KEN ROBINSON: THE ELEMENT

EPISODE 179

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Mike Parsons: Hello, and welcome to dementia. It's podcast. It's episode 179. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons. I'm joined by the man with the plan, Mr. Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning. Ma'am. 

[00:00:13] Mark Pearson Freeland: Hey, good morning, Mike. And what an exciting show we've got for you and I? The moonshots family and all of our lessons today, as we near the end of our current series on creative.

[00:00:24] Mike Parsons: Can you believe it? And just to kind of mess with everybody's heads, mark, we say, this is the last episode on creativity, but it's going to be so much 

[00:00:34] Mark Pearson Freeland: more, huh? This one is a huge one. If we thought that all of the episodes so far within creativity, including Walt Disney and Jim Carrey web. Hollywood of powerhouses.

[00:00:45] We'll actually Mike, we're stepping out of the tinsel town and getting into education and insightful research with Mr. Or should I say, in fact, Mike, sir, Ken Robinson and his New York times [00:01:00] bestseller the element, how finding your passion changes everything and what 

[00:01:04] Mike Parsons: I think our promise to you. Our listeners today is that you will see in this amazing array of clips, that it really does change everything.

[00:01:15] When you find your passion, what you were designed to do your natural ability, the best version of yourself, whatever you want to call it today, we have a bunch of clips from sir Ken Robinson, where he talks about the power. Finding what comes naturally, what you're on this planet to do, how it can be expressed through creativity, purpose.

[00:01:40] It is so rich. It is way more than just an investigation of creativity. I think today is some mad combination of Elizabeth Gilbert's, Simon Sinek, maybe a bit of Stephen Covey thrown in there just to jazz it up. It is going to be so much fun. 

[00:01:58] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, there is, there's a real [00:02:00] blend of individuals and moonshots is within the work of sir, can I believe?

[00:02:04] And as we go on this journey with you, our listeners are understanding and dissecting different ways of thinking and frameworks and approaches across all of our library of moonshots is what you're really starting to see with Ken Robinson is the combination of a lot of those elements, Mike. We're starting to, like you say run into different theories and frameworks that perhaps we've seen and understood, and now plugging it all together.

[00:02:30] We're like inspectors. Aren't we detectives putting together the secret sauce behind finding your elements and passionate. 

[00:02:37] Mike Parsons: Oh yeah. And it's going to be a one hot spicy sauce today. You're so right. It's what we call the moonshots model. The model of the recurring patterns of what successful, great, amazing people do.

[00:02:51] And we're just trying to bottle it up so we can learn how to do it, how we can learn out loud together with you, our listeners. So we can just [00:03:00] really push it. We want. Be the best version of ourselves. We're not going to just take the status quo. We're not going to have a fixed mindset. We're going to use people like sir, Ken Robinson.

[00:03:11] And we're going to find our natural abilities. We going to find a best version of ourselves and more. I don't think we want to give too much away, but we are going to lead with the clip of all clips. We're about to play a clip that will I think we should have an advisory here, mark. Be careful. Make sure you're sitting down, making sure you're ready because this first clip is a story that will knock your socks off.

[00:03:43] Wait 

[00:03:43] Mark Pearson Freeland: a minute. Yeah, that's right. It's a great demonstration of circus. Rice sense of human Mike, but also demonstrating to us that age and occupation and no barrier to going out and finding your passion. So let's hear without further ado from sir, Ken helping you and I, and all others [00:04:00] find their elements today.

[00:04:02] Our 

[00:04:02] Sir Ken Robinson: kids give us all kinds of signals about who they are and what they're disposed to and what engages them and sensible parents and current. Often well-meaning parents discourage it because it doesn't sit with a conception of who these, what these kids should be doing. Now, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't do other things at school that we should only follow our blessed, that we should never do things that require effort that run against the grain.

[00:04:30] But part of our purpose is to become who we are and we become our best when we discover what it is we can do. And we have created archetypical pathways for people, many of whom simply rattle against the walls. Drop off altogether and think I'd want nothing to do with this. Look at the levels of disaffection, disengagement, and despair that many people feel because they haven't found anything that resonates with who they are.

[00:04:56] But the other important thing about the Bart story to me is this, it illustrates something [00:05:00] profound to me, which is that life is not linear. Our education systems are, but life is. When I went to school leave, the premise was if you worked hard and went to college and got a degree, you'd get a job for life.

[00:05:16] That was true. In the seventies, if you had a degree, you were guaranteed a job idea. You wouldn't have a job with a college degree was ridiculous. The only reason you wouldn't have a job if you had a degree, but if you didn't want a job and I left college in 1972, and I didn't want to.

[00:05:30] I didn't. I wanted to find myself, you could do this in the seventies fattiest day, so I decided to go. Where I thought I might be, and I didn't get to India. I got to London, whether are lots of Indian restaurants. So I got that.

[00:05:45] But once we still have people on this path, like the whole premise, our education system is you have to go to college. If you don't go to college, your life is over. And this is in the face of all the evidence. But some people never want to go to college. Some people go [00:06:00] to college and don't know what to do with themselves.

[00:06:01] Now, some people rattle a gut around the walls and go back home again to carry on playing video games. Some people go to college. That's you, the whole system is designed for those few people really? Oh, that relatively small group, this obsession with college is really important. I think to get our head trained, I was in Danville recently doing a book signing.

