SIMON SINEK

4 OF 5

FIND YOUR WHY

EPISODE 56

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

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mike parsons 0:10

Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's Episode 56 and your co host Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined by Chad Owen. Good evening, Brooklyn.

Chad Owen 0:22

Good morning, Sydney. How are you on this fine Monday, Mike.

mike parsons 0:27

I can only tell you it's a bit chilly here in Tuesday in the southern hemisphere. But it might be chilly outside, but I get pretty warm and fuzzy when we're talking about our favourite author Hmm.

Chad Owen 0:43

And so we've done not one, not two. But here's our third episode in the Simon Sinek book series here on the moon shots. No, it's the fourth episode in the fourth book in this area. See, I've already lost track.

mike parsons 1:02

You're lost in a world of why you're doing the virtuous circles. You can't even remember how many episodes you don't know what you are right? In this particular series, Chad, we have done three, but overall, there was a fourth, the big mothership of of shows that has almost hit 40,000 listeners. It's it's the smash hit in the moonshot podcast series. But we are decoding in this series, all of these books and we've been on a wild journey with start with why we've done you know, leaders eat last we've done together is better. But today, Chad, we come to the fourth and perhaps the most practical of all of these books.

Chad Owen 1:48

Yes. So we are going to find our why or find your WHY IS is the title of the book and it's a book that Simon co authored with David Mead and Peter Drucker, and I think the three of them do a fantastic job of giving us the practical knowledge and practices and tools, things for us to find our wise. And

mike parsons 2:14

what's really interesting to reflect on with this book, find your why is that it was a direct result of everybody loving the first book that we had on this series, which is start with why but in the same breath, everybody's like, we love this Simon, but we don't even know where to start, like, how do we do this? Why theme? Mm hmm. And this was the reason he wrote this book. And it's such a sort of pivot from the last book that we discussed, which is together is better because that was like a business book and a leadership book, and a collaboration book and it's like a parable format. Yeah, it's like in a kid's book, but it absolutely work so we've gone from these heady motivating books to pitch your books now we're in like, textbook clans. So for everybody listening to this show, this show this episode is get all about getting super, super serious about doing this why thing? And I think is the perfect companion to the first book he wrote, because this one like this is like something you might expect as almost a textbook at college or high school, but it works for that very reason. Don't you think? Chad?

Chad Owen 3:39

Yeah, start with why is the book that you'll buy a copy for everyone inside of your company and give it to all of your friends. Find your Why's the book that you buy to go and actually do it. You know, you can choose a friend or a partner to help you in that endeavour. Or you can you know, try and roll it out. Cross organisation. But we've got some really great clips both from Simon and and the co authors talking about not only Why is finding your why important, but also getting into some of the practical aspects of how you go about finding your why. And I'm sure you and I will be reflecting at some point of view about the book and how it's broken down. And just what we found was, as you said, You know, I think it's a great, not quite as dry as a textbook, but like it gives you all the tools I feel like that you need to get to get you started with the process of finding your why.

mike parsons 4:33

Yeah, and I think what you can look forward to in this show is us really getting into setting the context of why it matters, how you might find it, and really how you can live by this every single day. And I think there's one thing that I think we need to point out to our listeners, Chad, before we jump into decoding financial, why do you think we will We could give like a lot a little primer on the first book, like, how can we just do an elevator pitch exact some of the first book start with why? Because I think we probably need to frame that idea if someone hasn't listened to the show and is not familiar with the books. How can we explain the first book so that this, if you will, this activation of the first book really can make sense? How Chad let's do it with you, like start with why just what is it? What's the idea? Why do you love it and then we can just jump straight into find your way

Chad Owen 5:33

while you're making me want to go back into the archive and have Simon himself say with a clip from him, but if I were to sum it up, people today, especially companies lead with what they do. And then sometimes they talk about the hi and then if you really, you know, pepper them with questions you might get at their why. And Simon gives some really good examples of companies that talk all about, you know the features of the products that they're selling. But he gives a really great example of apple and I'm doing a poor job paraphrasing. But what Apple does is they start on the inside with the why. And then they talk about the how and then eventually they get to the what?

mike parsons 6:22

Yes. And he uses them almost as evidence that people don't buy what you do. They buy, buy, why you do it. And what was really cool in the series of books that he wrote afterwards is he applies it not only to brands, but he also applies it to the individual. So he argues the great leadership comes from people who know why they exist on the planet and what they're here to do. And isn't that the power? Isn't that why we're like Sinek fans, Chad, like, it's so applicable, you can apply it to the banner. Yeah. The brand new building at work. You can apply it

Chad Owen 7:01

to yourself or both in the teams you're leading Yeah. Yeah. And that, you know, people follow you because they believe what you believe. And for you know, for Simon that again starts with starting with your why and then figuring out the how and of course the watts are kind of results right from that. But if you if you want the deep dive, go back and listen to Episode 53, where we do a deep dive into start with why and this book, find your why's really all about the tactics and the things and the conversations questions you ask yourself in order to get at your why. And so to kick off this show about finding your why we're going to hear from Simon why it's important to find your fulfilment and how that leads to your why.

Simon Sinek 7:49

If people learn their why it makes them better qualified and more importantly, more confident to choose the careers choose the jobs and find the companies that create environments in which they are more likely to be inspired and feel fulfilled. And that's the goal. The discovery of y was not an academic exercise or commercial exercise. It was something deeply, deeply personal. I had a small business. And after a few years had lost my passion for what I was doing, people gave me silly advice, like, do what you love. I was doing the same thing. I didn't love it anymore. Thanks to the confluence of some events, I discovered this naturally occurring pattern. I knew what I did. And I knew how I did it. But I couldn't tell you why. And I realised I had to answer that question if I was going to find that balance. And so I became obsessed with answering this question, why do I do what I do? Not only did it restore my passion, it restored it to levels I never experienced before. And as we do when we discover something beautiful, we share it with the people we love. And so I shared it with my friends. And my friends started making crazy life changes. And they invited me to share it with their friends. And I would show up at someone's apartment and literally give a little talk about this discovery I'd made and I would just get more and more invitations and this thing just sort of spread organically and it's really changed. the course of my life and changed the course of my career when now I'm completely devoted to spreading this idea and helping people either find their passion, or amplify it, if they already have it. Having a job we love is a right and not a privilege. It's not for the Chosen Few. And so my hope is to share this idea with as many people as possible so that indeed, saying I love my job becomes the standard and not the exception. I used to do the Y discoveries myself. That's how it began, I would actually help my friends learn their why I used to sit down with them and go through this process. It took hours, who had asked them all about their life and try and see the patterns to try and discern their why. And it was great and highly effective, but I was the only one doing it. So I shared it with others. And there was a few of us doing it. But still, you know, there was this desire to do it with more people. And so we took this process that I used to do manually and took everything that I learned and put it in this online course. But it's basically the exact same thing I used to do. By myself, so it's really fun to see it come to life. And of course, the best thing about the Y is that it's a biological constant that has nothing to do with what we do. It's based on the biology of how we make decisions and what drives us and motivates us. Which means that it doesn't matter whether you're retired or whether you're a student, it doesn't matter what industry you're in this course is designed to help people understand what makes them tick and what drives them, what inspires them and that's why I'm really proud of this. I mean, this will give people something to grasp onto and find inspiration and fulfilment and in everything they do, hopefully for the rest of their lives. All you need to do is have the will and the desire to want to understand what drives and inspires you.

