Walt Disney: The Disney Strategy
EPISODE 175
Walt Disney is famous for his ability to transform incredibly creative ideas into profitable realities. The process he used to brainstorm and develop theme parks and movies, has turned into a replicable process called “Disney’s Creative Strategy” by NLP expert Robert Dilts in 1994.
Disney’s Creative Strategy can be used to create new products or to solve problems. Its simple to use as an individual, as a team, or even as an organization. The strategy includes three roles or mindsets that each have a specific goal.
INTRO
Walt Disney discusses the behind the Scenes of an Academy Award winner, and prototyping to find success
Scaling and experimentation (1m35)
CREATIVITY WITHIN DISNEY
Tom Craven, who spent 41 years at Disney, discusses how it just takes some inspiration, creativity, and faith to make magic
The Water Pageant (4m25)
HOW WE CAN DO THIS
Andy from IGD Learning breaks down the three ‘characters’ of Creativity (defined by Walt Disney)
The Dreamer, the Realist, and the Critic (3m13)
Charles Duhigg and being an innovation broker and the Frozen cliches
The innovation technique Disney used to rewrite FROZEN | Charles Duhigg (1m25)
OUTRO
A number of inspirational quotes by Disney himself, leading us towards a creative life
Walt Disney - Quotes (Audio) (2m57)
READING
Walt Disney: The Triumph Of The American Imagination
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Mike Parsons: Hello
[00:00:01] and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode 176. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons. And as always I'm joined by the creative guru himself. Mr. Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning.
[00:00:14] Mark Pearson Freeland: Good morning, Mike and good morning listeners. Yes, you're right, Mike, it's all about creativity today. Isn't it. As we spark up a brand new series on the moonshot show, can
[00:00:26] Mike Parsons: you believe it?
[00:00:28] A whole new series dedicated to creativity, which is quite the mystery for most of us.
[00:00:35] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, I think mystery is actually a good word to describe creativity. I, for one, certainly have a point of view or an idea or a fascination, with the concept of creativity, it can come in a number of different ways.
[00:00:49] I think there's a, almost a barrier, that sometimes exists around creativity because some of us think that we all, or maybe aren't creative [00:01:00] and therefore it can feel a little. Like a closed club almost. And what I'm interested as you and I, and our listeners we've dug into creativity before on the moonshot show.
[00:01:09] We're now into a brand new series. What keeps them coming up in, in my eyes when we dig into these types of entrepreneurs and thinkers is actually. How accessible creativity can be when you put in the right maybe habits or frameworks, or right. Ways of thinking around the concept of creativity, what do you think of creativity?
[00:01:32] When we start discussing it, what comes to your mind?
[00:01:35] Mike Parsons: I think if we're talking about accessibility and creativity, none are greater than the star of this show.
[00:01:44] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah. That's where I might today listeners, we are digging into perhaps one of the most creative people that we can imagine when we're looking at what film to watch or what stories to tell our children.
[00:01:57] It's certainly been part of my life ever since [00:02:00] growing up. And he is the man, the myth, the legend, Mr. Walt Disney and Mike, this is a bit of a powerhouse individual that we're digging into.
[00:02:09] Mike Parsons: It is. What a legacy to think that you've got the films, you've got the parks and now you've got Disney plus like this brand and this legacy continues.
[00:02:21] And what is so perfect is that if you go back into 19, 19, Walt Disney was actually fired from the Kansas city star. And when he was fired, From the newspaper, he was fired, quote unquote for lacked imagination and had no good ideas. This is very moonshots, the resilience to keep going. We love this. And when I say he kept going, he went on to.
[00:02:56] As a brand and as a company over [00:03:00] 26 Oscars. So if you want to talk about shooting for the moon and not giving up when things get tough. Disney is the man. When you talk about creative legacy Disney has the man and the crazy thing is. He actually had a process and a method that we can all adopt as well.
[00:03:20] How exciting is that mark?
[00:03:22] Mark Pearson Freeland: Exactly in you and I, we could spend the next hour, Mike talking about our favorite Disney films. Couldn't we, because there are just so many, 26, more than 26 academy awards while we, but you're right. The focus of today is really gonna be. About finding the, let's say the secrets or the methods that I think we can all learn from and be inspired by, in order to perhaps unlock or become just that little bit more creative in the work that we go out and do no matter what industry it might be in.
[00:03:52] What the perfect way to start a brand new series.
[00:03:55] Mike Parsons: It really is. And, later in the series, we're going to have the likes of Jim Carrey [00:04:00] and sir Ken Robinson, which is fantastic. But mark, how good is it that we can start the show with hearing from the man himself and, for a guy who He was around a long time ago, but some of these practices are some of the cutting edge practices we use now in lean startup or scrum and agile.
[00:04:24] It's crazy to think that we can go and listen to the man, pioneering decades before any of us were thinking about lean startup.
[00:04:33] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, that's right. And it's, it is the perfect way to begin. Not only today's show Walt Disney, but also our brand new series and creativity by hearing from the man himself, Mr.
[00:04:42] Walt Disney, really breaking down the behind the scenes, thinking and elements and approaches to perhaps some of the greatest films and actually you're right, mark. It all starts with scaling as well as experimentation. The old saying these are the things that dreams are [00:05:00] made of Mike well applied to these scale models and the drawings and the blueprint.