[00:06:20] I was signing a book. I didn't go to Danville by the right to sign one book. That would be pathetic, it wasn't like they rang from the publisher. That's quick. Somebody bought a book in Danville, we'll keep him talking. You get here fast, a throne and books were being sold.

[00:06:33] But I was telling this guy, he was in his late thirties, I'd say, and I said what do you do? And he sat on my fireman and I said how long have you been a fireman? He said, always, that's what I've always done. And I said, so when did you decide to be a. He said always he said I wanted to be a fireman.

[00:06:53] As soon as I got into elementary school, he said it was a problem because in elementary school, everybody wants to be a fireman.[00:07:00] He said, but I wanted to be a fireman. And he said, so when it got to the upper secondary school, it's a high school. And the junior and senior years, there was a big issue because everyone was applying to college and the school was saying, which college are you applying to?

[00:07:11] Everyone? I had to go to college. He said, I didn't want to go to college. I wanted to join the fire. And he said, I had this one teacher who ridiculed me in front of the whole class in the junior year. He said, you will never amount to anything. If you're throwing your life away. If this is all you're going to do to go and join the fire service, you said you could really do something.

[00:07:31] You could make something of yourself. You said I was angry, but also humiliated that. That's what he thought is that. Anyway, I was thinking about it as you were speaking earlier, is that because six months ago, I saved his life. He was in a car wreck and all unit was called out and I pulled him out and I gave him CPR and I saved his wife's life as well.

[00:07:52] He said, I think he thinks better off me. Now you see what I'm saying? That we all born with this immense gift of [00:08:00] diversity and imagination, creativity, but all particularly our educational systems. Stereotyped it and stifled a great deal of it. And this is a process we can't allow to endure. So when people talk about getting back to basics, my argument is we should get ready back to base and say what is it to be a person?

[00:08:22] What is it to be a human being? What kind of life do you want? What kind of life do you want for your. 

[00:08:27] Mike Parsons: What kind of life do you want? I think that might in fact be the question that we're asking as well. I doing, 

[00:08:34] Mark Pearson Freeland: it's a huge, a clip, first of all, let's just take it out and take a breath because what a charming speeding.

[00:08:43] I think that great insight about life not being linear was a real hard hitting truth because a lot of us do expect our lives to follow a certain pattern. And when we do step back from that, you think who told me that should be the. [00:09:00] Why should it be the pattern for every single one of us, but I think you're right, Mike, the big important question is that, that final one that we often ask ourselves, maybe it's late at night.

[00:09:11] Maybe it's when we're doing our journals. What kind of life do you want? And where did, where do we start? 

[00:09:18] Mike Parsons: The fact that you asked the question is already a great start. 

[00:09:24] Mark Pearson Freeland: You're right. If you've got the awareness and the admission that it's something you can own and therefore you can control. I think you're already slightly down that path of understanding it and figuring out on you because you're then putting yourself in.

[00:09:43] Situation where you can start to a identify and maybe be proactively action, certain behaviors that drive you to uncovering that passion or that reason for being 

[00:09:55] Mike Parsons: absolutely. And I think what he goes on to [00:10:00] do is tell one of the most powerful stories I have heard about listening. To your heart, mind your soul about what you are designed to do and pursuing that.

[00:10:17] And how incredibly poignant and touching that the man who told him, you're crazy. You're not going to amount to anything. He ended up saving his life, doing the very thing that teacher criticized and oh, by the way, saved his wife. As well, 

[00:10:37] Mark Pearson Freeland: make something of yourself. It's probably, he probably regretted it by the end.

[00:10:41] I think it's a really encouraging story. Isn't it? Because it makes for me, when I think about passion, finding your way, identifying what kind of life you want to live, not only as Ken would put it, is it orientated perhaps or [00:11:00] controlled by. Some of the lessons you learn at school and maybe it's influenced by your friends.

[00:11:06] What are they doing? Therefore, what should I be doing? I think your ego comes into that a little bit as well. And I think what's really reinforcing within that clip from sir, Ken, just then about the firefighter instead of him following that path, following his friends, following the teachers and following that linear path that so can identify instead he's saying no, just do what.

[00:11:30] I'm not going to be influenced by others. And I think that's such a nice stoic demonstration of following the gifts that you believe you have and the life that you want to go and live, and to then be in a situation where you do get not rewarded, but you are utilizing the skills that you've trained for and you end up saving someone's life.

[00:11:52] Isn't that a great reinforcement of making the right decision that's 

[00:11:56] Mike Parsons: appropriate for you? Oh, it really [00:12:00] is. And I think what we would encourage everyone to do when they hear that story is to. Listen to the feeling when either a you're doing something and get over the initial hardship kind of barriers.

[00:12:21] But if something's really just not for you. And on the other hand, Some things that come naturally, some things that speak to you just enjoy almost a flow state. You just feel like this just comes to me naturally and you're compelled and curious to it. You think about it even when you're not doing it, it's about listening to those signals, interpreting them and having the capacity to say, what's my purpose.

[00:12:48] Why am I here? And how can I live today in line with that purpose? And I think. I think this is the book. If your, if you want to [00:13:00] listen to those signals inside of yourself, if you want to pursue the question of purpose, what you were born to do, why you are here and having the courage to go down that path.

[00:13:15] This is the book, because I think for a lot of us, we might not know the path is there. And if we sense it, that path looks rather dark and murky, doesn't it? 

[00:13:24] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah. Because it's possibly a path that's untrodden particularly when it comes to us in our lives, the parts that are well-trodden are the ones that, again, our family maybe have gone down or our friends or well-known individuals in the media.