mike parsons 10:39

Whoo ha he's, he's really getting into it here. And what I'm loving about this chat is cynic is is now getting into the real nitty gritty of, of actually making this something that you can realise in your life and I wanted to hit you Chad with what I'm really Taking out of this clip from Sinek. He touched on something that I think is really powerful that happiness comes from what we do. I'm happy because I had a nice meal. I'm happy, because I had a nice meeting. But the fulfilment comes from why we do it, fulfilment. This is a much more long lasting feeling is when you're on course in life when you're on track, with your family, with your friends with your work, when you're being the person you dream of being, and having the impact that you dream of having that fulfilment. And I love the fact that he says that fulfilment is a right that we all have, because I think a lot of people I've run into in life, not only lacking fulfilment, but almost dare not to dream. And what I love is he's opening this right up saying, fulfilment as a right, but it comes not from what we do. But why we do it? And that's like achieving your big mission. And for me that he's come out of the plug so strong there because personally for me, this means so much. I'm just learning how to do this. I'm no Jedi Master. But man, is he touching on something here?

Chad Owen 12:18

Yeah, but I don't have my Why am I click? What do I do? Where do I go? Well, here, you know, essentially he's saying like, Look, when this case we pulled this clip from from a webinar course that he did, but it's essentially the same as the book so you can kind of swap in book for when he says course. I think what he's outlined, especially in the kind of one on one, you know, finding your why with a partner, part of the book. I mean, you know, he says, as long as you have the drive, to want to find it, like here's the tools,

mike parsons 12:49

just go and do it. So I would like to do a little build on this because there's been times in my early career where I was not really connected. to it, like I knew what made me happy and maybe what I enjoyed or what I was capable of doing. But it is, what was so transformative for me and that I continue to do is ask not only what do I want to do in life, and how do I want to go about it? But why do I exist set differently? What do I want my legacy to be? And maybe you just need to be old and grey like me in order to ask a question, I don't know. But honestly, the early you asked that question of yourself, the better and this book has helped me so much in diving into that sort of question.

Chad Owen 13:40

Yeah. And I think again, what this book drives home is just how impactful it can be once you find your why and so we've got to actually really great clips from Simon talking about what you can expect when you're so when you've crystallised in and you really begin to understand And what's your why is what is the impact of finding your why.

Simon Sinek 14:03

So I can tell you what I went through, which is what set me on the journey to sharing the message of the why and helping people find there's a Why is like a it's like a, it's like a compass direction, it tells you where you're going. We can live our lives by accident, which is kind of like getting in a ship and just sailing or getting in a car and just driving, you will absolutely see some amazing things. You'll stumble upon some amazing experiences. But you don't really have a sense of where you're going any sort of direction. In other words, what's it all for? What the Why does is it provides a path that provides a map or a compass. So you will still have some of those amazing experiences. But now they have value and worth and they're taking you towards something else. It's a journey toward something. When I learned my why I had this tremendous calm come over me a sense of my confidence grew a sense that my life had more meaning than I thought it had before and I Now the choice, a new way of viewing decisions a filter through which to make decisions, which now I would ask myself, does this help advance my wire or not? Does this help me stay on the path that I'm supposed to be on? Or is this going to be a random, a random adventure? So the Y provides focused direction meaning and, and confidence?

Chad Owen 15:20

Hmm.

mike parsons 15:23

I think what he's referring to here is when you sort of start to decode why you're on the planet, there's a certain piece that comes with that because you're Yeah, that's that's kind of it. That's why I get out of bed every morning. And it's not too different to the feeling that you have when you do something like 16 personalities calm, which is a good personality, study and test, or strengthsfinder 2.0. There's a certain aha moment that happens when, whether it's the Find your why book or those courses. tests that I that I mentioned, they all give you a certain Oh, yeah, that that's me. That's why I exist. That's how I want to act in this world how I want to be remembered. That's the legacy that I that I want to have. And I think the reason you feel so calm when you get into this sort of stuff, and it starts to work for you, is that I think it's often subconsciously swirling around you at work or at home, about like, okay, who am I trying to be? What am I trying to do in this world? And you go, like, Oh, my gosh, I found a compass. I found a sort of a roadmap for me to navigate, and now find motivation, make better decisions. And also, it's that feeling of when you have a moment, you're like, oh, wow, what a day. What a week. Not only was I happy, but I feel a deep sense of fulfilment, because I'm doing stuff with the people that I like. That really, really matters. I think this is where it gets to don't you chat?

Chad Owen 17:01

Yeah, I loved the metaphor of the compass. I think the why once you find it, it can be a very powerful tool for yourself. And in a way it makes all of those decisions much easier. So, for me, the column comes in the confidence comes from being able to filter those decisions through your why, which is why it's so important and can can have such a huge impact. We've got another clip from Simon that if you weren't convinced that you need to pick up this book and go through this exercise. Another reason why he should.

