David Goggins: never finished
EPISODE 212
Let's dig into mental toughness. In this episode, we study the brand-new book Never Finished by David Goggins. Goggins shares the philosophy, psychology, and strategies that enabled him to learn that what he thought was his limit was only his beginning and that the quest for greatness is unending.
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Runsheet
INTRO
David Goggins introduces us to his new book. Never Finished (1m28)
YOU MUST MOTIVATE YOURSELF
Productivity Game breaks down a core message of the book, with the Wake-up challenge. Awaken your inner savage (2m41)
HOW TO DO IT
Productivity Game discusses how to stay true to your ambitions and objective with a voice recorder. Self-talk audits (1m27)
Chris Williamson and Andrew Huberman discuss what it’s like studying David Goggins. Lean into friction (5m07)
OUTRO
Goggins closes the show with advice on how to conquer the new year. Drop by drop (57s)
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Transcript
Mike Parsons: Hello and welcome to the Moonshot Podcast. It's episode 212. I'm your co-host, Mike Parsons, and as always, I'm joined by Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning, mark. Good
Mark Pearson Freeland: morning, Mike, and good morning listeners and subscribers. We are kicking off this new year with a new book, aren't we? Brand
Mike Parsons: new mark, you are underselling.
This is the biggest way I could think of starting a new year for our show is going to one of our all-time most popular experts, gurus and Inspirator. And they have a new book, don't we?
Mark Pearson Freeland: That's right, everybody. We are digging back into the man, the myth, the legend. David Goggins and his brand new book never finished.
Unshackle your mind and win the war within. As described on many online sites. This is not a self-help book. It is a wake-up call, and I think the title of Never Finished, as we will discover on today's show, is Perfect. Perfect. Coming from a man who has repeatedly proven that he just won't quit, right?
Mike Parsons: The title Never finished. Brand New, David Gowin, straight to number one. It is enormous, not only in the bookstores but also for us as people. You, me and all of our listeners, mark, who are trying to be the best version of themselves, trying to be 1% better every day. This book takes on a whole new, if you will.
So it's super fascinating to see. It's a more philosophical, reflective, and strategic idea of never being finished. And it again starts with some really powerful stories that wake us up. It is like a big ice bath reading a book like this. I am thorough.
To my bones to be able to break down a new book from David Goins. And what I'm delighted to tell you, mark and all of our listeners, is it contains some new thinking, some new practices and habits to really get comfortable in the discomfort, or as Goggins would talk about, how to become uncommon and Mark in this world where we enjoy such comfort.
Everything is in real-time; food comes to the door. All the movies in the universe on our laptops, in a world where it is also easy, David Goins comes to us and helps us not to press the snooze button, not to walk away from the last rep at the gym, not. So to walk away from the idea of running those kilometres or miles, David Goggins comes back in 2023 to wake us up and to make us aware that there is something so much bigger in life than heating the snooze button.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Oh, what an introduction, Mike. I think the only way, the only build, the only direction that we can go from that perfect setup for this brand new show number 212 is actually to hear from the author, the legend himself, Mr David Goggins, introducing us to this brand new book of his called Never.
David Goggins: Proud of many of my accomplishments, but I am damn proud of this. Never finished. Unshackling your mind and winning the war. War end. When I do my books, and I finish 'em, I give him the one person to read, and when you read Can't Hurt Me. He became his favourite book. So I gave him, never finished. He was like, most people's second books aren't as good as the first. When I gave it to him, I knew he would change his mind about that bullshit. So when he gave it back to me, he goes, how the hell did you do it again? Man, this book is truly amazing. He goes, how do you write books that are so inspirational to people? I said my suffering has a purpose. And trying to find your best self is not a straight line. There's not a certain number of steps. I don't sit there and wallow whenever life puts me in a dark hole. I study it. And when I was born, I realized that my DNA wasn't enough to take me to my destiny. So I had to learn how to maximize minimal potential. And if you read this book, I guarantee you won't shock in your mind, and you'll win the war within.
So we also have a clean edition here, and a clean edition has a clean edition on top. For those who don't like cussing, the audiobook is on Audible. The audiobook is one of the best.
Mike Parsons: audiobooks you ever heard. Three
David Goggins: hours extra content. There's stuff in there that I'll never want to hear again because it goes so deep.
And I'm telling you right now, this will be one of the best books you have ever read. Stay hard. He is helping us unshackle our minds in this new book. And I think this is the important thing, mate. He does embark on attempts to do the impossible to run further, to do hell week more than any other.
To qualify for all the special forces in the world when nobody has existed. Nobody else has actually done that. But the important thing is in this book, he starts to reveal why he begins to reveal how you can do it too. And I think this is a really important thing. Goggins has some haters out there.
And I think that the way to perceive, read, ingest, and digest, his thinking, his work, and his books is to go about this with what I can learn from him because that's why he's doing it. That's why he shares practical tips, processes, and habits to do it. I think this is. All about the idea of discovering that you have so much more potential than you realize, and it is only through the pursuit of challenge and hardship that you will find that if you do not choose to get uncomfortable, the greatest mystery in the world will be how great you could have.