[00:05:07] So
[00:05:09] Tom Craven: at
[00:05:09] Charles Duhigg: least when we dream up new ideas for Disney land, they first take shape and form. Such preliminary studies as this here at the studio. We get many letters from art students and from people who are just interested in art, some of these letters ask questions that deserve a more detailed answer and then could be given in a written reply.
[00:05:31] And so from time to time, we're going to devote an entire program to answering a few of these questions.
[00:05:36] Mark Pearson Freeland: And our feature production of band-aid. The characters were developed by drawing from life. Our artists made thousands of action sketches, catching every pose and characteristic attitude. And the production of lady and the tramp, this technique of humanized animal characters reaches a point of near perfection.
[00:05:59] We [00:06:00] first tried this approach to humanized animal animation in one of our early silly symphonies or this project. We brought some kittens into the studio and let them play and roll about as they please. While the artists made sketches and collected ideas for the kitten story. The result of this experiment was the academy award winner of the year, 1935 and the three orphan kids.
[00:06:25] Mike Parsons: How good is that they did thousands of sketches to work out the movement of the characters. They actually broke it down into small things that they can scale. It sounds like a modern day startup.
[00:06:39] Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, it does. Doesn't it? What I find so fascinating, genuinely hearing from the man himself there, the characterization of personifications of animals are such a.
[00:06:52] Stamp within the Disney films that sometimes we take it for granted when final products are given to [00:07:00] us. And we just say, oh yeah that's the way it's always been. It's always quite interesting to hear the creator themselves, breaking it down and demonstrating how they actually got there in the first place.
[00:07:10] And, it does it's maybe trial and error perfecting it over time. And the thing that stood out for me was making those scale models and essentially prototype. Prior to then going out and building that final product, whatever it may be, it's a film or a theme park or a product like you. And I will maybe I'll listen as we go and build.
[00:07:29] Isn't it fascinating when you fast forward from Walt Disney's time to now then fundamental idea like this still, we still use.
[00:07:39] Mike Parsons: Yeah. And the fascinating build that I want to give you is the patent that you and I have discovered. And it reminds me of the story that James Dyson found.
[00:07:55] CEO and actually serve James Dyson now of [00:08:00] a Dyson, very famous vacuum cleaners famous hair, basically anything that has air movement. He has nailed it, but check this out, mark. So it's got nothing to do with animation. And yet his story was, he was in the back shed at home and he made 5,127 different prototypes.
[00:08:22] Before he got his first product. And isn't that crazy that Dyson and Disney have that shame that, that shared a legacy, that same practice of test and learn prototype, make them make your product in a sort of small MVP or a prototype in order to get it right. And so it dispels for me. That these famed inventors or creators are walking down the street and are struck by lightning and poof.
[00:08:50] There it is actually, it's the resilience to keep building the prototypes. It's learning. Every time you make a new prototype, you learn [00:09:00] something new and slowly. Consecutively religiously over time, you actually make the breakthrough through hard work. And I think that is such a big lesson. The fact that we can see that in the creating of a Disney character or a Dyson hairdryer, the lesson is the same.
[00:09:19] Isn't
[00:09:20] Charles Duhigg: that crazy? Exactly. It's, there's an accessibility almost to it where, and actually I find it quite reassuring even. They don't just happen overnight. Dyson didn't just enter his shed and come up with all of his various inventions straight away. It takes time. And I think what also stands out to me as we were hearing from walk Disney there, as well as your build with Dyson is that.
[00:09:48] Things that your first creation, your first version, perhaps of an idea or a product or a book may not necessarily be perfect. And that's okay. It's [00:10:00] almost giving permission to the creator or the thinker that your first solution, customers. But flock towards it. It might not work, but actually through time, give yourself patience, give yourself the opportunity to listen, to learn from the, maybe the trial and error.
[00:10:17] Perhaps it then gets better over time. I find that very reassuring because I think a lot of us try and rush a product out and think it's going to be an overnight success because. And the
[00:10:27] Mike Parsons: trend is get very dejected when the first one is not very good or the second one is full short of customer expectation.
[00:10:35] It can be disheartening. You can be considering throwing it all in, but what do we see here? Whether it's Disney or Dyson? The capacity to scale, create little scale models to experiment, to prototype and to go out into the back shed for not just days and weeks and months, but years to get it right. And to think that Disney was [00:11:00] fired from the newspaper for a lack of imagination.
[00:11:03] No good ideas. But did he stop?
[00:11:06] Charles Duhigg: Oh, no, thankfully
[00:11:08] Mike Parsons: not. And I tell you who else is unstoppable? Mark. I got to say our members. They are pretty unstoppable too. Aren't
[00:11:16] Charles Duhigg: They certainly are particularly those with the outrageous, energetic dynamic user names. So Mike, as his customer. I'm going to introduce and give a roll call to all of our members and supporters of the moonshot show.
[00:11:32] Dan, Anna, please. Welcome Bob Niles, John Terry Nile marshaling, Ken DMR, Tom mark Marjon and Connor Rodrigo Yasmeen, Daniella. Lisa said Mr. Bandu Maria, Paul Berg and Kalman Annette David, Joe, crystal, Eva. Christian Ana hurricane brain. Definitely the most dynamic there. Don't have it named there at the end mic dot hurricane [00:12:00] brain.