Simon Sinek 17:39

So a good example of what a why sounds like I'll tell you a story. I did some work with the Disney Imagineers These are the people who build all the rides, design, all the parades, all the shows, the boats, everything like that the ships, everything that's not a movie or merchandising, basically the Imagineers invented, build it, design it. And I was giving a talk about the why and the golden circle to the Imagineers. And somebody asked the same question, which is, can you give us an example of what a wire looks like or sounds like so I picked a random person in the audience. And I asked him to give me a specific story that helps me understand that really captures what he loves, about being an Imagineer. And he told the story, you have to appreciate that he told over the course of seven minutes maybe basically, of how he was the lead engineer on a ride. And he went to, I should preempt with, I didn't I should I should tell you this that he didn't know this. And I found out later that his nickname at the office was ice chips, because he was cold and everything but he's like he's an engineer. So everything was exact and just sort of not the most emotional guy so they called him ice chips. This was his nickname behind his back anyway. So I called on ice chips by accident. And he told the story of how they would design the there's a new ride that was opening that he was the lead engineer. And he saw a guy in a wheelchair and his daughter, I'm heading towards the ride to try it out for the first time. And one of the things that

occurred to him was that anywhere else in the world,

people see a guy in a wheelchair with his daughter. Only at Disneyland. The only thing people see is a father and his daughter going to Disneyland. And he says that's what it means to him to work for this organisation, that it's about parents and children and family and brothers and sisters and boyfriends and girlfriends and husbands and wives and every combination of family that we can come up with and that's all there is just those relationships and that's why everything was so exact to him. And in an instant, we're all crying and it was a beautiful story but in an instant everybody understand stood, why he was always so hard about everything because to him, those were the stakes that they had to make things that made people feel that they were just a father and the daughter that nothing else mattered. Yeah, it was, it was pretty amazing. It

was pretty amazing. And it gave everybody context.

mike parsons 20:18

hoo ha.

That's one of the best ones I've ever heard. But I guess, as a side note here, Ted, what's interesting about that stories, if you take the time to understand why people are, who they are, perhaps you might be, we might be less judgmental and more understanding. When you get the reason that that guy is so full on and uptight about meeting standards and everything has to be exact, because he's like, this is how he contributes to celebrating the very idea of being a family. And once you put in that kind of condition, like Okay, fair enough. That's pretty important. stuff. Yeah, it's not it's not because he's a jerk, and he wants everything to be done his way.

Chad Owen 21:05

Yeah, for him, it's in service of, of the customers and users that that they're that they're serving. Yeah. And it's a bit of a preview here too, from Simon about the process of finding your your why. And we can take a moment here just to talk a bit about the structure of the book and kind of our, our thoughts about the book overall. Again, I thought the practicality of it was, was really helpful. And you can almost open it to the chapter and just start doing the exercises with a partner pretty immediately and get to some really interesting results. But it's really all about gathering these stories. So here in that instance, you know, Simon's kind of pulling the group of a story of you know, doing that, that meaningful work. Then you start to pull or identify some themes across these These questions like Okay, so what? Where do you come alive at work? Where do you kind of shy away? Or, you know, where do you feel like you don't, you don't shine you take those themes and then you can draft and refine your why's statement that kind of pulls examples and themes from all those stories. And then once you have that wild statement you can kind of against you know, start from the middle of the Golden Circle and move your way outwards. So you've got your why then you find your how and then the what's kind of Fallout at the end

mike parsons 22:29

Yeah, it's it's it's a it's a it's a great framework. I mean, he's he's masterful cynic and obviously he had the help of David Mead and Peter Docker here, but he's just masterful at simplifying really big, ethereal emotional things. He really packages them them them beautifully. like yourself, I also really liked the the personal why the most. He also does the whole wide process for organisations and And I like a lot of the practicalities

Unknown Speaker 23:06

that

mike parsons 23:07

I think we all need reminding of. And in fact, I think that's a way of sort of setting up this next part of the show, we've been very fortunate to dig up. It's actually really nice to hear from David meet and pay to Docker, because they co authored this book with him. And we were really fortunate to find a webinar that they had done, which was based on q&a from readers of the book. And they were coming with lots of really good questions or blockers that they had. And we've been able to pick out the best ones that we think are going to help you our listeners will help you the most. So it's really nice to have the chance to hear not only from Simon Sinek, but actually he's co authors. And so I think if you if you're a big cynic fan and whether you're a master of both or all or just one book, I've really found That these suggestions that we're going to take you through these ideas are going to help you get more out of this this process. And I think it's safe to say Chad, asking why is not something you do once? You know, as they say, write the book and close the book. I mean, I think this is something you come back to time and time again.

Chad Owen 24:20

Yeah, I think it's, it is an it's an investment that is certainly worth making. Because, you know, as you said, like, it's that compass that will just keep guiding you. No matter the circumstance, whether that's in work or at home. I have found it to be immensely immensely useful. Yeah, yeah. But you might be wondering, where to get started. We're profiling, no fewer than five of Simon's books. You may be a bit confused as to where to get started. And so David and Peter have some advice as far as how to get started in finding your why

Unknown Speaker 25:00

It's up to you. We're not going to say to people sit down and read start with why from cover to cover first if you're eager to get on with find your wife then that's fine. We wrote in the front of find your wire sort of synopsis, shorter version of start with why. And this isn't about selling books either if you want to read start with wine, borrow one, you know it's you don't have to go and buy one I'm sure there's plenty in the libraries around the world too. Having said that, if you want a deeper appreciation of the power of the Golden Circle, and how it can help and influence us both in our individual lives and in business to then start with wine the book does certainly go a little bit deeper. It's entirely up to you. Reading start with y is not a prerequisite for launching into find your why. But you will get a deeper appreciation of the ideas if you repost. David anything go Would you agree?

Chad Owen 26:00

Absolutely I would compare it to you know, when you when you buy a new gadget or a new piece of technology, usually there's like the manual, which is, you know, sometimes online for those people who just love to get into all the detail. And then there's the QuickStart Guide, which a lot of people were like, sweet, let me just Just tell me how, you know, give me the basics that I need to be able to figure out how to use this thing. So the information that we get around the Golden Circle and start with why the quickstart guide is in, find your why. So you'll have you know, if it was written to be a standalone book, so you will have the basic foundation that you need as far as the knowledge about the Golden Circle and the concept of y. If you just pick up find your y but for those of you who love that level of detail, start with y is a good, good place to go.

mike parsons 26:45

Yes, so this this book is very much the Quick Start Guide if you're in a big, if you're in a big hurry to crack the Y maybe you've heard a lot of people talking about it over the years. This is the place to go and actually as I think Got it, Chad, it would have been so good. If some of the other great business books had had their own practical equivalence of final I'm thinking about Good to Great. And a lot of the Jim Collins books, I think definitely clay Christian because he's work is very strategic and academic. In fact, maybe a lot of authors could take a lead here from Simon Sinek. What do you think?

