angela ahrendts
episode 33
The Moonshots Podcast kicks off the much expected Apple Inc series. We start with the newest addition to the leadership team, the head of Retail - Angela Ahrendts.
Join us for a journey into positive energy and the art of listening. Furthermore, you'll discover the secret recipe used by Apple to create the best performing shops on the planet.
show outline
ANGELA INTRO
Angela Intro Pt 1
Angela Intro - Successor to Tim Cook?
A-BLOCK
Apple Town Square
Apple Store Employees - Don’t Sell Enrich Lives
A Vision for Apple retail
B-BLOCK
Innovate or Die from Burberry
How Angela Rewrote Job Description Even Before Taking Job
Listen
Creating a Cohort
The Importance of Energy from TEDx talk
TRANSCRIPT
Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode 33. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined by the man with him plan from Brooklyn, New York, Mr. Chad, and hello, Brooklyn. Good evening. Bucharest. I hear you're on the other side of the world this week. Yes, I am, uh, traveling the, uh, fair continent of Europe.
I'm enjoying summer whilst back at home in Sydney. It's all a little bit wintery. Um, but there is plenty, plenty of sunshine ahead for us, Chad. I am, uh, looking forward to this show so much because we're back to back. Amazing women who have innovated who've been fabulous entrepreneurs and were deep into, can you believe this?
Our second year of the show? Chad, did you bring the champagne? I did not. I'll uh, I'll have a beer though. There you go. There you go. Um, but I tell you what she is a fabulous, uh, entrepreneur. She's done poor. What an action packed CV does she have, but she's also kicking off a very special series of three shows ahead.
What is installed? Not only in this show, but for the next three years was Chad. Yeah. So we are jumping into the world of Apple, all things, Apple. And first up, uh, you've been, you've been teasing her. Uh, we're going to hear from Angela Ahrens. Who's a former CEO of Burberry and is now currently the senior vice president of retail for Apple.
Uh, and she's been there for what about three years now, Mike? Yes. And, uh, Tim cook, CEO of Apple famously said she's wicked smart. And I think that's for sure. I mean, she did an amazing job at Burberry, uh, the English fashion brand. She turned that around when it was in tough times. Um, but isn't it amazing.
I mean, this woman, she is continuously ranked as one of the top business women in the world. By fortune by Forbes, by the BBC. Um, but what's crazy is that she pivoted from being the CEO of berberi to take a vice senior vice president job, admittedly. Yes, it's at Apple, but that doesn't happen a lot, particularly for very successful well-known entrepreneurs, such as Angela.
I can you recall a single person who has stepped. Back in a mid point of their career from being CEO to kind of go to a senior VP job that, that can't run. I can't think of it. Yeah. I'm not really sure. It's, it's usually the other way around making the move from SVP to CEO. Like Marissa Mayer did that when she, when she stepped up in the CEO role at, at Yahoo, but yeah, going the other way.
I'm not sure. How many times I've seen that, but, you know, I'm sure it's probably happened at the largest companies in the world. So I'm sure it's probably happened once or twice at Microsoft and Google and Facebook, but, um, it's quite rare. It is super rare and it speaks to the uniqueness of Angela and, uh, I think of Apple and I think it's really.
Uh, are there is so much in this show, uh, for our listeners w number one, we are going to do a massive deep dive into the world of retail at Apple. And you think to yourself, you might be asking like, what does that even matter? Here's the truth. Apple sell more stuff per square foot. Then any other company in the planet.
And, and just to give you a sense, the average store in America would sell per square foot about 200, sorry. About $2,400 worth of goods. Now, this is a very classic retail measure to understand like how well your, and how effective your retailers Apple comes in at a whopping five and a half thousand dollars worth of sales per square foot.
And just to, just to tell you that, like, there are retailers like great granddaddy retailers coming in at. 2,900 for Tiffany. Um, Murphy USA comes in at 3,700. My point is this, they outperform the industry massively, and you have to remember that just 10, 15 years ago, they didn't even have stores. So there is some special thing happening at Apple and it would lead you to think if you're the CEO of Burberry.
And Apple already have a great retail operation. Why would you take that job? I mean, it would almost have made more sense chat if retail was terrible at Apple and they said, come save us, but it was the opposite. So this is such a unique situation to learn from someone who's achieved so much success, but is prepared to almost go back to school again, learn a whole new industry.
I think it's a fascinating story for us to learn not only how Apple retail works, but also how someone builds a career like this and just the wisdom that they have to share. I mean, I'm, I'm, this is great. And this is like two great female entrepreneurs back to back, which we, I'm not sure we've done on the show either.
No, no. And you know, we've got some great inter clips that we'll get to in just a second, but, um, In the second half of the show, we're going to kind of look underneath the hood, so to speak and see, you know, kind of some of the mental models and, and, and mindsets that Angela has. I think that kind of underpin, you know, what the strategies she's implemented at Apple and at Burberry before then, and kind of the why she's been successful.
So we've got this great. Back and forth between, you know, the success of, of Apple's retail and then kind of looking at potentially, you know, how she was able to do that. But first we'll just, uh, get into some general intro clips for maybe those listeners that aren't quite as familiar with the trajectory of her, uh, storied career.
Angela Aarons is the former, our CEO of berberi. She was an incredibly successful executive. And in 2014, she did something really unusual. She left her job in the corner office to go to work, not as the CEO, but as the head of the retail group at Apple. And a lot of people have been wondering, what does Apple need from her?
Apple has. The most profitable retail stores on the planet already. And by the way, they decided to pay Angela $80 million in cash and stock in her first year, which means they'd be valued, something. Her predecessor, John brow, it lasted for five months in the job and basically had Oregon rejection. Tim cook said that he was not a cultural fit.
He was a good guy, but he jumped in and started doing a lot of things, including, um, Trying to cut and organize the hours of, of Recho employees differently. And everybody rebelled. Angela didn't do anything at first, but visit stores. She did kind of this Hillary Clinton listening to her and when she went and she talked to everybody, she's this incredibly warm, nice, authentic person who people respond to.