[00:12:01] Mike Parsons: It is wonderful. And I hope we're whipping everyone up in a hurricane of creativity because our members, you certainly deserve it. We are so grateful for your support. It helps us pay for all of those bills that we get every single month to produce this show for you. And we love it. We love learning out loud together.
[00:12:21] We love the search of finding the best version of ourselves. Together and your support helps us do it. So we are extremely grateful. And if you, our listeners, if you'd like to be a member head over to moonshots.io, and there'll be a big button up in the top of the nav saying, become a member. And if you do you'll be able to contribute.
[00:12:41] You'll be able to share your thoughts and your ideas, but mark, when you're a member, you also get access to a completely unique second podcast that we make. Isn't that pretty cool.
[00:12:53] Charles Duhigg: You certainly can for members and subscribers, you get access to the [00:13:00] master series. And Mike, this is keeping you and I, and the moonshots team pretty busy.
[00:13:05] It's certainly let's say a. A, an additional comprehensive, deep dive into some of the key areas, topics, ways of thinking frameworks that we're finding out within the moonshots weekly show. Isn't it. Topics such as second order thinking, finding your purpose, entrepreneurship, art of communication, circle of influence habits, all these amazing topics.
[00:13:32] It gives you and I and the moonshots team, as well as our medicines subscribers, an opportunity to have a deep dive into these unique individual topics every single month.
[00:13:44] Mike Parsons: Yeah, and I think we're going to be launching another one live for members only on managing people, which is a real master class, 90 minutes, deep dive into all the best moonshot, thinking about how to work together and get the most out of the people that you work with.[00:14:00]
[00:14:00] So check all of that out@moonshots.io, where you can become a member and get access to all of those goodies. But I tell you what else we've got good. Just jam packed into today's show. We've just heard from Walt Disney himself. What we're going to do now is we're going to listen to Tom Craven who worked at Disney for 41 years.
[00:14:23] And he's going to tell the story of inspiration and creativity and how they made the magic. At Disney. And he's going to talk about a project the very famous project from Disney called the water pageant. And through that, we're going to have so much to learn. So let's have a listen now to Tom Craven.
[00:14:42] Tom Craven: What is magic? There's lots of definitions of it, but what I want to focus on is what it takes to make magic. I've boiled that down into these three elements. Inspiration creativity and faith, I [00:15:00] guess you could call it my magic formula among other projects I was assigned to build and operate the electrical water pageant.
[00:15:11] Now the electrical water pageant is basically a parade of floats on water and it was something that had never been done before. It was to be a one night event only it was to take place on the seven seas lagoon. And it was to be for this big Lou hour of specially invited guests that would be held on the beach of the Polynesian hotel.
[00:15:33] The leach barge is about 70 feet long and that man that the entire parade or the the water pageant was about a thousand feet long. And so we divided this into two strings of seven barges eat. We also put two outboard motors on the lead barge of each string. And that was what was used to propel the water [00:16:00] patch and across the lakes and the lagoons of Walt Disney world.
[00:16:03] Sound easy. Sure. Not really. Whenever that lead barge slowed down or stopped all the other barges, Jack knife, didn't the two other. And instead of having a floating parade, we had this floating mess. And so we were running out of time, which we always do. And so we contacted these watercraft experts and they all told us exactly the same thing they said.
[00:16:30] What you're trying to do is impossible because a float or a string of floats on water are not going to act like a string of trailers on land. They're always going to run into each other. We already knew that.
[00:16:46] It took us a while to get this kind of going. And what we were trying to do was figure out how we can make this work. And what we didn't know [00:17:00] is that what we needed was an inspiration. And so there we were out on the seven seas lagoon one night with less than three days to go. And we were, had the whole team there.
[00:17:14] We were gathered around our floating mess. We were trying to figure out what we were going to do. How are we going to make this work? And this voice spoke up. It was one of the drivers of one of the strings. He was a high school kid. He'd been hired part-time by Disney to drive it. And he had a little bit of experience with watercraft.
[00:17:35] He had no experience in physics, no experience in engineering, and he wasn't even a part of our team, but he had this idea. And his idea was that if we put another outboard border on the very last barge and faced it in the opposite direction, we could keep the string taut and keep them from running into each other.
[00:17:59] It [00:18:00] worked, it was a simple, elegant idea and it worked. And I thought I should have thought of that. My team should have thought of that. All those experts should have thought of that, but they didn't. And so we were left with this high school kid saving the day. And what I learned from that was this, that inspiration can come from anywhere and you really need to spread your net far and wide, much wider than your own.
[00:18:33] Because that's where you're going to find inspiration. And now here it is 44 years later and the electrical water pageant is the only thing that has survived from the grand opening. And it's been performing every night since all because of the inspiration of this high school kid.
[00:18:55] Charles Duhigg: My, I love that story, just [00:19:00] to retrace because it was a nice, long story from Tom Craven.
[00:19:04] It was meant to be a one night only. I know, and now it's been going for more than 40 years and it takes place every single night. And it's the longest surviving experience within the park. Just from that, isn't it a fascinating little story that proves the hard work and effort that can go into creating or producing an idea, putting it into action and the effect it can have over the years.
[00:19:31] Isn't that fascinating?
