. Um, but Mark, there is plenty more to come. There is so much more to come and let's just, I just want to have a breath for a second.
I feel as though, uh, which had skis, she's taught us already so much, um, I think, should we show it? Let I encourage everybody to again, visit moonshots.io. If you want to find out more about the trick model, um, you know, we'll put up a graphic as well as a couple of links directing you to go and pick up Esther's book trick.
I'm available in many, many retailers, because there's so much to learn there. Isn't. Yeah. It's um, it's action packed, but let's, let's unpack this model. Yeah. Talking about the handpicking. What we've done is we've picked a number of key lessons that we believe are really intrinsically linked into our.
Business and day to day, uh, career lifestyle. [00:29:00] So, um, we're going to go through a couple of different clips. First one that we thought we'd start with is very, very true to a lot of the statements that we've said on the moonshot show before. And for many, I think this is so, so valuable and I'm so pleased that we can call it out, especially since it's the first at T.
Within Esther's trick model. So this is Esther telling us a little bit about where the value of trust can come in and how it impacts many around us. So let me just tell you what a trick is and what everybody's using. Trick check is the acronym in my book. And I recommend of course by book, because it has lots of stories.
And the stories are what people remember. They don't remember data, they remember store. And so I have stories about Trek, trust, respect, independence, collaboration, and kindness. And so I have [00:30:00] stories about what is it like to have trust in your home and trust in your relationships trust in the classroom.
W what does trust bring to a student that they haven't had before? And if you just think in your own life, if somebody that you respect, trusts, you just imagine how you feel about yourself. And that's what I build on in the classroom. I trust those kids to be able to reach the academic levels that I have.
Cause they're pretty hard, which means that they then trust themselves to be able to do the same thing. And the first, as a lot of scaffolding, the first time I'm doing it, they need a lot of support, but each time they do it, they need less and less support. And. I mean I can travel, which I [00:31:00] do. And I can tell you students can do things without a lot of scaffolding, a lot of support because they've been trust and believe in themselves.
The big T the big trust word. I can't, I'm trying to think of something that is so critical to teams working well. That is hardly ever. Disgust the greatest hiring, isn't it? Yep. You're you're your ride began. It's so valuable. It's so intrinsically. Linked to all of the traits that you would, um, put against good teamwork, you know, collaboration, communication, um, you know, working hard, um, everybody being the same level and so on, it all comes out of trust and similar to the last clip when we were just talking about it, once you give others skills and you empower them to learn, um, to, to the same pace, your.
You're only going to get stronger. And what I [00:32:00] love about this, um, admission, or maybe point the S this point out is the first time you do it, it is difficult. And you do, you may have to build a little bit of scaffolding in order to allow your, um, your colleague, your teammates, um, that bandwidth, that, that ability to, you know, maybe swing in the breeze a little bit while they're learning.
And I think that's, that's a good note here, which is. Allow people to trust people, to learn, to work hard and in the exact same way, allow them to trust you and not attack them. If it doesn't land straight away, you know, make sure you've built that element of trust, that scaffolding of trust around them to allow them to grow and learn as, as teammates that that I think is a great point.
That's just calling out. Yeah. What, when, w what do you think trust looks like? At [00:33:00] work in the office, trying to make something come together. When are the moments that you, you personally feel, uh, that you're trusted, like what's happened? Try and explain those moments to us? I think from a practical day to day example, we, uh, we might be collaborating with our team in Europe and.
We've had a big discussion. Maybe it's a big review. Maybe we're preparing for a big presentation and we get to a certain area or phase or deliverable and we discuss it and we all leave knowing. Okay, well, Mark is in control of this. I would feel a great relief if. I've trusted another individual to help me or another individual to perhaps deliver an item.
But also I think there's a good level of confidence [00:34:00] that comes from being trusted. There's a good courage. When I know that my team are looking to me to go and deliver when they've trusted me to do something, I want to work my hardest and. Do it, well, I want to, I want to pull as hard as I can in order to deliver a product or a line item or deliverable that lives up to the trust that I have received.
