steve jobs ParT II

episode 36

Join us for the second part of a journey into the greatest innovator of our time - Steve Jobs. Steve saw the world in a unique way that has some much relevance to today's innovators.

Get ready to settle in for some deep learning from the Steve. The show will cover the early days, the ups and downs of Apple and the earth-shattering creation of the iMac, iPod, iPhone. This show is unmissable.

SHOW INTRO

• Intro 2 - Complete Life Timeline

A-BLOCK - INNOVATION

• Courage & Betting On The Future

• Deep Thinking And Asking Why

• Focus Comes From Saying No - Setting Priorities

• Steve’s Advice For Mike Parker Nike CEO

• We Don’t Ship Junk - We Have Standards

— Mike recaps and teases what’s next.

B-BLOCK - PHILOSOPHY

• Curiosity Calligraphy 10-Years Later Dots Connect

• Larry Ellison - Perfection And Perspiration

• Don’t Be Afraid To Fail

• Getting Fired Was Best Thing Possible -Don't Settle

— Show notes, feedback, tease next show...

TRANSCRIPT

Hello, welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's a very special episode, 36. I'm your cohost Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined by the man from Vulcan himself, Mr. Chatto and. Good evening, Mike. Good and well, I would say good morning to you in it. Beautiful sunrise across that Manhattan skyline, Chad, we, uh, this is the first time this show.

This is a very, very special type of episode. Why don't you tell our awesome audience what we have in store for them? Today. Yeah. So if you're just jumping into the moonshots podcast feed, uh, you're actually jumping into this second episode on, on a singular individual. It's the first time we've had to split up an episode, but you won't be surprised to learn that.

Steve jobs warrants, uh, taking the time, you know, over the course of two shows to go through. Um, we've got at least two dozen clips, uh, between the two shows here. I think the big secret here Chad is we've probably got three or four shows. Do you think know I'm sure that we will be revisiting Steve, uh, and, and wisdom that he's drafted at some point in the future.

In addition to everything that we've discussed. Yeah, uh, on the last show and have yet to discuss on this show. But, um, so before, before we kind of do a little bit of a recap and get, get into the clips last show, we talked a little bit kind of the, the beginnings and the history of Apple. And some of the kind of tactical business, uh, activities and strategies.

What, what have we got on, on today's show Mike? Well, I think this is a, a beautiful companion to the previous show because I think we're going to get into sort of the thinking, uh, and the philosophies that Steve brought to both Apple and Pixar. And I think what comes out of that was some very special approaches to creating.

Really breakthrough products and services. And I want to remind people that it was, you know, the iPod, I choose the iPhone, the iPad, and all of that at Apple. But what is so exceptional about Steve is there was Pixar as well and the ground and the Macintosh, and it goes on and on. But the truth being that even if you were to judge Steve just by either he's accomplishments with Pixar, Or Apple either way you cut it.

It's great. But the fact that one human was in two places at the same time, doing all this magic is truly exceptional. And I think, you know, it was a Testament to the ad campaign that they had to think different. This was really what we learned in the previous show that there were these great stories of how he completely outfoxed.

Uh, Disney for, for Pixar how he outfoxed IBM for, um, on Apple's behalf. I mean, it was just really phenomenal and we heard gushing praises from everyone. Uh, who's worth something in tech. They, they really did see him as. Uh, not only one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time, but maybe ever. I just, in my research, Chad, I didn't actually get this clipping, uh, to any of our shows, but just as an off kind of an offhand comment, Mark Andreessen, who is featured in our show, and he's one of the greatest tech investors in Silicon Valley, he says, look, I made about 1500 founders a year.

And he said nine out of 10, say that their inspiration for creating a company was Steve jobs. Isn't that re isn't that ridiculous? Yeah, I think, um, for I'm a little overwhelmed at the, the number, number of clips and amount of wisdom that we're getting from Steve and I would actually. Just encourage you the listener to pick one or two that resonate most for you in what you're working on right now.

Um, that's kind of what I had done with the last show and, and I'm sure I'll end up with this show. There's just because he talks about so many different areas, both of business and creativity and innovation, you know, it might be hard to choose just one, but, uh, But yeah, I, I, I think, um, by the end, hopefully you'll, you'll have some favorites, of course.

And I think we would encourage everyone to check out ass site, moonshots.io, because there you can get all the show notes, links, references, follow up materials, all sorts of good stuff. But, um, I think we're ready to have a different kind of introduction, uh, to the last show. The last one was great. We had Steve himself reading the Apple campaign manifesto for the, uh, the crazy ones this time.

We're going to get a bit of a, a smorgasbord, a bit of a showcase of what he accomplished in a lifetime. So let's get our minds ready for the life of Steve jobs. There is not a single executive or creator in the technology industry. More important than Steve jobs born in San Francisco, California on February 24th, 1955.

Steven Paul was adopted by Paul and Clara jobs. Shortly after birth. Steve showed a lot of interest in electronics at a young age because. So his family had moved to Los Altos, California. He had Hewlett Packard around there. You had other emerging companies. And so he was thrilled during high school jobs met Steve Wasniak and the two were hired during summers at Hewlett Packard.

Later jobs dropped out of college, but informally continued his education. He wasn't a geek from early on, although he certainly had a high technical expertise. He needed a partner like Steve Wazniak to bring that element to it. But in terms of developing himself, he had interests in art and history.

History in all kinds of areas that are highly unusual for someone in his field in 1976 jobs in Wozniak started Apple computers from the jobs, family garage, and with the Apple two, they found success that Apple one computer didn't sell very well. It wasn't really a functional computer. That demonstrated a true capability for personal computing.

But what they did is they designed the Apple too, that became extremely popular. And within a few years, it was selling over a hundred million dollars worth of computers. Apple went public on December 12th, 1980, with a value of $1.2 billion its first day. But in the next few years lost its market share to IBM by 1985, Apple forced jobs to resign.

When Steve jobs was pushed out of Apple, he picked himself up again pretty quickly. He grabbed the people. He, he wanted to be involved at his new company, which was called next. And they started about building the new company. Job's purchased the Lucasfilm graphics division, renamed Pixar in 1986 and worked as the company CEO while still actively developing his computer company.

Next next. Computer was the underpinnings of what was coming next at Apple, everything that went on at Apple, including the operating system, including the design had its origins and next Apple purchase next in 1996 and eventually returned jobs to CEO is software called next step, evolved into Mac OS 10.

Which led the Apple technology revolution. The iPhone is the single most important device of the modern era. It is the smartphone, which is this all-in-one device. And so it's conceptually the iPod to the iPhone, to the iPad, to the what's. Next has been the most important trend in technology. What Apple really has done has raised the world's awareness of design.

And functionality people look at these things and they just have to have them. And once they have them, they love them. In 2011, Forbes magazine named Apple, the most valuable company in the world. That same year jobs resigned as CEO and on October 5th, 2011, Steve jobs died due to complications from pancreatic cancer.

