Stephen R Covey: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People Part Two: Listener Favourite

EPISODE 180

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Stephen Covey: Hello 

[00:00:01] Mike Parsons: and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode 180. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons. And as always, Mr. Effectively is with us. It's Mr. Mark Pearson. Freeland. Good morning, mark. Hey, good morning, 

[00:00:14] Mark Pearson Freeland: Mike. Again, this is just a powerhouse of an episode that we're bringing to the moonshot family and listeners today.

[00:00:22] Isn't it? It 

[00:00:23] Mike Parsons: is none other than a listener's favorite mark. It's 

[00:00:27] Mark Pearson Freeland: a listener's favorite dear listeners. And today we're digging into Stephen Covey, the seven habits of highly effective peoplehttps://geni.us/4pzw7My. Part two, because Mike, you might remember it just a couple of episodes ago. We had Stephen Covey part. For the seven habits of highly effective people.

[00:00:43] And the truth is Mike, each habit is so impressive that we just needed to split this book into didn't we 

[00:00:51] Mike Parsons: Mark, I think it's like a supersize me mail. I think the work of Stephen Covey like jettisons [00:01:00] him into the the special or suspicious categorization of being a moonshot heavyweight godfather champion.

[00:01:10] He has seven habits that have stood the test of time. We can just, this is definitely a book to read every single year to remind yourself of what it takes to be good on the inside and the outside and mark today, we move towards the externalization of being highly effective. 

[00:01:30] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah. Yeah. I think that's exactly how I would describe it as well.

[00:01:33] In episode 1 75, where we did the part, one of the seven habits. So we did habits one, two, and three. They were, I think, focused on that self-mastery and starting to move from a dependence on others or dependence on ways of thinking into independence today. Mike, these other four habits that we're going to be digging into are more focused on developing kind of external facing elements, such [00:02:00] as teamwork, collaboration, there's communication skills in there.

[00:02:04] And then there's also the seventh habit, which is, I think probably my favorite to be honest, Mike, which is about continuous. 

[00:02:12] Mike Parsons: I'm going to confess that I am rather a fan of that one too. Covey has named his seventh habit as sharpen, the saw, which is really powerful and very akin to what Gerber in E-Myth talks about, which is working on the business, not just in the business sharpen the soul is taking time to stop soaring and actually sharpen the saw.

[00:02:41] And if we apply that to ourselves, this brings to me ideas of taking care of your body of your mind. Rest reflection, thought. Pose calmness stillness as Ryan holiday would put it, [00:03:00] isn't it amazing that people like Gerber and holiday Carnegie all riff around these similar themes to which Stephen R Covey riffs about.

[00:03:10] So there's gotta be something in it, right? 

[00:03:12] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah. Th this habit, a habit, number seven in the seven habits of highly effective people is like you say, trying to help us readers. Sharpen or build up that greatest asset that we have, which is ourselves. So like you say, it is, it's about body. It's about mind, it's about soul and spirit and a mindset.

[00:03:35] And I think that really does bring together what we're really trying to do on the moonshot show, which is shop and ourselves. Find those little. As you might describe them, or maybe habits is a better word, the habits around exercising or sleeping well about meditating, maybe keeping a journal or maybe it's educating yourselves and learning new skills all the [00:04:00] time.

[00:04:00] Maybe it's just putting others first. So then we have good relationships at work. It does encompass so much of what we are learning about in, like you say, with Ryan holiday or Gerber or many other of our moonshots individuals. 

[00:04:14] Mike Parsons: Absolutely. So it's not only about saws and tools, but it's also about win-win and listening, understanding, creating synergies with everything around you.

[00:04:24] So we might be lost in the fog of just getting out that sore. Soaring away, but I'd tell you what, Stephen Covey, he has the capacity to step back and shop in the store. Matt, we've got so much to 

[00:04:39] Mark Pearson Freeland: learn, right? We do. And if you listeners are fed up of hearing about those quick fixes, and instead you just want to dig in deep and learn some new skills.

[00:04:48] Then this is the show for you. So Mike, why don't we get into it? So we've obviously covered the first three habits last week in the previous show. So I thought we should really begin ourselves [00:05:00] and warm ourselves up for the next four habits. By listening to Stephen Covey actually reintroducing us back into his program.

[00:05:07] Re-introducing us to the seven habits of highly effective people. So this first clip or intro clip is going to be from Stephen himself, telling us about investing in yourself. 

[00:05:17] Stephen Covey: The essential purpose of the seven habits of highly effective people is to learn how to lead your life in a truly effective way to describe what the seven habits material is.

[00:05:29] Let me share with you what it is not. It is not a quick fix program. It is not a program of the month. It is a process of personal and interpersonal growth and development that will require not only your continuing best efforts, but also your patience. As we all know, real growth and development cannot take place overnight.

[00:05:52] You must pay the price over an extended period of time to reap the benefits of these habits. Implementing the seven [00:06:00] habits will be an upward personal climb, like a journey up a steep mountain. It won't be easy. It will be a challenge that you ascend the mountain. So to speak with the seven habits material, you'll become acutely aware of the loose gravel, the loose rocks in your life.

[00:06:16] You may slip occasionally, maybe even fall back a time or two, you will feel the gravity pole of old habits working against you, but all assured. As you continue in your climb and endure in your efforts, you will begin to feel a level of exhilaration and of attaining entirely new Heights in your life, higher and higher levels of effectiveness.

[00:06:42] By applying this effort, you can expect to increase your capacity to achieve your personal and professional goals and to develop better working relationships with your associates and all of your loved ones. In short, you can expect to become more effective. [00:07:00] Let me suggest that the best way to get the most out of the seven habits is to be very open-minded to be open to self-discovery participate, really get involved, look for ways to apply and to implement these habits in your life.

[00:07:15] You see our habits form our character. You may have heard the quote, so a thought reap inaction. So inaction Ripa house. So a habit reap a character. So a character reap a destiny for our purposes. We will define a habit as the intersection of knowledge, skill and desire. Knowledge is the theoretical component.