Chad Owen 27:23

Yeah, well, I think Jim Collins did just that, because he just came out with an imprint. It's not quite a full book. It's called turning the flywheel. And it takes his idea of the flywheel which I know you are a huge proponent of and Whoa, yeah, seemingly find it in all of the successful business models out there. But he took this idea of the flywheel that comes from good to great, and he split it out into its own book. I think you're exactly right. Many of these books can and probably should be distilled into 5000 words maybe 10,000. words, you know, with some pretty diagrams that help explain the thinking. But Simon is so interesting to read because he brings in many great stories and examples in the same way that like people like Jim Collins and Clay Christensen. Like, bring in that academic research and the examples of, you know, why their theories work. But I would absolutely recommend, find your why. Like, if you just want like the crash course and then get right into doing it, I think find your WHY IS A GREAT entree into into the whole series, because then you're getting to finding your why. And not just hearing Simon talk to you about why y's are so great. Like you can actually approach start with why already having a bit of a semblance of what your own is. So it might be even a more interesting interaction with the book if you've started to find years ahead of time.

mike parsons 28:49

Yeah, and I think if everyone is getting a little bit excited in, in this episode and thinking right practical time, let's write some notes. Let's scribble some stuff down or If you missed something that we've said, I know, we're getting more and more people asking us for references. I know, we had somebody the senior show last week who wanted to know about the work productivity tool that Chad and basically, I think I've corrupted everybody that I work closely with, to use, which is called to do list. It's a fantastic multi platform native piece of software. That is, I mean, it's everything that you could want in a very practical, practical kind of get things done. tool that's also collaborative. So Chad can give me lots of homework to do. But I wanted to give you all a heads up, go to moonshots.io where you can find all our shownotes all our links. It's a repository, hopefully, of all of our wisdom. And, as you know, everybody Chad loves a good email. So you can email both of us at hello@moonshots.com And while you're at it, if you're got the fingers clicking, don't forget to go into the iTunes Store. We love those reviews. We love those reviews. We love those ratings. I think we've got to hit 25 star ratings Chad, that's the challenge we should put out to everyone.

Chad Owen 30:16

I know there's a few of you out there that I've been texting or emailing lately. You've been saying, hey, great, great work on that episode. So show us some of that love on iTunes. It helps other people.

mike parsons 30:28

Yeah. It's really, really helpful for us. And we appreciate any feedback that you're willing to give. Give us and if it's particularly negative, you can send those to Chad at moonshots.

I'm joking,

Chad Owen 30:43

send it out. Well, we'll take all your feedback. Good and bad, Mike and I you should know by now we're, we're practitioners of continuous improvement and iterating. So yeah, we good and bad feedback. We'll take it one at all.

mike parsons 30:58

Now on this theme of Doing things together. The co authors have some very strong thoughts about how you might go about finding your wife. So I just want to set the scene here, you've read the book, and you're like, I want to do this. The first thing is, you have to avoid is coming up in this next clip. So let's say you're ready. And you're about to start the process of finding your way. Listen to what David and Peter have to say now, because this is the first and most important piece of advice. Let's hear it.

Chad Owen 31:32

That's the second question. Should we try to do this by yourself ourselves? No, please do not try to do it by yourself. The way we we sort of, you know, we compare it to therapy, right? We cannot conduct those therapy sessions on our own, not that this is a therapy session. It's something different than that. However, that outside perspective, that sort of third party viewpoint is so incredibly important because what we're looking for and why discovery is pattern right? ignition. And in these different stories that we're telling to be able to pinpoint what are the things that are the same? What is that golden thread that runs through everything, and it's very, very, very difficult, if not impossible to do that for ourselves. And so if you're having a little bit of trouble with that, and I've experienced this as well, I've got, you know, a couple of family members that have gone through this process and said, I just don't know who to ask. My suggestion would be in Peter, I'm interested to hear your take on this. But I think if we can get past the perception that there, I don't know who to ask, there's nobody I can ask in and not worrying so much about, well, you know, I'm afraid to ask this person because what if they think this is weird, or, you know, what, what if, you know, do do I have to know them, you know, extremely well. It's all the stuff that I think we kind of let get in the way. If we really kind of take that bigger perspective, that bigger picture, go up to 30,000 feet and say, Look, this is something really important to me. I want to be able to get up every day and know the purpose behind the work that I do or what keeps me busy throughout the day. And sharing that just sharing that experience that you're going through might just be inspiring to somebody that you know, to the point where they would be more than happy or more than excited to help you tell you do that. And so I think maybe just letting go of the perception that well, they probably wouldn't do it, or they would think it was strange or those that kind of thing. I think we probably all have a few people in our lives that that could serve that purpose, but

do not do it alone. And actually, I'm going to go out on a limb here. So if you if you're listening to us, you've made it this far you've heard not one two, you've listened to like almost five episodes on Simon Sinek care. You know, Mike and I are huge Simon Sinek fans, the first three listeners that send an email to hello@moonshots.io and say, hey, I want some help finding my wife. I'll be that person to help you ask some of those hard questions and go through those answers to help find your why. And the reason I'm doing that is because I think I can get better at understanding my own why. So, yeah, I'm just gonna put out that call to action. And first first people that email me at hello@moonshots.io. I would love to help you through that process.

mike parsons 34:24

Wow, what an offer. And what is really important about this idea is there's lots of learnings for me, number one, do it was somebody else because that will create some accountability, do it with somebody else? Because they will say, Hey, Mike, you're living in your own reality distortion field. I don't know what you're thinking with that. But here's my feedback. And lastly, sometimes, maybe more times than not that when you do this work, Someone that you're not really, really close to someone a little bit more objective might say, hey Mike, get over it. Now go out and do something positive in the world. People who are so don't have a horse in the race may in fact give you better feedback. So don't feel like if you look at like your best buddy at work, and your part and you're like, you know what, for whatever reason, I don't want them to, to do it. I actually encourage people to go out there and find someone to mentor and coach them. And here's a good power tip. You can go on to the Simon Sinek Facebook group, and there is an enormous community of people who are out there finding their wives. And it's quite common that people actually hang out their shingle. So if if Chad's already booked up with three, you can always go to the Facebook group and for Simon Sinek and you can Find some people to do it with it. I really, really found that not only for myself, but in watching this over the many years. Doing this with others will only make your idea your vision, your motivation

Chad Owen 36:14

better. Didn't we spend a whole episode talking about why together is better

mike parsons 36:20

Mike? We did indeed. It's like everything is fitting together like these beautiful, beautiful little tapestry. But look, the advice doesn't stop there, does it Chad?