I think Steve jobs legacy will be here for a very, very long time. It will be there at Apple and there'll be at other companies. His legacy is not just the way he ran Apple or the way he developed products. It's a whole slew of different things that he was able to do so effectively that have changed our lives forever.

And the timeline so interesting for maybe some of you younger listeners, you may not remember that Steve jobs, wasn't the CEO of Apple for, for 10 years. And that he, you know, went on to, to found a small little movie production animation studio called Pixar. Which actually IPO did a higher valuation than Apple's IPO in, uh, in 1980, I found that kind of interesting.

Yeah. And in the same year, the year that, uh, that pics are listed was the same year that Netscape listed and it was valued higher than Netscape. One of the biggest IPO's and what back in the day, and now I'm showing my age, is that when Netscape. When IPO, that was the beginning of the first internet bubble.

So that's how prolific it was in, in, in the midst of all of this. Let's just remember he was an amazing CEO at not only Apple, but that picks up, but in order to get there, his path was actually getting fired. A founder got fired by one of his employees who convinced the board to fire Steve, like that is such a twist.

Yeah, but he's, he's, he shrugs it off and found two companies next and Pixar one that goes on to become the beam of, of, of animation that it is, is today. And you know, this, this pattern to, to both Pixar and Apple, where they seem to have been working on something that turns out to be a brilliant prediction of what's to come, they always like, you know, you think about it now.

Animated films, animated feature films. You know, they launched all the time, but it picks up where the first and they saw something coming. So they built the technology. We take smartphones for granted and you know, we, there are successful companies now who are literally built on the principle of mobile first.

And that starts 2007. IPhone game changer. And the crazy thing is that they really seem when you put Pixar and Apple together, one of the big themes here is that they appreciate, they seem to have the ability to be in the right type, uh, right place at that right time. And I think this first clip is really insightful, uh, when we listened to Steve telling us about how to have the courage to bet on something big.

For the future. Apple is a company that has, doesn't have the most resources of everybody in the world. And the way we've succeeded is by choosing what horses to ride really carefully. Technically, we try to look for these technical vectors that, that have a future and that are headed up and, you know, technology, different pieces of technology.

Kind of go in cycles. They have their, their Springs and summers and Autumns, and then they, you know, go to the graveyard of technology. And so we try to pick things that are in their Springs. And if you choose wisely, you can save yourself an enormous amount of work versus trying to do everything. And you can really put energy into making those new emerging technologies, uh, be great on your platform.

Rather than just okay. Because you're spreading yourself too thin. So we have a history of doing that. As an example, we went from the five inch floppy disc to the three and a half inch floppy disc the Mac before it, before other people. Right. The first to do that, we made the three and a half inch floppy, this popular, um, Sony invented it.

And we, we put in, in the first products, um, And there were some good reasons we did that. We got rid of the floppy disc altogether in 1998 with the first iMac. We also got rid of these things called serial and parallel ports. And we were the first to adopt USB, even though Intel had invented it. You first saw it in mass, on IMAX.

And so we have gotten rid of things. We were one of the first to get rid of optical drives with the Mac book air. And I think things are moving in that direction as well. And sometimes when we get rid of things like the floppy disk drive on the original iMac, people call us crazy or at least premature, maybe no, they call us crazy.

Uh, but sometimes you just, yeah. Have to pick the things that look like they're going to be the right horses to ride going forward. And what do people say. You know, the iPad is, uh, uh, crippled in this respect, but you know, well, I'd say two things. Number one, things are packages of, of emphasis. Some things are emphasized in a product.

Some things are not done as well in a product. Some things are chosen not to be done at all in a product. And so different people make different choices. And if the market tells us we're making the wrong choices, we listen to the market. Well, we're just, we're just people running this company. We're trying to make great products for people.

And so we're, we have the, at least the courage of our convictions to say, we don't think this is part of what makes a great product. We're going to leave it out. Some people are going to not like that. They're going to call us names. It's not going to be in certain companies, vested interests that we do that, but we're going to take the heat.

Cause we want to make the best product in the world for customers. And we're going to instead focus our energy on these technologies, which we think are in their ascendancy. And we think are going to be the right technologies for customers and you know what, they're paying us to make those choices.

That's what a lot of customers pay us to do is to try to make the best products we can. And if we succeed, they'll buy them. And if we don't, they won't, and it'll all work itself out. I know that that clip is a little old Mike, but I mean, it's almost as if he could be saying the same thing today, right? No headphone cords charging port.

I, do you remember the serial and parallel at the back of your computer? I remember those days, I, it was, Oh my gosh. And, and sometimes we hate them a bit for it. I'm sitting here and I've got one of the cars. I got a brand new. MacBook pro I've got one of those funny USBC, adapters, that, to fit all the things that have the old USB and I'm like cursing them.

Cause like, why would you build a product that forces me to buy an accessory? Because you don't have the right ports, but I love these packages of emphasis and the courage of conviction. They make a call and they go for it. And he's like, I don't know why everyone hates us because in the end, if you don't want it, don't buy it.

And. If you like it, buy it and everything will work itself out. It's quite funny. But in the end, what for me is a learning in this is, you know, know your business and have the courage of your convictions. Don't hedge go, you know, Get all in on what you believe in. And I think he's, he's success only goes to prove to us that that really works.

You can't, you know, you can't win being half-pregnant you just got to get all in. Yeah. I think I loved when he said customers pay us to make these sorts of decisions. And I think that's actually a really interesting way for him to view the market and, and his customers, because. I think at the end of the day, you know, people and pop culture kind of look to Apple as a tastemaker, um, across kind of all categories, you know, both in design and, and, and now, you know, music and the arts and, and everything.

Um, I actually think Steve jobs is quite right there in that he really set a direction for Apple to be a very focused. Technology company. And as you said, use the courage of their convictions to make some hard decisions and yeah, alienates, some people, he was quite right. Like, if you want 16 USB ports and your serial port and your floppy disks, like get a PC, but it's just not going to be as elegant and useful and kind of purposeful as a Macintosh would be, or an iMac or, you know, the, the products that they're.

They're making today. So while I understand the criticism of Apple getting rid of these ports and making things difficult, I think it's well within their design philosophy of where getting hyper-focused on our products, we're betting on what we believe is going to be the future technologies and, and technologies that are on their ascendancy.

Not on their way out, right? Like, I mean, how long has U S just regular USB then? Around, you know, like forever. So like, so like, yeah, they're, you know, they're placing big bets on the future and, you know, at this point they're a large enough company where they have, I think, an outsize weight and influence on, you know, What, uh, what the future technologies will be.

So I, I think it's just very interesting, very interesting that he's like, you know what customers are going to go elsewhere if they don't want it, but they pay us to make these decisions. It's, it's, it's kind of baked into the business model. It is, it is. And it reminds me a lot of Jeff Bezos actually baseless has this quote, like if you never want to be criticized for goodness sake, don't do anything new.