[00:13:38] So it feels a little bit more achievable, but you're right, Mike, when. Start to think. Okay, maybe I'll lean towards something I haven't done before, or that is murky territory. It might be deep water, beware the souls who go that way. So I think it's just a fascinating and really encouraging story that if somebody taking ownership and trying to be that best [00:14:00] version of themselves, 

[00:14:01] Mike Parsons: Totally N before we play this next clip from Ken, where he starts to break it down and we're just going to get into some serious learning together.

[00:14:09] I think I tell you who's on the right path, mark. I'll tell you who's on the right track. Who is prepared to go down the murky path of being the best version of yourself. And that is our members. 

[00:14:22] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, that's right. Our Patrion members who all receive that lunar power dose of good karma and thanks as well as the achievement of going down that murky path and learning the best version of themselves includes Bob and Niles, John and Terry nylon modeling candy.

[00:14:40] Atmar Tom and mark module. Rodrigo Yasmeen. Daniella Liza said Mr. Bonduelle, Maria, Paul Berg, and Kalman and net David, Joe, crystal Evo, Chrystia, and hurricane brain and Samuel Allah. My every week it seems to get it's just that little bit longer and I get [00:15:00] a little bit more breathless. 

[00:15:02] Mike Parsons: It really does.

[00:15:03] And pretty soon you're going to have to take three breaths and we shouldn't forget that. If you become a member. You get access to our mentor master series. If you're a member, if we hit 50 members or what, I should be more of a growth mindset. When we hit 50 members, mark, we will launch. Our first merge and I'm talking teas and posters and all that kind of good stuff, but we got to get to 50 and I'm thinking we can do some cool stuff around the year of JFK's moonshot speech got some ideas there.

[00:15:41] I got some when you think about shooting for the moon and the galaxy, you can imagine some cool stuff that you could do around that. So nice gifts that you could give friends as well. We're at 30, we need 50, right? Matt? 

[00:15:53] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah. We're not too far away. It's going well. And I think, again, just thanks to our current members and again, [00:16:00] big shout out to all of the listeners who want to take part, not only in getting some good old merchant swag.

[00:16:07] I certainly Mike, I'm looking forward to getting a moonshot hoodie, particularly as Sydney's getting that little bit chillier and this time of year. Yeah. But I think getting a access to all of our master series is a pretty good exchange. 

[00:16:22] Mike Parsons: So do I, so go on to moonshots.io, click on the big members button, join up.

[00:16:27] It's the cost of one cup of coffee. A month and can support us, help us base and bills be you get a whole bonus show three, you get us to the tipping point of swag. This is something you got to do. So head over to moonshots.io and lock the element and unlock how you might find your passion and change everything.

[00:16:52] But we can do that right now, too. And let's do that. So Ken Robinson really breaking down the thinking behind V [00:17:00] element, the 

[00:17:00] Mark Pearson Freeland: element 

[00:17:02] Sir Ken Robinson: was not intended to be a how to book its intention ready. It was to encourage a different type of conversation, because I believe that this is a powerful, important argument for several reasons.

[00:17:17] One of them is economic. We, I believe make scandalous misuse of people's abilities. And we throw away in squad. Huge amounts of natural talent and passionate enthusiasm. And you can see the evidence that everywhere people are disengaged, detached disaffected, but when people connect with who they rarely are, the whole story shifts.

[00:17:39] So it's also important for personal fulfillment for people living a life. That means something I can't imagine why you would live a life. If you could avoid it, that didn't mean anything to you and yet many people do. And it's also important for cultural reasons for health and strength of. So this book was about that.

[00:17:56] And it has quite a few things to say about education and why [00:18:00] it is that education wastes a lot of people's natural abilities and it does, but also my people get lost in organizations and why we can't afford to do that anymore. But naturally what people do say is this is great, but how do I find my element?

[00:18:12] So the new book is about that, and I think it's too, it's a two way journey. One of them is. And in the end, you have to spend time with yourself and listen to the signals that you give yourself. People know the things they're drawn to things they would like to do very often. I don't mean they always do, but very often there's things in our lives that we wish we'd try.

[00:18:35] We've turned away from it, or we're encouraged not to go there and there are obstacles or barriers and other people present to us sometimes. So powerful. It is living with yourself and listening to those voices and making a list of them more. If you prefer a collage of some smarter, but some audit of yourself, and maybe that's a meditative process for some people, but you can't avoid that.

[00:18:56] But the second is an outer journey. You need to try things because if [00:19:00] you don't know, if you don't try things, you will never know. Many of the people I've talked to in the book might never discover that talent, but for a mentor who pushed them or an opportunity that came their way, which they took. And a lot of us live in encased habits of practice and thought, and we can't break out to them.

[00:19:18] So the book is really an encouragement to break out of it. 

[00:19:21] Mark Pearson Freeland: And encouragement to break out and try it as well as encourage the conversation to be started. Again, breakdown Mike of the element from sir, Ken, I think I'm now really getting into the mindset. There's a can of hows around this book, which has encouraged.

[00:19:39] Those new conversations. There's news way to thinking in order to become that little bit more, shall we say comfortable or confident in the path that you choose? 

[00:19:49] Mike Parsons: Yeah. So let's go insanely practical right now because we've heard that amazing story of the firefighter.[00:20:00] Who saved the life of the teacher that criticized him from wanting to be a firefighter.