Because until you get dis, discomfort, challenge hardship until you go and face your fears, you'll never have a clue how much potential you have. You are gonna be sleepwalking through life. This book. In combination with Can't Hurt Me. His first book is the ultimate one-two punch. They give you the tools, the thinking, the philosophies, the perspective, and what results in it is a wake-up call.
And I think the big thing we're seeing here is this is no longer. The first book was, which is Crazy Story of an Amazing Feat. Here are some tips on how he did it. What we are hearing and never finished is a broader set of thinking and philosophy on how this is more than just the one challenge it is making.
Your life is about the challenge, and this is super rare ground. Few people knowingly and willingly enter this space. Goggans is giving us the ticket to get their mark. It is crazy. It's exciting. How are you digesting this kind of next level? It's not just about the one-off event; it's about a lifetime of challenge, of getting uncomfortable.
How are the cogs turning in this new year with this new book from David Goggins for you, mark?
Mark Pearson Freeland: As I reflect on this, Kat hurt me in his first book how, where he tells those stories of completing elite training, the only man in history to. Elite training in the Navy Seals, the US Army, and the Air Force; that mental toughness, self-discipline, and hard work that he put into accomplishing those feeds remind me of Brene Brown, who encourages us to go out and enter the arena.
But what I think Goggins is demonstrating within never finished is you don't finish and stop when you get in the arena. So, you've gotta stay in it. And that takes hard work as well.
Mike Parsons: It's a bit like James Clear in Atomic Habits. He's this is just not having a set of habits, for the classic 30 or 60 days to, he's oh no, it's a lifestyle.
It's similar, isn't it?
Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, it absolutely is. And the difference that I think we can see from can't hurt me, where he reflects on that elite training. We've obviously dug into David Goggin's breaking the World pull-up record where 4,000 world record, and it took him three times to try and actually accomplish it because of the physical.
I suppose endurance, as well as his mental ability to really stay true and continue doing that. Never finished is a great reminder that you must stay the course. Similar to James. Clear, as you were just saying, if you can create a habit that you revisit every single day and it's physical, maybe it's getting up at the same time or morning, maybe it's learning something new.
Where I think Goggins is building us into and making a case for. Is that how you live every day of your life. It is the journey towards any glass ceiling. So you continually focus and seek out those obstacles or stay true to the growth mindset that Carol Dweck would tell us.
It's all about being focused on just continuing to be that best version of yourself. But you can only do that through perseverance. Yes. And what I love about that first clip is that we heard David Goggin say, finally, your best. So it is not a straight line.
Mike Parsons: It is like we're at war with. Comfort.
We're at war with self-doubt. We're at war with, ugh, ugh, I'm done. We're what he's really proposing is it is a constant war against our genetic desire to survive, which means don't push yourself through your barriers. Stay safe, and stay out of harm's way. And he's saying the price you pay for that is mediocracy compared to what you could.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Absolutely. And as we heard again in that first clip, the d n a, your DNA n a doesn't take you to your destiny. And I think Goggins is a personal personification of that. He was a depressed, overweight young man. Yeah. Who got told he could never enter the army. What did he do? He's the only man in history to do seals, the Army and the Air Force eventually.
Mike Parsons: And that's not his d n a; that's his mental drive and resilience focus. Yes. And he talks about the way you do that is, is through your inner savage. And I tell you what, I think the moonshots members are. Really tapping into their inner savage. Mike, do you realize we have over 10 members who've been with us for over a year? Those guys are savages. Should we not tip be tipping our hat to them?
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think we've got a tip. Not just our hats, but also I'm gonna dust off the trumpet and make a good case for our annual members, including Bob, John, Terry Marlin, Ken Dimar, Marj and Con Yasmin Lisa and Sid Mike. That's a whole list of people that just keeps on growing, and we couldn't be more thankful for you guys for your continued.
But that doesn't include the people who are short on the heels of those individuals of our annual memberships, including Mr Bonjour, Paul Kelman, David, Joe, crystal, Ivo, Christian, Sam Kelly, Barbara and Andre, Matthew, Eric Abbey, and Chris, Debra Lassie, Steve Craig, Javier, Daniel, Andrew, and Ravi Yvette, lgv.
Karen, Raul, PJ and Nico Ala Ingram. Dirk and Emily. Harry, Karthik. Vanatta. Vin Parra. Sund and our brand new members, jet Pablo and Roger. Who? Mike. It just keeps on growing, doesn't it? That list.
Mike Parsons: Too good. Too good. We are super grateful for those Savage members and are looking for them. We have the following clip: Productivity Game, one of our favourite YouTube channels, breaking down this brand-new book from David Goggins.
Productivity Game: Never finished talking about how you can awaken your inner savage. David Goggins is a retired Navy Seal known for his incredible drive and mental toughness. But after the success of his last book, can't Hurt Me, which chronicled his difficult upbringing and feats of endurance, like completing an ultramarathon in death alley, he started coasting through life and stopped challenging himself.
In the book, he says when life stops kicking you in the teeth and serves you a big bowl of praise pudding, it's easy to feel that you are the man, especially at that level of respect that was hard-earned. But praise. Whether it comes from your superiors, your family, or anyone else who has a down. It can soothe your inner savage and keep you from feeling the need to grind.