And this is where there's like this direct, um, bridge between these two very different entrepreneurs. But I think the lesson is the same and, and I mean, I just think when you want to push things forward, you've got to be prepared to get a little bit of heat, but you've got to stay the course. You've got to, you know, keep to your convictions.

And it's the companies that do that, that win because they're often pushing against the status quo or conventional thinking. And I think as any entrepreneur, when they bring something to market, it has to be a radically different approach to solving a big problem. And I think we're learning from Steve here is just.

Have the courage of, of your convictions and go out and do that. And I think it's such a powerful way to start thinking about products, but what's interesting is that I think Steve has so much more to offer, offer us here. I think one of the things that I don't know, do you notice this every time he speaks on a topic, have you noticed that he has a command?

He has almost like a thoughtfulness, Chad. Um, the topics he talks about that is quite exceptional. I mean, it's like, he is thought a lot about the things he has to say. You never feel like he's riffing. Do you and off the cuff, no, he's digging in deep and pulling out some really big thoughts. Yeah. And many of these innovations just simply take time.

You know, if, if he's going to and the team at Apple is going to find those technologies that are in their spring and place those bets, they need to take the time to research and develop and prototype. He found a Pixar in 1986. I don't think toy story came out until it was like 1994, maybe 1995. So like there was almost 10 years of research and development to get toy story onto the screen.

And we have a great clip here from Steve, really just talking about his philosophy for this deep thinking that you're, that you're speaking about Mike. So here's, here's Steve on a deep thinking and the value and asking why. You know, throughout the years in business, I found something which was, I'd always ask why you do things and the answers you invariably get are, Oh, that's just the way it's done.

Nobody knows why they do what they do. Nobody thinks about things very deeply in business. That's what I found. I'll give you an example. Um, When we were building our Apple ones in the garage, we knew exactly what they cost. Uh, when we got into a factory in the Apple two days, um, the accounting had this notion of a standard cost.

Where you'd kind of set a standard cost. And then at the end of a quarter, you'd adjust it with a variance. And I kept asking, well, why do we do this? And the answer was, well, that's just the way it's done. And after about six months of digging into this, what I realized was the reason you do it is because you don't really, they have good enough controls to know how much it costs.

So you guess, and then you fix your guests at the end of the quarter. And the reason you don't know how much it cost is because your information systems aren't good enough. So, but nobody said it that way. And so later on, when we designed this automated factory for Macintosh, we were able to get rid of a lot of these antiquated concepts and know exactly what something costs to the second.

Um, so in business, a lot of things are, I call it folklore. They're done because they were done yesterday and the day before. And so what that means is, is if you're willing to sort of ask a lot of questions and think about things and work really hard, you can learn business pretty fast. It's not the hardest thing in the world.

Not rocket science. It's not rocket science. No. Not rocket science. Yeah. There's this like this almost folksy nature to how he sees businesses in their chair. Uh, I think he does a little bit of a disservice just saying, Oh yeah. You know, like you can study it and like, make it happen. Like, I'm sorry, Steve, but not everyone can just do that and found yeah.

Companies like Apple and Pixar. Yeah, the normal gym might need a little bit more homework than that. Yeah. But I think his admonition to us to question the way things have been done in the past, that is a trait throughout every single person that we have profiled here from Jack ma to bill Belichick, to lady Gaga, to Martha Stewart, the healthy questioning of the way things have been done before.

I mean, How else are you going to get to innovation? If innovation is something new and novel that creates a positive change in the world. That's my own personal definition of innovation. Um, you, yeah, you, you have to, the question what's come before to, in order to create something new. So I think. While he writes off how easy it is to learn business.

I, you know, I, I do think that asking why and questioning the way things have been done in the past is, is very effective. And it can be for something as boring as accounting costs for manufacturing, a computer. You know, I think the fact that someone like Steve jobs is questioning something in that much detail really just tells you how obsessive he is in asking why and doing this deep thinking.

Yeah. And just to take a tangent just for a moment here, you remember that Simon Sinek. Really transformed a lot of creative industries by his book, start with why. And do you remember he had a famous YouTube clip and he told his whole why framework with one example. And do you remember which company was the example?

I didn't use Apple. I feel like, yeah, that was a leading question. Was Apple. It was Apple. So. Asking why, uh, is not only something that worked for Steve, but this whole paradigm of people are moved, not by what you do, but far more so how you do it and why you do it. So mission and vision are particularly important in a world where there's so many copycat products.

Why is it that Warby Parker continues to thrive despite its competitors, Airbnb and so on and so forth is because they have great emissions that build affinity and give people a sense of purpose when they participate with your products and with your brand. And I think no company, maybe Nike, but. Nike and Apple are alone in the universe for brands that make people feel better for being part of the experiences, participating in the services, using the products.

And this all comes from that central. Thought that starts with their products and they ask you, why is it done this way? How can it be done better? What would be a radically better way, but you can't get away with just asking why. And I think what's so powerful about Steve is. He, what he pointed out in that earlier clip chat, I think is something very important for us.

Is it like he, they make big bets on the future and they have the courage to follow through their convictions, but there's a little new ones here. And this next clip, Steve starts to touch on this idea of focus and how we can actually gain focus and the role that that has to play in creating breakthrough new products.

So let's have a listen to Steve jobs. Apple suffered for several years from no PR from lousy engineering management. I have to say it. And there were people that were going off in 18 different directions doing arguably interesting things in each one of them. Good engineers, lousy management. And what happened was you look at the farm that's been created with all these different animals going in different directions, and it doesn't add up total is less than the sum of the parts.

And so we had to decide what are the facts, mental directions we're going in and what makes sense and what doesn't. And there were a bunch of things that didn't and microcosmic lead. They might've made sense macrocosmic lead. They made no sense. And you know, the hardest thing is you, when you think about focusing, right?

You think, well, focusing is the saying yes, no focusing is about saying no. Hmm. I think, I think that is enough for us, like focusing and saying, Oh, I think we can, uh, we can just take that advice and, uh, and run with it. Oh my gosh. Like saying no is such a liberating thing. And I think a lot of companies find themselves in trouble for trying to do too much.

And I would say this is. A parallel to what we see in products trying to do too much, right. That, and paradoxically, it's kind of antithetical to this idea of entrepreneurship and innovation and ingenuity. But I think this is, this is how. This is how Steve kind of bridles his genius is in this focus of saying no.

And because I'm sure he had so many more ideas yeah. Than what we've actually seen. Turn into products and services. Yeah. So it's actually by putting that filter damper on it, that we're actually able to get the things that we've seen. I mean, I need to take this advice like this. The focus is saying no, I think is something that all of us that are.

Right. Or starting our companies building our products. Yeah. It's just, um, we don't do it enough. Exactly. And you remember that we were talking about, uh, do you remember, I was telling you the story of the peanut butter manifesto at Yahoo and how they had spread themselves, you know, to. Too wide that there wasn't enough peanut butter to cover the whole sandwich.