And I think that what's, um, really fun is trust compounds. So when you've got a group of people that trust in each other, um, It just gets better and better because if everybody respects that trust that they have built and they sustain it, then I think, um, teams can do amazing things. It is, it's really incredible that that trust that was so important in the workplace, particularly now with distributed virtual [00:35:00] teams, like you just gotta trust that they're on it because.
Now you can't just walk down the hallway and say, hi, you, you miss that. So trust is being exposed even more. But the craziest thing is it's exactly the same in a family or even in a sports team. Like if you take the sports team analogy, the value of trust is that teammates will know that their fellow team members.
We'll be there when they need them to throw the past, to catch the ball, to block, to tackle whatever the job is. That trust is crucial because great teams have this amazing confidence, which is born in the trust for each other. So it's the same on the pitch as it is in the boardroom. It all comes down to that.
And so giving that trust, uh, to yourself, but also trusting in others and [00:36:00] building them up is a huge lesson that we can take from Esther and her trick model. Isn't it? It really is. I think the reason why she begins it begins with trust within her model is we have all experienced the inverse. So when there's distrust or when you're worried about trusting someone else, there's a lot of anxiety.
There's a lot of unknown. And you know, that, that comes with a lot of like a lack of confidence and it's pretty negative, isn't it? So there's a huge positivity that comes with trust that you just can't. Uh, you can't build or do anything else unless you have that trust as a foundation point. I believe so I think it's that fundamental, uh, agreement.
And, um, there's, there's a number of other great leadership and team frameworks, um, that really pull out trust as well. So it's crazy that people who study the boardroom also find the [00:37:00] same patterns as Esther in, in raising a family. And what, um, comes to my mind is the five dysfunctions of a team, which, I mean, it's a.
Great. Um, a great book by Patrick Lencioni. And, um, what do you think is the foundation of his pyramid? So the five dysfunctions of a team talks about all the dynamics that happen, um, in a team. But Mark, just guess what word is it? The base of the pyramid? I reckon it's gotta be trust. There you go. And it's, it's your capacity to have debate, to get committed and focused on things, to build accountability in order to achieve the results.
I mean, we should almost do a whole show on Patrick note to self and to all of our listeners, if you'd like to. As to go into the world of Patrick [00:38:00] Lencioni, the five dysfunctions of a team, let us know. Um, and we might fast track it up the list because we've got a lot of, a lot of great shows coming up. Um, yeah.
So trust the underlying foundation, the central ingredient. I think what that does is it sets the scene when there's trust teams can start. To communicate, but they can go a step beyond, they can start to collaborate. So let's return to Esther and her trick model. Let's see how this working together becomes the source.
Of innovation, teach them how to collaborate.
Number one problem that we have in the world today is we don't know how to collaborate. If you don't know how to collaborate, it's going, it's going to fail. So companies, when you do a startup, the main thing that the venture capitalists look for is can you collaborate?
Can you work together? Do you have [00:39:00] trust and respect for each other? Because that is one of the most important things. You can have you can't collaborate well and be a success unless you have trust again, it's all coming back to this foundation. Isn't it, Mike? I like the idea that it's a real problem. If you can collaborate and work together and you can't rely on those around you.
The work won't matter, weight, no matter how hard you work, unless you've got the right people around you and everybody's working as one team collaborating correctly, it's just going to fail. And I think again, it's, I think Esther's obviously referencing here. Um, specifically in business and that's so true for us, right?
We, we see it all the time where we have to rely on our partners as well as our colleagues in order to deliver great work. Hmm, I think, I mean, this idea that collaboration [00:40:00] is King and, um, that it's more important than ever because you have to be very deliberate about your collaboration because you can't rely on some of that.
What we would call serendipitous at the water cooler at the coffee machine conversations. And so. I want to try and break down this collaboration thing, because frankly, it's what I love. My ideas always get 10 X when I share them and get feedback. And so I wanted to start that by, by one of my favorite.