[00:07:41] That is the what to do, and the why to do it skill is the practical side of how to do it. And desire is the motivation side. The want to do it in order to make something, a habit in our lives. We literally must have all three components. [00:08:00] Habits are powerful factors in our lives. They constantly express our character.

[00:08:05] They determine the level of our effectiveness or ineffectiveness in the words of an English poet. We first make our habits. Then our habits make us the seven habits are simply common sense. Common sense, organized. But remember what is common sense is not always common practice. So I encourage you to make the investment, but for at the time and effort focused on the kinds of changes you can make consistently and over time to develop these habits, 

[00:08:40] Mike Parsons: mark, I think we just played the most moonshots clip in their history of 122 shows that has just blown me off my chair.

[00:08:53] I was writing down all the things I liked in it, and I just stopped because that was just so good. Mark. I think we can do the whole show [00:09:00] on that clip now 

[00:09:01] Mark Pearson Freeland: that way he can just, we can just break down each of Steven's points there. How good is Stephen Covey? 

[00:09:08] Mike Parsons: Seriously, I'm not joking when I say, I think that's the most moonshot clip we've ever had because in that, or.

[00:09:17] Not only the practices, but this story of embracing hardship and sticking to it. It's not going to come easy. It's not going to come quickly, but it will come over time. And ah, this idea that habits make the man. Oh my gosh. That is so good. And it is so 

[00:09:35] Mark Pearson Freeland: true. Isn't it, Mike? Yeah, it's so true. Because again, you're in charge of your reactions.

[00:09:42] As we learned last week, you're not to respond, but be pro active. You've got to own these decisions. You've got to own most importantly in that. The practice of doing these habits, cause they don't come easy. Like you were saying just before we [00:10:00] played the intro clip, these things do take that little bit of time that they aren't there on easy and exact is Stephen calls out in that we are the masters of our destiny, I think, as he puts it.

[00:10:12] And if you can break down these seven habits, if you can take ownership of the way that you react to obstacles as Ron holiday would've said, or Joe Rogan or David Goggins, in fact, anybody in our catalog, if you can start to own that's really what they're all saying. Isn't it own your reaction and go out and make that difference.

[00:10:33] They 

[00:10:34] Mike Parsons: really are. And it has, it speaks to so many different authors, experts, entrepreneurs, creators that we have studied together. To me, this has a really strong flavor of Ryan holiday and stoic thinking. Doesn't it's really got that, that, that sort of, you got to work hard, right?

[00:10:54] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah. You've got to accept that it's going to be a mountain climb. And when the gravel gets that little [00:11:00] bit loose, don't worry because of the journey end will be so much more valid when you get that, because you would have persevered, you would have found that personal growth that you would achieve those personal goals, whether they're professional or relationship and you would have.

[00:11:19] A better version by going through all of those hardships. It's spot on exactly what you and I like learning from these superstars. 

[00:11:27] Mike Parsons: That's why it's like a, it really is like a manifesto to, to what we do here on the show. And I could see that if James clear, the author of atomic habits was listing he's bought came some 40 years after that of Stephen Covey's, but he would be in violent agreement.

[00:11:44] That habits are not just for today and tomorrow as Covey started in that clip, they are a lifestyle. And that was something we really caught out on from James clear. Wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It 

[00:11:56] Mark Pearson Freeland: was you have to own the.[00:12:00] The challenge I suppose, or doing daily increments, right? Yeah. Atomic habits build from atomic level very small, but over time they become actually easier and easier don't they?

[00:12:11] Because it becomes your new habit is trying to create that new habit. 

[00:12:17] Mike Parsons: Yeah. And it's a lifestyle it's permanent. If this is not just a quick fix. And that gets me really fired up to jump now into the first step, into mastering teamwork and working with others. And the first of the habits that we're going to dig into in this second part of our study of the habits of highly effective people by Stephen Covey is all about the idea of when.

[00:12:43] When, and I want to encourage you mark, and all of our listeners to really sit back and enjoy this thinking that we're going to get from Stephen Covey, because this I think is really foundational. If you really want to collaborate well, then you must, as Stephen Covey would [00:13:00] say, find the win. 

[00:13:02] Stephen Covey: When Lowe's poisons the mind you don't trust anything.

[00:13:06] See habit four. Think win-win lies at the very heart of all relationships. Think win-win is the habit of mutual benefit. It's the habit of the golden rule. It's the habit of abundance. The underlying paradigm or principle is abundance. There is plenty out there and to spare. So you don't have to be threatened by the strengths of other people.

[00:13:37] You can nurture your competency around you higher than you. It doesn't threaten you. You can share knowledge, you love to share knowledge. You can share recognition, gain profit, but the people derive their sense of worth from being compared from the external, from the social value [00:14:00] system out there, how well they stack up.

[00:14:03] They're always in a state of anxiety. They're always studying the pecking order. They're concerned about how they're dressed, how they look they're into posturing and they are threatened by competency around them. They feel that if they share knowledge, they lose unique advantage. It gives others the same awareness.

[00:14:27] They have, they lose some power. If they share power, they have less. It's like a piece of pie. There's only so much. If you get the recognition, I may not get it. If I share Dean or profit with you, I, we will have less. It's the paradigm of scarcity, not the paradigm of abundance. Most people have never had profound experiences with win-win people.

[00:14:53] They don't really believe there's such a thing as win-win it's either you win or you lose. You're either tough for yourself. You're strong or you're [00:15:00] weak. See, they think in dichotomies either are those people will inevitably produce politicized cultures where politics run things, reading tealeaves, social inventions, natural laws will not govern, or they will become martyrs.

[00:15:20] They'll go for lose win, particularly among the important people. And then they'll often take out their energy on the ones that they can control so that their lose win above win, lose below what happens. At the side, all the pens on the moods, the ego, what happens in the marriage? Is it equal? Is it unequal?

