Robert Greene: The 48 Laws Of Power
EPISODE 168
Robert Greene is an American author who has written best-selling books on Strategy, Power & Seduction. In his bestseller, The 48 laws of Power, he illustrates the tactics, triumphs, and failures of great figures from the past who have wielded - or been victimized by - power.
The perfect book for taking back your power, in work, in relationships, the 48 Laws apply everywhere. For anyone with an interest in conquest, self-defense, wealth, power or simply being an educated spectator. The distilled wisdom of the masters - illustrated through the tactics, triumphs, and failures from Elizabeth I to Henry Kissinger on how to get to the top and stay there.
Wry, ironic, and clever, this is an indispensable and witty guide to power.
INTRO
Robert Greene and Barry Kibrick introduces the focus of his book
Everyone wants power (2m40)
LAWS 1 AND 2
Robert Greene and Barry Kibrick discuss the most common power mistake that people make
Never outshine the master (3m02)
Robert Greene and Barry Kibrick and how the less you say, the more intimidating and powerful you are
Always Say Less than Necessary (1m44)
LAWS 25 AND 47
Robert Greene and Barry Kibrick and how you have the power to be the master of your own image
Re-Create Yourself (1m23)
Robert Greene and Barry Kibrick and how in victory you should not get drunk on your own success
Do not go past the mark you aimed for (1m15)
OUTRO
Robert Greene and how we should take ownership in order to take power
Examine yourself (1m20)
READING
Robert Greene: The 48 Laws Of Power
CLIP CREDITS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OKwJ3G-Kng&ab_channel=EvanCarmichael
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJE3w04zdwk&ab_channel=BarryKibrick
TRANSCRIPT
Mike Parsons: [00:00:00] And welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode 168. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined. By the big hitting the powerful man himself. Mr. Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning,
Mark Pearson Freeland: Mike. Or should I say Mike Parsons? That's right. We are going into a pretty powerful episode today.
Mike Parsons: We are feeling the full fledged 48 laws of power.
Aren't we mark?
Mark Pearson Freeland: Oh my goodness. You're totally right. We are in the second episode listeners in our mindset series. And today with episode 168, we are digging into Robert Green's the 48 laws of power. And I think Mike, it's fair to say as. Just kick ourselves off and start thinking about today's show. And today's topic is this is, this was a pretty classic book that's out there.
It's quite synonymous. It's quite well known. And there's connections [00:01:00] with the American federal prisons. I think 50 cent rapper. He's got a tattoo of some of the laws. It's quite a big book that's out there, but at the same time, It felt a little bit unusual for me as we were digging into some of the laws, how maybe derisive, I guess some of them could be.
Mike Parsons: Yeah. This truly is a controversial book. This is perhaps one of the most controversial books that we've covered on the show. And it really, it dances on a fine line between good and bad dark and light. Really this is a book where. When you look at some of the commentary around it, and I'm just going to share with you just a couple of the Amazon book review titles, here's one danger read at your own risk.
Here's another one. These rules of power that will get you alone, broke and turn you into a loser. Want to be an abuser? And here's the big one. Here's the big one. [00:02:00] Before we actually, before we did the. Here's another very positive one, great for dealing with the real world. But the one that I think is the big question that we need to tackle on the show today was in December 21st, 2019, a reviewer says the reviewer's name or username is eluding viseon on Amazon dot.
So this is a book of evil mark. This is going to be one tricky one to break down. There's a lot inside of it. I think what we want to do here is invite our listeners to join us on what is considered by some, one of the greatest business books of all time. And obviously by some, a book of darkness, this seems like it would be a favorite for Darth Vader on his bookshelf.
How are we going to do this map?
Mark Pearson Freeland: What do you think? I think it certainly sounds as though it's going to be an entertaining book for us to dig into and the [00:03:00] laws, whether we find we're not going to have time to maybe cover all 48, of course, Mike, otherwise maybe we'd need a six or seven hour show. But I think today our task is really to take a look at some of the key.
Rules the key laws that stand out to you and I, and that we think that might apply to our listeners and really give it the lens of moonshot. Is this a book that fits into our library of moonshot?
Mike Parsons: That's totally right. And let's not forget. This is rated 4.7 out of five 30, 6,686 global ratings. This puts it right up there with some of the most timeless classics Napoleon hill, Stephen Covey.
You name it, some of our big ones. Good to great. So this is massively popular and we're going to break it down and find out, is there something good in the 48 laws of power by Robert Green, Mr. Mark Peterson, Freeland, where shall we begin?
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think it's only [00:04:00] fair that we begin by hearing from the author himself, Robert Greene.