I mean, this is a place that under Steve jobs. It's you know, had a cult of personality around one person. Apple now has 60% of its employees working in the retail stores. Angela Aarons. His perspective is if the story employees aren't at their best, then your experience with the product and with Apple, won't be at its best.
The other major thing that Angela Aarons has done at Apple is she has integrated the retail stores with the online store. She had ed Burberry brought digital technology into the stores. And really thought about the customer and as a one thing, as opposed to an online customer or a retail customer, she has a lot to do, making a great company greater.
It's really hard. And I think she's, she will really have a lot to do to get Apple to yet another level and to maintain its advantage over everyone else. Yeah. So one thing that just jumps out at me, Chad, is she really brought instant value to Apple. When she said, look, if you want me, you basically got to put traditional retail stores and, uh, Digital commerce together, which they actually did.
And that already kind of gives you a little bit of a sense of her vision for a unified customer experience, let alone all of the brand building that she can bring. I just think what a fabulous story, you know, she grew up in Indiana. Made her way to running Donna. Qur'an off to Burberry now at Apple. And I'm sure there's lots more to come in the Angela iron's story, but wow, man, like, this is a great story.
I mean, if anyone who is a student, who's listening to our show and I know we have students who are listening, I mean, just pay attention, learn and take some notes because Angela is the teaching. Chad. Yeah. The two things that stuck out. For me in that clip was one, they paid her $80 million in her first year and two, she just went on a listening tour, which I find fascinating.
And it was interesting how they kind of contrasted her to her predecessor and that, you know, they tried to implement this kind of company-wide change with scheduling and whatnot, and essentially the employees rebelled and rejected, rejected him. I think it was such a smart response by her to do that.
You know, she, she saw that and it was like, how can I do the opposite of that? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I think that's, that was the beginning of her successful run thus far at Apple, but we've got another interesting clip here. Cause you, aside from the $80 million, you may still be wondering why is she decided to leave her CEO position?
Um, and so here's some interesting commentary, you know, from Scott Galloway, one of our favorite kind of commentators, uh, can speculating on why that, that might've been, why is the Angela Aaron's story so big and does her leaving Burberry make her the likely successor to Tim cook? Yeah. Well, the story behind the story is that she's been told she's is the success or the board calling Angela Aarons, a CEO who made $26 million last year and said, come be in charge of our retail operation.
That's a big thud. That's a non-starter. So, you know, there was something else. And when people are the conjecture, is that she's been offered the successor spot. I think it's actually bigger than that. I think what they've told her is that in the next few years, Apple is going to be the world's dominant luxury fashion brand.
And they want her to spearhead those efforts. I think this is a big signal around a pivot or a compliment, an Apple strategy, literally an offer too. Good to refuse. I think this is an exciting time to be Apple. It look at what's going on. This is the best brand in the world, and it trades at a multiple of eight times EBITDA because it's in what is largely a hit-driven business Burberry trades at 12 Michael Kors trades at 18 X.
And it goes from that from there. If you start looking at Richmont Richmont and some of these other brands. I have lunch with a guy named Michael Laszlo today, the CMO of marketing cloud at Salesforce. And he described Apple perfectly. He said that it's the equivalent of a modern day movie producer, and that it's a hit driven business.
And if the movie flops, the whole company falls under a cloud luxury is a far superior business. When people are making tech purchases, they're doing a product functionality trade off. When they're looking at luxury, they're looking at brand and Apple has the best brand in the world right now. Uh, man, there is so much in that, Chad.
Oh my gosh. I cannot tell you as a guy who's worked on Madison Avenue for many years and who has played in the product world for a bunch is very, he is so spot on there, like. Come on to re-imagine yourself. As a luxury company would transform the valuation of market capitalization. Don't fight, you know, on the, on the same terms as everyone else create a fashion brand and just watch Samsung go out there and acquire all these low value customers.
I mean, already the iPhone. Makes massive amounts of profit way more than all of the Samsung who sell 10 X more devices, but the margins are so incredibly high for Apple that they actually still make more gross profit than Samsung Downing's in, in mobile phones. So imagine what happens when Angela gets to hands on, on the entire business.
I think it's very, very exciting and it makes total total sense in the long run. I mean, when you hear about. What she could have installed for herself and running app, or what comes to your mind, Chad? Like what possibilities do you see? Well, I, I don't want to, I don't want to speculate into the future just yet, because I think she has transformed at least the retail experience into a luxury experience in the past four years, like Apple was on its way for sure.
I think the subtleties of putting an iPhone or iPod touch in all of the Apple employees hands so that there are no cash registers. There is no cash, um, that I just walk in and pick something up and can walk out just that experience and flow that she has has spearheaded has turned the retail experience into a luxury experience.
I think. The PR the products, some of them are, have that luxury field and some of them have tried it and maybe not been as successful as, as they had wanted. You know, I feel like they maybe missed the Mark just a little bit with the Apple watch. Um, in terms of that being kind of, you know, the luxury fashion.
Thing for them. I mean, it's been successful compared to other, uh, smartwatches, but, you know, they're, you know, maybe not as successful as they had hoped. Yeah. I mean, you make a great point because whilst they were already doing great, the last 12 to 18 months, we've got a number of clips coming up now that speak to the things that she has introduced and you're right.
She was so smart to go on that, listening to her. And now we're seeing the things that she's deploying. And I believe that. The San Francisco and Chicago stores are the first stores in the U S to be the benchmarks for their new retail strategy. And we have so many insights into how they did it. But what I think what you alluded to was the, the absence of friction.
And I know I've been in Apple stores around the world and they continue to do. The job really well. I had a problems with my iPad keyboard and popped in before a meeting. They gave me a booking. Did my meeting, came back after my meeting, replaced it for free and off I went. I mean, it was just that easy.
And how many retail experiences and particularly service experiences are just not like that. So I kind of exactly right. It's you know, that feeling when you have to call your classic wines, you have to call your healthcare provider or your insurance company or your telecommunications provider. And you're just like, Oh my gosh, this is going to be the worst.