[00:15:45] What happens with the kids? What about your employees? Can you begin to see that the roots of the win-win mindset comes deep out of the private victory? [00:16:00] If the private victory is real and sincere, you're at 

[00:16:04] Mark Pearson Freeland: peace. This is a pretty big clip might because where my mind immediately goes is I think you're almost brought up to protect yourself.

[00:16:17] And I think part of what Stephen's calling out and think when is the acceptance that you shouldn't hoard knowledge, you shouldn't hoard experience in your. Immediate inner circle, but instead use the experience that you've got from past moments as well as knowledge that perhaps you've learned and share that with others, this idea of abundance, share the abundance, the food for thought with others in order to make that team as effective and as powerful as possible.

[00:16:47] Because when you're only one person with all those skills, you're not going to be able to scale or grow or really achieve a huge successful moment. Are you? 

[00:16:58] Mike Parsons: Oh my gosh. There's [00:17:00] so much in there. It's a big one. Oh my gosh. We need a third show mark. So here, building on what you just said, I think.

[00:17:12] If we've done the work where we really know the subject matter, whether it might be a particular problem that we're trying to solve, whether it's a sort of an area of craft and expertise, I think it starts with having put in the work that, your stuff. I think you create the conditions by which you are happy to give away your counsel, your knowledge and ideas first.

[00:17:41] And I think that is essential to creating the win-win. So when we do meet people, don't sit there, maybe entertaining, I lose wind kind of paradigm. Give them your advice. For example with a potential new client just this [00:18:00] week. And I gave them advice and criteria by which they should consider the best partner for them in building this big brand new product, full of all sorts of good tech stuff.

[00:18:14] And I stressed on how they can have a successful process of finding the right partner because it's big, it's complex. Obviously that creates a lot of anxiety about who's going to be the right partner for them. And I was focusing on his, if I was in your shoes here are a couple of things you really need to make sure you managing this process and that you have the right conversations in the right prioritization.

[00:18:44] And. I think you can learn from those kinds of moments where you give that counsel to help them, which may be seen a little counterintuitive because you're you might be tempted to say, pick me great. But I think [00:19:00] if we enter every, and this is a real personal mantra of mine enter every conversation with the goal of trying to give a gift in the conversation, regardless of who it is.

[00:19:15] I'm not doing it with my wife every single time we talk, but like when you come to these meaningful interactions into them, let's say you're talking to a potential employee. Let's say you're talking to a potential partner or client or an important internal conversation. Think about how you might give a gift.

[00:19:35] And by that, you give an idea or just create a new way of thinking about the problem and everyone goes, huh, actually, maybe that'll work like that for me that's a gift. And that is, win-win thinking the abundance, thinking the growth mindset. I think it's all about don't hold back because that's one of the lose paradigms that Kobe was talking about.

[00:19:59] If [00:20:00] we can all go into conversations, we're looking to give before we get and just give good advice. Look, if you've studied something mark, and you're a real expert at it, what's the use of bottling it all up and hoarding that expertise. Exactly. Don't you think it's so much better? Give it freely out in the world, right?

[00:20:22] Mark Pearson Freeland: Give it freely. And like you say, give it as a gift. If you can. And reach your existing customer relationships by proposing something that maybe they haven't considered. And actually, I believe that what you just gave us a demonstration there of talking to a potential partner and giving them the tools to make the right decision for them is a great demonstration of.

[00:20:47] Our relationship. It's a great demonstration of look, I respect you. I want you to make the right decision for you guys. Maybe we're not the right fit. That's okay. But I want us to be equal as we come into that decision. [00:21:00] And I think that's really bang on what Stephen Covey's calling out in win-win isn't it because then mutually beneficial.

[00:21:06] Mike Parsons: Yes. So let's continue on this one because I think without the win-win, I don't think the other habits that we've got coming up really work that if we haven't nailed this, shall we explore mark the sort of the win-win framework that Covey gives in the book. And let's talk about this idea, these ideas of courage and consideration.

[00:21:29] Do you want to kick off how we might think about when. 

[00:21:32] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yes exactly. What is it you say in think when you've got to it's all about establishing these effective relationships, isn't it between yourself, maybe a team, maybe a partner, maybe a colleague or a customer and so on, but ultimately the best thing that you want to create are those win-win moments.

[00:21:50] Isn't it? You want to create a win-win situation because otherwise one person is always going to be less successful or maybe more negatively impacted and in [00:22:00] solving for that win-win moment, you've got to consider those two factors that you've just mentioned. It's courage as well as consideration and the way that the quantum the quadrant, sorry, chart might look is if you've got high.

[00:22:14] And low courage, high consideration, and low consideration. They compare when you've got a moment of high courage. I E I'm willing to share. I'm willing to go out there and expose myself along with that high consideration of the other party. So I respect the other individual and I want to achieve that mutually beneficial moment that Mike is a win-win because both people, when I'm feeling comfortable with the situation, as well as my the party and the other on the other side of the table, 

[00:22:46] Mike Parsons: let's unpack those a little bit. Let's go even deeper. I think we're like at level 3, 4, 5, or six here, I'm not sure, but we're going deep mark. So I think the way to think of a win-win construct [00:23:00] is where you have the courage to think. And respect what you're really trying to do. Your purpose, your team, your company, that's the carriage bit, right?

[00:23:13] The consideration is inverting that and being considered of the same dynamic, but for the other person. Okay. So you want to deeply understand, respect and find the win for the person that you're talking with and to have the courage, to look for the win for yourself. So when you bring a win-win deal together, here's how it's going to look.

[00:23:42] It's going to be tough to get there because there's a sort of a leap of faith because you're thinking big and the atmosphere, the way you get that done is really empathetic. There's a real sense of an earnest sense [00:24:00] of trying to create the win-win situation. Now, what I would propose to you mark, is that we know when we don't have, win-win like if it's tough to get to win-win because you have to have that leap and you've gotta be super empathetic and not fall for the ego.