[00:19:33] Mike Parsons: Yeah, it really is. It's a great little insight into this idea that creativity truly can come from anyone anywhere. And, as I was listening to this, it was a sort of a challenge I think, is, are we open to where. Creativity can come from, are we listening to the signals or are we all fired up into trying to solve everything ourselves or are we more present and aware [00:20:00] of what's around us and taking in those signals?
[00:20:03] Sometimes I think we're perhaps running too fast to hear those signals.
[00:20:07] Charles Duhigg: What are you. Yeah I do actually totally agree. I think there's been certainly in my career, a tendency perhaps to lean or look towards the person or the persons with the most experience. So the people who are in the taste of in the case of Tom Craven, he was probably looking with his team at.
[00:20:28] Water experts, the people who were in physics, we, the electricians, the people who were building these products. And in my career, I'd probably look more towards the people who have more years experience, maybe experience handling different clients or different levels of work. And actually the case in point.
[00:20:47] Tom Craven's telling us, which by extension is the strategy within Disney is that inspiration can come from anywhere. And all it takes is just the team's ability to be open and [00:21:00] interested in the points of view from your, that your other colleagues. If you can create an environment that is receptive to the ideas and points of view of those around you, it's very likely that.
[00:21:11] Discover a brand new way of doing something that perhaps is much better than what you currently have. Yeah.
[00:21:18] Mike Parsons: And I think a lot of people who are leading projects or companies feel that the burden is squarely and almost exclusively on their shoulders to have all the answers. And I think what we're starting to learn here, mark, is that the answers can come from anywhere.
[00:21:36] Charles Duhigg: Yeah, exactly. Rather than trying to put yourself in a position as a leader, let's say and thinking, okay, I have to get this right. Everybody's relying on me. Yeah. That might be true. But the truth is. By opening yourself up as we're hearing from Tom Craven there, and even the Walt Disney clip at the very beginning, opening yourself up to feedback, [00:22:00] to ideas from maybe your team as well as consumers or the public or the viewers or the listeners in our case on moonshot show, totally opening yourself up and hearing the points of view of the feedback.
[00:22:12] Of those around you. Those ideas can become a lot better. And I really like this as we embark on this brand new series and creativity, again, it feels reassuring because you don't then as a leader, perhaps have all of the weight on your shoulder, instead it can be shared. And your ideas, or maybe style of management or your ideas on creativity can be improved just by a good old fashioned use of teams.
[00:22:39] Yeah,
[00:22:40] Mike Parsons: Let's dig into that. How could we, in our day-to-day work, encourage more ideas from different members of our team that I think is a really important question. I think one of the things is apart from inviting people to contribute ideas, I think. Scheduling time where [00:23:00] you are actively inviting people to actually contribute is really important, particularly at the start, because if it's not like a muscle that you're used to flexing people might not know how to do it.
[00:23:12] So I think you want to build a moment where people are brought to you. Bright ideas. Who's got them. So I think scheduling them is like super, super critical. What else would you do if you want to build a habit of getting ideas from all parts of the organization, what else do you think we can do to encourage.
[00:23:33] Charles Duhigg: Yeah, I think just to build on your recommendation there of scheduling time to experiment your, I don't think everybody has necessarily got experience in actually coming up with or sharing ideas. And I think what I would try to foster is creating an environment where all ideas are welcome. So focusing on building a, an environment, whether it's via teams or zoom calls, or [00:24:00] face-to-face.
[00:24:00] Having a working environment where everybody's ideas, whether it's important for a project or just the way of running the business are open. And everybody can have a point of view so that everybody feels ownership in the product. Maybe it's one product, maybe it's the flow of the business that feels quite a key area to focus into because then it instills trust and.
[00:24:25] Coming up with an idea, sharing it with your teammates and your leaders then becomes a little bit easier because you have that confidence to go out and get.
[00:24:33] Mike Parsons: Yeah, but it's interesting, you point out confidence and trust. And I do think that those are huge parts of people wanting to contribute or not wanting to contribute as it may be.
[00:24:44] And so I think our job is to not only invite people to contribute, but I think the rule of just never criticizing a contribution, always building on top of it, I think is really important because if. [00:25:00] If I was reluctant to share my ideas and I saw somebody contribute and get shot down or criticized, or someone says that'll never work, then there's very little incentive for me to contribute.
[00:25:12] So I think if you feel like it's safe to contribute and that there's no. Sharp stick at the end of the contribution. I think that sort of positive reinforcement and, I think another thing that would help that is to have cross-functional teams. I think that's where you get the real energy when you've got people from different backgrounds, different perspectives coming together.
[00:25:34] I think that's one way to get some really. Fun ideas, some D some sort of different thinking. If you have everyone from one team trying to solve a particular type of problem, you're probably going to get a little bit of group think. But if you bring people in from different disciplines, different teams, I think you can create some good energy there.
[00:25:52] So what a great learning mark that, that creativity can come from anywhere. And before that we heard Walt himself [00:26:00] talking about prototyping and experimentation, a huge themes that we love here on the moonshots podcast. We're already hitting some big moonshots, a home runs out.
[00:26:13] Charles Duhigg: Yeah, I am in both clips where we're learning from the speakers around bringing something that previously had felt impossible to do impossible, to create a pageant, a thousand feet long, stay in one line as well as create animals with humanized behavior in animations or scale models of dares and cats.
[00:26:36] And so on ideas that perhaps seemed impossible at the beginning of. Becoming real, just through a good old fashioned use of teamwork, open environments, as well as trial and error and prototyping. You're on these are spot on with lessons that we're still learning on the moonshot show, even though Walt Disney was around, many decades.