And there were weaknesses appearing and so forth. You know, I think this is really good. I mean, actually I, this whole idea of focus setting priorities is one thing. But it's reducing it down to just a few and doing them exceptionally well. And how many times do you see companies getting into businesses and you think, why are they doing that or products?

The new product comes out and it does all these other things at the sacrifice of the functionalities that they should have stuck to. And I mean, a case in point for me would be, if you take the Amazon Kindle, What a great example of just focus and saying no. If I look at the iPad, I think they have never, ever fallen off their focus of what a great consumption, uh, device with a light bit of input that is.

Has a real reason for being, and I can tell you, I was very skeptical when the iPad came out. I couldn't see the use case. And, uh, Chad right now, I use this thing every single day for work for personal use. And again, My, my thing here is they had this, they bet on the future, they had thought deeply about it.

And then once they had made their choices, boy, they kind of grasp onto them with an iron fist and don't let go. And I think that's very powerful for anyone building a product or building a company hold onto it. And, and don't be distracted because if there was ever a time in the world where there's distractions it's now, right?

Yeah. I think. It certainly kind of for the solo, uh, entrepreneurs and solo founders out there. I don't think you can have priorities. I think you have one priority. Oh yeah. That's what I'm taking away from this message from Steve. I mean, yeah. You know, when, when he's working at Apple, there were many different teams across many categories, you know, like the pro line of hardware and pro software and consumer software.

And so I think each of those business units probably only had one priority. So that's how Apple was able to do multiple products. But I think, you know, especially if you're a smaller team, You really just have to do one thing and that's it. Like, you can't even have multiple priorities, just like you've got to, you've got to do that one thing.

Otherwise you're not gonna, you're not going to be able to make the, the impact, uh, that you're seeking to make. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I would share a personal story here. I worked in a. At a company in San Francisco that had so much potential, but was just trying to do way too many things. And the lesson I took from that in my next company, and, and, and after that was acquired my new company, it's all about this.

The art of focusing and saying what's really matters right now and sticking to it. Uh, and not being distracted and it's so easy to get into adjacent businesses, almost half asleep and you wake up and go, Oh geez, we've got a business here, but geez. It's a bit distracting and we're not focused on the core business.

I think there's a lot, a lot to that. And do you know, what's really powerful, Chad is that, you know, as much as Steve is focused on Apple, he does cast these eye around the world and we have this hilarious clip coming up and it's actually Mike Parker. Who's the CEO of Nike and he's recounting this call.

That he got from Steve jobs. And if you want an example of Steve jobs, uh, uh, emphasizing to someone focus saying no, and you know, focusing on what really matters this next clip is perfect. So let's have a listen now to Nike CEO, Mike Parker recounting his conversation with Steve jobs, uh, and getting some timely advice.

You mentioned last night when we were having dinner, that when you first got the job as CEO, you got a call from Steve jobs and he offered you some advice. Well, he didn't call offer me advice, but we had worked together on a, uh, Nike, Apple collaboration called Nike. Plus we took what Apple knows what Nike knows and, you know, brought a new technology to the market.

Anyway, long story short, uh, he said, Hey, congratulations. It's great. You're going to do a great job. Uh, I said, well, do you have any advice? And he said, no, no, you're you're, you're great. And then there was a pause and he goes, well, I do have some advice. He goes, Nike makes some of the best product in the world.

I mean, product that you lust after. Absolutely beautiful stunning product. But you also make a lot of crap. We said, just get rid of the crappy stuff and focus on the good stuff. And then I expected a little pause and a laugh, but there was, there was a pause, but no laugh. Yeah. And he was absolutely right.

And in fact, that's one of been one of my major focal points in terms of my priorities as a. As a CEO, and even as a designer, when I was growing up with the company is to edit when we have so many ideas, Nike, as an idea factory. Yeah. Coming back to saying no. And again, I think Steve jobs is kind of the lead editor inside of Apple.

That, I mean, he even said in our last show that his, his main job is to, is to go and meet with teams. And I'm sure. Kind of look around the room, take all the ideas and pick the one idea. Yeah. The best idea in that group and say, focus on that. Do that with anything. It's hilarious. I think there's probably any one person in the world that can ring up this Nike CEO and say, dude, stop making the crap.

Just stick to the good stuff. And it's so funny pocket, like readily amuse. Yeah. Well, we kind of did it and it works. Now you find that just. Brilliant. Like this guy was fearless in many ways, wasn't he? Yeah, it was also, you can hear Steve jobs through Mike Parker, the way that Mike Parker tells a story.

Like those are Steve's words coming out of his mouth, the way he's talking about, you know, like you make some of the best product and the most beautiful, you know, well-designed product. But some of it is like, that's. Again, it's kind of the harsh critic, maybe the, a little rub, you the wrong way critic, you know, to some people, but like, yeah, that was definitely who he was and what he did.

And I think his greatest value too. The company was his ability, not only to edit himself, but to help others edit themselves. Yeah. And, and it all flows from this one place. Like it's pretty simple. And that is like, we, we love a product that is elegant and delights us, um, that helps us get jobs done. That surprises us.

It almost feels a little bit magical. And the thing we hate more than anything is getting home, unpacking the box, trying to make the thing work and realizing, you know, that feeling Chad. Oh my gosh. I think I've just bought a big piece of crap. This is just not going to work. Have you ever had that? I mean, it's just right.

Yeah. You definitely get what you pay for. And this idea of editing is I'm sure there are so many products that have gotten to the cusp of release to the public and were killed at the last minute inside of Apple because something didn't work. It wasn't right. The customer experience. Wasn't going to be perfect.

We have a sample. I have an example. Yeah. What's that? Um, well, do you remember the, the home pod, uh, came out half a year later, the Apple speaker because they couldn't get it right. And I'll tell you another one. There's one currently the Apple wireless charger. Which they actually showcased has never launched.

And I believe he showed that. I don't want to say it's a year ago. Uh, but they said it would re launch this year. Uh, they showed it last year. If I get it right, it's called air power or something. And I would love one because it's a wireless dock that does your, your iPhone X, your Apple watch your AirPods.

All of which products I own. And it would charge them all simultaneously at one time. And the rumor is that they can't get it to evenly distribute power to, to each of the three devices simultaneously. It was, uh, I'm looking here. It was announced September 27, uh, 17. And so we are coming up almost on a year and we ain't got nada and.

I think that's so true, do not release a half-baked product because you really only get one chance to do it. Right. And, and starting from a, from a fail almost is impossible to come back from. And, and I just love that Apple, um, hold themselves to that level because there's just so few companies that truly hold them selves to that.

That level, I think Dyson, the vacuum manufacturer is one. Can you think of any other companies that you've come across in life? Maybe Patagonia that just ship good product every single time. Yeah. I think know BMW comes to mind. That's a good one. Um, I think Belkin the accessories maker tends to get it right.