Each of us has an inner savage who hungers for new challenges. As Goggins rested on his laurels en soothed his inner savage to sleep, excuses like a busy schedule, family commitments and health concerns convinced him to stop striving and growing devoid of any daily growth. Goggins slowly lost himself. He says that respect is earned daily by waking up early, challenging yourself with new dreams and embracing the suck.
Like you have nothing and have never done a damn thing in your life. So if you're feeling satisfied after hard work and starting to take it easy, it's time to reignite your drive and wake up your inner savage with a challenge that will explore your limits. Late one evening, Goggins received an email from a friend who wanted to see if he could run the lead field trail 100 race to raise money for his.
The Leadville Trail, 100 is a 100-mile foot race in the Colorado Rockies; it starts at 10,000 feet above sea level and includes 15,000 feet of elevation change. Goggins would've leapt at the opportunity to run Leadville a few years ago, but now he was full of hesitancy and excuses. But, he says, after decades of hard-charging, I was stuck in neutral.
No close to the mental beast. I'd once been Baggins couldn't get lead out of his. Deep down, the challenge haunted him because he knew it was what he needed to awaken his inner savage. Get out of neutral and get back on the path of self-discovery. Your wake-up challenge may not be physical. It might be intellectual, like obtaining a difficult career certification, competing in a competition, or launching a new product.
Regardless of what your wake-up challenge is, it must meet two criteria. First, your wake-up challenge must be a fear pod. Something you're nervous about committing to, but once you do, the seeds of confidence and self-discovery scatter along your path; taking this path will make you more self-assured and self-aware.
And second, your wake-up challenge must require daily effort. Goggins didn't take a day off training for Leadville, even on rest days. Instead, he visualized sections of the race to prepare his mind and body for the challenge.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Mike, there is so much in that clip from Productivity Game.
Mike Parsons: it's like the book in, in, in two minutes.
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think that breakdown made a case for when we were setting up. At the book at the start of this show, I want to dig into some key messages and insights That the productivity game is calling out. Obviously, it's orientated around this idea of the inner savage and what I think is quite interesting is, How much David Goggins, as we heard in that clip, was able to sit back after the success of his book.
And even though you and I, and maybe our listeners, may not be bestselling authors who have sat at the top of the Times New York lists, such as David Goggins and gone on to shows such as Joe Rogan, et cetera. And be successful in the public eye. I think all of us have probably experienced moments when we've accomplished something great, and we look back and are proud; it's very easy to take your foot off the gas, isn't it?
That project or that piece of work, that accomplishment has been finished. Maybe my marathon has been my swim has been completed. Great. Now I'm gonna relax. When you start to do that, similar to what we were hearing from productivity, Of our David Goggins, is this savage or this idea of growth mindset still requiring some fire.
It still requires fuel, and it's always gonna be there when you start to relax. I, for me, at least, start to maybe get a little bit of comfort. Because that's the path of least resistance. I begin to lean into the idea of, oh, it's mu much like a holiday, taking some time off, recharging the batteries. That's all very good.
But what happens is when you are faced with a new challenge, and one day you go back to work, or one day you've got a marathon, suddenly the next week you think, oh, I'm enjoying this easy lifestyle. Maybe a bit too much, and the shift in focus, the shift in mindset from rest and relaxation into right, I'm going to go out and challenge myself again.
That can be quite a jump content. Changing the rails of your mindset takes a little time, and I think Goggins is calling out to us to say, " Take your foot off the gas completely. You always need to maintain momentum, which means it'll be much easier to get it going again. So what are you hearing from the productivity game?
Mike Parsons: I'm just marvelling as I did when I was reading the book. I was marvelling at David Goggins being invited to an ultramarathon, of which he has run over 60. Okay? He gets an e email saying, Hey, could you come and run this? This ultra raised some money for a charity. Under normal circumstances, the savage of David Goggins would like to see ion, but.
After all his success, the book is published. He received the email, and he was full of doubt. He was full of excuses. Mark, can you believe
Mark Pearson Freeland: The man we've made a case for with episode 94, Mike, can't hurt me. The self-discipline, and mental toughness, he's then himself. Being able to think, oh, I wanna take some time off.
I'm not sure whether I wanna do Leadville 100. Yeah. Isn't it interesting a man so driven equally was similar to how my mindset might be
Mike Parsons: I'll tell you, I'll tell you. Let's build on that. If the hardest man on the planet got a little bit soft. Judaism success? What does it mean for the rest of us,
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think the critical insight, which I think is quite interesting, is how David calls out and reminds us that life is full of distractions. And in this case, distraction can be a success. So yeah. I think this is a bit of a change or a paradigm shift because we're all looking towards success.
But at the end of the day, what David is making a case for is success. I e bestselling book, completing a race, whatever it might be, can be detrimental as well. So if you can ensure that you don't become too distracted by success, and equally, you don't, therefore, rest on your laurels, and stop pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone, and instead, you are only within your limits and therefore you're not really growing.
You are not gonna discover that best self; you're not going to really understand what you're capable of, are you?
Mike Parsons: Exactly. I think this is really it. This is the heart of this book right here, right now. And that is just because you have done something remarkable once. But, of course, this does not give you permission to check.