And we've got some great clips today from an interview that Robert Green did with Barry Kubrick from between the lines. And I think. Obviously it's a fairly, as we discussed controversial, maybe derisive title, the 48 laws of power, because we might all have a different point of view about what power means to us.
So let's give the author, Robert Greene, the opportunity and chance to introduce to us and our listeners, the focus of his book and how everyone wants.
Robert Greene: Basically, I think that there are many ways to explain what makes a human, being a human being. It's the, that we're rational creatures that we have an opposable thumb, et cetera.
And I thought that there was something, a little more elemental that. And our animal nature that isn't quite gotten at. And a lot of these books that are written about power and who we are, and just in my own personal experience. And in my wide ranging reading of history, I've just noticed this trend that [00:05:00] everybody wants power and power is.
It's generally seen in the sort of ugly light of you want power. You want to become president. You want to take over other countries, but it's not that. And it
Mark Pearson Freeland: was very funny. You should say that. That was my son. First concern. He says, dad, this seems like an awfully harsh book. And in fact, one of the lines I was going to even say there is that sort of devious part of power, that is a little
Robert Greene: unsettling for the human.
Yes. And I maintain that in our country and our culture in particular, there's a lot of kind of negativity and guilt around the whole phenomenon of power. But I think that, and in other cultures, particularly places, if you've ever lived in a country like Italy or France, they're much more. Straightforward about the whole thing and there isn't this guilt about it, but the thing is everybody wants that feeling of control that you have some power over the people around you.
In the sense that if you talk to them that you can at least persuade them with your ideas, [00:06:00] that you can get them to do what you want that you have just a feeling of control in your life and the sense that you can't control anything that you have no influence over the people around you. You have no influence over you.
Your wife, your kids, your boss, your colleagues is so miserable that it will turn you into almost like a monster basically. And that a person who is happy with themselves and feeling comfortable with this knowledge that they want. Power is actually in the long run, a better person to be.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Isn't that funny because misery and unhappiness is truly the root of all evil.
You're very right. So when you feel a little bit more in control, you're empowered, you feel a little bit better about yourself and therefore affect people around you in a more positive way.
Robert Greene: There's a famous quote that power absolute power corrupts, absolutely. That people quote a lot. But then Malcolm X came out with the.
Having no power corrupts even more. Absolutely. So the [00:07:00] sense of feeling like you have no power, no control is actually more corrupting in the long run.
Mike Parsons: Malcolm X actually brings some serious wisdom and context on this idea of power. And I think what I'm hearing Robert Green talk about there is if I was to substitute the word power and say, Confidence or being in control of your life.
That's what he's hoping to get at is to empower us, not just power, but empower. And what's an interesting, the way, we talked about. Absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. A very famous notion, but Malcolm X says absolutely no power is even worse. And what he's talking about is do we choose to be a victim of our circumstance or will we take full ownership and actually.
Be self-directed and not be a victim, but to make [00:08:00] things happen for ourselves and for those around us. This is almost the opening argument, that what we hope mark that the next five clips, hopefully we can explore this idea, but at first glance, to me, there's two things. I want your thoughts on here.
One, when as soon as you say power, that feels a bit unseemly and greedy and. Talked about that guilt associated with power, but then actually the turn that, that Robert Green is putting on this is that if you don't have any power, then that's actually a worse situation than having power. And that we're getting down to some sort of animal spirits inside of all of us.
Yeah, power, how we live. What are your
Mark Pearson Freeland: thoughts? I really agree with the idea that without power, it breeds, insecurity, maybe unhappiness, perhaps even aggression because you feel as though you have no. Choices. You have no [00:09:00] options available, no opportunities in front of you. And when you don't have that power, you I think therefore more likely to treat your colleagues, your family, the relationships quite negatively.
So I really liked this idea of whether you're in at you're. Obviously we're not necessarily trying to take over countries. As Robert Green says, power is not necessarily something we're going to use to invade anywhere, but instead as we think about. Careers and relationships and so on without power, it does breed that sort of insecurity I find.
And I think that's a really interesting power shift that Robert Green does for us and how we do think about pat, because you're quite right. When I think about somebody in power, it is perhaps slightly negative. There's almost this confrontational element. People feel towards those in power, isn't it?
This rebellious Renegade underdog story still feels very popular [00:10:00] nowadays. And we almost always rooting for the team who aren't necessarily the best, it's game. But it's conversely true. If you rethink about what you expect to discuss or think about or consider with power like we are doing on today's show and you start to put it into more of an ownership, more of an influence, maybe a confidence elements, and you're empowering an individual to go out and actually just be the best version of themselves or even be happy.
It does feel much. Positive. I think when I think about think about the concept of.