[00:20:06] And now we've heard from so can we need to reflect don't miss out on your natural talents. So how do we do this? I'm just getting straight into it. And I think I'm just going to throw some stuff at you and you tell me what you think is a great place to start. I feel like you, you need to have.

[00:20:32] Some sort of checklist or assessment of where you are right now. I think you have to have the ability just to I don't know, assess where you're at. Do you feel. That you are resilient in the face of a challenge. Do you, are you surrounded by good people? Do you think positive thoughts?

[00:20:58] Do you feel in control of [00:21:00] your life? Do you have, do you feel confident that you're on the right track? Do you have clear goals that you can see you're making progress towards. Can you be grateful? Are you listening and learning? Are you taking on a criticism and changing your behavior? Are you investing time?

[00:21:19] Not only in your work, but your health, family, and friends, these would be ways at which I would try and find out if I'm. On the right track. And then more specifically, then I would get into some Myers-Briggs skills analyze that will get you more into, what kind of person are you in and where might you find like a great fit in terms of a career or a lifestyle?

[00:21:50] I don't know. I'm just thinking like, how do we actually. Embody what sir, Ken is talking about. How do we work out where we're at and ask ourselves, are [00:22:00] we serving our natural talents? Are we pursuing a natural path or are we ignoring those signals? What do you think? 

[00:22:07] Mark Pearson Freeland: I think you're onto, you're definitely on the right path then and you've stepped away from, or maybe you're embracing the murkiness, but you've got a good head torch on because what I like about the checklist and the mantras, you were just going through.

[00:22:22] Is that it encourages an ongoing revisitation of those signposts let's continue the metaphor in order to see that progress, because I think what was, so Ken's really calling out is you've got to listen to the internal concept. That's voice that's. Reflection on yourself. That's listening to yourself as well as that outer piece, which is trying something new, finding a mentor, taking their advice and so on.

[00:22:51] I think if you take those in isolation, so internal reflection and external stimulus, let's say [00:23:00] without being able to. Identify the journey that you've been on and where you were at point a, which was, let's say six months ago on B. Let's say that's where I am now. You're not going to be able to. Identify whether or not you're you found your element, your passion or not, because you've just changed some of the goalposts.

[00:23:20] And I really like where you're going with that, which I think is encouraging all of us to not only ask ourselves those questions, but honestly, answer them in the format of that. Yeah. Or maybe it's as practical as a physical checklist, similar to the Myers-Briggs or the personality tests actually marking something down on a point-based system is quite interesting as well, because you can.

[00:23:47] Try it, maybe it's every quarter, every three months, that's right 

[00:23:51] Mike Parsons: changing. And there's a couple of frameworks around designing your life. And whether you talk eeky [00:24:00] guy hedgehog, they're all basically looking at an intersection between the following things. So if you have. Got some curiosity on how finding your passion, your natural talents can really change your life.

[00:24:18] I think the checklist kind of looks like this, mark. I think what you want to be able to do is say, what am I naturally good at? What can I get paid for? What do I really love doing? And what are my what are the world's needs in terms of the mission? What does the world actually need? So you might say that's the intersection between passion, profession, vocation, and mission.

[00:24:44] There's the icky guy model, which is similar. It's basically what we're talking about here is an intersection between what gives you natural energy? What comes naturally? What does the world naturally need [00:25:00] and what can when you do so there is value in doing this from those around you without making it too simple.

[00:25:09] I think this is, if you find the things that speak to you, This is why the payoff to sir Ken's book is how finding your passion changes everything. 

[00:25:21] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, exactly. It does change everything. And I think if you can find that piece of passion, let's put it into a practical situation here. If you can find something that you are good at.

[00:25:35] And you therefore feel, for me, Mike, if I found something I was really good at, in a work situation, how does that make me feel? I feel confident. I feel confident to talk to others, to express my point of view, to listen to others. And to maybe be the best version of myself in that given situation.

[00:25:55] And when I don't feel like I'm very good at something, how do I feel? I feel insecure. [00:26:00] Maybe I want to be a bit quieter. Maybe I'm going to be defensive or passive aggressive, and that's not something that's going to be relevant or useful in a working situation. Isn't it. And instead if you. Leaning towards the things that I think as Ken was.

[00:26:16] So Ken was saying in the first clip, he's not discouraging us from trying something new. In fact, in that second clip, he's saying, go out and try something new. You embrace that difficulty and see whether it works or not. But once you do start to hone down into the thing that you already. Imagine that feeling you're going to have, imagine how efficient, productive, and pleasant you're going to be to work.

[00:26:40] Because you're going to be in that best version of yourself in that work situation. 

[00:26:45] Mike Parsons: And so like following this line of thinking, let's say we were using, so Ken's inspiration here and we're trying to find our element and let's say you've got a hunch about things. Come naturally [00:27:00] and things that you care about.

[00:27:03] I say start small prototype, do something on the weekend. I think one of the common things people do is if they, first of all, people often don't pursue that curiosity. I think that's the first one, but the second one is if they do, sometimes they take too big of. They go all in and just like any sort of health and exercise goal, they set the first objective so big that it like crushes you because you've just taken on too much.

[00:27:35] Start small prototype experiment, do something on the weekends or at night you maybe it's just a little hobby. Pursue it. I think. More than anything. I can't tell you, Mike, how many times in life things have grabbed my curiosity and I have not skewed them and write it down.