In fact, Goggins is saying we all are designed by our DNA, if you will, to resort to comfort. The easy path. Why? Because our body wants to survive. Now, if you know about this, then you can hold yourself accountable to never being finished, as he says in the title of the book, or alternatively, as he says, to not find yourself in a situation where you are not being the best version of yourself, where you are actually.
I did a thing. I'm good, right? What's the classic thing we hear of so much in life? Family and friends who retire start to suffer really poor health and mental attitudes. Why? Because they have lost a reason to live a challenge that gets them uncomfortable. Goggins is saying to us you are never, ever finished.
It would help if you always were looking to improve. To grow perfection is impossible, so that means you should never. Give up. You should always search for that because that's what keeps you alive. It keeps the world in high fidelity. You'll see everything in HD 4k. Otherwise, we're sleeping zombies. This is the choice of savage or a zombie, I think it comes. So I think it comes down to that, right?
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think you're right. I think you're right. And those two essential tips that we heard from productivity game. In terms of how to awaken that savage with the fear pods. So focusing on things that can allow you to experience something that maybe you are afraid of or you really don't wanna do, which then, in turn, enables your confidence to grow; it is a daily effort is, again, calling back to, as you pointed out earlier, James Clear Atomic Habits.
It reminds us that we should seek out much like any growth mindset daily. And it's up to us how we want to, how we want to do that. Nobody else can force us into doing it, can they? So it's up to you, me, and all of our listeners and members to seek out opportunities each day.
See a challenge; see it as an opportunity rather than an obstacle that you wanna avoid or ignore. And instead, build on the confidence that embracing your fears and getting over them can reveal to you. So I think he's really making, once again, similar to Can't hurt me now can't hurt me, is the possibility to push beyond our capabilities that we might think we have already reached.
But in truth, we're only just scratching the
Mike Parsons: surface. So let's imagine that we are trying to convince someone of this idea that you are never finished, why you should get uncomfortable, and why you need to go to that inner savage. All right, you with me, Matt? I'm with you. I'm here. Okay. So let's imagine we're building the argument of why you should choose this path over a path of comfort.
So here's the framework. You could be a savage or a zombie if you are a zo. If you don't challenge yourself, if you don't search for new things, if you don't make yourself a bit uncomfortable, mark what are some of the negative things that start to happen when you live a life like that? I
Mark Pearson Freeland: It becomes pretty demotivating, the obvious one.
Mike Parsons: Boring, for sure. You probably don't meet too many new people either. Because you're just doing the same old thing, right?
Mark Pearson Freeland: It's the same old thing. And what happens is we've all experienced when you're just doing the same thing day in and day out; it becomes a little bit of a drag, right?
And you're not being challenged. And what happens is it's then, To wake up in the morning to motivate yourself, to get out of bed, to go out and do
Mike Parsons: think about this. I would never have ever known. That I could run a marathon. But one of my friends said, come on, let's run a marathon together. And I signed up for it. And oh my gosh, if you had told me a year, six months before I ran the marathon, Mike, you're gonna run a marathon like you're crazy.
That sounds impossible. It is amazing what potential is within us. But the catch is that we are often not aware of how much potential we have, and you need to go do stuff to realize, huh, I can do that. And Mark, let's now go on to the pros of this. If choosing the savage over the zombie, if you are searching out.
Discomfort and challenge if you are never finished. I believe you are meeting lots of interesting people. What else? What are the other benefits of that life?
Mark Pearson Freeland: For me, it's real confidence. Yeah. Similar to your marathon experience, I certainly would never have if you'd asked me this time last year before joining and completing and taking part in ocean swims.
Imagine myself getting in the water not only every week but almost every day and being exposed to the cold and also the level of distance and depth. And what that's enabled me to do, as we've spoken about in previous shows, is build my own confidence when I'm in other situations. So the knock-on effect is the compound interest of being exposed to and embracing and trying out things you've never done before.
Similar to happiness, being a muscle that you can train. I think exploration and curiosity are also something that you can build on and train. Oh yeah. And exposure to new things builds a life that's just a little bit more fun. It really
Mike Parsons: is. So seek daily habits that challenge you. A huge way to uncover your potential. And if you do this constantly, you'll never be finished. You'll continually be growing. And I think we sold a lot of upsides there. I will tell you what a great daily habit could be. Visiting moonshots.io and clicking around. Not only all the content map could also become a member.
You could; there is actually a member's button. There isn't.
Mark Pearson Freeland: There is for those who want to find out more and dig into the moonshots learning out loud methodology, pop on over to moonshots.io. Not only can you listen to read as well as download. All of our shows and episodes 212. You can also, right at the top of the page, become a member, and we have so many members that join us every single week who all not only support the show as we explore and learn from the greatest people around the world, they also get access to a brand new.
And an exclusive set of shows. Oh yeah. That enables you and me, as well as our members, to dig into habits, frameworks, business ideas, and themes that surface throughout all of our moonshot shows, and it gives us the possibility to dive in a lot deeper. We've done creativity, Wisdom of the Stoics' goals. Oh my gosh. Moon Startup. The list goes on. We've done 19 shows already, and that keeps on growing.
Mike Parsons: So there you go. Head over to Moonshot, and become a member. Support the show. Get access to the Moonshots Master Series. It's an entirely new podcast right there. And we do a lot of things.