[00:24:16] Could you imagine Ryan holiday listening to Covey then thinking about we all get bad results when we let our egos take over, when we try and win the deal, rather than get the win-win deal, we get the win lose. We beat them. We got them right. A very Ryan holiday about ego is the enemy. 

[00:24:34] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, it's bang on the ego is something that would impact that win, lose situation.

[00:24:40] You've just said, yeah. It's all about me. I've got that success. Yeah, I've got that sale, but what have I created? It's a relationship with no trust. All right. 

[00:24:49] Mike Parsons: So if you look at the quadrant and the win-win is a tough one, but it's done, which is very collaborative really empathetic. What, what did the what do, what does it [00:25:00] look like when the deal is not a win-win mark?

[00:25:02] How would you characterize those? If you look at the. 

[00:25:05] Mark Pearson Freeland: For me, there's always going to be a party that loses whether it's myself or the partner that I'm joining up with. Just to compare what we were just saying about the big ego, but losing more consideration of the other party and ending up in a win, lose situation where you're very tough, but you're not very nice.

[00:25:29] Relationship has not been created in the best way. Exactly. The adverse of that or the mirror effect of that is something that probably some of our listeners have experienced before, where they've been really happy with the consideration of the other party. You've given the customer everything that they want.

[00:25:49] You've really respected them. You listened to them. You've put in time, you've invested money. You've put in everything to get to a point of perhaps [00:26:00] collaboration, but you haven't respected yourself. You've given away too much. And what's ended up happening is that Seesaw has now gone over to a lose win situation because you have been in a slightly weaker position and you haven't respected yourself.

[00:26:15] So what you've ended up with is an unfair balance, isn't it? Yeah, it really is. 

[00:26:19] Mike Parsons: So I think the mutuality of a win-win deal, the empathy that is required for a win-win deal is the way to go. And I think the rule is, and I know, I'm guilty of it. Everyone's guilty of falling into the ego trap and trying to get the points on the board for you.

[00:26:38] I think the rule here is get the points on the board for them as well. So it's interesting. Now this really builds a perfect bridge into the next clip. And this is all about, okay. Imagine that we've just thought about this win-win construct and we're like, yep. Got it. That's habit, number four.[00:27:00] 

[00:27:00] This is exactly where habit five picks up because it's all about seeking to first understand and then be understood. And this is, this is really good thinking because you might refer to things such as servant leadership. You might have heard of topics like active listening and all of that kind of good stuff.

[00:27:21] So let's go to the master himself and let's find out what it truly means to seek first, to understand then to be understood. 

[00:27:31] Stephen Covey: You study every field of human endeavor. You study every problem solving process. In every profession without an exception. And you'll always find to understand precedes action, to understand precedes judgment lawyers go through a [00:28:00] discovery process.

[00:28:01] Often even prepare the case for the opposing counsel doctors diagnose before they prescribe teachers pre-assess before they teach, what does the amateur sales person do? Sells products? What does the professional salesperson to sell solutions? It's habit five seek first to understand then to be understood.

[00:28:32] The tendency in almost all people initially is to want to be understood, or if they do seek to understand they seek with the intent. To reply with the intent to in some way, influence to some way, bring the person about, to accomplish their own and not with the intent to understand. Now what's your first name?

[00:28:59] [00:29:00] How white is? How, where are those glasses coming to see better? Okay. But what did the optometrist do before he prescribed? He diagnosed the optometrist. Try to understand the optometrist was first influenced before attempting to influence. 

[00:29:30] Mark Pearson Freeland: I love that little story or that little interaction with Stephen Covey, because it's, for me, at least a perfect way of understanding habit five, seek first to understand then to be understood rather than, listening to a customer, come into the optician and say, Hey, I need glasses.

[00:29:50] And then the opticians say, yeah, great. Here you go. I've just made a sale or I've accomplished my ambition. My goal I've given a customer, a pair of glasses instead he [00:30:00] sits back and says, okay no, let's actually understand your problem. In fact, Mike, your earlier example of talking to a partner earlier this week and listening to the requirements that they had and helping them diagnose the decision-making of choosing a partner, I think again is exactly what this habit's all about.

[00:30:20] You're trying to first understand where the customer is and then. See if you can help them. 

[00:30:27] Mike Parsons: Yeah. And this helps you in so many ways, because when you're seeking to understand sometimes what might be revealed, if you just I had to do this, I have to remind myself of this because I'm a bit of a chatterbox, but in the, my earlier career, I really had to fix the desire to want to be first and the smartest in the room all the time.

[00:30:51] So I had to correct myself and by basically just shut the hell up and listen. And the interesting thing about that is like listening [00:31:00] and asking clarification questions before jumping into, okay here's how we fix that or here's what we should do or here's what we can do for you. Just take the time to listen, to understand, because a couple of things happen.

[00:31:16] One, you may realize, oh yeah, This person is talking about this problem, but actually there's a much bigger problem here. Or you might be talking to someone who you might be doing a new project with, or potentially doing a project with and you might go actually, I don't think we're a very good fit. And so what happens is you avoid chasing projects, deals initiatives, where there's actually not a good fit.

[00:31:44] If you're just always broadcasting and not understanding, then you're gotta spend all this energy. And then somewhere down the line, you're going to realize, oops, this didn't really work. So for me the real power here is [00:32:00] much like the win-win. If you know your stuff, take the time just to listen to the other person, whether it's a colleague, appear a client, a partner, just listen.

[00:32:10] I love this idea. Yeah. I always challenged myself that particularly when I'm dealing with a third-party, let's say it's a client and they come, they've go, we've got this problem. Could you help us? Don't rush to the solution. Always ask. I always set myself this rule of asking three clarification questions before I propose a suggestion.

[00:32:33] And that's just the way I present myself going on broadcast. How do you do it, Mike, if you want to understand before running out and saying, Hey here's my solution. Here's my idea. How do you do it? And 

[00:32:45] Mark Pearson Freeland: your story actually reminded me of that, of the way that Toyota do it. And they ask that, is it the seven why's.