Most of the time. Don't they? Yeah. There's a few out there. Bows. I think is another, but think about it, Chad, where like they're going to get maybe to 10 or 12 companies, that's it in the universe that we can truly go. Yeah. They always ship good stuff. So well, and we've got a great clip from Steve, really kind of reinforcing, uh, what we've been talking here about really just getting the product right.

I tell you what our goal is. Our goal is to make the best personal computers in the world and to make products we are proud to sell and would recommend to our family and friends. And we want to do that at the lowest price as we can. But I have to tell you there's some stuff in our industry that we wouldn't be proud to ship, that we wouldn't be proud to recommend to our family and friends.

And we can't do it. We just can't ship junk. So there's, there are thresholds that we can't cross because of who we are. And what you'll find is our products are usually not premium priced. You go, you go and price out our competitors products, and you add the features that you have to add to make them useful.

And you'll find in some cases they are more expensive than our products. The difference is we don't offer stripped down lousy products, you know, We just don't offer categories of products like that. But if you move those aside and compare us with our competitors, uh, I think we compare pretty favorably and a lot of people have been doing that and saying that now for the last 18 months, Yeah, the way he, it sets that out for me is like, I want to make stuff that I can recommend to family and friends.

And it's, it's simple. But if we all thought about the things that we create, as things that they speak so much about us, so we should take enormous pride in them and have the self-discipline. Not to ship junk. And so many times you, you open an app and you're like, Oh my God. Gosh, did they not think about this functionality or you, you get back from the store and things are clunky and unthought through.

And what's really interesting is, you know, often Apple is, is criticized for being so expensive, but I think he makes a really good point. Once you sort of fix subpar products to actually behave and perform at a certain standard. The, the Apple product doesn't, doesn't look so bad in terms of affordability.

And I tell you the one thing, Chad, that goes for all my Apple products, especially iPads and Mac book pros is they last for ever? So I'm I'm yeah. I'm seven, seven years into my Mac book pro that I'm recording with you on here today. It's. I think tr you know, lasted three times longer than any of my previous computing products in my entire life.

And I've been using computers, you know, before I could walk. Yeah. That's it Epic seven years. I recently got, um, upgraded, um, and through work and, um, You know, it's a little bit better and it's, you know, the Mac book is like maybe two or three years on from my old one, but I even sometimes get on my old one and I'm really quite happy.

And I noticed a little bit of a difference, but nothing that significant. And when you think about what you and I create on our laptops for this show for our work. If you think about all the things that it performs and you amortize the three or $4,005,000, whatever it is, if you work it out on a per day basis, you're paying 50 cents a day or something ridiculously low like this, like it's really, I mean, could you imagine the ROI on the seven years of your Mac book pro I mean, that is like.

That is the gold standard for high quality products, hundreds of thousands of dollars from, from my, I think I paid $3,500 for this machine. Yeah. That is it's insane. I don't. Yeah, but I want to, I want to go back to this idea of w we have standards is what Steve jobs said. So how can we, as, as creators.

Mike, like, how do we go about setting a bar, you know, and how do we keep ourselves accountable to not shipping something that doesn't, you know, go above that threshold. This is a very interesting idea that I haven't thought of kind of literally in that way, but just kind of thinking about it now. It's like, you know, if I'm telling and sharing stories, I think the bar for me is that I need to see.

I need to see an emotional reaction and, and change or shift in, in the audience that I'm sharing the work with. Um, yeah. That's, it's not doing that. Yeah. Then it's not like it's not worth shipping. Um, what does that for you and I, and how would you go about setting that bar and kind of holding yourself accountable to that?

Because I think that that's the lesson I'm taking away from this don't, you know, we don't ship junk a clip from Steve, so. I I think about that in a, in a, in a interesting way. So I frame and I attempt to, and once again, I say this as a humble student of life who fails more than I succeed. I just try. The thing that makes me feel good is when I do something that has an aha in it for whoever is the recipient.

So if you know, earlier this evening, I was coaching doing some one-on-one skills coaching with a very good rugby player. And I was really mindful. Okay. Um, okay. This guy has pride, semi-professional rugby. And I have an obligation he's spending 90 minutes to train with me and to get my coaching. I need to give him something like, I feel an obligation to make it worth his while just like.

If I'm making this podcast, I got to find one thing for a listener. I gotta find one thing for you, Chad, that makes you go. Hmm, that's really cool. I hadn't thought of it like that. I feel like everything I do, every meeting that I have, I'm looking for, um, a gift for the person on the other side. For me, that's the standard and it's, it's not only on the, on the podcast, but.

I think that equally goes, I would even apply that to both my son and my wife. Every time we're doing something together, I want it to be enjoyable or meaningful or something that is a gift in it. Whether it's, you know, um, good advice for my son or just supporting my wife. As she renovates our house, it doesn't really matter to me.

That's standards. It's when you allow yourself mediocracy and say, geez, what did I actually contribute of ration? And when you kind of answer that question, that's when you're in trouble. Uh, so I think that this broadcast is like, look, if someone can listen to this and now 60 minutes, one of those minutes helps them.

Do a bit better today in the office. For me, that's a standard, that's a win. And maybe we can get that up to two aha moments or three or four, but at least one, I think that's the most practical. I think that's the most meaningful standard because you can just apply it to, yeah, you're really kind of touching on this idea that author Adam Grant writes about in his book.

Give and take. Yes, this idea is excellent. I'm absolutely of the same mindset that I think we are all as a society, better off with that giving mindset and being sure that we're providing value and insights. For others and know that, you know, it's going to come back around in some way, shape or form in the karmic universe.

Uh, but that that's, yeah, that's really the way, but I, I, the way I think we can all just try and say, can I do something in this conversation or this meeting or this moment, or in this activity? That really contributes, you know, people talk about creative value or impact, however you want to frame it. But for me, it's as simple as if someone has a business meeting with me or listens to a podcast or does rugby training with me, regardless of that format, whoever was in that with me, I do what I can.

I attempt to create some. Tangible value. Some aha. Some thing that takes them further that grows them. That develops them. That helps them. That gets them along the way to their mission. And as a standard then from, you know, it all is good in the world. If you just do it one time, every meeting. Even if you think about those interactions over a week, that could be like 10 good deeds in the week.

And you know, last time I checked this 52 weeks in the year, so that's sort of compounds, you know, really, really nicely. So I think it's just this idea of having a standards. Don't ship junk. Don't accept mediocracy. And you know, the PC world was full of mediocracy and Steve took it from this beige box of boring, cheap, and nasty to almost luxury products, things that are covered.

And by the way, your Mac book. Pro is seven years on the job with a phenomenal ROI. That to me is pretty much all you need to know about innovation. That's like I remember those old Dell PCs used to LA you remember in the late nineties, early two, then you would have like a wind 2000 machine very year, maybe 18 months.

And then the thing would just like. Just yeah, Mike, my, my high school college years were real rough. I think I always had at least two computers because one would always, always be acting up or breaking down, needing to be repaired. Both, you know, the ones that I built myself and also the ones, you know, I, yeah, I had some Dell Inspirons I had some H P laptops.