Chad Owen 36:33

No, no. And there's, there's an A subtlety that you'll begin to understand many of the things that maybe you thought were a y are either a house or sometimes a what. And so, again, part of why it's so important to be working through this with someone else is you might stop a bit too early. You know, you don't quite get fully to the why and Here we are hearing from, from Peter and David, about some of the differences between hows and whys. Yeah, and

Unknown Speaker 37:10

just adults that the process of the wines discovered, actually what you're doing is finding your themes, which are your house, and the one that rises to the top is your why. So Stephanie is your your points, you know, you may find as you're you're coming up with all these stories that do seem to be a number of themes. Well, that's part of the process. And as you go through it, you'll find that of those themes will be fine, maybe six, and it's the sixth one that rises to the top to become your why there's no difference between your why and your house. Other than the Why is the first amongst equals, if you like so, there are gonna be a number of different themes that you discover as you go through your your wine discovery process. That's part of the process. It's only when you get to the ends and follow it all the way through that you figure out which one Is the wall that that is the root of your y. So keep going, I'd encourage you.

mike parsons 38:07

Yeah. For me, the house and the y's are I mean, it's To me, it's almost the crucial formula, isn't it? How you kind of unpack this? When you look at difference between a house and a wife for yourself, Chad, what's a good example for our listeners just to, to reflect on the difference?

Chad Owen 38:29

Sure. And I'm still working through my exact why statement or my purpose. But you know, how I spend my professional career is a how, for my why so my professional career is, you know, it's kind of in service to my why I don't live to work. And my purpose here on this life is not to do work, but I'm very fortunate and lucky to find work that serves my why. And so that's, you know, so for me, my work and many of the other things that I do is in service of my why. So it's kind of like whatever's at the top of that pyramid, or, you know, at the very, very core of the Golden Circle, that's the why it's like that Why is inside of everything that you do that, you know, makes you feel alive and really activates you. That's, that's how I see can because I can like look at many of the things that I'm doing, why you and I are podcasting together the work that I'm doing, or the types of content that I'm sharing and the books that I'm reading, it's like all pointing me You know, it all comes back to my why.

mike parsons 39:46

That's, that's a that's a really, really good differentiation even more put simplest still if I look at my own one, mentoring, helping supporting and coaching others is a big part of my why But what's interesting, if you look at that theme, I actually quite liked to call it coaching because it has a level of accountability and shared risk reward to it. I coach quite literally I coach rugby players, but I also coach and mentor people in my organisation. I also coach and mentor, my son. I also see what we're doing here is very much this mentorship and teaching it all of those things, being a dad, being a rugby coach at work in my family, it's all the same thing. It's just simply helping people. It's simply with this very strong accent towards coaching mentorship and teaching. And I find huge satisfaction and all of those things. So they are kind of all the same why in the end, and that's just an example for our listens, whatever your why is if you can do that simple exercise of saying, Well, how do I behave in my family, in my community in my office? If you can see a consistency there, then you're really serving your wife. You're feeling like things are not? Yeah, I'm kind of got it going in one or two areas. And that's a great piece of homework, go make it work and more.

Chad Owen 41:23

Yeah, I think the more multifaceted your why manifests like probably the closer you are to your true why, as you said, if it's like if you come up with a why, but you can only see it showing up in your home life, maybe not so much at work or vice versa, then you might have to dig a bit deeper. For your, for your why.

mike parsons 41:42

Yeah, yeah. And what's what's really interesting for me is this, this idea that I truly do, love coaching, mentoring, helping, teaching supporting others, so that they can go out into the world and do very brave and audacious things. That's very much my why. What's really interesting is that there was a couple of things in my childhood, which were really negative moments that really affected me in my as in my struggles to be away as a wayward teenager in particular. But there were these things that happen, that I can see now have become huge positives, because I'm trying to do it better than perhaps those that should have mentored and coached me. When I was a kid. I'm trying to pay it forward and do a better and hopefully that'll be my legacy. And in fact, this is a big thing for a lot of people in their wives. So what we've got coming up now is the co authors of find your wife, talking about how, yes, there can be things in your life that are challenged, that are negative that are Making the best possible Why? And finding your purpose is all about translating those into positives. So let's have a listen to David me and Peter darker, talking about turning a negative into a positive.

Unknown Speaker 43:14

who've heard me speak may have heard me talk it will tell the story of Dylan, friend of my, my children, and Dylan was almost killed in a motorbike accident. Now at the time, that was an extremely distressing negative story if you like. However, the positive that he's drawn out of that in terms of why he does what he does, has been extraordinary. So all of these stories, we can often find something positive from them in terms of what we were able to go on do or go on to be. And then it just acts as further reformation or reaffirmation of who we are and our values and what we believe so, all of these stories, whether positive or negative to help plus points on that one. And sometimes again, it's the partner who can identify the positive points, if you like from that negative story, who we became how we grow or how we grew from that, that particular event. So again, your partner is your friend.

Unknown Speaker 44:18

Yeah. One of the things we talk about guys, when we run these workshops is you don't have to share something you don't want to share. But if it feels like a little bit of a risk to risk to share, it's most likely a good thing to tap into. So in terms of which stories to share,

Chad Owen 44:33

yeah, what what's that saying, Mike? Something like, you know, hard times, doesn't, you know, form character, it reveals character, I think. I think that's what's going on here is that it's often that those hard times that it you know, where you are demonstrating your resiliency and your grit, determination. Yeah, how you bounce back from those negative circumstances can often be a huge signal as to what your y is because, like, while you might not know it explicitly, like you might not have the words or the phrase of what your y is. That's why you are bouncing back. Right? It's like why you're getting back up and trying again, it's because you have that inner drive that y that's that's, that's taking it further. Yeah,

mike parsons 45:21

yeah. The, the thing that I feel is the takeaway for our audience here, like the thing. The way to process this is this art that the cynic talks about of go back and gather the stories. And he mentioned earlier that like, it's usually something that probably happened somewhere around your teenage years. Go find those formative stories that shaped who you are, that have, you know, brought out in you both your strengths and your weaknesses, but more importantly, that are accruing to your purpose, go get that thing and unlock those with the frame of how can you find your purpose? And how can you use that and this is very much what I did what will be my legacy, right? I will be a better coach than those that coached me, I will give people the chance to go do brave and audacious things. Whether I'm watching a guy on the rugby field, who's doing something we trained on during the week, or whether one of my colleagues has taken on an idea or suggestion for me and is enjoying the fruits of that success. It doesn't matter. It's all about finding that thing. Find that purpose, unlock it, and call upon that life of experience, as these well of energy and motivation. to be resilient, to be purposeful to hold on to something and just don't give up just go forward for me. That's the gift in all of this. And And, look, it will take time, like we've talked about. Don't do this alone. I think it's fair to say, Chad. This is like, it's like perfection. You'll spend your life seeking it and you'll never find it. It's like you're always working on your why.