You just don't have that feeling with Apple. So what is really exciting is to imagine a world where if that's already the baseline. Of where Apple are. We've now got a ton of things that speak to what they're going to put on top of that. And this just like really lights my imagination on fire about what they could be bringing over the next couple of years.
And there is this, um, this, this central idea that we're going to hear in a second and, and, you know, really. Tune into this one guys, because this clip that we're about to play is that the heart of the, the retail strategy and the beauty of it is sort of a little bit counterintuitive for what you might expect in traditional retail.
Yet it's purely pure brilliance on like positioning them for the longterm, not only as a luxury brand, but as sort of a centerpiece into how people connect come together and to learn. So let's have a listen now to Angela iron's and the core of the future of retail at Apple. So our whole concept was how does the store become more like a town square again, where the best of Apple comes together, everybody's invited and it becomes almost a community hub.
Does this change the way you hire people for the stores? Um, it changes. We did actually change the structure to go along with the new store design. So we talk about the store being the biggest product that we produce now. And we launched five new features in that, in that product. And the accessories now are called the avenues because there's typically little shops that go around a town square.
There's a huge, um, High res digital screen, um, that we call the forum that you can seat 75 in front of. So the vision was, um, I love the street sign that, that Steve used to put up at keynotes. Um, that Apple was the intersection between liberal arts and technology. It just always resonated being a 50, 50 right-brain left-brain kind of person.
And so. So, you know, our genius hasn't been so revered for repairing your product. Um, but how did we, we needed to counter balance that liberal arts. So in order to now service music and gaming on the app store, it's art and creativity. We've actually created a whole nother group. And if those are called creatives and we have a creative proposition that will now rival that genius position, but that creative pro will teach you how to be a better photographer.
So, you know, you come in, they will demo that product for you, sign you up for a photo. Walk, tell you when Visco is coming in to the forum, you know, to show what's new on their app, build that creative probe that handles photography will do all they can. If that's your passion to make you the best you can be at it.
The Apple store as, as a town square is a fascinating idea to me and she even a little further into this clip. I think it's not the Apple store. It's Apple Soma, Apple, winter park, Apple Madison Avenue, and kind of literally calling it, you know, like a, like a tie, like a square in the middle of a town. And I think the strategies she's laying out.
We're just beginning to see in the new retail stores. And it does make a huge difference in the way you experience the stores. I totally agree. And I'm looking at the footage and photography of the stores. It's another huge leap for them. I mean, a completely different to what you're going to get anywhere else.
I mean, it's can take markers, have you used a copy of this store? The, the, the truth in this though, is it's also a great learning for us here that traditional retail is moving away from the idea of selling things and moving towards creating experiences, because let's face it when you're competing with.
The speed and ease and affordability of Amazon. You've got to do something more than just having, you know, Isles of product. You've got to layer up, you've got to help solve problems. You've got to go beyond just selling stuff. And a lot of retailers are struggling with this malls are in huge decline in the U S and it's going to come to Europe and Asia soon, too.
But. Moles are in decline because retail has got lazy. And we're just about shifting boxes. And actually what Apple is already doing is well beyond that. And everyone would, would do very well just to observe, listen, and learn from what. Apple is doing there, but I think that the, the town square is like the underlying idea for this whole next chapter in retail at Apple.
But what's super cool is, you know, sure. This store can be nice, but I think you got to have something more than just a nice store. Now this next clip really sets up. The role that Angela sees the vision that she has for the way her employees, uh, should go about doing their job and have a listen to this.
As she explains her vision for what Apple store employees can be in the world, towards their customers, their mission or vision is not to sell you their, their whole values. If you will. Is to enrich people's lives. Like that's how they talk about it. And then they're hired for those right brain. Are those prefrontal cortex values they're hired for empathy and compassion, this idea of not selling but enriching lives.
I think you're exactly right Mike, in that this. This new wave, that Apple is kind of writing right now of experiences versus kind of the material is exactly how Apple is going to continue to differentiate themselves and defend their high prices and high margins. I think, yes, the technology is good, but is it really that much better, you know, is the thousand dollar iPhone 10.
That much better than the $150 Samsung that I can get. And I think this will continue to make their position defensible. And so, in a way, I think they're kind of finally now coming into and living up to the value that they're promising to their customers in really interesting way in, in, in the way that the employees in the retail, uh, store are acting in this very customer centric way.
Yeah. Now, now I know you like me, uh, for all of our involvement in the tech universe and w we know how to work our way around the map, the old Mac book pros and, and so forth. Um, Despite all of that. You and I both, we both love a good visit to the Apple store. I mean, I'd like you to tell me, like, what do you, what does it feel like when you go and shop at the Apple store and what makes it special for you personally?
Hmm. It just seems really well run. And even the people that are there because their computer, their phone broke. Like they seem happy, you know, if you go into like a returns line or something like that, and any other retailer, and I'm thinking like, even someone like Macy's or Nordstrom, it's just like, it's so much easier.
I think, to get really upset in that kind of environment, as opposed to an Apple store, because they invite you in, they take your name, they show you to, uh, a place to get seated while you wait. Um, and you know, someone always comes by and lets you know, that someone will we'll see you soon. And you know, of course you're in this beautifully designed well lit with lots of daylight kind of space as well.
And you know, you might just pick up and play with the latest, uh, piece of technology while you're there waiting. But I think they, they, especially the, the Apple retail employees, especially go out of their way to make it a good and positive experience. For you, which, you know, aside from a few other retailers that I have direct experience with, like it, it doesn't really, it's not the norm.
No, that's, that's absolutely true. And I think that the, the interesting thing is that when you, when you isolate how good the retail experience is, not only does it stand out in the consumer electronics space, but actually. There are a few stores that really feel that good to go in period. Like it's just, I remember going into the Apple store in Amsterdam about, uh, 18 months ago and like really struck me, maybe it's just cause I was back in Amsterdam and just not walking around Sydney or San Francisco.