We even featured a lot of David Goggins on the Growth Mindset episode. So check it out. So now, we've made this case for the savage over the zombie. Now you're probably saying okay, how do we get going on this? What are some techniques, and are there some new ones that build upon David Goggins's work in Can't Hurt Me?
Mark Pearson Freeland: The answer is yes, and it is all about a new technique. It's called self-talk Audits. Productivity Game: Once you identify and commit to a wake-up challenge, get in the habit of performing self-talk audits. Not long after ramping up his training for Leadville, his body ached, and he kept telling himself he needed a day off.
So he sat down on his couch, grabbed a voice recorder and wind into the microphone. He recorded his feelings and made a solid case for a much-needed rest day. But when he played it back to himself, he wasn't convinced. The excuses he heard lacked substance and were just a desperate plea to quit and seek comfort.
In the book, he says, my inner crybaby was suddenly the emperor with no clothes buck naked in the light of day. He was impossible to ignore and even harder to stomach. After listening to the recording, I was off the couch and on the road for a few seconds. When you wake up tired and not eager to get after it, complain about the things you dread doing in two, a voice recording app on your phone, then play it back to yourself.
Oddly, you'll find the voice on the other side is not someone you want to be directing your life. Instead, Goggin says that speaking to ourselves in moments of doubt is crucial because our words become actions and our actions build habits that can coat our minds and bodies with the plaque of ambivalence, hesitancy, and passivity and separate us from our own lives.
After you listen to, yourself whine about the things you don't want to do, hit record again, but this time pretend you are motivating a friend to get them through a challenge.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Mike, this is an interesting idea and technique that I think we should try and lean into and discuss. I love this idea. This is really exposing. A weakness that you might have. It's really uncomfortable. I think it would be challenging for me to pick up my voice recorder and nail it the first time, but I can imagine picking up the phone, recording it for maybe a couple of minutes and getting a huge amount of. From doing so, oh, because there are so many times, whether it's poor weather, maybe it's a bit cold, maybe it's a bit rainy, or maybe there's just something on my calendar that I don't want to do because it's gonna be stressful, uncomfortable if I write it down or if I say it out loud, it might be something that I don't wanna do.
So my gut instinct tells me ah, This is not a tip I wanna follow, but I think it would be so incredibly valuable because you can see and hear those weaknesses and when you are reminded that this is a man who's challenging himself to go back out into the arena, somebody who was not resting on his laurels and goes out and completes another Leadville one.
Another ultra-endurance race. I'm motivated to think if it works for him, it'll work for me. And by hearing my own voice, maybe complaining, maybe whining. And then I hear the individuals we study on the Moonshot show, and I think they're not whining. So they get up in the morning to go out and do it. So it's motivating me to go out. Could you give it a go? How are you hearing that?
Mike Parsons: Very practical, valuable tip. Oh my gosh. Like, where do we start? Like me, the reality here is this is a technique that can go and deal with one of the most significant challenges we face. Yet we so rarely actually work on and that is the inner voice, inner dialogue.
If you think about Mark, the inner conversation you have with yourself every day, nobody else hears it. So nobody else can call you out on it, right? So it's tough. Self-accountability is really hard. That's why they talk about having mastermind groups, coaches, mentors, and bosses, cuz we all need someone to keep us a little honest, don't we?
Absolutely. Okay. So here's the thing though,, here's the thing though, is that, if you are thinking of quitting or hitting snooze, it's not like your friend or partner can say, I heard you thinking that. Could you not do it? You're just having that inside of your mind. Goggins is giving us this insanely practical tip, yet so powerful, to take your inner dialogue and whinge and moan and cry into your phone and then play it back to.
If you are thinking about not running today, oh, I don't wanna run today cuz it's hard, and my back hurts. So play it back to yourself. And then this separates you a little bit from that inner dialogue and helps you go, oh my God, would you listen to me there? I sound terrible.
Right? Mark? I think this is so good because we can hide the inner dialogue. Sometimes our entire life. We've talked a lot about the power of journaling, but this is like taking things to another level. After that discomfort of Yep, I will record myself moaning, griping, complaining, and then I'm gonna listen back to it.
And I. Just hearing it back and creating that detachment from it makes you wonder, what was I thinking? And I think this is great. How many times have you really written out your inner dialogue? How many times have you spoken and recorded your inner dialogue, yet it's driving all of your behaviours.
Mark Pearson Freeland: This is the, as you caught out earlier, it's the biggest challenge we all have. The motivation or the voice that demotivates you is your own? Yes. We are in control of how we react to situations and to obstacles. We are in the power of our mindset when we see a challenge as an opportunity, more so than something that forces us to stay in bed.
Oh, is it raining outside? Great. That's fun. It's fun running in the rain. Let's get out there. Nah, it's a bit wet. I don't want to get soggy. I can't be bothered. Maybe I'll choose another day. It's just a straightforward tone of voice. . But it can make all the difference. And fundamentally, what I've experienced when I have pushed myself and tried to motivate myself to do something that, on paper, doesn't sound like much fun.
More often than not, it is always much more. And by fun, enjoyable and valuable, either from a professional or just from a simple happiness mindset, comfort perspective than I initially thought. That inner voice always puts us off, and it really shouldn't because we are being controlled by this voice that fundamentally is part of ourselves, but we don't want to; we don't want it to get in the way, do we?