[00:27:57] Don't let that at that moment of curiosity, [00:28:00] go and make a commitment to coming back to it. Try it, read something go and experiment. Investigate. Don't. Don't be a zombie and just trudge along and just do what you think everyone else expects of you find your element. That's the call to action.

[00:28:18] Isn't it? Mine. It's 

[00:28:18] Mark Pearson Freeland: funny. The people that stand out the most for me when I've collaborated with people, when I've met them socially, the ones who I almost admire the most and I'm most interested, to speak. Are the ones who do something a little bit different, so they might have unusual hobbies.

[00:28:36] And I think to coin the word you were just using them. That curiosity and sometimes in our lives, you're right. We'll run into something that we're curious about and we think, oh, that will be really fun to do. And then what happens? The business as usual kind of gets in the way and you almost forget about it or you deprioritize it.

[00:28:55] You're right. If you have the ownership around writing it down, [00:29:00] coming back to it later. As I know that you do, Mike, we might put it in our to do list and put a time in our, to do list to research it, or maybe give it a go for half an hour on the weekend, whatever it might be. Let's say it's swimming or running or just learning a new skill at work.

[00:29:19] Doing that just for that little piece of time will then give you the confidence over time to pursue it more. Like you say, Mike, with exercise, whether it's running or swimming within the first either couple of K or running, or within the first five or 10 minutes of swimming, things get a little bit uncomfortable and you want to turn away from it.

[00:29:38] But actually the truth is if you get past that little bit of a blocker, you start to realize, actually I am enjoying this. Habit or hobby or curiosity, whatever you want to call it. And I think that's a really interesting point of life. If you can actually get past the blockers and actually start to live those experiences, it can be a [00:30:00] lot more, can be a lot of.

[00:30:01] Mike Parsons: Totally. So on that note, I think it's time to get into the, how tos were so can, so let's have a listen to, so Ken talking about creativity and how to make it a habit. 

[00:30:15] Sir Ken Robinson: The first of them is imagination. Imagination to me is the key to everything it is. I believe what's distinctive about humanity. We might talk about this and see if you agree, but I put this to you.

[00:30:30] Imagination is the ability to step outside of your current space to bring to mind things that aren't present to our senses with imagination. Go backwards to the past. In fact, you have a past with imagination and not just one pass, but multiple possible paths. The whole process of history is the reinterpretation revisiting the past and trying to see it differently.

[00:30:59] If [00:31:00] it were just a catalog of dates and events, there would be no discipline for history. They'd just be bookkeepers. History is a contest. Isn't it for meaning that th the discipline, but you can also step outside your. Way of seeing things and enter somebody else's consciousness virtually you can empathize with people.

[00:31:18] You can try and see things from that perspective and you can visit the future with imagination. I don't think you can predict the future. Truthfully, there are some things you can predict when Holly's comments coming back or when the next eclipse will be. You can predict inanimate possibilities, but you can't put it much in the human field for reasons that we'll come on to after the brave.

[00:31:40] Imagination is the heart and soul of this whole thing. If you have, if you take a young child into the garden at night and point to the moon, the child will look at the moon. If you take your dog into the garden and point to the moon, the dog will look at your [00:32:00] finger one day, quizzically like. And why'd you keep doing this.

[00:32:07] And the thing is that we all born as human beings with this expensive sense of reference with the imagination. And it's why, although we're probably evolving at the same rate, biologically as every other form of life on earth. I can't imagine where nature's last word. Can you, I hope not.

[00:32:24] Cause there's some stuff that needs to be salted, but biologically we're probably moving at the same rate, but culturally. Y in a different category from everything else on us on, wait, if you have a dog, you don't have to keep checking in with dogs to you to see watching, culturally what's happening with you people at the moment, I said it's pretty much the same stuff ready that we've always done.

[00:32:44] But with human beings, there's always something new because we have these, this palette, creativity is a step on, as I say, creativity is putting your imagination to. To be crave. You have to do something. You can be imaginative all day long and never do [00:33:00] anything, but to be creative, you do things. It's a very practical process and it can be anything we'll come on to it.

[00:33:07] So one show where defining creativity is applied imagination, but let me be more specific. I define it as the process of having original ideas. The tab value. The process found originally it is valuing and the three terms match. It's a process. It's not an event. And you can understand the, manage the process.

[00:33:26] It's about originality and it's about making critical judgments of whether this work is any good. All creative processes are intermingled with value judgments, and that's critically important because you have to know which values to apply and why to what sort of work. Helping children draw my five-year-old kids.

[00:33:45] You have to apply relevant criteria to their drawings once that are relevant to their development. It wouldn't be right with it. It's like a five-year-old kid is drawing and dragged into the Sistine chapel and say, this is okay, but check this out, ready. [00:34:00] And don't waste my time. You have to 

[00:34:01] Mark Pearson Freeland: apply what's relevant.

[00:34:04] Sir Ken Robinson: Process Aboriginality and value innovation. I think I was putting good ideas into practice. It's the process of implementing original ideas. 

[00:34:13] Mark Pearson Freeland: Mike, that is a huge clip. Isn't it? This is so Ken breaking down the DNA of creativity, which is obviously the series that we're in right now, as well as giving us again, that kind of call to action around imagination and fundamentally how to bring new ideas to life.

[00:34:32] What a powerful, interesting. 

[00:34:34] Mike Parsons: Yeah. And isn't it interesting that he specifically talks about imagination, apply creativity done. And it is, and it's not Naval gazing. I can't stress how we are learning that it is. Whether you look at great athletes, great artists, great entrepreneurs. They're biased to doing something [00:35:00] every single day.