Um, ways to collaborate is to invite others into the discussion to share, to cone ideas together. And I love it when we frame an idea or an opportunity or a solution around the, uh, very classic design thinking too, which is how might we. Dr. And I love [00:41:00] this idea of inviting conversation, inviting others, to collaborate, to share ideas, but also to take ownership together.
How might we build something that solves this problem? How might we make education radically better for students? How might we make transportation radically better for commuters? These sorts of questions, which you frame in the way and ask big, open questions. I think they really invite not only collaboration, but a chance for something special to happen.
So let me kick it to you, Mark. If you were. Just doing a small collaboration with our 10,000 or so listeners, what question, how would you frame the question? How would you want to spark collaboration if you're in that moment and you want to bring people in the fold? How do you do it? Or, yeah, it's a great question.
I think you're right. The design thinking approach is, is, is an absolute [00:42:00] staple for sure. I think. I think it would all come down to trying to, uh, maybe rally around a single thought perhaps. So maybe if, uh, to build on the, how might we, maybe there's a way of collaborating by focusing on, um, You know, a common goal.
So for example, if we want moonshots to be, uh, used, uh, heard all around the world, maybe it's focusing on the, what if. Methodology. What if we were the number one podcast? How might we get there? I like this one. This is you're doing very well.
So, you know, maybe we're asking, what about this? What about this? Like, just like guys, we we've, we've got a huge, [00:43:00] um, huge opportunity. Who's got some ideas on how we can get there. And this idea of like set up something real quick and then decide what do you guys think? You got some ideas, right? Yeah. Th there's an element of, of almost, uh, once upon a time we might've called it crowdsourcing, I suppose.
What do you guys think of this? And you invite all of our listeners to maybe get in touch and tell us what they think. You know, that's, that's a nice, very simple way to certainly collaborate with 10,000, I think. And I think what collaboration is not is. Somebody's dominating the conversation, trying to have all of the ideas.
I think what collaboration is, is creating time and space for others to contribute, to be heard, to be acknowledged. And then if you get that done, you can build on it. [00:44:00] So one of the things that. I think is really powerful with collaboration is adding two suggestions rather than cutting them down. You know, like I think great collaboration.
If you say, if you were to suggest something, I would say that's great. And as a build on that, to take that even further, that idea inspires me to think about this. This is such a powerful acknowledgement of others' contributions. So everybody can play a role in collaborating. And to coming up with this big idea, I think this, this is, uh, something we can all enjoy if we trust each other to your point, Mark.
If we have that trust as a foundation, and then this is the sort of collaboration that can happen. On top of it, it's quite a nice tool for criticism or feedback as well, actually. So rather than, um, one of our [00:45:00] listeners, you know, saying, Oh, and I don't agree with that instead, similar to what you were just saying, like we build on it.
Okay. Yes. I hear you. And what if we went to do this, or yes. And we could make it better by focusing on this. There's an element of, of reflection in order to build further. I liked that as a, as a behavior. Same here, same here, but now we've kind of got this architecture. You lay the trust. Then you collaborate on top.
Pest is still got more to give as to just keeps on, keeps on teaching us doesn't she, and the next lesson is actually. Um, similar to where we were talking about, uh, you know, we've covered trusting one another. We've gone over, uh, collaboration is King and it's their guide for great innovation and building on.
This collaboration. We really need to do one thing prior to really guaranteeing [00:46:00] collaboration is going to be so, so good. And what else is going to tell us a little bit about now is focusing on where you start and ESSA believes that starting with respect. Is how we can guarantee and build towards great innovation.
So here's Esther talking about respect. Here's one of the big ways that respect for students in their ideas and pact of me, I would hand out these evaluation forms to kids where they could tell me what they thought of, what I was doing in class. They would be they'd hand write them. They didn't have to put their name on it.
They would complain about whatever it was that I did that they didn't like or what I said. Also put some things down that you liked that you want to continue, but those forms, I mean, they helped shape the program because I listened to them and the things that they didn't like, I was like, you know, they're right.
It doesn't [00:47:00] work. And if it doesn't work for them, I'm going to have to stop doing it. And I did. So that's how the program has changed dramatically. And if you saw the newspaper, it's three sections with runs usually 20 to 28 pages. And it's the full size paper, the size of the New York times. And it's all done by students.