And I was walking around Amsterdam and I was with a friend and we're in the store. And I was like, man, this feels like a really great cafe, or even like a library kind of vibe on the second floor. It was amazing. I was like, I want to hang out here. And you just, most retail is like this mission in how fast can I do this?
How can I avoid the queues? And it was just completely different for Apple. I mean, it does really have that experience. It has a vibe, like any good cafe, right? Yeah. And I don't know what the official policy is. I, I have never been in an Apple and a retail employee, but I know that it's a company-wide policy for the Ritz Carlton that any employee has at their discretion, a hundred dollars to.
Give the customer a delightful experience for their stay. So if, you know, if, if the housekeeper over hears that it's someone's anniversary or birthday, you know, they will tell, you know, the, the kitchen staff and they'll have, you know, a cookie and ice cream or something, you know, sent up to the room or something like that.
And I, I feel like at least when I've been into the, into the Apple store, like it, you know, your whole thing with the keyboard, like, I'm sure that there's some policy that says, you know, what. If we have an in-stock and it's, you know, clearly, uh, uh, you know, uh, defect or something in the product, like it's just a no brainer.
Like, of course we're going to get you a replacement and send you on your way. They, you know, they trip over themselves. I think in a way to, to be sure that the customer's left feeling really, really happy. I understand that it's not always the case. You know, I, I have seen kind of the horror stories on YouTube of people taking in things to get repaired and, and things don't work out, but like, I think on, on the whole it's the Apple retail employees really go out of their way to make it that delightful experience for the customer in, in any way they can.
Yeah. I, I totally get now here's something I want to add to this. My, where the real learning is here is when you isolate retail. You can say, okay, Apple is doing, it's doing great. They're not resting on their laurels. It really Ford in doing all this crazy stuff, it's like, you know, the, the sales staff are there to help you and help solve problems.
There's all these creative wizards running around the spaces is a, is a town square, but here's the crazy thing. This is where the unfair advantage of Apple and the domination comes from is right adjacent to that. They do two other things. The first of those things is they build great. Product so that the iPhone is beautiful.
The MacBook pro is beautiful. The software on their, on their devices, their respective software. It's all good. So not only is your retail moment, right? Where you have your moment of truth and you buy something or your service by Apple, but actually they're real products and services they're delivering are, or so on average, have a very high quality and standard.
But where the third pillar of their innovation approach is incredibly powerful. Is this what they do is they have enormous teams building really cutting edge operating systems, obviously for the Mac and for iOS, but they also have their own computer languages. They've got Swift for apps and so forth, but they also have one of the world's most effective supply chains.
So what happens is they're innovating on a sort of a network wide system-wide basis. They have innovation happening on product. They're having innovation happen on customer service. And when you put all three together, they're really in a league of. Amazon, Google and Apple. These are the only three tech Titans that innovate across the spectrum.
And if you stand back, there's just, if you look at each of those three companies, because they are doing so much innovation across that spectrum, it's almost, you can't even fathom how you might actually beat a company like that. Like. I dare you. Like, look at Samsung has devoted billions of dollars and they've barely pushed the needle against Apple because the truth be told Apple is hard.
Um, Samsung is hardly making any money on phones. That's the real truth here is just they're buying some market share. That's that's what on their responses to Sue Apple. That's all they can think. Is that hilarious? So this, this is the big learning you need to innovate across the spectrum, right? Apple is literally only one of three companies that really do this at a, at a world-class level.
And when you do this, that's why you have the biggest company in the universe in Apple, Inc. It's that's that simple. They innovate across the spectrum. I think the takeaway for me too, is like how. How could, or how might I deliver a similar kind of customer experience for the people that I work with and kind of making it a policy to, to go out of the way to, to make it a positive experience for a customer is kind of one of those things that I'm taking.
Away from this as well. You know, if, if that means, um, you know, overnighting materials or doing something over again, because it's not because the, the, the end client is not delighted or it doesn't say, you know, Oh, that's great. That's amazing. Um, I think the, the word of mouth. Evangelism of Apple fan people, uh, you know, speaks to the power of delivering.
It only comes from those kinds of experiences. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think what we're looking at here is one of the, uh, the, the best business cases in, in, in current times for, for, for where innovation is at the fact that they managed to convince Angela to come. From Burberry as CEO. The fact that they're looking ahead in they're already got succession planning in place, and what's so exciting here is I think that, uh, this, this next clip really captures this entire vision that they have.
And I think this is such a great way for us to, to capture the essence of their retail innovation. So, so let's take a moment now to hear the vision for Apple retail. So, you know, have 500 stores all around the world, Angela, you referred to them as town squares. How do you define success for the town squares?
What are the key metrics you're watching? Yeah. You know, there's a lot of different metrics and the first one people would expect you to stay would be revenue. And I'm sure that the CFO and that's what they're looking for. But to me, it's how many people come. How long do they stay? You know, if I could ask them a handful of questions as they, um, the original reason Apple retail was created was to enrich lives.
So by the time they left and if they attended a today at Apple session, I'd love to be able to say, did you learn something? Were you inspired? Did we enrich your life? Did you connect with other people in the community that maybe you didn't know before? So. And we are measuring those. We're actually working with a firm and we're going to get some very cultural measures.
If you will. And then of course there's all the hard metrics that one would expect in retail. You, you do have that insight though. Um, Angela, so when you, you talked about the experience a lot at the store, and when does that translate to sales growth? Um, meaning, you know, I come here, um, I meet up with friends.
I intend to concert. I, I take a workshop or a class. Am I more likely to buy a device or accessory? Well, in the way we look at it is. Building a relationship. And if we can create, we can, when the eyes and create a life long loyal relationship, where you trust us, you trust what we're teaching you, you trust what we're we're offering for you to purchase because we're not selling you.
And then. It's no different than fashion. It's no different than right. Don't you go back to someone who's taken really good care of you, who you trust to make you a better version of yourself. Hmm. Yeah. I think just hearing her reiterate the kind of, why behind the strategy of the stores makes me excited to see how that continues.