[00:35:01] Continuous refinement, continuous execution set differently. Nobody is waiting to be zapped by an aha moment. And they're perfect at that. It is hard work, trumps talent every single time. There's no one moment. It's all about continuous iterative processes to find to refile. The best version of yourself.

[00:35:31] Like to me, the pattern is very strong there. 

[00:35:33] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah. I, 100% agree whether it's somebody like a Tom Brady or Michael Jordan, they are not just waking up in the morning, walking down to the core. Or the field and just naturally talented, are they, I think that natural talent might last for a bird.

[00:35:50] It will take you so long, but to be truly great and be that best version of yourself, it is that process is so Ken's calling out a managed [00:36:00] process of identifying or. A new way of doing things, stepping outside, as he was saying and creating something new, that's something you could be a product could be a way of thinking, or it could be a brand new move on the court, whatever it is then into that application, that execution actually bring it to life.

[00:36:19] Exactly. Like Walt Disney. We were hearing from Walt Disney, just a couple of shows ago and the beginning of our creativity series of taking an idea and actually creating it, bringing it to life, applying it, and then into the third bucket or third strand of DNA from, so Ken that judgment piece, looking at it with a lens of value.

[00:36:40] Is it good? Is again just a natural book. To creativity, isn't it. It's 

[00:36:47] Mike Parsons: wonderful. And I'll tell you a great way to express your creativity is with your. Pointing your thumbs up or perhaps even writing a review mark. Oh, 

[00:36:58] Mark Pearson Freeland: talking about being [00:37:00] in your element. If listeners and members want to get into their element and help the moonshot show, continue to educate and learn out loud ourselves, as well as our listeners from around the world, pop along listeners to your podcasting app of choice, Spotify, apple podcasts, and leave us a rating or review.

[00:37:21] Mike. We've spoken about it before, but it's amazing. How much of a difference that rating or review makes for the moonshot show? Getting out there? Yeah. Yes. 

[00:37:29] Mike Parsons: So if you've been enjoying this show today, or maybe you're a regular listener and if you haven't have, if you are yet to get, shall we say to becoming a member, maybe a first step is give us a rating or review in your podcast app of choice.

[00:37:47] We would deeply appreciate it. We'd be very grateful because. This is how we get the word out. It was by doing this that we've gone from 50 to 50,000 listeners a month. It's thanks to you. [00:38:00] Sharing, liking, reviewing, commenting the show. It's a big part of how we can grow the audience. We can find more moonshot as who want to learn out loud together and be the very best version of themselves.

[00:38:12] So come on. If you're listening on that app right now, just flick the screen open. Go in, hit the thumbs up, maybe typing a little review. If you're on apple podcast app, we would so appreciate it. And it fills me with Goodwill, maybe even a touch of love for you. So it's only appropriate that we talk about love and talent from the book of sir Ken Robinson, the element, and to do that, we're going to listen to one of our absolute favorites, which is Brian Johnson from optimum.

[00:38:44] The next is point of these two things. What you love. And what you're good at what you love and what you're good at, right at that nexus point of view of doing something so much, maybe you'd even pay to do [00:39:00] it. And you're good at it. You have a talent for it. You put those two together. You have passion, you have the element, sir.

[00:39:07] Ken's idea is, look, we all need to discover our element. Not only for our own personal fulfillment, but for the world needs more people who have come along. By discovering this nexus point of what we totally love to do and what we're really good at. That's how we're going to be able to serve the world most profoundly.

[00:39:26] Now, I like to add a third little circle here often and talk about what the world needs and what it will pay for. So when we talk about how to discover our purpose, I love to lean into Jim Collins, his work who wrote good to great built to last and a bunch of other great business books. And he's talks about something called the hedgehog concept, which is basically these three ideas.

[00:39:50] What do you love to do again so much? You'd pay to do it fires you up time. Evaporates. It's just you doing what you absolutely did. What are you [00:40:00] good at? And Colin says, what are you so good at the, you could in fact, be among the best in the world that great businesses are focused on what they love to do and what they can think, what they think they can be the best in the world at.

[00:40:14] Mark Pearson Freeland: Mike, you were touching upon a couple of these frameworks that Brian Johnson's touching on in that clip a little bit earlier, the headshot concept, as well as eeky guy, I think really what it's coming down to is that the element. This passion, this nexus point of good and enjoyment of your life is really about finding flow.

[00:40:35] Isn't it. It's finding a bit of me hygiene semi high, and the idea of being in your element, your focus of doing something that you're pretty good at and doing it to the best of your ability and just being in that moment of flow. Isn't it? 

[00:40:49] Mike Parsons: Oh my gosh. We are we're onto some of my favorite subjects.

[00:40:53] So yet it's flow where things where you're just in the zone, I think [00:41:00] what sir, Ken Robinson is doing is going to the underlying conditions in order to get that. And he's even going to the first principle of asking, what are you born to do? What is your natural talent? What comes to you so naturally?

[00:41:15] As Brian said, what could you be the best in the world app? Now? All of whether it's the hedgehog concept or icky guy, these are just frameworks that help you get that out. Definitely look at the hedgehog concept. Jim Collins. We've got lots of episodes on him. Check that out. Icky guy.

[00:41:32] Fantastic book. Totally get that and framework as well. So just search that up. We'll have links to all of these in the show notes. The other one is Kaizen it's also inspired from from Japan as the same as icky guy. There's obviously this idea of Zen. What's really interesting is that there are other philosophies from different countries like the Danes have [00:42:00] this philosophy that a bit icky guy light, which is called he get a C you can go and check that out.