[00:26:58] Mike Parsons: I know. I know. And I [00:27:00] tell you the creativity is flowing not only with Disney, but mark, when we get a few reviews of the show some thumbs up some ratings, whether you're in Spotify or apple podcast, or one of the millions of other podcast players of your choice. We love it when people give us a rating and if they can to give them.
[00:27:22] I review it is so important for us to spread the word, to give others the opportunity to learn out loud together with us. We've had some great one from Sarah in Germany, from Caleb in the U S of recent mark. It is crucial for us, and this is, all those little algorithms that are running on Ash.
[00:27:46] When they see people giving us five stars or leaving a review that helps more people discover the show. It's critical for us. Isn't it.
[00:27:55] Charles Duhigg: Yeah, it is absolutely essential. The in place of [00:28:00] maybe sharing it via social media is. And so on the thing that really helps get the moonshot show into the ears of listeners around the world and therefore keep the moonshots training.
[00:28:11] Running is by giving us a rating or review. You can give us a review in places like apple podcasts. Give us a rating in places like Spotify. Everything helps the algorithm behind the scenes work at getting the moonshot show out into the palms of listeners around the world, and fundamentally Mike you and.
[00:28:31] Moonshots team. All we're trying to do is provide a good way of learning out loud into the ears of our listeners. We're finding all these different frameworks, templates, strategies with regards to creativity or entrepreneurship or leadership. And all we're trying to do is learn what habits, techniques, skills that you and I can learn from and share them with our listeners.
[00:28:57] By giving us a rating or review, you're [00:29:00] helping us get the moonshot show out into the ears of people around the world and just helping all of us learn that little bit more.
[00:29:08] Mike Parsons: I agree. And I think a great place to jump off now is into the application of these habits in these practices of creativity. And the great news is that there's actually a formal sort of model.
[00:29:24] And approach that Walt Disney used for creativity and he adopts these three different characters. And so we've got a breakdown now from Andy, from I G D learning. He's going to break down these three characters of creativity from Walt Disney himself.
[00:29:44] Charles Duhigg: The first one is the dreamer of a dreamer.
[00:29:48] It's all about the creative ideas and the passion. What's the big picture stuff. This is really letting your imagination run wild without any restrictions or any criticism that you are really [00:30:00] outputting creative. And what do I mean by how do you do this? Get flip charts, write ideas down. What's the big picture.
[00:30:06] If you solve this problem right now, what would it be achieving if you achieve outcome, what would it be doing for you? The organization or your wide arrange for the customers for whoever's involved, who are the stakeholders are, what will this be doing for them? Get really big and really out there. And what you're trying to do is output all of this dream, big vision stuff for yourself.
[00:30:27] So what do you want? What's the big picture? What is it? And what if it really succeeded? What if we sold loads of this stuff to really allow
[00:30:35] Mike Parsons: the dream to get big? Now, what do
[00:30:38] Charles Duhigg: we do with the vision goes really well? How can we imagine the solution? What's the benefit of applying now? You will have chance to get critical about it and to get it into action plans later.
[00:30:48] Mike Parsons: So
[00:30:48] Charles Duhigg: Dream really big. Have a flip chart, walls. Post-it notes, get all the ideas out because once you've done that,
[00:30:56] Mike Parsons: let me.
[00:30:57] Charles Duhigg: And you moved on to your south or your team [00:31:00] into next spot. You go into the realist zone. Again, the realist is about switching the thinking to a more logical planning style.
[00:31:09] And so you narrow it down. Then the dream has ideas into a short list. Yeah. You then start to discuss that idea constructively. Typically what you do is you take one best idea, one best idea. The dream has come up with, or that your imagination, your creativity. During this stage, you then get the next set of steps coming through an action plan, starting to evolve.
[00:31:35] And so you go how could I apply this idea into reality? What's the action plan to apply it? What's the timeline do I need, how do I evaluate that this has been a success. You start gaining that dream. You start getting into manageable action plan chunks. We're not going here.
[00:31:49] Mike Parsons: There needs to be individual
[00:31:50] Charles Duhigg: actions of individuals.
[00:31:52] Yet we're going into the key components stages to make this. And then the critic spoiler. So you get right. [00:32:00] Here's a dream. And here's the bit that the realizes of trying into an action. Now, what's been really critical about this idea to find some critical thinking to it. What might be the barriers to prime idea and how can I overcome those barriers?
[00:32:16] And in this session, what you're doing is trying to look to constructively critique. You're trying to find the weak point. You're trying to really get in there and find out the things that might go wrong. Having heard the action plan and what the dreamer wants. So what can we run with the idea what's missing?
[00:32:32] What are the risks? What are the dangers? How can we not apply it? What happens if we don't do anything? And what are the weaknesses? So really now what your critical critic is trying to do is trying to start to break it. And then what we would do typically within sessions, as you cycle through the. So the critique takes all that stuff and the really starts to do some things.
[00:32:50] And we go back to the dreamer of the dream and think about that. And we ended up with an actual. Wow. Mike, talk about an actionable framework. Just for [00:33:00] you and I, our listeners, this was a creative strategy that was identified by Robert Dilts, who is a neuro linguistic programmer back in 1994. And he identified those three areas that we just heard.