I mean, I live within walking distance of the second Apple store here in Brooklyn, and I see all of those things kind of happening, you know, the con the confluence of community and education and learning. And, and, you know, as she says, enriching people's lives. Yeah. And the craziest thing here is by just putting the needs of the customer first, they end up having a great retail business that makes money.
So ironically, you get to the point where it stopped selling, trying to be greedy, to make money ends up, making you more money than, than anything. I think that's the beauty of what we're seeing here is, is another confirmation of solver, customer problem. Don't you. Yeah. And it, it's interesting to contrast her experience beginning at berberi with beginning at Apple, because I think she was.
Walking into a flagging retailer at berberi, whereas Apple, you know, as people are saying, well, Apple doesn't have any problems. Why, you know, why do they need to bring in someone like Angela? But this, this next clip I think, is a great summation of kind of this, this drive towards innovation for her at Burberry, that she was able to really hone and test and then bring with her to Apple.
It's fascinating at Burberry. We don't really have to encourage innovation. I'd say it's a part of the DNA. It's a given, um, we've got chief creative officer. Christopher Bailey has created an amazing team, be it in product, be it in marketing, be it in store design. So, so I think by nature, we are a design driven organization, but I think the most important thing is for all the different constituencies to come together and.
And constantly, constantly drive for further innovation, regardless of what area that they're in. I think that I think with as fast as the world is changing today and what digital is not only enabling, but causing, I think that you've got to be, your eyes have to be so open and, and, and your census, so aware of all of those changes and inevitably if you're not innovating, then I don't think you're going to survive.
Kind of interesting that she found a way to deal with a brand with all that heritage and hundreds and hundreds of years. And this is the Burberry way, and this is the famous cross stitch and all of that that she managed to, to come in and, and take this sort of innovate or die approach, which how many big old classic brands do you see?
Capable being able to make a shift like that. I mean, you are, this is, this is sort of a rare moment where you're actually seeing the transformation of some pretty old dusty brand here in Burberry. And she did it and I think it takes enormous energy and courage really to create such. Uh, huge degrees of change.
And I would imagine Ted, she probably walked in and most of the Apple retail people were like, Hey, you know what? We got this like, dunno why you here were already the best retailer. What can you teach us? But, um, it's very interesting. She just comes with such a, um, a dynamic approach to, to changing the game and pivot.
Yeah. And I think as we get a little. Deeper into the clips here in the show. We'll, we'll begin to kind of unpack a little bit of how she views, you know, the, not only the future of retail, but just how she works with people. Uh, and you know, including Tim cook, you know, her, her, she has this great reflection on her.
You know, her beginning conversations with Tim cook as she was, uh, being offered the job. As well as some of the kind of tactical things like how to harness the energy of people again, how to listen, going back to her, you know, her listening to her when she, when she started. So, yeah, I'm, I'm excited to get into some of these, these later clips to kind of get into the, the mindset of, of Angela.
Yeah. And I think, I think we discover a little bit about her when we look at how they managed to. How to get her and just, I think what we're seeing in this second part of the show is how she approaches things, how she thinks about things. And I think she does have a rather courageous characteristic.
She's got a lot of that Oprah. Emotional energy and confidence, but she's a very shrewd like rewriter of the brief. She changes the game dancing. She's got some knack for reframing the question. Oh, absolutely. And I think it's epitomized in this next clip, as she's reflecting again on her, her interactions with Tim cook before she's taking the job.
So let's, uh, let's just listen to. You know what she was thinking and how she responded to Apple's interest in poaching, her from Burberry, you know, in one of the, and one of the emails, I, I kind of proposed something that I thought might delay him a couple of months. So I sent a very nice, gracious, humble email, and I just, you know, thank you so much, et cetera.
And if you ever would consider. The retail stores and integrating those with the online business, because that's the lens that I see the world through, you know, at, at Burberry, we did everything digital first. So I said, if you ever wanted to integrate those and then wanted to, wanted to make sure that they did something even greater, you know, everywhere that they played, you know, played a more important role in the community.
If you, if you really ever considered doing that, then of course I would have to consider. Hmm. It's um, she's very, she's almost a bit too humble, but she really was basically saying he would be the terms. I want you to completely combined digital and analog. And what was really telling is, is Tim Cook's. I hadn't really thought of it like that.
And she basically said like, if you want to keep this conversation going, here's the terms in which I would. Continue on. And the fact that it was rooted in so much clever thinking and she had the courage to say, no, this is how I think it should be done. I think there's a big thing here for us to, to, to take away from this that not only like trying to get a job, but when you're having important negotiations, maybe with a client or a partner.
Whatever it is at work. Um, the ability to say, what's the problem. What's the, what's a radically new way to approach it. This unlocks so much value. And what's kind of interesting. She seems to apply this in how she negotiated her job, how she thought about creating the town square. She she's really not afraid to think.
Yeah. And she has the confidence to stand behind. Her inquisitiveness, curiosity and questioning. Cause I think that's, what's. At, at the core of this because she didn't just outright say no, but then her curiosity was like, well, you know what, what if I took everything I learned from Bri and then added to it and then took that to Apple.
And then, so she kind of took that stream of thought from her head and just maybe accidentally or not. So accidentally, you know, wrote it in the stream of thought in that email to Tim cook. Can never believing that Tim cook would take it seriously, but then of course, Tim cook is like, Oh yeah, of course.
That's interesting. You know, let's continue the conversation. Yeah. The, the, um, the big thing here is that I think she has the ability to make powerful recommendations. Because I think she has a very important behavioral thing and let's be honest, like how many people have you and I personally worked with right.
Who, uh, love the sound of their own voice, who love, just to tell you what time it is. And isn't it amazing that when you look at the success of Angela iron's. That it's kind of, she has gone about it in a totally different way. Don't you think that's quite powerful. Our reminder that. Where she, she, she gets her solutions from it's sort of this humble starting point, isn't it?