Mike Parsons: Let's see if the following ideas from Robert Green actually prove that out and let's really examine it together. But before we do mark, I tell you who's had the power of their fingertips on their keyboards and how does our members?
It is so great to see us continually growing our community and our members, [00:11:00] and we are ever so grateful for their patronage because that helps us pay for. Transcriptions for our web hosting for our podcast, hosting all of this to share with all of you. So mark, without any further ado, let's do a roll call.
Who are our members?
Mark Pearson Freeland: Our key members of power today include Berge pool. Maria said Liza Daniella, spaceman, Yasmeen, Rodrigo Connor marsh, and mark Byron, Tom Dietmar, Ken modular, NIO Brady, Terry, John Neil's. Bob welcome. Our Patrion members are individuals of power. Each of whom are not only helping us keep the moonshots spaceship.
Careering through space, helping us learn from like-minded moonshot is out there, but also you're all receiving a good Aluna powered dose of karma, as well as mine mikes and all of the moonshots teams. Thanks.
Mike Parsons: Exactly. So [00:12:00] there you go. Thank you again to all our members. And if you want to be a member of moonshots podcast, head over to moonshots.io, click on that big members button.
It'll come up on the page. It's in the top. Nev give it a click. It's literally like for the price of a coffee. Every month you get all of these shows, but you also get the moonshots master series. And just recently we did a epic master series only for our members. 90 minute deep dive on entrepreneurship and coming up, the next one is going to be on finding your purpose.
So if you're a bit of assignment Sinek fan, you want to become a member before we release that one. So you can have a listen to us going totally. On finding your purpose and being the very best version of yourself. But my Robert, Green's got a lot of ideas on how we can become the best version of ourselves.
Where do we start? When we break down the laws, in fact, the 48 laws we'll do five for this show, but where do you
Mark Pearson Freeland: want to stay? I think it's [00:13:00] much if we were. The book and read it with our listeners. We'd obviously start presumably with law number one. So I think that's a great place to start and it gives Robert Green opportunity to really kick off his 48 laws correctly.
First of all, let's hear from Robert Green discuss the first law that he has, which is titled, never outshine the master. Never outshine the master. And what made this an interesting law for me is when you think of power, you almost think that the person is the master who has the power. Okay. So when you read this, though, what I, and the fact I had this.
With my wife yesterday, when I was trying to come to terms with that concept, the first thing that popped in my mind was the Bob Dylan song. Everybody's got a serve so body, and that's the essence I got out of this on the way to power. It really could even be the transcendent transcendental power even that you are serving.
It really means am I [00:14:00] right? It really means do not outshine the master, whoever it might be.
Robert Greene: Everyone has a master. Even a George W. Bush, the president of the most powerful country in the world, he serves the American public. And if he doesn't do the right things, he's going to be voted out of office.
Everybody has a master. And the thing is that the essence of that. Is, and the reason I started it off that way is it's the most common mistake that people make in the world. It's the most common power mistake I have made this mistake actually on several occasions and everybody I talked to has made the mistake and what it basically boils down to is the following.
You're in, let's say a work situation and you want to please your boss, your master, whomever that is and you work really hard and you show him or her that you're capable of all of these great things. You write an extra special report, blah, blah, blah. And then in the end, you find out that your boss or whomever is actually a little bit cold to you.
It doesn't, isn't [00:15:00] actually impressed. And what has happened is you've gone to. You've made the boss feel insecure, made them feel like you're better than him or her that actually people like you more than they liked the master. And so you have to be very careful that the F the first things you should do in such a situation is actually to make your boss, your master, whomever, feel comfortable that you're not after their position, that you recognize that they are above you.
A lot of these things we're talking about in here seemed you're discussing something in the 17th century. We're in a democratic world. We don't have masters in such a stuff. And that's, I think the problem a lot of people have, is we may look so modern in 21st century, but certain basic things haven't changed and the person that you were working for.
Is just like the Cesare Borgia is just like Louis the 14th. They have the same insecurities that have existed for hundreds of years. And you have to not make them feel insecure, but make them feel good about [00:16:00] themselves. In
Mark Pearson Freeland: fact, you say that's, this is the one law that a lot of people have a big problem with because inadvertently, as you said, by trying to do the best you can for the person you're serving, you make them feel uncomfortable.
That's a very. Twisted. And in this particular law,
Robert Greene: yes.
Mike Parsons: Never out shining the master. I can really relate. I actually had one time in my career where we were doing so well. Mike. I thought, wow, isn't this amazing how well we are doing. And I soon realized that my boss at the time did not really share the same enthusiasm because I really relate to this because, I actually had this time mark in my life where in my career.