[00:33:14] Andy break down the dreamer, the realist. As real personalities or let's call them hats that Walt Disney would employ as he came to work each day, sometimes he turned up as the dreamer. He'd allow all the ideas to be totally free, flowing and fun. Other times he'd come in a little bit more of a realist hat on.
[00:33:36] Sometimes he'd turn up any big, the critic, putting all the ideas through the the rigor of. Focusing on all the barriers and so on, but isn't it interesting if we take a step back and we learn from all Disney, as Annie from IDG learning was breaking down, then you can use this framework, this strategy.
[00:33:56] To create actionable plans for any of [00:34:00] your products or ways of thinking, even nowadays, isn't it a great little framework and strategy that we can learn?
[00:34:06] Mike Parsons: It really is. It's sometimes referred to as the Walt Disney method or the Disney creative strategy, but it's essentially embodying these three different archetypes and mark, my reflection as we were listening from Andy, from.
[00:34:22] Was that often the reason that a product or business ideas fail I believe is because the idea has only had one or two of those roles applied to it. So often. If you think about it let's imagine you've got like a product idea and you've really dreamed really big. Often. What will be the challenge is that the realist, which is all about how are we going to do this?
[00:34:55] What actions is it going to take? Hasn't probably analyze the [00:35:00] idea or perhaps we haven't really challenged why we're doing it. What's the value it's creating. Do people really want it? If you play this out a bit, you could have dreamt a crazy big idea. You might be able to pull it off, but nobody.
[00:35:14] Kind of ask the question or why are we doing this? Is there a market? Is there a need? And so I actually think even if you're not in the world of animation, like Disney, you can use something like this is what Disney method.
[00:35:31] Charles Duhigg: This creative strategy,
[00:35:33] Mike Parsons: To better challenge your ideas because frankly, I know I've made this mistake where I've been a victim of wishful thinking where my idea has been under cooked.
[00:35:47] I would say in one, maybe two of these areas, I think it's such an interesting way to quickly make your ideas better. What do you think.
[00:35:56] Charles Duhigg: Yeah, I th I think the thing that I take away from this [00:36:00] the Disney creative strategy is how to compartmentalize each of those moments within the process in order to allow that brainstorming and that stress test.
[00:36:12] To really have good value, for me, I've certainly perhaps it's my monkey mind. Oh, just being, trying to get to the solution too quickly. I'll often blend the dreamer role with the realist and the critic. Sometimes, maybe even all three together. And the problem with doing that is every single idea will be.
[00:36:36] Or perhaps no idea can be created because you're always focusing on the challenges before being able to come up with a potential solution. And what I love about this process is to almost wear one at the beginning, blue sky thinking, don't worry about restrictions yet, then get into the next place and think, okay, now let's be realistic.
[00:36:58] Let's see how we can [00:37:00] actually do this. Okay. Now let's be the critic and I quite liked. Cyclical approach that you can also do going back through the process more than once. And I think that's certainly where the value of stress testing the idea comes through. But I also love this idea of allowing each idea to come to the surface in a timely manner, rather than shooting it down too quick, because then you get it all at your system.
[00:37:24] I quite like.
[00:37:26] Mike Parsons: Yeah. And I think the rigor and the capacity to challenge your own ideas like this, I think is super important. I think it's really fundamental in terms of a practice that you can take on to Like just much better ideas. Like you could have some great inspiration. You may have dreamt big, go out there and why not?
[00:37:48] Play devil's advocate or try and spoil the idea like. That will only make it a better idea. And we've certainly heard on the show, a lot people that are prepared [00:38:00] to challenge their own ideas and just go for the best outcome. And they're not overly attached just because it was their idea, but are willing to like really put their ideas through some sort of bootcamp, some sort of rigorous program to make them better.
[00:38:15] I think this is really the path to having much better ideas and. We're in a knowledge economy. So it's all about ideas. That's, what's really going to set you apart. I think this is very exciting that for somebody who was grow really grew up post world war one, we're still taking practices from them here in.
[00:38:36] 22 and it doesn't stop there, mark, because we can look at one of the more recent titles from Disney frozen. I know you're a fan mark. It's okay. You can admit it and we can see Disney. Creativity he's method coming about once again and to analyze how they did it in the Disney film [00:39:00] frozen we've got none other than a moonshots favorite.
[00:39:03] Charles Duhigg breaking it down on how frozen was able to create creative. Here in the modern age, many companies
[00:39:12] Charles Duhigg: face this basic question. How do you speed up innovation? How do you make the creative process faster within psychology? The people who know how to do this are known as innovation brokers for companies like Disney.
[00:39:25] This is part of their deal. This is what all their executives think about all the time. And one of the best examples of this is when they were making the film frozen. Now all of us know frozen is this monster success. What are the highest grossing films of all time, but midway through mission frozen, it almost all fell apart.
[00:39:44] In fact, the team that was making frozen, they didn't know how to end the film. They couldn't work together. They couldn't figure out how to make the creativity. And so what they did is they turned to an old principle, the best creative process. Often isn't about being original. [00:40:00] It's about taking cliched ideas from two different realms and smashing them together.
[00:40:06] That's what happened for frozen. They took these old fairytale ideas. They took these new ideas about women being strong and about sisters saving each other. Instead of needing a prince to save them, they smashed them together. And the result was one of the most successful films of all time.