It's incredible. It's incredible. And their ideas. I can tell you, I respect their ideas. I mean, they set up a. Um, layout on the opinion pages that I thought, Oh my God, this is awful, but I let them do it. And you know, for a couple of years there, I was like, Oh, that's terrible. But you know, that's how new things start.
If we keep doing the same thing over and over again, then there's no innovation. So I let them do it. And actually they're in charge. So they do a lot of things that they want to do. And I respect their ideas and I'll tell you that respect, it [00:48:00] leads to self-respect that's, what's going on. They believe in themselves and respect themselves and respect each other and respect taking a chance.
You know, you don't get innovation by following the rules all the time. You get it by taking a risk. Whew. Okay. This, this might be the clip of the show. I think where we got to right there is the essence of esta. She is. Humble. She is a servant to her students. I mean, Mark, let me ask you this. How many times in your educational life did your teacher ask you to fill out a feedback form based on their performance?
I'm pretty sure. Never the simple answer. I don't think I ever was afforded that opportunity. Same here. Same here. [00:49:00] Never once was. I asked to do that, whereas she seemed so open to it and it's a, it's a, it's very indicative of what we call servant leadership. Or so if you're. Into this whole topic, just Google, servant leadership to some great books around it.
Um, you know, if you want to lead from the front, you know, let everyone else shine and you can do the hard work at the back. There's so many layers to this one, but what's so important issues. She actually described the kind of snowball effect of by listening to them. She improves the course. She, she creates a better curriculum.
But by her respecting them, they respect themselves. And for a moment, Mark, I want you to think about a team and for all of our listeners, just think about the team that you're in. If you display really [00:50:00] meaningful, respect towards your peers and your cohort. What you're effectively doing is helping them respect themselves to be more confident and to do a better job at working on the things that they care about and the mission that you have as a team.
Mark, I think this is esta. To the core. I think this is huge and this, you know, she, she had meds at the beginning. She found it quite hard to hear their feedback. Maybe she even pushed against it a little bit. We've all done that. There's subjectivity as well as. You know, maybe our own personal confidence drives us in one direction, but actually when you start listening to those others, you can better your product.
You can better your work. You can validate solutions. Here we go. This feels like common ground that we like talking about. Doesn't it mind if you [00:51:00] are customers or your users or your colleagues, teammates, your, um, Uh, you know, children, perhaps your students, you can only learn. You can listen, you can do the whatever.
And the yes. And you can do all of these things that we've just discussed and improve your product. And this is huge for me. It all comes from respecting one, another massive. Wow. Okay. Where are they at? So if you are nodding, as you listened to the show in violent agreement, um, then I think the, the, the model of servant leadership right here would be to ask ourselves, how might we.
Respect those around us. And I think there are some simple practices of [00:52:00] listening to them, understanding what is really going on for them and driving them, uh, them being your peers and your colleagues, your teammates, your clients, and, uh, I think when you have listened and understood, then I think you're able to respond, um, in the form of help assistance, support, maybe some inspiration, or maybe just plain old, getting out of the way.
Hurry knows who knows, but I love this idea that if you respect others, it becomes a trigger for them. To respect themselves. And we know if people respect themselves, they'll have confidence. They'll do great work. That will be the best people ever to work with. So it's in our interests to respect to others because it helps them.
Be better. Ooh. [00:53:00] Wow. That's it. It's, there's a lot of teachings here on there and a lot of practical stuff and I'm just reminded me again of, you know, Esther's proposal of scaffolding. Yes. I think part of the respect is knowing that you've got to step back a lot. I love what you just said. Actually, the step back, let them, let them drive the servant leadership approach.
I think that's really interesting and very much where I think Esther's Esther's coming from totally, totally. But we have. Just one, we could have had many, but we, for this show, we've picked the best of the best of Esther, which it's ski. We have one more thought. Don't we Mark. We have one more to, um, to end the current show with, uh, this is Esther.