[00:32:52] The five lines. Yes. Yeah, that's perfect. Isn't it? So they're seeking. That's a 

[00:32:56] Mike Parsons: great one. Might just go, okay. I want, let's say [00:33:00] you said to me, I wanted to do a triathlon and I would say why and know, cause it sounds fun. Why is that fun? And then before it, what Toyota believes is that if you ask why five times you get to the source of all ideas or problems you get to the foundation, the first principle 

[00:33:17] Mark Pearson Freeland: I would agree, again, because of these three these habits that we're talking about right now in Stephen Covey's book are all about teamwork on, they're understanding one another and you can't do that unless you are able to effectively interact in the right way.

[00:33:33] And this is a pure demonstration, isn't it? It's demonstrating to the other party. Hey, I can I can understand where you're coming from and that's okay. 

[00:33:45] Mike Parsons: But, if you do this at the beginning, the funny thing is that everything just goes much better because in any collaborative teamwork moment, if you seek first to understand the people around the table with you, [00:34:00] then you will be able to bring things together.

[00:34:02] Solve problems, sees opportunities are better, far quicker because you're aligned. And I think this is a big thing we talk about in the modern sort of ways of working here in 2021 is like getting people on board and aligning. The best thing you can do is Hey mark, we're here to talk about this big project.

[00:34:24] What are your first thoughts on it? And just shut up, listen, maybe clarify a little bit, but don't get ahead of yourself and say, wow, here's what we should do, blah, blah, blah, blah. No. 

[00:34:35] Mark Pearson Freeland: In my experience, what happens when you take that former route and say this is what we're going to do. I'm just going to tell you what works for us.

[00:34:43] And you should follow us. It shows that you're not listening or understanding that person. And fundamentally makes the other party feel like they're being manipulated. Doesn't it. And suddenly any idea of a long-term trusting relationship is getting weaker and weaker [00:35:00] because the other party might be questioning, okay where's this person coming from?

[00:35:03] What's their motive. Why do I no longer trust them? And that's really dangerous. 

[00:35:10] Mike Parsons: It is. And you know what? I think that whenever we want to work with others and get people on board, the more time you take at the beginning to understand where they're at, what they're trying to do, I believe. The better things go in the longterm.

[00:35:31] So we'll, you might be tempted to think like having all these discussions and conversations, getting context and asking why five times all that good stuff don't for a moment, think it's a bad investment because it compounds. And the later down the track you're so aligned, things can move really quickly.

[00:35:51] And when things unravel on a project, on a partnership, on a deal, you will often find [00:36:00] that the root cause is misunderstanding. Isn't it? My, 

[00:36:03] Mark Pearson Freeland: I would totally agree because, when you don't, it's the same with teamwork. It's a couple, it's a relationship it's parents and their children.

[00:36:12] When the, when two parties don't understand each other, what happens, there's. There's as he'd say, loggerheads you're bashing together because you're not communicating correctly. And that's exactly what you've just said. You can't have a good relationship unless the foundations are really strong right.

[00:36:30] At the very beginning. 

[00:36:31] Mike Parsons: And you can also do this, not only like when it's a an informal discussion or meeting, but you can also do this in presentations. One thing that I really suggest here and you've seen me do this is I always will start a, like a public presentation or speech or a tour by saying, Hey, I'm going to talk about this topic.

[00:36:53] And what I'm hoping to do is to give you at least one idea, one practical thing [00:37:00] that you could use in your work right after we finish I always start with a routing the conversation or the presentation in what I hope to do for. And I want to give you something I've thought about what you guys are doing.

[00:37:15] And I think I've got a ton of ideas that I'm going to share with you. I hope, I really tried to design it. So at least one of these or hit the target, I think that's a very nice way of being empathetic towards your audience and saying, look, I got a smorgasbord of goodies here. I'm hoping one tastes good.

[00:37:33] Mark Pearson Freeland: One is rememorable. You can walk away useful. You've got that value. Yeah. 

[00:37:39] Mike Parsons: Yeah. Good stuff. There's this understanding, but you know what, who else we like to understand?

[00:37:45] Mark Pearson Freeland: Is it our listeners? Mike? 

[00:37:46] Mike Parsons: Oh, mark you 

[00:37:48] Mark Pearson Freeland: deed. Oh, we I was going to tease the next habit. No, I feel like we're synergizing. 

[00:37:54] Mike Parsons: Don't synergize yet, but we want to understand that listeners. Don't we, man, 

[00:37:59] Mark Pearson Freeland: we really [00:38:00] do listeners. We love hearing from you guys. We love it. When you get in touch with us via the email.

[00:38:07] Hello at moonshots, did I oh, getting in touch via social media. You can really navigate to our let's call it our moonshots, our base, our headquarters, where you can go and find all of our episodes, our mantras, and lots of other little goodies over@wwwdotmoonshots.io. You can navigate over. Check out episode 1, 2, 2, Stephen Covey, part two.

[00:38:33] We're going to have our show doc, our transcripts for all of our shows, as well as a handful of goodies up there as well. And on final little way in case you do want to get in touch with us, you can navigate to our feedback button and you can leave us your thoughts, your tips, your tricks, that you'd like us to focus on in the future, as well as give us some new recommendations.

[00:38:56] We've got a good. Backlog Mike actually have shows we're [00:39:00] never going to run out of individuals to cover on the moonshot show because our listeners are so prone 

[00:39:06] Mike Parsons: to go into every time I was it Terry recently who came with two new guys, I had two new authors I hadn't heard of. They look fantastic.

[00:39:15] So thank you to Terry. But Tina got us onto Christine Liga. We really enjoy it when our listeners send in suggestions and ideas about what we should cover. We're really grateful for it, and we really encourage you to hit moonshots.io and send us all your thoughts, messages and good vibes.

[00:39:33] Mark Pearson Freeland: Fantastic. Please do moonshot listeners because we re we do read, we do reply and we do appreciate every time you guys get in touch 

[00:39:42] Mike Parsons: with us. That sounds like we are ready to do some synergistic goodness. And that takes us to habit. Number six, mark, which is this idea of synergizing now synergize. I don't know what to make of that as a word, give me some context, mark.