Chad Owen 47:28

Yeah. Well, and anyone that's known you long enough, Mike has, has heard your stories that I know form the core of your why, and we don't have to belabour it here. But in this episode, I'm drawing the connections. I'm like, Oh, my xy comes from those experiences. Exactly. And as you said, in assignments I'd like they're often ones that we have very young in life. And for me, I actually think this is kind of the most controversial clip In the show, because when I, when I heard it, I didn't believe it, or I didn't want to believe it. So I may want to argue with them on this. But you know, I'll just play the clip and see what you think Mike about whether or not are wide changes or grows or evolves over time. The we only have one

Why? And again, this is a matter of perspective, right? So oftentimes we think one of the big things that we see is that people say well, my family is my wife. Your family is actually one of your ones. It's it's one of the opportunities that you have to show up and live your why. Your Why is much bigger than that. And the way that I like to think about it is we are who we are, wherever we are. And that is at work at home with our friends, in the community, anywhere that we are our Why is the same. We are ourselves we are our best selves, no matter what situation We're in place we have the opportunity to be we're not always. So we only have one y, for work for home for everywhere. And I will leave the second half of the question of does our wire change

Unknown Speaker 49:12

to Peter?

Unknown Speaker 49:14

Okay, so why the words we use and the y can morph over time, but the feeling behind them doesn't change. So for example, the first part of my why to enable people it used to be to enable others, and then I changed others to people because in my mind, people including myself, too, and sometimes for me to better enable others, perhaps offer a busy travelling schedule or whatever I need just to enable myself a little bit. So the word people included myself too. So yes, words might morph over time. I think David you you've, you've changed one or two your words. Over the few years, we've known one another,

Unknown Speaker 49:56

just one or two.

Unknown Speaker 49:59

And that's okay. It's the feeling behind it. The words, as we know, the the wind comes from our limbic part of the brain responsible for all behaviour all decision making, and it's got no capacity for language. So at the very best, our y statements is an approximation and expression of the feeling that lies behind our wires. So it's quite likely that the words will change but the feeling words and to David's point, we only have one Why? One wildly?

Unknown Speaker 50:29

Hmm, why to rule them all.

mike parsons 50:32

I have a take on what they're saying. And I'll try and say it differently. And then Chad, you can you can tell me if this helps at all. So I'll just use myself as the case in point just just to be, you know, super pragmatic. I think if you'd said to me, you know, like 10 years ago, so 10 years ago, I was still in London. Okay. And I was reading sponsible for a large agency that had more than 100 people in it, and if you'd asked me what was my why the best articulation I probably could have given you at the time was, I love building teams. And in doing that, I like to try and create an environment and, you know, be the boss, be the good boss, like we've all had in our life managers or bosses that we reported to particularly when we were young and climbing up the totem pole. And the you know, the terrible boss,

Unknown Speaker 51:30

wait for them to get out of our way. Yeah,

mike parsons 51:32

and they just make your life terrible. And it's like, I can't believe how much I hate this job. And it's like only because of this person, right? So I would try and be the opposite of that. But here's the thing. So my why 10 years ago would have been team building and so forth. But the downside of that is I probably was too much the optimists Mr. Positivity is to energy minister. Let's do something good. And I probably didn't pay enough. attention to the tough conversations. You know, the conversations were Hey, making someone accountable. Because I felt like I was just missed a positive team building come to today, I relish the opportunity to praise and to be positive, but I equally relish the chance to give constructive feedback that sometimes might be confronting or tough to hear. Because I think that's what a coach does. And to maybe I've moved from being the team captain to being the team coach. And that's why I like this word of coaching my why because the journey over time is yes, it's the same feeling. But I think we discover more and more insights. And things change over over time for us in our role within our community, family and work. But the big thing for me is you get more understanding and you can put a finer point on it. I have never Had the level of comfort and understanding of my why, then I have today because I think I've made this ability to pull, if you will, emerging coaching themes that were in my career 10 years ago. And I've raised that straight into everything that I do 10 years later, in the way I talk to my son has complete parallels with colleagues or rugby players. And one of the great things that I have learned to do because I tried to be a coach is I might sit with the standard, the guys on the rugby field and say, Okay, guys, what do we like about that skill exercise? And what could we do better? And it's even got to the stage where I say, do you think we should do it again? Like, are you guys happy with that level of performance? Or do you think we can do better? And I think the emerging coach in me 10 years ago, would have just been chatting. Yeah, yeah, fellas, let's go again. Let's go Again, but now there's a level of coaching and thoughtfulness in the way I do it. That is no different to me talking to my son about his report card, or how he might tackle something with school. It's like, Well, what do you what do you think you should do? And what's the challenge? And how might we tackle that? And I think I didn't have that 10 years ago. So this is a long winded way of me saying, I think this is how the wide changes. Yes, the same feeling. But I think if you're doing it right, it should almost be changing, definitely in language. But I would even go as far as saying I think it should evolve, like a good bottle of wine. It should just taste better over time.

Chad Owen 54:43

Yeah, I think the the proponent of free will in me was fighting against the determinism of there's only one why, but I think the metaphor for me and I think probably kind of aligns with the experience that you've had and shared, as you said, You know how it's maybe changed over the past 10 years, you're going to throw, you know, you're going to do some of the exercises in this book, and you're going to try to find your why. And you're going to throw your first Dart. And it's not going to be a bullseye. I mean, like, hopefully you hit target, but you're kind of in the ballpark, so to speak. And then as you keep refining these exercises, sharing more stories, getting reflections from others, eventually you'll get closer and closer to that bull's eye. And then, you know, hopefully, without too much work, you can really land on that bullseye. And then, as I was saying, like, everything in your life really just ties back to your why. And so, for me, I almost use like, you know, I'll look at an aspect or an area of my life and say, is it in alignment with my y or not, and then figure out okay, is there something that I love and do that really brings me alive and helps others it's like, not incorporated into my wife. So then maybe how can I rephrase it, kind of when you're like you saying that you shifted from team captain To team coach, like, Yes, I got it. You're like, Oh, that was kind of the mindset shift. Yes. on your part. And so, so yeah, I think it's, I would say I also kind of fall on like you do just have one why, but it might be kind of a path of discovery. really hone in and figure out what it is.

mike parsons 56:18

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, look, this all sounds a bit serious. And it took to lighten it up a little bit. I would just say this. By the very virtue that you read this book and think about these things, and do some meaningful contemplation, you will be a better person.