Yeah. She's, she's not operating with a set of assumed solutions. I know that both you and I, Mike ourselves have gone into engagements before where we think we already know what needs to be done. And then when we get into actually trying to solve a problem, we uncover so many other things that. Are the real important things.
And that's, what's fascinating to me about this email exchange he had with Tim cook because she didn't proffer any kind of assumed solutions to him. She was just like, how might we bring the community in and make, you know, and help the Apple retail experience enrich people's lives and going very wide and broad with that vision of what could be, I think is, is ultimately what intrigued Tim cook, because if she had said, Oh, well, You need to do these three things and then that that'll fix it.
It would be very easy for Tim cook to say, no, that's not the solution and then move on. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. No, I think, um, actually this, this next clip really kind of has. Perhaps the secret ingredient, we could all do a little bit more of, uh, which is her, her key behavior that she demonstrates that enables her to make bold new recommendations, new ideas.
We really, this is really cool. We get to see where it come from, where it comes from. So let's have a listen to Angela iron's and her secret behavior for making amazing pivots, leaps and recommendations. Listen, I know it's a, you think back and you think that, uh, I was very fortunate to have a six month transition period with my predecessor.
And it's funny because if I would have implemented everything that I thought about the first 30, 60 days, um, no, I can't imagine where. Hmm. Listening. So simple, but I mean, I'm, I'm always trying to make myself shut up and listen. I'll be honest. Yeah. Well, it's hard for us here on the podcast. Yeah. And we love a good yarn, but geez, what a powerful reminder.
I think this is a reinforcement of a lesson that's, that's been kind of pounded into my brain over the past couple of years by. You know, friends, mentors, advisors listening is so powerful in all situations, whether it's at the outset of an engagement, when you're trying to see if it's a good fit and that can be, you know, a client expert relationship or an employer, employee relationship, it's very hard to be comfortable with silence.
And in all of these clips, I've noticed that. Angela is very comfortable with silence. Many times when she's asked a question, she pauses for 10, 15 seconds, and she's totally at ease and it's quite noticeable, but in a way that pause by the time she gets to speaking, you're like, come on, come on, come on. I want it.
I want, I want it because. You can just feel the thoughtfulness that's going in there. It's kind of the, the subtle Finn, physical manifestation of her listening being still and quiet signals to the other person that, that you're actually listening. And it just, you also doing that helps you to listen better.
And so not already thinking about how you're going to respond to what someone says. In what she does is she listens. And then she, when the person stops talking, she pauses and then reflects on what the person has said to just to decide what she's going to say. And that is so hard because no one likes that silence it's so it's so true.
And everybody feels this need to demonstrate their capacity through broadcasting, right. And rather than, than, than listing. And she's such a great, I mean, look at her CV has CV alone. And the fact that she says, this means you got to pay some attention to this because there's no way she could have built these teams and mobilize these, you know, stale old brands and transform them.
There's no way she could have even gone to one of the most innovative companies on the planet and got them to innovate more. Chad. Like let's just make the best retailer in the universe even better. So I think without a, uh, without a doubt, she brings this high emotional intelligence intelligence, this thoughtfulness, and I believe that that has to be the driving force of how she moves so many people don't you.
Hm, and this next clip really teases how she brings together the, the team that is aligned and working in that same way, because I think someone like her will foster the same kind of. Listening empathetic environment. And that's a big reason why I think in her mission for more for Apple retail employees to deliver an enriching customer experience.
Like I believe that because I've, you know, we've seen that in, heard that from her in, in many of these clips, but this particular clip is how she's been able to assemble the, those teams to align around that mission. Are there a lot of 20 somethings running a major fashion houses in the world? Probably not, probably not.
And I will tell you I'm really guilty cause I'm not great talking about myself. I'm just not because you know, I'm only as good, always as the great teams that are around me and no different than you guys. And, um, and so yes, I, I have, I think what happens though is, is when you discover who you are and you discover your passion and then it's not work, it's your life.
And so. You just, you just get into that zone and you, and so I was so fortunate that, you know, met the right people, things fell into place. Absolutely worked my butt off. And I think when you direct your energy and you become so passionate and you unite people, right. And you leave people all around believing in something, and then things just fall into place.
I mean, thing. And I know that. And when I say things, the revenue, the profit, right. So I never went in saying, I'm going to do this. Right. You know, I went in saying, you know, what, if we did this, you know, and, and I've always, I've always, you know, I've always been a dreamer. You know, my father used to always say, take off your Rose colored glasses.
And I would always say no, and now I don't have to, I can keep dreaming. But the important thing I've learned is though I have to get enough people. Right. I have to surround myself with enough people that can help execute that dream now. And, and, and that's, that's all that I've ever done. Hm, it's, it's really one of these moments that you realize for all the good ideas you have.
You have to get people mobilized around an idea and a vision. Uh, and she kind of plays it off as like this karma, like, Oh, things kind of work out, but. The reality is if you get people inspired and fueled on a big vision, a man they'll call him mountain. Yeah. And I, again, I think her specific language is important here in the same way that her practice of pausing and listening and being comfortable with silence the way she reframes, uh, instead of her declarative statements of this is what we're doing.
She asks what if. We did this. And then thank you, uh, Stanford, D school and IDO for, for the phrase. How might we do this? I think those two things, because she's. Approaching things from that lens, from the curious, I don't know the idea, you know, I don't know the answer point of view and perspective that because she's not kind of barking orders and shouting, this is what's happening.
She's asking a question and inviting answers. So then she's pulling the people in through that. And I think it's really. Fascinating encouraging, you know, inspiring that that is her leadership style. And I mean, I would say, and I'm sure you'd agree like that. That is the only way to lead is to not, you know, bark orders and hope that people follow it's actually to kind of invite those people.
Yes and important too, because you have to realize she's doing it Apple, which you know, was home, uh, for Steve jobs for so many years who up until he changed his approach was very much this dictatorial type of CEO. Uh, so Angela is very much of her time and much more. You know, humble and empathetic leader and she's, she just really demonstrates a look.