[00:39:58] Mark Pearson Freeland: I quite like the word of [00:40:00] synergy because it combines some of the other habits, we've covered now five of the seven habits from Stephen Covey and the combination of all of those, or as you say, the synergizing of all of those previous habits equates to number six. And it's a demonstration of this idea of synergy, which essentially allows you to open new possibilities, create maybe new alternatives or new ways of thinking, but ultimately engage an entire group in a productive environment that then creates that ultimate goal that you're looking for.

[00:40:36] So this next clip that we've got from Stephen Covey is the idea of synergizing 

[00:40:42] Stephen Covey: habits. Six synergize, in a sense is the fruit. All of that, the spirit of win. Have it for the spirit of seeking first to understand then to be understood, have a five. Then what [00:41:00] happens is a very powerful thing. When people begin to interact together genuinely and they're open to each other's influence, they begin to get new insight.

[00:41:12] Something happens to them, both. It creates the possibility of third alternatives, not the either or approach, not win lose, win, not compromise. Compromise is one. Plus one equals one and a half. Positive synergy is one plus one equals three negative synergy, one plus one equals one half. In other words, so much of the effort and energy is spent in the adversarial realism in conflict and defensive and protective communication.

[00:41:53] That literally, it just wastes the energy of the enterprise of the marriage, of the family, [00:42:00] anyone who has experienced sustained conflict and contention. They know that very little productivity can come out. So just remember those definitions. Synergy is where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

[00:42:19] Synergy means you can literally produce something that neither of you could have produced before and even adding what each can produce separately. One plus one, equaling two is not synergy negative synergy, where there is internal contention and add the . Produces less than even what one person can usually produce on their own, because so much of the energy is wasted going in the wrong direction and is counterproductive.

[00:42:54] Now the traditional paradigm is one of compromise. That's literally [00:43:00] where most people think we end up realistically. And it often is the case. If you're in load cross cultures, but compromise isn't necessary. If people will pay the price with habits four, five, and six, the key habit, six synergize. In fact, you could almost say the fundamental principle of six is to always value differences.

[00:43:28] It's not something you just accept that there are differences. It's not something that you tolerate. It's not something that is legislated through diversity programs. It is something that you celebrate. Genuinely the strength lies in differences, not in similarities. Oh 

[00:43:59] Mike Parsons: boy. [00:44:00] Was Stephen Covey getting on a roll.

[00:44:02] I think he was pretty damned to a judge by me. And then mark again. Wow. What are clip, right? What a thought celebrate the differences. Embrace the fact that we're not all the same. How boring would life be if we were all the same? This to me is the is such a, just a great way of living life, but I want to try and pitch you where I think this comes into play.

[00:44:28] Mark. I think the win-win construct habit four is really good at making sure that you're thinking about the person across the other side of the table. And whether they're a peer or a colleague, a client you're creating a win for them and a win for you. Okay. I think synergize is a discreet. Level higher.

[00:44:47] It's not just a win-win, but that win-win is truly the equation of one. Plus one equals three, that together we are doing something we could never do on our own. Somehow that the sum [00:45:00] is greater than the parts. And I think these are special friendships, special partnerships, our relationships with your colleagues, with your clients and your partners.

[00:45:10] This synergize idea is the search for not just mediocracy, but to go for great. And the way to get there is embracing the fact that people are different. Get used to it get comfortable with being uncomfortable and go after that special magic, great stuff. Isn't it. Mark. So 

[00:45:29] Mark Pearson Freeland: good. So good. It's I love this idea of the third alternative.

[00:45:34] It's such a wonderful, visual metaphor in my mind when you're not compromising, you're not settling on something that's a little bit easy, but you're finding that next alternative insight, that third option that might be out there, that one plus one equals three. Who, from what a wonderful idea.

[00:45:53] Mike Parsons: I, I gotta agree. And it's probably one of the most challenging of the habits. Don't you think? Yeah. [00:46:00] It's 

[00:46:00] Mark Pearson Freeland: a little bit more confronting. Isn't it's quite hard to sometimes work with people that you don't agree with. The tendency is to find and hang out with people that are very similar to you.

[00:46:12] Very because it's safe, it's safe and it's easy, but actually, particularly I think in work when you are. Value or as Stephen calls it, celebrate the differences in people and sidestep any of that kind of negative energy or those obstacles is around holiday would say, and you can get through it together.

[00:46:33] Wow. Can you just imagine the possibilities, that creative solutions that you might be able to come up with? Very hard and sometimes a little bit challenging, but the results as Steven would say those incremental moments would be far 

[00:46:46] Mike Parsons: greater. Yeah. And so I think it's really about getting comfortable with the fact that everyone's going to have a slight, at least a slightly different point of view.

[00:46:55] And why do you think we struggle with that? Like why I [00:47:00] think it's rare that we see this idea of real synergy as Covey. We put it, we don't see it a lot. People are often very stuck in the hand-to-hand combat of win-win right. Or win, lose, and beating people and getting their idea across the.

[00:47:16] Why do we, why do you think people struggled to have the courage to go for something special where together we're doing something very unique and magical? What why is this one? Plus one equals three equations. So damn hard. 

[00:47:31] Mark Pearson Freeland: I think it's because people might be afraid to be completely open. Yep. 

[00:47:37] Mike Parsons: True.

[00:47:38] Mark Pearson Freeland: So if you, unless you can't achieve what Steven's really calling out, unless you really harness those first three habits, you really have that mastery over yourself. You've got confidence. You've got awareness. Self-awareness I think once you can get yourself onto that openness level, then that collaboration the synergy[00:48:00] as habit, six tells us can really be explored.

[00:48:03] I don't know. I suspect the, what holds people back from really, exposing themselves to those Moments of synergy. There's moments of a difference is because they're not willing to do it. They want to be the smartest person in the room. They want to be the individual, whose idea is number one, as opposed to that one, plus one equals three, finding a solution together.