Yeah. Do you remember the days when you had to defrag the hard drive all the time? I was, I think I was reformatting my entire machine and reinstalling windows on about a monthly basis. Uh, it was, it was that, Oh my gosh. Uh, so Mike, we've done six clips on innovation and we have still some clips to come, maybe the best to come.

Chad. Um, honestly, yeah. What do you, what do you think about kind of doing a little bit of a lightning round? Where we play these clips and kind of just choose our one favorite part of the clip and, and how we, uh, w w w. Well, how are we going to take this inspiration from and maybe apply? Cause we've got some great clips, but you know, we could probably punt in and do even yet a third show, as you said on Steve, but I really want to, I really want to do the goods here and this is probably really good advice for us.

Chad because we got some big ones. We've got Larry Ellison, the founder of article coming in with some thoughts. We've got Steve himself and is very, it's very much on the philosophies in how he, how he approached life. Not just work, but how he approached life. I just want to mention here, look. Obviously this, this idea of having courage to bet on the future to think deeply about that and to just be resilient and focusing on what really matters was absolutely the theme of how they build these amazing products at both Apple.

No. And saying, Oh yeah. All about that with a big capital. And, um, so that, that sets us up. Okay. We got the product, we know how from the last show, the business strategy and the history what's truly remarkable about Steve is these next four clips, because the way in which he had thought about the world and saw the world.

There's some really big stuff coming and, and you were very lucky. You, you actually got hold of some of the, his most powerful speeches ever, and you've handpicked one or two. So do you want to set this up and roll it? Yeah. He gave a commencement speech to Stanford in 2005. I believe it was. And, you know, kind of his famous, uh, some of his most famous words are from that, but it it's, it's, it's a great speech.

He tells just really three simple stories. And this story is kind of his time at Reed college and how that experience, you know, he was a dropout and what not, but eventually, you know, things worked out for him and, uh, and well here I'll just let him tell the story and much of what I stumbled into by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to be priceless later on.

Let me give you one example, Reed college at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction in the country throughout the campus. Every poster, every label on every drawer was beautifully hand calligraphed because I had dropped out and didn't have to take the normal classes. I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this.

I learned about Serafin Sans, serif, typefaces about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations. About what makes great typography great. It was beautiful. Historical artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture. And I found it fascinating. None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life.

But 10 years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me and we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts.

And since windows just copied the Mac, it's likely that no personal computer would have them. I had never dropped out. I would have never dropped in on that calligraphy class and personal computers might not have the wonderful typography that they do. Of course it was impossible to connect the dots.

Looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards. 10 years later, again, you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something, your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever, because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well-worn path.

And that will make all the difference. Hmm, curiosity. Uh Jay's I, I, Connie, you don't even get me started on that one. I believe that curiosity is. The passport to thinking differently. Uh, that's what I take from this. And, um, you know, life's experiences that you get from that curiosity can just come back in the most unexpected and delightful ways.

And, well, I mean, talk about. Uh, you know, a tip of the hat to the well-rounded Renaissance, man. I mean, this is, this is just brilliant. Don't you think? Yeah. I think this is kind of a precursor to this idea. That's become popular more recently of deliberate practice, Steve saying here, you know, follow your curiosity and go deep into your passions and trust that yeah.

That. Exposure and experience will come together in the end. And yet there's like a little bit of blind faith in that too, you know, he's like you can't connect the dots looking forward, you just have to trust, they all connect looking backwards. Um, yeah, that's, that's really what I'm taking away here. Uh, yes.

You know, in, in the ways that your passion for rugby and coaching and mentoring, I'm sure and informs the way you. Uh, lead and manage inside your company and work with clients like, you know, it's all, it's all related. Um, we just kind of have to trust them, you know, for really going deep in, in what we love and being open to applying it to our business, um, that, that it's all gonna work out.

Yeah. Well, you did that when you pivoted and switched your, uh, your college degree and totally when I was hardcore math and science for so many years. Yeah. Until I was going to be a filmmaker. And then, um, yeah, I've been a storyteller ever since. Yeah. And you don't get to where you are now. If you don't put in a little bit of elbow grease.

Yes. There's the curiosity, but it takes hard work as well. Don't you think? I think that, you know, you've got to just throw yourself at it and, um, actually, you know, it's so funny that, uh, the founder of Oracle Larry Ellison was actually. The neighbor of Steve jobs in Silicon Valley. And he has these thoughts that he's going to share with us in this next clip, which is all about that hard work.

Uh, that was so signature to Steve jobs. This comment, you know, it's 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Steve was a God of perspiration. I mean, speed worked incredibly hard. It wasn't just his intellectual gifts, which were enormous, but how he took that horsepower and applied it tirelessly until the entire problem was solved.

I've never seen anyone like that, but was there something different about his ability to focus or. W was that this control freak thing or what? Well, I'll tell you, let's talk a little bit about Pixar. You know, Steve is my best friend for about 25 years. I think we knew him for about the same, the same, like the time and very interesting how we met.

We were neighbors in Woodside and his peacock wandered onto my property and woke me up. Not the way to start a relationship. His girlfriend had given him a peacock and I came over to complain about the peacock said you don't like that bird either. It's not that he just put in the hour. If he had to stay up all night, night after night, every night I would get, he would call me up as hilarious.

Let's get together. We saw each other a lot. You come over to my house, I'd go over to his house. I says, I'm not coming over. If you make me watch toy story again, I've watched 73 different versions of toy story. Now I know the new version of render man is 4% better than the one I saw last week, but I'm not watching this thing again.

So Larry, you got to see, you won't believe the shad, the different, the shadows look, but that was Steve until it was perfect. Hmm, that's really funny. I had no idea that Larry Ellison was kind of a test audience for toy story. Uh, well, with the peacock stories, I mean, do you know anyone that owns a bake-off coming?

What is this? I grew up next to a park that had peacocks. I'm very familiar with the, uh, the annoying calls of peacocks. Uh, yeah, I was about to say don't they make incredibly annoying sounds. Oh downtown time. Um, but, but you know, you know, this clip does one thing though, while you're reminiscing on pay cards.

Uh, let me just jump in here for a second. Say hard work, hard work, hard work. Um, we've had this big theme on the show where people think everything is like Instagram or WhatsApp. It's like two years and you make a couple of billion. Um, baby, almost every single person has talked about years. If not, decades of hard work before real success comes.

And what's so great. Is that Steve? Yes, he was smart, but he was prepared to work hard and right to the end. Get it right. Don't ship junk ship perfection. And I love that Larry called this out. Don't you like the perspiration, you know, up, up applying the genius of Steve jobs. I think that is kind of an assured way to success.

Like yes, you can be in the right place at the right time. Like the people building Instagram and the people building WhatsApp, like did like. They were in the right place at the right time. You know, that, that, that, yes, they worked hard and they, and they built good or interesting product. But I would argue that they're even much better and more useful to today then than they were kind of, you know, when they had their big, their big acquisitions.