[00:40:22] Mike. I love that little story. And from a moonshot or himself, Mr. what a perfect inclusion into our show on Walt Disney. First of all, but I love this innovation broker approach. The fact that they couldn't necessarily figure out that end. Started to blend in therefore create brand new narratives from old cliches.
[00:40:46] I think that's a really, again, good extension of what we heard in the first clip from Walt Disney at the beginning of the show, she's prototyping and experimenting, blending it together to see if it works, maybe doing some screen testing with the audience, [00:41:00] or maybe just again, like we have from Tom Craven, allowing each member of the team to come up with a different point of view and then.
[00:41:07] Just experiment getting the lab. I think it's a really nice again, demonstration of how a product that we all know. We all love with frozen and yes, you're probably right. I probably have been caught singing the songs, maybe not to our listeners, fortunately, but I think it's a great behind the scenes story there of a team that maybe struggled at one point, but then were able to overcome.
[00:41:33] Maybe through trial and error and come up with a product that then went on to win academy awards themselves.
[00:41:39] Mike Parsons: And again, what we're seeing here with someone like Disney is themes of prototyping. Themes of creativity comes from anywhere, these different hats to put more rigor on your ideas. And I just see in the living pulse of Disney right now, [00:42:00] they're taking that classic idea that we've seen in moonshot.
[00:42:03] So many times you could almost say that there's no new ideas, just old ideas, remixed and remade for the modern age. This was certainly something we heard from Elizabeth Gilbert and many others. It's incredible to see how strong these patterns are in this sort of moonshots model. Where we see repeatedly the same techniques, the same approaches are used for innovation, creating new things for growth, for bringing new value into the world for having impact this idea of taking old ideas and remixing them, and you get something new and it's a smash hit.
[00:42:40] I find that really inspiring on both of those levels. One what they did with frozen, but two it's a pattern that Wes. Through many different innovators through many different Marine shutters.
[00:42:54] Charles Duhigg: Yeah, we really are. And again, it is fascinating that this behavior has [00:43:00] existed almost time Memorial Mike, we seem to step into these different individuals, entrepreneurs, superstars authors every week, probably every day for us.
[00:43:13] And it's fascinating when we do start to see these different blends. Coming through. It's fascinating when we do discover different approaches, just being extensions or maybe reinterpretations of certain contemporary. Approaches that we've run into in the past. I think it's fascinating.
[00:43:31] And it's really where that value of the minutiae show comes through. Isn't it, when we do run into these different ideas much like with Elizabeth Gilbert and big magic, that idea that all ideas perhaps have been traced before, but you're the first person stepping into those shoes. And it's the first time that you're doing it.
[00:43:49] Yes. There's so many different avenues to creativity, as we're finding throughout all of our series and creativity that it's accessible to them.
[00:43:59] Mike Parsons: Yeah. [00:44:00] And I think hopefully what we're starting to see here is prototyping taking ideas from anywhere wearing those hats, reconstituting, our ideas, putting a new spin on these are all inspiration that we can take from Walt Disney.
[00:44:15] These are all things that we can do today. We just have to adopt the habits of creativity from. Walt Disney himself, and I think not many better teachers when it comes to creativity than Walt Disney right
[00:44:29] Charles Duhigg: now. Yeah. He suddenly somebody that stands out when I'm thinking of creativity. I do love that story that he was fired for not having a creative idea or an original idea.
[00:44:42] No good idea. And there are good ideas. And now look at it. It's one of the most, well-known certainly a house brown across the world. And as you've already pointed out, they've extended. Beyond just films into theme parks, into television and [00:45:00] streaming, they've won multiple awards. It's a fascinating brand.
[00:45:05] Isn't it? That's just getting better and better with the years are deeply from that original startup approach of Walt Disney. Again, I think. An interesting extension. When you do think of a brand as big as Disney, then you start to think of it as a startup back in the day of doing prototypes, doing experimentation.
[00:45:24] These are still methods that they do nowadays, of course, with consumers they'll do screenings. Test different approaches to bring out films and testing those different endings cliches, perhaps again, it's a starter mentality, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:45:41] Mike Parsons: And holding onto these principles that, bring the creativity, bring people together and In a sort of celebration of that.
[00:45:49] We've actually got one final clip mark and it's pulling together some of the best clips, some of the best quotes from [00:46:00] Walt Disney himself. And We were unsure if there was enough inspiration yet. So we're just going to bring it home with a clip. Now that is going to share with you, some of Walt's thinking around creativity and imagination.
[00:46:15] So let's have a listen for the last time to the thinking of Walt Disney.
[00:46:20] Charles Duhigg: If you can dream, you can do it. Always remember that this whole thing was started by him out. When you're curious, you find lots of interesting things to do. You can design and create and build the most wonderful place in the world, but it takes people to make the dream a reality.
[00:46:41] All the adversity I've had in my life, all my troubles and obstacles have strengthened. You may not realize when it happens, but kicking the teeth, maybe the best thing in the world for you. We keep moving forward, opening new doors and doing new [00:47:00] things because we're curious
[00:47:03] Tom Craven: and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths.
[00:47:06] Charles Duhigg: All our dreams can come true. If we have the courage to pursue them. It's fun to do the impossible. Laughter is timeless. Imagination has no age dreams. Aren't forever. That's the real trouble with the world. Too many people grow up. Our greatest natural resource is the minds of. I don't like formal gardens.