[00:42:06] There's many good bodies of work that will give you checklists and frameworks really to find. When you're in your element when you're experiencing flow. One of the books that I think can really help you, that we've talked about and done a whole episode on is Dale Carnegie's, how to stop worrying and start living.

[00:42:28] And he goes to. The linearity of what we're expected to do in life and how to overcome the challenges with that. So there you go. There are mark, there is so many ways in that can unlock the best version of yourself. I think once you've determined that you want to get into. And ask these questions.

[00:42:49] What's the intersection between your passion, your purpose, where you can get paid for only good things can come 

[00:42:55] Mark Pearson Freeland: of it. Don't you think mark? Yeah, I totally agree. And in fact, we are so passionate about this [00:43:00] topic, Mike, that you and I, and the moonshots family, we've created a master series on this very topic, which is available for those patron members, as well as subscribers and members on Spotify and apple podcasts, where if you want to go even deeper, We've mentioned a few frameworks, a few books there, but if you want to hear from the likes of Simon Sinek, Tim Tapper, Shiro, Ron holiday as well as mark Manson, finding your purpose head on over to moonshots.io, hit that subscribe button and you could access to episodes.

[00:43:34] Which was a couple of shows ago on finding your purpose as well as all of the other. I think we're up to 11 now, Mike master series episodes, where we go deep into topics, just like this on purpose and element. 

[00:43:48] Mike Parsons: Wow. Wow. So let's just do a quick recap on where we are right now. We obviously. We kicked it off with that epic firefighter story, which I'm just going to tell this like a hundred million times [00:44:00] is such a great story.

[00:44:02] And really, it was a story of someone who found their element. They pursued maybe that intersection between profession, passion, mission, and vocation. They did. They found what they were designed to do in life. And it's all about imagination applied and using these to expand on these, to use these concepts like love and talent as well, finding what you love, finding what you're naturally talented at.

[00:44:31] And mark, we are just going to bring all of this home with this final clip. Why don't you set it 

[00:44:36] Mark Pearson Freeland: up for us? That's right. This is the perfect real bookend Mike, because at the very beginning we heard from Sarah Henry. The topics, the focuses within this book, the element, and he touches upon the idea of education and how important it is that our schools embrace kids' creativity, the way that they approach things.

[00:44:58] And rather than getting caught into that [00:45:00] well-trodden path, like the the college versus firefighter, we need to be open. So let's hear from Ken now, bookend the show and close us out with a clip, all about creativity and. My contention 

[00:45:13] Sir Ken Robinson: is all kids have tremendous talents and we squander them pretty ruthlessly.

[00:45:17] I had a great story recently. I love trying to get another little girl who was in a drawing lesson. She was six and she was at the back drawing. And the teacher said this little girl, hardly ever paid attention. And then this drawing lesson she did, and the teacher was fascinated. She went over to, and she said, what are you drawing?

[00:45:33] And the girl said, I'm drawing a picture of God. And the teacher said, but nobody knows what God looks. And the girl said they would in a minute, kids will take a chance if they don't know they'll have a go, they're not frightened of being wrong. Now I don't mean to say that being wrong is the same thing as being creative.

[00:45:57] What we do know is if you're not prepared to be wrong, [00:46:00] you'll never come up with anything original. If you're not prepared to be wrong. And by the time they get to be adults, most kids have lost that capacity. They have become frightened of being wrong. And we run our companies this, by the way, we stigmatize mistakes.

[00:46:15] And we're now running national education systems where mistakes are the worst thing you can make. And the result is that we are educating people out of their creative capacities. If you think about the whole system of public education around the world is a protracted process of university entrance and the consequences that many highly talented, brilliant creative people think that.

[00:46:37] Because the thing they were good at school wasn't valued or was actually stigmatized. And I think we can't afford to go on that way. The castle one said this, he said that all children are born artists. The problem is to remain an artist. As we grow up, I believe this passionately that we don't grow into creativity.

[00:46:54] We grow and Tibet, or rather we get educated. We have to be [00:47:00] careful now that we use this gift wisely. And the only way we'll do it is by saying our creative capacities for the richness they are and seeing our children for the hope that they are and our task is to educate their whole wellbeing so they can face the future.

[00:47:15] By the way, we may not see this. But they will. And our job is to help them make something of it. Wow. 

[00:47:23] Mike Parsons: Wow. Wow. I just don't grow out of creativity and what's fascinating is we hear about the natural, intuitive nature of kids and their minds and creativity, but to go a little tangental, do you remember.

[00:47:40] We were doing a episode in our health series, mark, where we talked about stretching and there was a, I'm going to test you here. Do you remember the English chap that we studied, who talked about the fact that we forget how. Sit properly, how kids are naturally [00:48:00] very flexible and physically they can put their legs behind their heads and do all this stuff, but we forget how to take care of our body.

[00:48:08] Do you remember who they were? 

[00:48:09] Mark Pearson Freeland: I want to say Patrick McCowen, but I think he was all about oxygen. 

[00:48:15] Mike Parsons: Let's see if this kind of inspiration, Frampton, Roger friends, and that's it. That's it. But isn't this fascinating, Ken Robinson. And Roger Frampton. One takes something from the mind and the heart. The other one takes something from the body to make the point of how perfect we are as little children and how we lose sight of our creativity, how we lose our physical flexibility.