Yeah. But yes, what Steve did is like, he's kind of guaranteeing the success by just working harder at it than everyone else, because here's the truth. Chad, most people don't work hard and then you compile that they don't work on things that they love. They don't work hard. And before, you know, it don't work focused.

Yeah, exactly. I do want, I know this is meant to be a lightening round, but let me divert for one second. This reminds me of, do you remember, you know, the meme that goes around about once a year about here are the 10 things that don't require talent. Right. And so I do want to just introduce this though.

Cause I know Steve jobs had a brilliant mind, but it, there was so much about just focusing hard work here. And this is, this is like, People who, when do these things like, and this is the famous mean 10 things that don't require talent, but will guarantee success being on time, work ethic, effort, body, language, energy, attitude, passion, being coachable, doing extra, being prepared.

If you do these things, it is so much so much of what success is about. So don't be mistaken for a moment. If you're listening to show thinking, Oh, you just have to be some. Talismanic person like Steve jobs, hard work focus, make some choices and run with it. I mean, these are the themes that are coming back.

It's not just be brilliant. Is it? It's funny that list that you read off, it sounded kind of like my experience in the boy Scouts of America. I was like, Oh yeah, the, the motto there. I would tell you, this is, uh, I could take this and apply it to the office, to the rugby field. You name it to Scouts. It's.

It's like go to Del Connie, Peggy, and he's great books. If you look at most, uh, self-help self-improvement books though. Cover themes like this. Yeah. And I think the personal anecdote, anecdote genus of this clip is really telling because here's two founders of billion dollar companies that when they get together, Steve's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Like, I really want to show you the latest cut of this movie that we've been working on for seven years. And Larry's like, Steve. Just like, can't we just like have a drink together or can we just get a good meal or something? You know, it's just like, that's all I wanted to do is just show him the latest cut because he was that obsessed with making it the best that it could be.

Yeah, but you know, the, the, the other thing that comes back time and time again on our show is, you know, having courage and being relentless, putting yourself out there. You know, I think about the choice that Branson made to go and get a chalkboard and walk around saying 25 quid return flight to this Island.

When, when the BA flight was canceled. You know, you have to not only have leaps of faith, but you just have to jump into the unknown. And this next clip from Steve is all about, you know, what most people don't do is they don't take these leaps of faith because they're scared of what will happen. And this is his advice to people who face that moment.

No, I've actually always found something to be very true, which is, um, Most people don't get those experiences. Cause they'd never asked, uh, I've never found anybody that didn't want to help me. If I asked them for help, I always call him up. I called up, um, this'll date me, but I called up bill Hewlett when I was 12 years old.

And he lived in Palo Alto. His number was still in the phone book and he answered the phone himself did not. Yes. I said, hi, I'm Steve jobs. I'm 12 years old. I w I'm a student in high school and I want to build a frequency counter. And I was wondering if you had any spare parts I could have and he laughed and he gave me the spare parts to build this frequency counter.

And he gave me a job that summer in Hewlett Packard, working on the assembly line, putting nuts and bolts together on frequency counters. He got me a job in the place that built them and I was in heaven and I've never been found anyone who said no, or hung up the phone. When I call, I just asked. And when people ask me, I try to be as responsive, you know, to pay that.

That debt of gratitude back. Um, most people never pick up the phone and call. Most people never ask. And that's what separates. Sometimes the people that do things from the people that just dream about them, you gotta, you gotta act and you've gotta be, uh, willing to, um, fail. You've gotta be willing to crash and burn, you know, with people on the phone with starting a company, with whatever, if you're afraid of failing, you won't get very far.

Ouch. That one, that one kind of hits me personally. Just kind of where I'm at right now in my business. Cause I can, I can, I can feel you get that physical sensation of, Oh, I don't want to do it. I don't want to do that. I don't want to make that call. I don't want to send that email. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to approach that client or prospect.

Yeah. I'd take it to heart here today. Yeah, well, that's, that's the power of the advice, isn't it? Don't just, don't be afraid. And you know, you will remember when we talked about risk in our live Booker show, um, our guests, anyone Yaka was just saying, you know, risk is not what you think it is. And you know, there's those devices.

You remember those devices, he gave us on how he's not afraid to fail. He's like, well, what's the risk really? I mean, what's the worst case could happen here. And. The fact that you're alive now means you've taken risks before and survive. So what you know, what's to lose. Yeah. I will tell you, I will tell you that, that, um, I have found when you have that feeling, the quicker you.

Jump into action and get over it. The better. When I was 17, I rang the, one of the best radio stations in the city and said, I'll come and intern every school, holidays and work for free. And they were like, really? Yep. And do you know what all everyone said to me when I was 17? I can't believe you're 17 and you're working on like the coolest radio station in town and no one had rung up.

And asked, you know, when, when I, when I look back in life, there are these moments where you're just like, go for it, just go for it. You'll be alive after whether it works or not. But there's this, this, this thought, which is like, Like the weight of regret is 10 times that of failure. And I've always found that out.

Very powerful thought. Yeah. It's, it's, it's so funny. And like, Steve's inspiring me to kind of revisit this book. I read quite some time ago called the five second rule where kind of a way to overcome this. It's it's you don't need to read the book. It, this is the book here is just when you're faced with that, that feeling of, Ooh, I don't want to do that.

Or I'm afraid. You just count down from five, four, three. Two one, and you say, go out loud. You don't have to count out loud, but you say, go out loud and then you just do it, whatever that thing is, they didn't want to do. And it kind of, you know, hacks your brain to, just to just, yeah. To just do it. Oh yeah.

And, and, um, I have found in my life that when I've had this feeling, sheesh, I really got to do that thing. I now have enough failures when I've had that feeling and not acting on it that I can't have that feeling anymore. Cause I'm like, Oh, premonition. I know it's going to get so much worse if I don't do this.

So being afraid to fail, you know, jumping off and making those calls, doing those things or just doing hard things, you know, things that were like, Oh, I don't really want to do that. Just like, remember what happens when you, you know, When you defer, it just always comes back to get you, doesn't it? Yeah. And speaking of failures, like how about getting kicked out of the company that you founded?

Uh, Oh, I mean, that's the thing here, right? Yeah. He got, he, he got booted out of Apple and had 10 year sabbatical, I think is the best way to call us an exile in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What a, what a dramatic story. I mean, talk about the hero's journey. I mean, this is right up there. Isn't it?

Yeah. Going back to, Steve's a commencement speech here with this last and final clip. He frames it as one of the best things that happen to him. This kind of builds on his, his clip of, you know, you can only connect the dots going backwards. So of course, he's going to say that because he had this kind of triumphant return and, and turn around of Apple afterwards, but he really leaned into the freedom that he had after getting fired from Apple.

And so here's T here's here's Steve talking about. Taking that freedom and not settling, uh, even after arguably the worst thing in his career that ever happened had, had, had just taken place. How can you, you get fired from a company you started well, as Apple grew, we hired someone who I thought was very talented to run the company with me and for the first year or so things went well.