You know, you gotta give people time to get on board with the idea. You've got to bring them a vision, but you got to mobilize your people. Like no matter how much, like no matter how good the product. Well, the product idea, you got to get people seeing and believing the same thing that you have. There is no use having that archetype or founder who's seen the future, but is completely unable to get anybody else to see it because in the end it takes an army to get this kind of thing done.
You just don't get this thing done by yourself. And, and she's, she's obviously a genius at getting people to come along for the ride. Isn't she. Yeah. And, and I love how the tone of this clip again, is kind of hearkening back to, you know, the Oprah's and more, maybe high IQ innovators that, that we've talked about.
And this final clip we have. I think explains a lot about everything. We've heard both her philosophy and theory about the future of retail, but also, you know, how to motivate people and get people on her side to help enact that vision. And for her, it really just comes down to the importance of energy.
And so here's a clip from her Ted talk from six or seven years ago about the importance of energy. Very few leaders talk about it and even fewer have mastered it. But when you find it energy is like discovering your passion, listening to it, exploring it. It's like this forward charging spirit. That creates challenges and embraces those change and challenges.
Every one of you has encountered a certain person felt like someone is more present, or when you're around them, you feel more real, more aware, or you've walked into an environment or an office. When, when things feel like they're moving a little faster, for some reason, instinctively you're drawn to it subconsciously you want to be a part of it, but you can't really articulate what it is.
So think of energy, almost like emotional electricity, it has a powerful way of uniting ordinary people, their collective spirit to do extraordinary things. You know, the funny thing, when I hear that clip is you can see how the, almost the first half of the show, which was all about this vision for transforming retail stores, into town, squares, and helping people.
And what, you know, asking what did you learn today? Have we helped you today and how much that relates to this idea of energy? Like I know you believe that Angela can have. No, ma'am, she's rumored to drink five or six cans of diet Coke a day. It doesn't really matter how much diet Coke she drinks a day because the truth be told is you've got to have this purpose to power that energy.
And, um, I really like how she talks about things that are not traditionally talked about by, you know, corporate leaders. It's perhaps seems a little too soft and airy fairy. Um, but the truth be told, like, When you do walk into an office that she was talking about this about, you can feel that the place is on fire.
There will always be a few main protagonists within the organization, often the founders, but not always who bring that energy and feed the culture of the organization. And you can just, uh, start to buy by. Now, I have this very strong feeling of this. High energy, high engagement culture that I can just see would permeate around her in the holes that Cupertino, I mean, what do you imagine to be like, and the retail stores too?
Oh yeah. They were saying that, you know, 60% of Apple's employees are in the retail stores now. And the, the metaphor of energy as emotional electricity is very apt and. I think that's very, it's a contagious idea. I feel like many employees can just understand very quickly and say to themselves, I want to be that person with the energy, passion, emotional electricity, because of all the benefits that she's talking about.
If you have, if you personally have that and how that can be shared and spread to everyone else that. I mean, I don't know about you, Mike, but I want to work on a team or with a client that's just as on fire as I am for the project. Oh, totally. And, and I always, I always think of this, this story that I, that I often say, like, people want to be around other people that are on a mission because there's something.
So, um, how do I say addictive, compelling, and being about being around people on a mission and, um, I, I honestly believe that she's just a great example of someone on a mission and how you just, you just can't help it be, can be compelled by her because she she's doing she's on her own mission. She's helping others.
Like what's not to like there. Yeah. I think this, all this clip with the last. Clip makes it easy for me to understand why Apple and Tim cook probably specifically was so adamant about bringing her onto the team because he saw that energy and emotional electricity inside of her and knew that, you know, she would infect everyone else at the company with it.
Oh, abs absolutely. The, the, um, the, I guess the real question for you is Chad, like when you hear about her talking about this energy thing, it can be a bit abstract. Like how do you process that? Like, how do you. What do you personally go? Oh, I could use that because her style is not going to be the same as mine or yours.
So how do you kind of find something in there for you that is natural and authentic to you as, as a leader? I think in whatever I'm working on, I can find an interesting, something that I'm passionate about. You know, if I'm not excited about all of it, there's probably one particular detail that I can be excited about.
And then, yeah. I kind of focus my energy and attention on that, and then hope that that passion and excitement can kind of spill over into everything else. I mean, many times I'm excited about everything. Um, but sometimes, you know, just the reality of work is sometimes you're not. And so it's just a matter of finding that.
Finding that one thing that you, that you can get very excited about, uh, bring that energy to, and then kind of ride that through everything else. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Now, um, we've gone, uh, very like we've gone through, so. Uh, many different learnings and ideas here. I mean, number one, she's totally just pumped up Apple retail and she's integrated analog and digital she's transforming.
What was, you know, the anchor, which was used to be the, the genius bar. It's now the town square. She's. I think reframing questions and, and by, by listening very intently and she's mobilizing people, this, she covers so much ground in the insights that she shared with us, you know, on the show. I'm, I'm trying to, I'm really interested to know that with so much breadth to the learnings.
Is there some of those that stick out to you as being more, either relevant to you or more profound than others? Like w. W what's stunning to kind of rise to the top as being the big Chad, uh, learning from the show. Uh, and it's funny, cause this is like the shortest clip, but having watched so many clips of, of Angela, I think it's the one on listening and being comfortable with silence and.
How that can and should inform everything that you're doing. You know, she shows up as SVP of retail at Apple and spends months just visiting stores to listen to what everyone has to say, customers, employees. And again, I think if you take that position as a leader, you're automatically going to attract people towards you instead of repelling them, which I think happens a lot of times when you have a, you know, replacement of such, um, high level leadership inside of a company.
I can't think of a single entrepreneur that we've had on this show that has really talked about this listening idea. Hmm. I mean, it's very unique to her. I mean, it's, it's, it's like her thing, right? Yeah. Just the, yeah. And just listening to her, I, I feel like you can understand that about her. There's not a bit of braggadocio, you know, in her.