We've obviously learned a lot about different practical ways of approaching, how we collaborate with our teammates and those around us, how we need to respect and trust one another. And this final. [00:54:00] A clip from Esther is, is really rounding us back into having an awareness when things maybe don't quite go the right way.
So this final clip is Esther talking about how we need to think about, but also embrace failure. I think the number one way to change that, first of all, discuss it, have a team discussion about how this is part of the culture today and how. It is okay to take a risk and to fail. And I think right now people are terrified of failing.
Um, as long as they're terrified of making a mistake and failing, never do so there has to be, it has to be, um, uh, you know, one of those offsite days. But it can't just be one day. It has to be embedded in the culture where you're meeting once a [00:55:00] week and talking about some of the things that you tried, that, that didn't work out and it's okay.
And that you're being celebrated for trying and for doing things that might not have worked out. I mean, Einstein says we cannot, we can't fix mistakes with the same thinking that we use to create those mistakes. Right. And that's what we're doing. We're just terrified of making mistakes. Well, it's not the older generation as the newer, younger generation.
They need to be. It's okay to believe in yourself.
Closing the show on a one, two punch respect and embracing of failure, you know, it's so funny, isn't it? How we're so engineered to be scared to fail, maybe it's fight or flight in a that just [00:56:00] triggers when something doesn't work out. But the crazy thing is that. Um, failure is shown to be the sharpest form of learning because failure seems much more black and white than success success.
You sort of get there and go, well, I, I, I think it was because of this and this, but I'm not a hundred percent sure, but what's interesting about failure. It's it's always so damn clear damage, but you know what I mean, medical, like, like when something doesn't go, right. It's like we did a, then we go big as a result.
Whoops. Note to self won't be doing that again. Um, how do you try? And, uh, you know, when we're in that moment, When we go, Ooh, Ooh, that didn't work. How do you try and embody the learnings Mark? Like what do you do to get something out of it? Yeah. So I think it's human nature to remember the negatives and [00:57:00] remember the failures, isn't it, rather than, um, you know, really.
Look back and say, wow, this is what we did. So I think for me, it's quite easy to get caught into that tailspin of thinking. Ah, okay. I tried really hard, but it didn't work. And, and I think what I'm going to, I guess I'm always trying to learn and get better at it. And it's something that, you know, even you and I have often practice, which is what Esther's corny out here, celebrating the act of trying.
Which I think is really, really nice. So if I am in a moment of failure or maybe something hasn't quite worked and I can see maybe it's the response or something I've done, or a colleague, or maybe it's just bad luck, I think I'm going to try and. Really take a moment to sort of breathe and think, Oh yeah, but we gave it a good go didn't we?
And I think as we discussed last week, when we were thinking about Gary and his message of [00:58:00] putting in as much work as you can, because that's the effort that you put in, you're going to get out. Uh, it's the same here. I think. So if you can look back at a moment or a product or a project and know that you worked your hardest.
That you cultivated this element of respect and collaboration with your teammates, but still it didn't work. That's okay. Because they'll always be around too. There'll be something else where you, can you building on those skills that you've now cultivated. So let's talk about, um, the round two that you just mentioned.
Let's talk about when you get another show, how. Do you have any techniques to embody these learnings? Do you, how do you make sure that second time round you do it better? Because that makes round one, it was totally worth it when round two went better. Right? That's the dream, isn't it. So you learn from the mistakes.
And so, I mean, from a practical perspective, Taking [00:59:00] notes. I've got my, we've mentioned it before to do this great note taking slash a to do app that we have to do list app that we, we use. I put down learnings and I don't necessarily take them off. I don't use it like that. Instead, it will trigger certain memories if I'm beginning a new project or maybe I'm going through something that is similar in vein to something I've experienced before I might look back at some of the learnings that I scribbled down previously to remind myself to how I reacted.
And either I could use that as a way of pivoting away or alternatively, I'll go back and think, okay, well I did this last time and that was great. So I'll do it again. What about, what, what, what are you, what are your, what are your tips and tricks are? Listen, I think without a doubt, um, Doing, if you, if any of our listeners are using agile as a [01:00:00] way of working and sprints and scrums and so forth, I think the sprint retrospective to reflect, uh, at the end of the game to do a post game analysis.