Unknown Speaker 56:40

Like, like, Don't get caught

Chad Owen 56:42

up in what we're doing more work in, like 98% of the population, right?

mike parsons 56:47

Because, you know, we, all the listeners of this show will have met lots of people in their life, that you can just feel they're not really doing what they love. It's all about complaining. It's in the workplace. It's the classic, this person just can't wait to get out of the office. And what I know when I'm at my best is when I have an idea on the weekend for something at work and out of my own free will. I just enjoy writing it down for an hour, and just contemplating it, I get this deep sense of satisfaction. And I think earlier in my career, I would have been resentful of losing that hour of my personal time to work time. So I think that in my journey, I feel like every day, I enjoy the privilege of some way somehow directing myself in a good path. Because I've read a book like this, and I've used a textbook like find your why, and that I do things like I do Strengths Finder. 2.0 I go to 16 personalities to try and discover more about who I am. Because I think that it's it's human nature. It's all maybe even a survival trait that you hope to understand who you are in order to live better. I think it's, it's, it's like don't get caught up in the grammar of your wife statement. The fact that if you've even lost it this long in our podcast chat and listen to the two of us banging on about this book. Even if you've got that stamina, you're on the path, you're going in the right direction. Because the real truth is, most people don't put in the work. And most people don't stop and ask that the question of why am I here? What am I trying to do? What's my legacy? How can I help the people around me? How will I be remembered when I'm not here anymore? Like, just by pure virtue of getting into this stuff. I think you will see And uptake, this keyword, not just to happiness, but I think if there was anything to take out of this book is the sense of fulfilment will come? Because you're doing things that answer to to your calling into your purpose.

Chad Owen 59:17

Hmm. I could not agree more. But we don't want to leave you without hearing from Mr. Simon Sinek himself one last time as he's going to kind of tie a bow on this entire discussion about his book and collaboration with David and Peter, find your why. And it's a bit of kind of like a call to action for how once we've done a bit of this work, we've found, you know, a pretty good statement of why, how we might bring it to life.

Simon Sinek 59:52

So one frequent question that we get is now that you've found your why, what do you do with it? How do you use it well, One of the things you want to do is keep it all around you. One of the things that I've done is I actually would write my why, on my desk next to my bed so that I was reminded of it. That's number one, but also start talking about it. I start meetings with it. When I sit down with a meeting, I say, before we start this meeting, I'd like to tell you why I took this meeting or why I called this meeting. And I refer to my why, and say how I believe that this potential partnership or this potential relationship could help me advance my cause company advance my wife works every time. It's extremely valuable in resumes and interviews as well, when somebody says, so why do you want this job you say, let me tell you why I do everything and maybe tell a story from your childhood are one of the stories that you told in the wide discovery process to communicate your point. I used to do that in all my interviews, I still do it now. I start meetings, I start talks, I start all kinds of things with it. And it gives people a context for who you are and where you're coming from. It's a huge advantage on resumes as well. I've never really understood at the top of resumes when people write purpose in They say to get a job in a top performing law firm, blah, blah, blah, whatever they write, of course, that's why everybody's applying for the job. rather use that space at the top of your resume to explain who you are. Basically, why you do what you do. It gives context to all the other jobs you've ever had. It gives context for who you are, and it helps us stand out in the crowd of people who have similar experiences to us. It also helps us understand sometimes where relationships fail, where we sometimes did things or said yes to things that in our guts that felt wrong, but if we compare it to our why we realised that we should never have done it in the first place. So use it front and centre speak about it, tell the stories use the stories as metaphors to explain who you are. Talk about it constantly start meetings with it.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:44

Yeah,

mike parsons 1:01:46

I like the practical advice of putting it at the top of your resume. But equally Chad, I like this idea of just having the presence of mind to To reflect upon your why and to frame the things that you do through that lens of of the why. So I think we can both take him at a very practical end at a metaphorical manner in this this landscape. I think it's very powerful to, to anchor yourself in it because Chad, what I would propose is that you make better choices every day. If you're aware of your why, I mean, one thing that you and I know that the the thing I always do, as soon as finance and reporting and operations comes up, I run for the hills. I don't want anything to do with it. You're nowhere because I don't add any value and I don't enjoy it. And there's people who can do it way better than me. Because actually, financial reporting feels like a world away from coaching people to do brave and audacious things. So I feel like I'm off track. I'm like, February In reasons I shouldn't be here that's an example of having you know your why to life having it on the top of your metaphorical notepad to do list your resume whatever it is, helps you make better decisions. I mean that's what I'm taking from that last thought from from Simon.

Chad Owen 1:03:19

Yeah, I think he's quite bold and saying you know, hey lead meetings with it, shout it from the rooftops I, I see it in the lens of his especially when it comes to client engagements. For me, it's really all about finding a good fit. The worst feeling that you can have as a business owner is just to like, go out and be a schlocky seller and just sell, sell, sell to people who don't want to have anything to do with with what you're selling. But if you lead with your why, and you can go back to and listen to start with why and why this works. But if you lead with your why then you connect with the people who believe what you believe And then it's, you know, you're meant to be together and to do that work together. So I, I agree with him, like you should, you know, at the top of a meeting can just say, hey, the purpose of this meeting is to see if working together is a good fit both for you and for me, here's my why. And you share it. And then if you see some nodding heads, and they're like, Oh, yeah, like, I'm totally into that too, then, you know, it's a pretty good fit. But if you see people running for the hills, then yeah, maybe it might not be such a great fit. And the same for hiring and, and, you know, pretty, you know, on the job hunt,

mike parsons 1:04:37

as well. Absolutely. And something to kind of try and tie this all together is that that personal anecdote that I gave of like, I can see things and I'm not perfect, and I'm working on a lot of stuff. But I can see things across the spectrum in my life, where it all comes back to this coaching, mentoring, teaching. Helping supporting others to do brave and audacious I can see a little bit of that in all sorts of different interactions. And that gives me the energy to in the space of one week is to take care of a couple of different offices in our company to produce a podcast to coach, a semi professional means rugby team, to to be a father to be a husband. Like I could go on, but but the the, the personal thing that I can share is that the energy to do all of those things in a week comes from the fact that each and every single one of those things, feels like I'm living up to my purpose in some way. And that gives you this abundance of motivation. And I think this is perhaps the hidden secret that is not hard to get out of bed, when you've got a day full of things that bring you joy, and bring you fulfilment, but it's really not that How to get at a bit. Hmm It's always if you if you wake up and you're hitting snooze and then you're like you're probably getting a subconscious message that not enough of the day is about serving your wife or serving your purpose. Mm hmm.