But then our visions of the future began to diverge. And eventually we had a falling out when we did our board of directors sided with him. And so at 30, I was out and very publicly out I'd been rejected, but I was still in love. And so I decided to start over. I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could've ever happened to me.

The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner. Again, less sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods of my life. During the next five years, I started a company named next, another company named Pixar and fell in love with an amazing woman who would become my wife.

Pixar went on to create the world's first computer animated feature, film toy story, and is now the most successful animation studio in the world in a remarkable we'll turn of events, Apple bought next, and I returned to Apple and the technology we developed at next is at the heart of Apple's current Renaissance.

And Laurene and I have a wonderful family together. I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened. If I hadn't been fired from Apple, it was awful tasting medicine, but I guess the patient needed it sometime life. Sometimes life's going to hit you in the head with a brick, don't lose faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did.

You've got to find what you love, and that is as true for work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life. And the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven't found it yet, keep looking and don't settle as with all matters of the heart.

You'll know when you find it and like any great relationship, it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking. Don't settle.

Steve jobs, bringing it in for the commencement speech. I mean, pretty wise old reflections and you know, pretty humble really, when you think of how the likes of, you know, Ilan and, uh, what's the T-Mobile CEO, all these guys were running around. Nobody comes close to the impact of Steve, but. I thought that was pretty candid and, and some powerful reflections, like don't settle for.

Okay. In life, don't settle for stuff. That's. Just more like, go for it, follow your dreams. And, and, and Chad, I, the way I process this is live, the life that you dream of live the life that you sit there, dreaming on the bus, on the train, in the car, or walking to work. If you're dreaming of a way life should be.

I would just encourage everyone to do. Everything in their power to make that a reality and not just a dream. Yeah. I kind of take maybe a little more stoic view on it and kind of living each day as if it were my last I some sometimes I'm good at that. And some in, sometimes I not I'm, I'm not. Um, but as my business has transformed over the last 10 years, I think it is very much, uh, a gradual discovery and, uh, reinvestment into the parts of the business that I really love the activities that I love, the clients that I love, the creative partners that I love, you know, which includes you, Mike B Rebecca.

It's a. Yeah, it's in an, in a way too. It's kind of like that focusing, you know, it's like, Hey, say no to the things that you don't love, do the things that you do love and, you know, you might make a, you might make a good run of it. And that that's, that's what this last clip. From Steve is, is, is what's so remarkable.

Chad is, this is the guy who pulled off killer strategies for the Pixar IPO. This is the guy that knows when to partner, instead of bill who sees the market, who loves companies to be run by ideas. This is a guy who rings up the Nike CEO and says, dude, stop making the crap stuff. Um, this is quite remarkable.

I mean, we filled two shows and we still have 50 minutes here and we've got stuff that we couldn't get into this show. I mean, it's just, I encourage everyone to go back to moonshots.io and keep re keep revising, revisiting, and looking through these insights to work out. Which ones work for you. And as you're doing that, the good news is we've got.

Two more Apple episodes coming up. Chad, what do you think? I think it's about time that we look at, uh, next week. I think we need to look at Mr. Tim cook, the current CEO of Apple. Who's overseeing some of the greatest profits in American corporate history, easy Amelie and operator, or is he an innovator? I don't know, we'll have to wait for the next episode to find out.

Exactly, exactly. And I think, um, to bring this altogether as a little, a taster of what's to come, I think we're going to pull together a couple of thoughts from each of our Apple executives. So. You know, we've, as we mentioned that, Jonathan. Yeah, Angela Ahrendts Steve Wozniak, the Steve jobs team. We're gonna kind of create a, an ensemble, the best of Apple as a sort of innovative toolkit for, for the, for the episode after Tim cook.

So there's. Plenty of good stuff coming down the pipe, uh, for all our listeners and, um, or I do want to, I do, I think we should mention this. I think we are, are you still up for doing, uh, after our Apple series, the hot or not innovators show where we make the showdown? Uh, Chad is still up for that. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm still got things like biggest innovation failures and kind of some innovation writers. Yeah. We've got some great series plans coming up. And we'll, we'll have some, uh, some more guests that I'm working on to join the show and for the hot or not show, we got Tesla. Facebook Twitter. We work in Microsoft are going to come under the microscope.

In your mind, Chad Tesla, Facebook, Twitter, we work Microsoft. Has there been any movements that you're seeing that might swear you on the hot or not side of things? Oh, I don't know. I I'm kind of in, um, tech. Hype fatigue here. Okay. We have to put like crypto or Bitcoin or something on that list too. That's a good one.

That's a good one whole episode in and of itself, or that might be too controversial. Well, I would say it is. So I think, uh, Facebook, uh, have got themselves out of a little bit of hot water that they were in at the beginning of the year. However, I'm not so sure a good at bounce. Uh, we work in Tesla, I think some pretty big question marks, maybe even storm clouds above those two names.

They're making big bets. You know, whether they're there or not kind of remains to be seen. True. Indeed. There's so much to come. The next show, obviously, Tim cook, lots to go into there and he's, you know what I mean? Wow. There's so much to get into with that we've learned so much from Steve jobs. What would you like all of our listeners to do as we go on this journey together, Chad, what's your call to action to them?

Say no to the things that you don't love. I think that's a great way to end the show. So there you have the wisdom in the last two shows from Mr. Steve jobs, founder of Apple, Inc, and CEO of Pixar, and just general legend. So much inspiration, so much wisdom. Chad, I want to thank you. It's been. A Cracker of a show and you sound very perky when we do the call in your morning.

So we might stay here for Berkey. Chad, what do you reckon? Yeah, well, you know, I reserve my mornings for all of my creative activities. Um, I can feel that, so yeah, we may have to, uh, May have to work or on the, on the schedule here. Okay. I can do the late night shift. That's no problem. That's no problem. It will be better when I have my studio in my house, uh, which is being renovated at the moment.

But for now I am the sole inhabitant of the office. So, uh, I got the run of the place so I can. Do all sorts of crazy stuff, uh, here at the office, but thank you again. Uh, this was really fun to do, to do, uh, Steve jobs. I learned a ton and I'm so curious to what we're going to find next week when we dive into the world of Tim cook, the last of our Apple executives.

And thank you listeners for sticking with us for two shows, which. Could probably have been stressed to for, uh, you know, Mike and I w you know, we've given you a little sneak peek into what we're thinking about. As far as next shows, you can always go to moonshots.io and find our, our latest list of past episodes.

And we've even got a, you know, a preview list of, of shows to come. We're always looking for your feedback, innovators and companies that you would like us to dive into research in and profile here on the show. And we love your feedback and ratings. On iTunes can find all that@moonshots.io. Great. Well, thank you, Chad.

Thank you to all our listeners. That's the end of the Steve jobs series and we wish you well on your sunrises or your sundowns. Uh, thanks again. And that's a wrap from the moonshot podcast