As a group, I think this is the key thing, and it's not about the, uh, finger pointing. It's all about what did we learn and how we do it next time. Um, and if you have those moments where they are shared, where they are safe, then people can be vulnerable. And say, Oh, I don't know how to do that. Or I missed that this time.
Um, but then you can also say, well, let me help you, which brings us full circle to Esther in this idea of trust and collaboration. And most importantly, respecting. The other person, because if you show them respect, that's this huge thing of it. They [01:01:00] can respect themselves. So it all comes full circle in Esther, which had skis, trick model, Mark.
Um, what. What a fascinating journey we have had into someone who is both a teacher, a parent, and an author, and then applying this trick model into teens, into work and to building products, services, perhaps even building company, pretty fascinating and very rich. Um, when you think about what we've been able to take out of it, right?
Very rich, very human. A lot of these tips are. Yes, they're practical, but actually they're born out of being aware of, of one another, which I really, really liked. And you know, that's coming from a family model, but also those around us, there's this little nucleus of people around us day to day. Um, I think that's, that's great that passion and humanity came through a [01:02:00] lot in, in Esther's work.
I think. Yeah, so, so very much. And the coolest thing about, uh, esta was that we were able to see such a distinct pattern in the way in which her thinking aligns with our moonshot thinking, which is based on everyone from ELL Musk to Oprah Winfrey and everything in between. Um, Really really exciting. And I'll tell you what else is pretty damn exciting.
Mark is we have got a roadmap of shows coming that is sensational. What is coming up over the next few months? Oh, we have such plethora of, uh, of interesting topics. Themes and individuals and innovators that we're going to be delving into. Uh, I'm particularly excited about the next, uh, individual that we're covering next [01:03:00] week, as well as an upcoming series.
Um, do you, I shall I, shall I reveal Mike? Yeah, of course. So next week we're going to be delving into the teachings as well as the, the techniques of up. Iceman Wim Hoff who are well be familiar with all those. Like you, Mike you're waking up with a cold shower will be familiar with hot, hot techniques, but that inspired us.
He's got some really, really interesting methodologies and techniques as well as habits. So we figured out that we might as well delve into habits and really do a proper series on some of the interesting, uh, teachings, lessons and books from classic authentic authors, including James, Claire, and atomic habits.
If we got Charles Doogie and the power of habit and William H McRaven, make your bed. Whew. [01:04:00] That is, that is a lot of goodies. Uh, Mikey Merrick, that is, I think we've got a roadmap that technically got us to shows 97. So we desperately need more suggestions from you. Our long lasting one hour into the show listeners.
Tell us who you'd like us to cover a beef bill yarn was hitting us up with some suggestion. I know there's more out there, so please let us know who you want to learn from what innovators can give you inspiration and a path to building and creating things as Esther would say that you care about. So that brings us to the end of, uh, the Ester, which is ski show, where we have delved into a world of really building trust so that we can connect so we can collaborate and to really show and lead through respecting others so that they.
[01:05:00] Can respect themselves. And if we do that, we can take all the valleys and all of the peaks that come with that classic ups and downs of working on things that matter. So, Mark, thank you to you. Are you, are you all tripped up and ready to go? I am. I'm feeling inspired. I want to go and collaborate. I can't wait to go and start working with you might come the next exciting project.
Sounds wonderful. And thank you to you. All of our listeners from all four corners of the world, it is truly, truly gratifying and quite humbling to see folks joining us over the last week from South Africa, from Austria, from the Czech Republic. And we welcome Estonia as well. So it is so wonderful that we can all come together and to really source.
It's not any inspirational, but some practical mental models and [01:06:00] behaves on our journey.
And hopefully this gives you all the rocket fuel in the world to go for your shop, whatever that might be, whether it's designing, building, or creating. I hope you leave this show more inspired and ready to go at some it's show 83. It's been a total joy to share with you the world of Vesta, which is key.
That's another moonshots podcast. That's a wrap.