[00:47:35] I like wild nature. It's just the wilderness instinct in me. I guess the way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing. Why worry if you've done the very best you can, that worry won't make it any more. When you believe in a thing, believe in it all the way implicitly and [00:48:00] unquestionable, I'd say it's been my biggest problem.
[00:48:04] All my life it's money. It takes a lot of money to make these dreams come true. I have no use for people who throw their weight around. Or for those who fallen over you, just because you are famous. I dream, I test my dreams against my beliefs. I dare to take risks and I execute my vision to make those dreams come true of all the things I've done the most vital is coordinating those who work with me and aiming their efforts at a certain.
[00:48:41] Ideas come
[00:48:43] Tom Craven: from
[00:48:43] Charles Duhigg: curiosity.
[00:48:45] Mike, what a nice little final club for our world Disney show, as well as a great clip, that's going to continue beyond show number 176 throughout the rest of our creativity series. [00:49:00] Elicited, essentially mantra. Mentors that will Disney's either written down. Maybe he'd even share them with his colleagues.
[00:49:07] Obviously we've heard about it now on the moonshot show. I was scribbling away. I was highlighting some of the quotes from that, that there's so many great ones on that.
[00:49:18] Mike Parsons: I picked three. I love this one, he says all the adversity I've had in my life. All my troubles and obstacles have strengthened me.
[00:49:28] I thought that was great. Another one total moonshots. The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing. Yes.
[00:49:37] And actually the third last one, I dream, I test my dreams against my beliefs. I did it take risks and I execute my vision to make those dreams come true or Hey cool. That was B what about you? Any others you want to add to those?
[00:49:55] Charles Duhigg: Yeah, I'd add just two others to those. Cause you've already touched on a few of my favorites as [00:50:00] well.
[00:50:00] I loved the very moonshots, almost stoic approach that we've heard about on the show before. Why worry? As long as, it's the best that you can do. I like that. That's speaking to me with circle of influence as well as, ownership and having a clear conscience, if you're working as hard as you can, as well as I think one of those final ones, his greatest role was to help coordinate others towards a shared goal.
[00:50:27] As I think about. Upcoming show that you and I and the moonshots team are about to put up for our subscribers and members on the master series about managing people leadership management, coordinating team members that speaks very highly to me as a great. For those who are in place have of managing people, your role is to help guide others.
[00:50:51] Not necessarily to be the loudest person in the room, but be their facilitator facilitate and guide. And I love that humility that you hear from [00:51:00] Walt Disney's quotes there, where he's saying, look, I'm not here to create all of the big ideas. I'm here to also help others, the team around me, get us towards that shared goal.
[00:51:11] I think that's a really nice little thought. Some great
[00:51:14] Mike Parsons: mountains, great Manchesters. And to think that, we've been able to do a show on Rob AIGA, who was also the CEO at Disney to think that we've had some such a great chance to learn from one company. So many times all thanks to. The efforts and the the genius and hard work and the resilience of Walt Disney himself.
[00:51:38] It's a big show mark. We covered a lot. I mean that last clip we just play could have been the show in its entirety. We could have just riffed about that. What stands out for you? What changes for you now that we've done this show?
[00:51:52] Charles Duhigg: I really like the. Practicality that comes with, what's known as the Disney creative [00:52:00] strategy, the dreamer, the realist, the critic.
[00:52:03] I think that framework is a really. Actionable habits and way of coordinating, brainstorming, as well as decision-making with any part of your team, whether it's an internal team or an external team. I think that's quite an interesting little framework and strategy that I'll be putting into practice in the future because.
[00:52:26] It just helps get all of the fun ideas out, then allow allow a layer of realism as well as critic criticism to come through later. What about you, Mike? What spoke to you loudest throughout our clips today
[00:52:38] Mike Parsons: and Walt Disney? I think I have to agree. I wasn't familiar with this model until we prepared the shows.
[00:52:44] Totally into the dream of the realist in the critic. I think it's a fantastic model. I'm just going to be applying that now to all the ideas I hear over the next week. I'll be exactly, I'll be schizophrenia. I'll be dreaming realists and the critic [00:53:00] it'll send everyone into. Oh, good. Mark, listen, thank you to you for joining me on this journey and thank you to you.
[00:53:09] Our listeners who are learning out loud and being the best version of yourselves. And today we got a mega dose of that on show 176 with Walt Disney. And it all started with understanding that ideas begin small scale. Experiment build the prototype. That was the fundamental learning we started with from Disney himself.
[00:53:32] Then we went to the lifer of Disney, Tom Craven, who told us that magic takes inspiration, creativity, and faith. And if you really want to start getting strategic, it's that classic Disney, creative strategy, Disney methods, some call it the dreamer, the realist. And we see that it's all about bringing creativity from all four corners of the organization.
[00:53:56] Even sometimes combining the new with the old, and [00:54:00] it all came together for us. As we took inspiration from the man himself, from Disney, who told us that there was so much in the world to dream big, to move forward through adversity sometimes. Adversity is just what we need and that we need to do it together without us.
[00:54:18] Cause it's a team sport. And that's what we believe here at the moonshots podcasts. That being the best version of yourself is a team sport. And the way we do it is we learn out loud together. That's it for the moonshot podcast. That's a wrap.