Mike Parsons: No. And we've talked about journaling as a way to get the inner voice out, to get you thinking clearly. I think. The self-talk audits. How brilliant is this? Not only has David Goggins done remarkable things, but he's also now providing us really simple tools to go do it ourselves. So I think this is putting your self-talk audit right out there, sharing.
That inner dialogue and getting it out of yourself is already a win. But then listening to it back, reviewing it before, and hearing what you actually sound like. Oh, and it's a bit like seeing photos of yourself at a party and going, geez, I, how much did I drink at that? It's a bit like that isn't; it's a bit uncomfortable.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Uncomfortable, I think, is the keyword there. Yeah. This is a man; David Goggins is a man who keeps on proving a little bit like Yoko Wilin. Keeps on proving the case for us too. Expose ourselves to these challenges to lean into those moments of discomfort and fundamentally challenge what I think Daniel Pink brought to us in the Power of Regret, which is this idea where you look back at your life and think, I wish I had done.
Yeah, I wish I hadn't put off that David Goggins is a man who, when he's done and nearly finished, he'll be able to look back at his life and think, I never stopped. And I kept on pushing, and that was a life well lived. So a
Mike Parsons: great exercise if we want to do self-talk audits is what I would recommend for you and myself, mark, and all of our listeners and members, is to have a look at something that.
Would really like to put it on your bucket list, which is not just entertaining and easy and comfortable, but is challenging, let's say it is. To hike a mountain, to do a big run, to go kayaking something challenging, to write a book even. I want you to think about that, and I want you to pick up your phone.
And record a memo and explain why you have not done it, why you have not booked it, and why you haven't started it. And to hear back. This recording of, yeah, I'm first, I'm waiting to do this, and then I'm gonna get that done, and then I'm gonna wait for the perfect weather at that moment at 1144, at that precise moment when the dog is asleep on the cat, I'm going for the run, and you're gonna go, what the hell?
Mark Pearson Freeland: The truth is those perfect conditions never come today. So if you put it off today, you're only making the excuse to put it off again tomorrow.
Mike Parsons: and there you go. Self-talk audit. Done. I tell you, what else you can get done is you can lean into friction. And one of our favourite YouTubers, Andrew Huberman, who is like science medicine guru parlance, is talking with Chris Williamson in this next group. They are discussing not only David Goggins, How he really ticks works and what we can learn from him.
So let's jump into this. This one's a longer clip, but it's really good because this is our opportunity to really study the individual David Goggins and ask ourselves, what can we learn from them and how can we do it too.
Andrew Huberman: You had David Goggins in the lab to study him for fear. What did you learn from looking at that guy?
Yeah, David's a David's great. I always chuckle with David because the one thing about David is what on social media is actually what you get when you interact with David. We worked long hours one day, and I was everyone ready to tap out. This was a bunch of people in Silicon Valley for a day, doing some workshop-type thing, and he was just changing into his running shorts midway.
He was gonna run to the airport and. Ran to the airport, as far as I know, to get his flight. I believe so; who knows,. But there was this moment of, should we continue? Should we take a break? And he was like, no, let's keep going. Keep going. Everything and read and hear about David is exactly how he shows up.
It's really wonderful. He came to the lab, and he did; we have a virtual version of the shark thing which, of course, is not the same as the real experience, but for people who are afraid of sharks, It's quite scary for them and allows us to study fear. So David was, he's very afraid of sharks, which was amusing to me, given that as a seal.
He had to spend a lot of time in the water. But he was the first one to want to do the VR. He talked about how he didn't like it, but that's why he did it. Constant testing himself. In fact, I think even though David's quite successful, I think, and has many options for how to spend his time, I believe this is correct that I think right now he's doing fire jumping.
He's fighting fires in the wilderness by zip lining in, fast lining in, or jumping outta planes. So he's constantly pushing that friction lever to create, build, or further build. This thing about leaning into friction. And this is a term that isn't really. But I decided to coin this idea of limbic friction, that when we're very tired and we need to be in action, or when we're very stressed, and we need to perform in a more calm and controlled way, there's friction on both sides.
Getting outta bed when we're exhausted. Hard, very hard, often leaning into action calmly and deliberately when we're freaking out, like going to give a public lecture if one has a fear of public speaking. Also hard. So this limbic friction and David just seems. Seek what I call limbic friction in every domain of life.
Is that like exposure therapy for limbic friction, then?
Andrew Huberman: Essentially, yeah. What you're training and improving when you're getting better at dealing with stress is this ability to tolerate high amounts of adrenaline in your body and to think clearly and function well. Adrenaline is epinephrine and just a little bit of physiology.
It's released from the adrenals, obviously above the kidneys that get your body organs. Amped up and energized. It can't cross the blood-brain barrier. So you have a high restriction fence that we call the blood-brain barrier around the brain to keep bad molecules out.
Therefore, adrenaline is released within the brain from a little cluster of neurons called lu locust Aurelius.