[00:48:42] I was just struck as I was listening to that. It's amazing how it's all about holding onto these gifts that we are born with. And 

[00:48:50] Mark Pearson Freeland: I think. I love that connection to Roger Franson and the flexible body book. And I think you're totally right. Much like a confidence. I [00:49:00] think this connection that so Ken is making to creativity.

[00:49:04] So confidence, to try something new. Roger Fenton to stay flexible. So Karen's now connecting it with creativity as well. I think this is something as he says that you grow out if you fall into the easiest path and we've spoken about this a lot on the show, Mike haven't, we, you find the path of least resistance in life.

[00:49:24] It's quite hard to then get off it. And I love this idea of almost reflecting as, so Ken was saying in the very beginning of the show, reflecting on what it is that kind of gets us moving. Mike, you said the word earlier that I want to come back to what gets us curious. And if you can identify those reflect on them and start to maybe lean towards them, then maybe you do start to fall back into that pattern of being a curious and confident individual who's a little bit more inverted, commerce, childlike, and willing to go and take those risks.

[00:49:58] Mike Parsons: Totally. And [00:50:00] for me, That I'm holding on to your, to that creativity you had as a kid. To me that is just such a strong wake up call that. We need to go back to this essence. He, cane calls it the element. This is where the truth is. And it's we just strayed from it.

[00:50:24] And what Ken's book does is it brings us back to it just like icky guy, just like Kaizen, all those, the hedgehog framework, all of these things are means to get back to your essentially. Element your essential self. How powerful is that? 

[00:50:40] Mark Pearson Freeland: Enormous. And I think it's really in line with that key moonshots concepts mantra way of thinking, Mike, which is to go out and give it a go challenge.

[00:50:49] The status quo take ownership of what it is that you go and do. And for me, that final clip there, which is encouraging us to not grow out of curiosity and not be [00:51:00] afraid to try something new, reminds me of. Big people we've had that we've covered on the show, including somebody like Elon mask, whereby unless you're willing to give it a go and maybe to be wrong.

[00:51:11] You're never going to know whether that way of thinking is right or not. So like the girl in that final story of drawing the picture of God, Hey, great. Give it a go. It doesn't matter. It's the first time that you've done it. And again, it reminds me of Elizabeth Gilbert with big magic. No matter whether it's been done before or not, it's going to be the first time that 

[00:51:30] Mike Parsons: you've done it.

[00:51:31] Yeah. Really powerful. Isn't it. So much inside of this body of work almost wraps around a lot of the moonshots model, the moonshots, thinking it touches upon everything from purpose to creativity designing your life what a wonderful body of work from, sir, Ken Robinson, 

[00:51:50] Mark Pearson Freeland: the elements.

[00:51:51] I think it was a perfect bookend to our creativity series has really proven that you don't have to be in a particular [00:52:00] part of your life. You can be a child or you can be a little bit more mature. You can be in any occupation. Creativity is something that as long as you have the ability to follow that process of imagination and application and judgment, it's encouraging, isn't it?

[00:52:14] That's really what I'm taking 

[00:52:16] Mike Parsons: and which of the little. Nuggets that we discussed today have stuck most for you. 

[00:52:22] Mark Pearson Freeland: You know what? I think the firefighters story is just too good. I think just that classic insight that somebody has strayed away from the path giving it a go, because they're passionate about it and hearing that it's been successful.

[00:52:39] That for me kind of fist pumping moment. Almost. What about you, Mike? Which one is which nugget are you taking away from today? 

[00:52:45] Mike Parsons: I love icky guy, Kaizen and hedgehog, but I am with you 100%. Mark. The firefighter clip was a bond Stormer. I almost, just as a side note production meeting right now, we should do [00:53:00] five clips.

[00:53:02] From the 200, when we get to our 200 show or something, we should do five clips that are the best five clips out of what would have been over a thousand. And I think the firefighter one is right there. Oh 

[00:53:16] Mark Pearson Freeland: yes. I think I agree. I think I agree. Maybe even coupled with a clip from Matthew McConaughey. I'm turning down the oh yes.

[00:53:27] The jobs as well. 

[00:53:28] Mike Parsons: Oh yes. And maybe we do it live in video. So people have to put up with our ugly fastest for one time out of 200. 

[00:53:37] Mark Pearson Freeland: There you go. Listeners, hearing us come on. With ideas on the fly. So let us know if you agree. 

[00:53:44] Mike Parsons: All right, mark. Listen, thank you to you and thank you to you.

[00:53:48] Our listeners and our members, because today was show 179, where together with sir Ken Robinson, we looked at his book, his tome, the [00:54:00] element, what a book indeed. And the story started with the clip of all clips that firefighter. Who followed his path, despite all of the humiliation and ended up saving the life of one of the people that humiliated him.

[00:54:16] Wow. Wow. Wow. And behind that is this idea from sir Ken Robinson, that life is not fixed. It is. About a growth mindset to find your element, to find your passion and your purpose, and the way you do that is imagination applied. And as you go throughout that journey, you can use all sorts of great tools to find your love and your talent icky guy, hedge hog.

[00:54:42] Kasan you name it, whatever it takes to find the intersection of what you do and what you love to unlock your talent and make sure that you go back to that inner creativity that you were born with as a job, because they're in, is the [00:55:00] best version of yourself. And we are all about learning out loud together, how and how each and every one of us can find what we were born to do our essential talent.

[00:55:11] That's it for? That's a wrap.