Chad Owen 1:06:17

And you know, there's small little changes that you can do a little every day to move you closer to to the fulfilment that you get from your why. For me, it's much of my Why is around learning not just for myself but helping others learn as well. That can take the form of big grandiose things but it can also be little things you know, in that this podcast is is included in that. I don't want the episode to end without my call to action again, for those listeners of you quick you'd like I'm sure someone else took action on that first, that first mention halfway through the show. I've got got three spots, I would love to help some fellow listeners work together, share some stories, figure out more about our why's. And yeah, for me, it's, again, everything for me is all about learning. So learning how others come to find their why and how we can better find our y's together. And I'm, I'm super pumped to, to hear from you all and go through that. Awesome.

mike parsons 1:07:29

So there you have it, find your why by Simon Sinek. And he's two friends David Mead and Peter Docker. What, uh, I mean, this has to be the most pragmatic, practical, productive book that we've ever covered. Not only in this series of assignments in it, but this has to be probably one of the most practical shows we've ever done in our two year history. What do you think?

Chad Owen 1:07:55

Yeah, yeah, and it's funny because you might not expect it from someone like Simon If you if you see his his TED Talks, but I think that's why he sought out his co authors maybe like you he understood that writing the textbook on finding your why was probably not his best strong suit, but he can ensure that it has the essence of, of, of his, his thoughts and teaching. Yeah, and you know, it elaborates the theme of together is better, right? So he he sought out David and Peter to help him on this journey because he, he wanted to scale. He wanted to scale the Golden Circle and his thoughts on leadership. You know, why to more people and he realised that he couldn't do it on his own.

mike parsons 1:08:42

Yeah, and I think a couple of practical takeouts don't try and find your why alone. Make sure you pick something that are real, why right. So what contribution Do you want to make to the world so that there can be a certain impact. Make sure you frame it that and as they call it out, it's not like your family, your kids, those are the opportunities for you to live your why. Right? So coaching a team, taking care of your family, working together with your colleagues working within your community groups, those are chances to live your why your why is a contribution that has impact. And you can take all of those things that have happened in life and turn them all into your chance to pay for it and do it better and to leave a legacy to have purpose and as in all good things. It is a life long pursuit. And when you do it, I think good things happen.

Chad Owen 1:09:49

I don't I don't have much to add on that. Mike. It seems like we're at the end of this show. But not quite to the end of the series. Julius

mike parsons 1:09:58

Yes, rainy thoughts Simon cynic was out. We drag you back in. We have one more and perhaps, Chad. You know, I'm quite an enthusiastic young man. Perhaps the most exciting show yet. What will be our fourth and final part of our Simon Sinek series?

Chad Owen 1:10:19

So we will have it's our fifth. Mike, we we've done so many shows on this. It'll be the sixth episode on Simon the fifth in the book series.

mike parsons 1:10:31

Oh my gosh, I can't keep up

myself. You're right. You're right.

Chad Owen 1:10:35

Yeah. He. So Simon has a new book coming out called the infinite game. And we've scoured the interwebs and found Simon giving us a great preview of this content. If you followed his YouTube videos, Ted Talks, you you may be like, hey, when you're reading the book, this is just what he was talking about in his TED Talks. And I think he's One of those authors that does a great job of testing out his content before distilling it down into a book by going out and speaking about it. So we've got some really fantastic clips that's pulling content straight out of the book from the future, even before it's published. And that will be our last episode here on the assignments and next year is the infinite game.

mike parsons 1:11:20

Yeah. And we'd love to hear from you. Who's going to be the next focus of our attention. Is it another author? Or do we need to focus on a company? We did the apple series, we've done an author series with our Simon Sinek series. We need to hear from you tell us what is grabbing your curiosity and attention and what are you dying?

Chad Owen 1:11:43

Yeah, go and do our research on to bring you some clips of wisdom.

mike parsons 1:11:49

Yeah, and we think we might have a number of different types of series we could do sort of a new refresh on On the world of startups, we could perhaps we are very fond of an author called Cal Newport. And he could he's emerging as an almost Simon Sinek. Like, kind of guy. We could potentially,

Chad Owen 1:12:15

yeah, I don't want to do like a revisit of some of our very first episodes that have gotten lost. In the back catalogue. We can maybe go back and see what we were saying about these individuals kind of seeing if our predictions were right or wrong. And then, you know, with the likes of Jeff Bezos and Ilan Musk, so much happens in the span of like, six weeks, let alone does he think

mike parsons 1:12:44

that's true? That's true. Well, there's plenty of opportunities for us to delve deep into the adventures in the world of innovation and we look to you our audience, tell us who you're interested in what you're interested in, and that will give us endless inspiration for the next shows we've just got so many ways we can take the show. And we look to you our listeners just to point us in the right direction. So thank you to you, our audience. Thank you to you, Chad. What our heavy duty show that was very pragmatic, full of tips and notes to self. Hmm,

Chad Owen 1:13:20

yeah, I was kind of cramming before the show rereading the book and re listening to the book on audiobook and I feel like there's so much more I got to go back and do now that I've that I've reread it.

mike parsons 1:13:31

I was rereading the book in between meetings yesterday. And it was quite hilarious me train. I was felt like my son cramming for exams. I'm like, trying to sneak in a few few chapters here and there. But once again, thank you to you, Chad to our listeners. Thank you to Simon Sinek for inspiring us so much. We look forward to the last part of the Simon Sinek series in the next show. of the moonshots podcast. That's a wrap

Transcribed by https://otter.ai