The name doesn't matter. So when you are stressed, Your brain and your body both wake up, and that adrenaline hijacks certain systems and narrows your visual focus, et cetera, et cetera. So if you look at almost all stress inoculation protocols, cold water, ice bath, cold shower, cyclic, and hyperventilation, those all do the same thing.
They generate a lot of adrenaline in the brain and a lot of adrenaline in the body. But it's different if the adrenaline in the brain and body is evoked. That you did it because under conditions under which you did the ice bath deliberately, and now you are wide awake can really alert.
There's this feeling that you have options. It wasn't done to you, but you can train up an ability to, for instance, think clearly and calmly, maybe even do some simple math problems in your head, or maybe try and relax. At the same time, there's all this adrenaline in your system that carries over so that you're driving along when we've all done it.
The person in front of you stops. And you're almost in the accident, right? So there's that moment where you could panic or that moment where you could, road rage or that moment where you could freak out. But if you are familiar with the feeling of adrenaline in your brain and body, you navigate that more calmly.
How? Because adrenaline is generic, there's no adrenaline for the car crash, the heights, or the relationship situation. It's all the same. So we can get better, we can raise our stress threshold. I like to refer to it, and that can be done through cold water or cyclic hyperventilation, ideally, not at the same time. Still, cold water is a universal stimulus for creating adrenaline release.
And there's a big range of cold, not infinite, but a big range of cold in which you can generate adrenaline without harming your tissue, whereas with. So you get into a very hot environment or very low oxygen environment, you'll also get a lot of adrenaline, but you can also suffocate and burn yourself. So this is why cold is used in Navy SEAL screening and training, and this is why I think so many people like ice baths and cold showers. Has a bunch of other positive effects, but it is a great trigger for adrenaline.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Limbic friction and getting familiar with leaning into it. Mike, this is a great physical but also conscious mental activity. Approach or action that we could, we can or utilize daily to build our resilience and familiarity. With our levels of adrenaline, a k stress.
What are you hearing straight away from that Great f frankly fascinating clip from Andrew Hoop? I could have listened to that all day.
Mike Parsons: We need to do a show on Mr Huberman. I think we will. Look, I think they mentioned, I'm gonna pick up on the habits there, cold showers running to the airport after you're finished, you'll remember.
I'm quite a fan of walking or running to the office and taking a shower before starting work. , these are all things you can do that are actually quite managed in your day to get friction in your life. For example, I negotiated and argued with my son about Cold House. He likes to go from warm to cold.
Because of the science of that, it's technically better. What I just like about going straight in. In the morning cold shower is how uncomfortable I am before I get it. Like it's really it's okay at the moment cuz it's summer here on the fair shores of Australia. But in the wintertime, mark The emotions I go through to get myself under that icy cold water that does me so much good.
It's just, bam. Wake the hell up, Mike; get uncomfortable. And you know what? You have that shower for a minute or two. You turn it off. And within moments, You feel fantastic. I wish everything had had such an immediate positive post-experience, but. Really what we're starting to see is there's real science.
It almost reminds me of the show we did on TLE, which talked about being anti-fragile. Do you remember that one?
Mark Pearson Freeland: Yes, absolutely. The idea is not necessarily thinking you are fragile and you can break, but instead leaning into and remembering that you can create resilience.
And what I can hear from, what you were just saying there, Mike, and when I reflect on the idea of how I deal with, for example, cold showers, is remember that everything is temporary. . So even though I have a high level of stress let's continue with the cold water. Experience actually.
If I'm, and I've been doing the same as you, getting under the cold shower, and that's been great for me in building more mental, specifically mental resilience when I go out and do some open water swimming, because then I'm more used to the unpleasantness of the cold. But actually, what it has taught me when I step away from the water and think about how I can deal with stress is I am now better at, remember, That will not always be under that cold shower.
That cold shower has an end to it. And it's a great reminder, as the first thing you probably do in the morning after you've exercised, get under that cold shower, is remember, whatever you encounter today, there will be an end to it. So I will find the solution. I'll ask for it. Or fundamentally, I'll just solve the problem.
And it doesn't feel as impossible as it once
Mike Parsons: did, does it? It's the same in your mind as your physical muscles that you know when you go and work out or run a long distance, your muscles hurt the next day. That is the fact; what is actually happening there is you have actually.
It's a type of tearing of the muscle, a breaking of the muscle when you lift those weights, and the pain you have the day after is the muscle growing back. But this is what is a scientific fact. They grow back bigger and stronger, so surely. If that's what's happening in the physical body, then that is also what is happening in mind and the relationship between your mind and body, your inner dialogue.
This is why you need the self-talk audits because your mind says, Hey, don't go for a walk. Even though your legs might be hurting, they're technically not shouting at you. Mark, don't run today, but your mind certainly is, so you have to get everything. Strengthened. Hardened robust enough. And that is why this philosophy of never finished is so important because even David Goggins fell back into the comfy chair.
Yes. And if we do that, there is missed opportunity. And that is the greatest upside of everything that David Goins has to say. Push yourself. Daily, never be finished. And you will discover so much within so much. What an invitation, Mark.
Mark Pearson Freeland: What an invitation. And I just want to read out what Nasim said about anti-fragility might because I think you are onto something here with making the connection.