[00:48:31] That's what I suspect. But what do you recommend? 

[00:48:35] Mike Parsons: I think, yeah. Maybe I think a thread that really comes to me for effective people who just do the work and know their practice. I think if you don't act, if you haven't done the training and the homework, that's true. You're more reluctant to be open because you're actually not that confident that you actually know your stuff.

[00:48:53] Mark Pearson Freeland: Exactly. You're afraid because you kinda know in yourself I don't really know this. 

[00:48:59] Mike Parsons: Yeah.[00:49:00] The funny thing is nobody can know everything. So by just saying, Hey, I'm not sure I have all the answers, but I wonder if. How might we, that's the real courage. In the end you got to just do the work and know your craft, whatever you do, whether you work in finance, whether you're a builder, an architect, a Coker chef product builder, it doesn't matter.

[00:49:25] You gotta know your stuff, you gotta put in that work. But at a certain point, you're not going to have all of the answers and having done the work and knowing you've put your best effort in mentioned that you can build that confidence to synergize and say, look, let's go for something. Let's get a little uncomfortable.

[00:49:40] Let's be courageous here. Let's really go for something let's just not settle for. Okay. I think that's really the call out here. 

[00:49:48] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, it really is. And actually, I think it's a call-out for all seven habits, isn't it? Rather than just being okay with yourself and putting up with moments [00:50:00] of frustration with others, lacking moments of where you lack confidence, or maybe you're anxious as Dale Carnegie's books were showing us to overcome.

[00:50:09] I think all of these seven habits are Stephen Covey calling to us and saying, Hey, look, it doesn't have to be just, okay, you've got to be highly effective. You, or you can be highly effective if you're willing to be open and challenge yourself. And what we found in that first show episode 1, 2, 1 was all around self-mastery wasn't it was all around getting yourself onto that solid foundation and the three clips we've just heard all around.

[00:50:35] Teamwork, collaboration as well as communication and opening yourself up to the idea that your ideas could be better if you do collaborate. But as we've just been discussing Mike, it can be a little bit of a challenge for ourselves. And this seventh habit, the final habit of Stephen Covey's book, seven habits of highly effective people, I think demonstrates to you and I and our listeners, how we can [00:51:00] try each day to achieve this best version.

[00:51:04] This best practice is best way of collaborating and mastering ourselves. And the seventh habit is called sharpen the source. So the next clip we're going to hear from Stephen Covey is habit. Number seven, sharpen. The saw 

[00:51:18] Stephen Covey: Abbott seven is the habit, all renewal. What are you doing?

[00:51:24] Sign down this tree. I picked your time. I am. How long have you been doing it? Oh, how do you spend two, three hours? Oh, I bet. You're really painting. I say why don't you sharpen the saw to a busy sign dumb. How many here have ever been too busy driving? You didn't take time to get gas

[00:51:51] in physics. It's called the second law of thermodynamics. Everything breaks down. Entropy [00:52:00] becomes disordered. The opposite of sharpening. The saw is to leave it door until the blade breaks till the mind becomes doll, the spirit insensitive, the body flabby, where everything has gone to pot. The concept of sharpening the saw personally, interpersonally managerially, organizationally, the concept of continuous improvement guys in continuous learning forever getting better habit seven is the habit that focuses on production capability, habits, seven, if done right, automatically develops the other six habits [00:53:00] because it takes a high level of proactivity and a responsibility to consistently sharpen the saw.

[00:53:10] I do not know of one activity that has as great a leverage factor in life. This habit seven. What do I mean by leverage? See if you put the fulcrum in the middle and you put in one unit of effort here, you'll get out one unit of productivity here. If you move that fulcrum over, you can put in one unit of effort here and get out a hundred units of productivity over there.

[00:53:39] Habit seven moves the fulcrum over. You may only spend a few hours in an entire week, a week made up of 168 hours. And those few hours will affect the quality, the productivity, the satisfaction, the quality of relationships, the quality of [00:54:00] decision-making of every other hour. But the problem has habit seven lies in quadrant two.

[00:54:10] It is not our attempt. That's why most people neglect that they do it very unsystematically. They hit and miss on it. Sometimes they get imbalanced on it. They focus only one dimension. See basically there are four dimensions in life, the body, the mind, the spirit and relationships we call that the social emotional side.

[00:54:38] Social is our relationship with others. Emotional is our relationship with ourself. Those are basically the four dimensions of organizations as well. It has its economic side to produce the bottom line towards some mission within a certain value system. That is the spiritual side. [00:55:00] It must also have its culture of high trust.

[00:55:04] That's the social side in order to have empowerment in the development and use of people's talents as the mental side. So those are the four dimensions. If you study all of history and the psychology and philosophy, inevitably you'll find the same four dimensions constantly mentioned, but all four need to be attended to in a consistent and regular and balanced way in order to properly sharpen the saw 

[00:55:40] Mike Parsons: holy smoke is, Stephen Covey's.

[00:55:44] Knocking me off my chair, every clip. This stuff is so good, mark. He has catapulted into my top five men shot a gurus. I'm just saying, 

[00:55:55] Mark Pearson Freeland: yeah, I've got to admit that final clip from Stephen Covey, they're rounding [00:56:00] off the seven habits rounding off the two shows for me demonstrates why he belongs not only in the time of his classics, but Mike, he's got to be in the top five of the moonshots shows because his tips and habits, they just sing to us.

[00:56:16] Don't they? They 

[00:56:16] Mike Parsons: do. For me, this is healthy mind, healthy body for me. This is if you need to be good at work, you need to be good at home. This is about feeding. Supporting nourishing or the different facets of your being. And the interesting thing I reflect upon is as soon as COVID struck, I started running last year.

[00:56:39] And that was my way of having a little bit of freedom, but I felt that with all the challenges that, that brought in every part of my life, the one thing I could do was take control and get an enormous amount of exercise. I was just looking here cause it [00:57:00] made me think, so last year I either ran or ward 2,234 kilometers.