No, no, no. She's quite differential too, to the teams and people. So she sorta has that high emotional intelligence of Oprah. But she's, um, there's a thoughtfulness. Um, that is, I think Fred Smith struck me as being very thoughtful. Which would you say that she's kind of in that vein of thoughtfulness? Yes, absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah, because that, that really stands out to me as being her thing. The thoughtfulness and the listening and what you and the curiosity, and you kind of feel that by the time she's done her listening and her thinking seems almost inevitable. Her success, like almost fait accompli, like she just sees it so clearly because she listened and then she really thought about it.
So it's almost like, yeah. We'll know one that she's got good ideas. I mean, if she's focused on thoughtfulness and, uh, And listening. I mean, come on this she's what a what, but what a great little mantra for us to wrap the show up on, on just like, listen and think then, then maybe say something I really liked that I find it very unique to her.
I think it's such a great way of capturing her essence and what, what we can learn from her. Yeah. And I. I didn't, I didn't even know who she was until she had popped up on our list of, of people the profile. And I was very pleasantly delighted in the clips that we found, I think, because she she's right up there with all of, you know, the innovators here in this group, but yet has a different take on things.
Um, which has been very interesting. Yeah. And, um, if you just think about. Once again, there's all these, this, this kind of overlap in terms of particularly her leadership skills and mobilizing people and, and, uh, understanding the customer and, and going beyond just a quick sound thinking long-term, but she's really brought us that, that listening and that thoughtfulness has a very unique signature to her success that no matter whether you're at this enormous company or a little startup, Um, everybody can win with a little bit of listening and thoughtfulness, right.
Yeah, but, uh, the Apple story doesn't end here. Does it make, Oh my gosh. I mean, she's setting the bar pretty high, but on a completely different universe is none other than Steve was NIAC. Oh, all the laws I haven't, uh, researched my clips yet for Wozniaks. So we've, I assume you haven't. So we can only go on the mythology of the was I'm interested in, well, what are you expecting to find when we, when we research, was it clips about what he has to say and think about the world?
I think we'll get a really interesting perspective of an extremely nerdy. Know, product obsessed founder that had fruitful and fraught relationship with, uh, with his co-founder and started a company, uh, that was probably ahead of its time, saw it go through many different transformations. And I'm very curious what that perspective will bring.
So yeah, I can't wait to dive into the clips. And, um, to, just to know that we have Steve jobs after that, what an amazing collection of three wildly different approaches to success, all of whom these three individuals have big impact on the way we live our lives. It's so exciting to think about what we can take out of that, but I love this idea of just.
Shut the hell up, do some listening, do some contemplation and thoughtfulness and then everything else will kind of work itself out from there. I love that. Yeah. So, uh, what's on the, uh, what's on the docket there in Bucharest for you, Mike. So tomorrow we've got, uh, a really big event, uh, with Dan quarter's, uh, Georgetown professor artificial intelligence, but E's really cool because he's, uh, Study a lifelong study is where.
Uh, philosophy and science intersect. So he's looking at sort of the, the moral, uh, framework that you need when we get to a world of transhumanism, artificial intelligence, singularity. So, um, Very excited about that. Lots of, uh, meeting lots of clients tomorrow. So it's, it's, uh, it's a great, it's really great to be in Bucharest and doing the thing.
Will that be recorded by chance? Would you be able to send it to me, man? And it will be alive. Live broadcast on Facebook, but by the time everyone hears this, it will be an archive on Facebook. And we'll put a link to the recording in the show notes, and we've totally forgotten to plug moonshots.io. So everyone knows where to get all the information about the show and the show notes.
And what's what's happened on the archives what's to come yeah. And emailing it. Well email both of us@helloatmoonshots.io with, uh, with your suggestions on who you think we should talk to or not talk to you, but hear from you, right? I should say. I mean, just to remind everyone, you can even go on our website@moonshots.io and you can even see.
On the, on the future shows link on the home page. We have all sorts of, I, I want to know, uh, we have, we've only done one or two special episodes summary shows, but I'm thinking we could do the greatest innovation books, uh, innovation tools we have in terms of clusters of innovators to study, we could have an authors trilogy.
You know, thinking Simon Sinek there for sure. Um, what about greatest investors, Warren buffet, and another one we've been kicking around is greatest architects. Think Frank theory, Lloyd Wright is a ha dude. I mean, there is some cool folks out there. Innovation fails. You like that one? Yeah. That's another one.
I, I like, yeah. I mean, I'm thinking segue, uh, Apple Newton. Uh, what else was a big fail? Blockbuster Kodak, Nokia. I mean, geez. You know, there's lots, there's so many good ones to study. Okay, dude. How good is it being, uh, to get together again? We've had a, uh, a small break due to travel and work and all that sort of stuff.
Some marriages, right. We went didn't you have your sister in? Uh, no. I mean a different family member, but yeah, lots of, you know, summertime spring, everyone's getting married, having babies, having birthdays. Yeah. Um, great to catch up again, Chad, thanks. Ever so much, uh, good. Like how cool is Angela Hirons and this whole thing of, Oh my gosh, she's going to be the next Apple CEO full Shoah.
Right. But I don't know. I'm going to hold you to that prediction. Mike we'll see barring any accidents like that thing is running, but I got a lot out of that and what a good confirmation, just, you know, listen and think a little bit more and that's something universal wisdom right there. Chad Owen. Yeah.
All right. Well, thank you to you. Thank you to our listeners. Tell us what you think, what you feel hit the moonshots, the IO what's what's remaining for you this morning in New York. You're off on adventures, I think. Oh yeah. Going straight to a client meeting and, um, Yeah, tomorrow got a shoot in Manhattan.
So just for that shooting in the big Apple, uh, I'm, I'm going to be, uh, talking future horizons and artificial intelligence life doesn't get any better than this. Once again, Chad, our listeners. Thank you for being part of the show. Thank you everyone. Head off to moonshots.io. I think. We've got some listening, some learning and thinking to do, uh, thanks to Angela.
Iron's from Apple. It's been a great show. Take care of everyone. That's right.