Antifragility is beyond resilience of robustness; the Reis is resilient, resists shock and stays the. The anti-fragile gets better. , I think that's the key message here, isn't it? The more exposure you have to something challenging you, the more you can reframe it in your mind, and you can get familiar with that adrenaline.
You can raise your stress threshold. You get better yourself, don't you? You are not something that stays the same, and you react the same every time you encounter a challenge you get. Stronger, more resilient.
Mike Parsons: Yes. And let me just go matter here for one moment. If you want proof of this library of work, this group of experts that we study and look for the pattern within.
If you wanna ha have evidence of why we do this, why Mark and myself go deep together with all of our members and listeners every single week. Here's the thing, we. A Captain Navy Seal ultra runner, a remarkable guy saying, Hey, you must never be finished. You must get uncomfortable. Search our challenge.
And then, on the other hand, we have a Lebanese essayist, mathematician, risk analyst, and famous author saying exactly the. The thing they have the same lesson to teach us. If that doesn't validate the idea and the approach of always seeking a challenge to become anti-fragile from people of two completely different worlds, one from academia, one from the military, have discovered the same big idea about self-transformation.
Isn't that remark?
Mark Pearson Freeland: Isn't it incredible that we can see those connections, Mike? Because again, we've referenced Daniel Pink today. Atomic Habits, by James Clear, there are so many. Elements and lessons that once you do start to connect all those dots, you can see that familiarity. I think what I'm really hearing from David Goggins today we've never finished is again going back to that first clip we heard in today's show, the Guide to Self.
Improvement and being the best version of ourselves is not a straight line. You've gotta interact with the work of somebody like Tarp. Somebody like Daniel Pink. You can learn from an ultra ultramarathon runner like David Goggins. We can learn so many lessons from individuals out there that all ladder up.
Towards our best version of ourselves. Isn't it fascinating? Ah, it's so good.
Mike Parsons: And Mark, whilst we've just detoured into the great work of Nasim Tib and found this deep connection with Mr Goggins himself, I think we can bring it home with one last thought from David Goggins. Don't you.
Mark Pearson Freeland: That's right.
Listeners, members, Mike and the Moonshots family. Let's hear one more time from the legend, Mr David Goggins closing out our show as we look towards a brand new year in 2023. Let's hear how we should all utilize a mindset that embraces the idea of drop-by-drop.
David Goggins: Let's approach our goals this year with a different surgical mindset. Now it's elementary. Our science teacher had us get a glass and put it in the sink. He said, before you go to bed, turn the faucet on. So this one drip, get into that cup, and by the time you wake up can be full of water. He is teaching us about volume. I ain't learn shit about the volume that day. I about patience.
All I wanted to do was turn that fucking flossing on and throw that glass up. That's not how our goals go. Our goals don't go fast like that, then go like that of water. But what I took from it is that water was building that endurance in your mind; water is building that Callister in your mind, and that's what you need to have.
This is a slow process. And now you were talking about that stay.
Mike Parsons: Oh boy, mark, check this out. We vastly overestimate what we can do in one day and massively underestimate what we can achieve in a year.
Mark Pearson Freeland: This idea of short versus long term, right? Whether it's getting up in the morning to go for a run in the rain, which, in the long term, doesn't mean anything, does it in the short term, it feels like the worst thing ever.
This is a wonderful metaphor for the power of perseverance and patience. Filling it up, drop by drop, is 1% better every day. Just staying focused and remembering that you are in control and you just need to put in the effort, I think, is such a valuable way to close out this brand-new book from David Goggins.
This lesson we are really hearing from that final clip, Mike, is patience and consistency. If the only way to achieve success is to put time and effort into our efforts.
And work to get closer to the ultimate goal we have in mind. Then we just need to start today. So it's up to us when we start. So why not today?
Mike Parsons: So there you have it. Mark, from everything that we've discussed today, what's going on with the brand-new 2023
Mark Pearson Freeland: priority list? I, you know what?
It's the practice, the physical practice of self tell
Mike Parsons: audits. Oh my gosh. Same here. How powerful is it?
Mark Pearson Freeland: know. Very powerful. Oh, I'm cringing as I even think. It sounds challenging, it sounds aggressive as well as uncomfortable. It does. But as we know from David Goggins, you've gotta embrace that discomfort.
I'm sure it'll be uncomfortable for the first day, the first week, maybe longer, but I'm sure if we ask ourselves again in a couple of months, or maybe this time next year, Mike, whether the self-talk audits helps out, I bet you will say yes.
Mike Parsons: Here's hoping. Here's hoping. The only way we will know is by doing.
Every single day. So, Mark, thank you for joining me on this new adventure. None other than the work of Mr David Gogans. Thank you to you, and thank you to you, our listeners, and our members. We have the perfect start to a new year in the work of David Goggins's brand-new book Never Finished, which has been here at the heart of Show 212.
And we had a calling to awaken our inner savage. We had a calling to not leave anything on the table, not just to do this once daily, each week, each month, but to do this year on year. As a life work, and it starts with self-talk orders. So call out the winging and the moaning. Lean into friction and work hard on this every single day.
Or, as David said, drop by drop. Do this, and you'll be able to learn out loud with us here. Do this, and you will definitely be on the path to realizing your potential and maybe more. And that's, All about here on the Moonshots podcast.
That's a wrap.