[00:57:10] And to put that in perspective in 2019, I only did 524. I, the only point I'm trying to make here is when I faced this great challenge. I, I didn't get COVID, I didn't get a cold or anything, but there was this a normal mental, social thing going on around me. The response I knew I had to do was I had to shop in the store, I had to get the body.

[00:57:34] Lots of exercise. Another one is if you're exercising a lot, you should take some sort of physical relief take a really good baths have turn off all your devices. Talk to your friends, be with your friends, catch up with your folks. Like you've got to go through that entire list.

[00:57:53] You've got to write the journal. You got to do the meditate. Like all of this system is a search for harmony between [00:58:00] those four quadrants that he mentioned, those four inter dependent things. And I think we always feel a bit off when one of them has been neglected. 

[00:58:09] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, you do. And I quite like the ownership by the way.

[00:58:13] Holy smokes. That's a lot of kilometers.

[00:58:16] I like how you've brought this back to the ownership. This is very, the physical workout or the physical exercise element is very consistent with what Tom Brady would tell us. It's very consistent with the concept of owning your physical reaction, like VIM Hoff as well. And it's true.

[00:58:38] You can, in an unpredictable situation, scenario, world context, you can own how your body is still stimulated. Can't you can go out and not only practice the physical work, but remember the mind. Can be worked out as well with journaling something. We talk about a lot on the show [00:59:00] that active self reflection feels to me, at least like that.

[00:59:05] When I journal, I give myself that mental workout because I'm reflecting on my interpretation of stuff. Following last week, show Mike, I was journaling away. And I was thinking about whether I had a proactive approach, whether I was thinking with the end in mind and whether I was starting with first, first things first.

[00:59:25] And that was really important to me because it was good to hand to go alongside the physical exercise and movement piece as well. Really considering that mental or spiritual, workout felt very valid to me. And I know that it's pretty valid to you as well. Isn't it?

[00:59:43] Mike Parsons: Yeah. And I would say I'm not an expert I'm at least I'm aware of these. Mind, body, soul, heart whatever you want to name them. As for me, I'm very aware of, if I am [01:00:00] pushing really hard with work I try to become aware of where the, this potential imbalance and I'm actively reviewing that.

[01:00:09] I would say the most practical tip I can give here is to name these specific actions and habits as daily tasks. This honestly is so useful even after doing it for years and years. For example, if you look at my to do list, which is my daily task manager, and while we're live here on the show, I'm going to go into my daily goals.

[01:00:35] I have journaling as a daily activity. Listening to a podcast, sleeping well time with my wife time with my son eating well, burning three and a half thousand kilojoules and breathing exercises. Those occur in my to do list every single day. And that's how I shop in the store is by making them that present in my workflow.[01:01:00] 

[01:01:00] In my task manager, they are set as recurring daily tasks every single day of the year. 

[01:01:06] Mark Pearson Freeland: That's fantastic. I'm looking at mine as well, Mike I've also got journaling and I've also got exercise. I've got it's something that I don't it's well overdue gratitude check-ins as well. Yes. 

[01:01:20] Mike Parsons: A very good exercise for journaling.

[01:01:22] Very good. Wow, mark. Holy smoke. This was just turned out to be one of the most epic shows we've ever done when you. 

[01:01:32] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah I, to be honest, we could have, we probably could have made it into three shows just to give our listeners a little bit more of a peek behind the curtain of how you and I try and replicate these habits in our own lives.

[01:01:47] We could have. Even tried to take our listeners on that journey, but I'm pleased at how we've been able to bring them into those two sections one, all about that mindset, that [01:02:00] foundational work on yourself. And then today's episode really about that activity on the social, as well as the emotional elements of collaboration.

[01:02:09] And ultimately this huge big call-out that Steven has that connects everything together, which is personal and continuous development. I think that's such a powerful book, the seven habits of highly effective people that it's going on tomorrow. My shelf mind. 

[01:02:27] Mike Parsons: It's pretty funny how we surprise ourselves that the classics really are classics.

[01:02:32] It's a bit ironic is that, 

[01:02:33] Mark Pearson Freeland: it shows similar to the seek first then to understand, seek first, to understand then to be understood you and I are learning out loud together on the show. We are looking to understand we're exposing ourselves into these different way these ways of working and the way of reacting to things with our listeners.

[01:02:53] So actually I like it. It's I think I hope our listeners feel it's pretty authentic. Yes, me too. Me 

[01:02:59] Mike Parsons: [01:03:00] too. Mark, here we are. I just want to say thank you for helping me wrestle the epic, the Titanic seven habits of highly effective people. It was pretty good. 

[01:03:13] Mark Pearson Freeland: I it's gotta be the top five, maybe top three.

[01:03:15] Yeah, actually, 

[01:03:17] Mike Parsons: mark, thanks again. And thank you to you. Our listeners, all the moonshot is all around the world. We are so grateful for your support, for your feedback, for your likes, your writings, your suggestions. We are really thankful for them. And today we can all be thankful together for Stephen Covey and his work, the seven habits of highly effective people.

[01:03:41] And this epic two episode journey started with self-mastery, where it was all about being proactive, focusing on that circle of influence. And then he challenged us habit. Number two, begin with the end in mind, think about our legacy. How will we be remembered? [01:04:00] And as we go into the world to do those as an effective individual, we need to put first things first, we need to set priorities.

[01:04:08] And here in this second episode, we have gone deep into the social mastery thinking win-win making it a win for you and those around you. And in order to do that, we need to. Stand them first. So when in doubt, shut up and listen, because if you do, you might uncover that magic formula one plus one equals three that's right.

[01:04:30] Synergy that combining of forces to do some magic and magic is powered by our being that's mind, body, soul, and spirit. You need to shop in that store and you will be able to go out into the world and be the very best version of yourselves. So that's it for the moonshots podcast. That's a wrap.