I was running a team, a really large team within a bigger group of companies. And I really thought that our [00:17:00] success was a shining example of the future and it would be really great, but my boss was scared to death of what we were doing and he made it very clear to me that this wasn't going to work out.
Despite this amazing success. And I remember the surreal experience I literally had exactly what Robert Green talked about. I didn't want this guy's job, but our success was so apparent that he would rather not have that success and feel safe, even though there was no threat whatsoever. On the surface level, this is what Robert Green is talking about these sort of animal spirits.
That guide us in the reality of how business truly is. It would be great if things weren't like that, but it's really how it is, but I think there's also some more in this idea. Don't
Mark Pearson Freeland: you mark? [00:18:00] Yeah. I think your story alone is a great illustration of what Robert Green's really saying. You've you had your individual, your boss who was feeling perhaps insecure and at the same time, that's therefore revealing that he in fact has a master as well.
So it reminds us all that there's going to be somebody on the end of a phone or a zoom call or at the end of a text message or email where they also have a, maybe a job to do or responsibilities or a direct report. And I think for me, certainly there's been plenty of times in my career where I'll assume that the person that I'm working with perhaps can make the big decision.
They can approve maybe the big budget and. At the same time, it then reveals or reminds me that, everybody has a master. Everybody has somebody or something that they're reporting to. And therefore they are probably still feeling to a certain extent insecure about [00:19:00] something else. And I like this idea.
Robert Green's illustrating to us, which, he's obviously directly saying, don't make your boss look bad for me. It's reminding me that there's many other people around me that have their own things going on their own. I realize or KPIs that. Responsibilities. And whether that's my colleagues or my boss, or a client or a partner or a relationship that's outside of work, everybody has these different elements that are coming into them at the same time.
And I think this law reminds me that I can only control the areas and the power that are directly around.
Mike Parsons: Yeah. And, he said something very important. He said, you want to make people feel good about themselves. And talking about this in the context of not out shining the master, I would go even further back and say, what he's really talking about is just a different take on almost humble or servant leadership where you make those [00:20:00] around you feel empowered, feel.
Feel safe, build the trust. This is Patrick Lencioni. Exactly. Like building the trust around and putting others before yourself. Now, whilst he, he does pose it in this never out showing the master, you could always sit back and say always celebrate the good things that your teammates do. That's exactly the same idea.
And so I think what we can see in this is that what Robert Green really does is he is. Addressing frankly, observing these very human animal survival instincts that dictate that play out in the workplace and he calls them out. And I think it's so true. I've had this situation. I didn't want my boss's job.
I couldn't believe I, it was so hard for me to understand the perceived threat he saw. In our success, it was just gobsmacking and went on to [00:21:00] cause quite some damage to the business. But nevertheless, it is a reality of life and that we shouldn't ignore it and we can see it through this lens of which in this case it is humble or servant leadership.
So I, I really think that this is the fascinating nature of Robert Greene's work, that it's always straddling these two sides. Isn't it? Yeah, I
Mark Pearson Freeland: totally agree. It also reminds me of Simon Sinek. Leaders he lost correct as well. Obviously you've mentioned Patrick Lencioni, the ideal team player. I think that's a very good one, but also even Abby Wambach.
Do you remember the work that she was saying to us about leading from the bench? I think this is another great demonstration of leadership in general, whether they are your master or again, your colleagues. By treating each other fairly by having the respect from one another, you're going to be a better team because of it.
And when you've got an individual, like your previous boss making you feel a bit confused, maybe a bit [00:22:00] insecure, it obviously then led to the disillusion dissolvement or negative impact. And it obviously didn't go quite so well by the sounds of it. And I think that's another great demonstration that if you can make your team feel good about themselves, remove insecurity.
You're then going to have a better result in the end.
Mike Parsons: Totally. Hey mark. And what else makes you feel really good? Check this out, going into Spotify or apple podcasts app, just like literally right now as you're listening and give us a rating or even a review. If you're in apple. How good does that make you feel,
Mark Pearson Freeland: man, it's amazing how much our listeners have really adopted this.
Mike, I'm certainly starting to see the ratings and the numbers start to go up in Spotify and apple. So I really appreciate for those listeners who have already started to listen to us take part actively, leave us a rating or review because it really does help us start to appear more in the popular.
Business podcasts, different [00:23:00] genres, Mike, and I think it's fair to say that the growth for the last couple months has really down to you. Our listeners who are actively sharing the podcast, they're actively signing up as well as leaving ratings and reviews. So listeners every little bit counts. Every penny adds up to a pound, every sentence up to the dollar and your rating really does make a big difference.
Pop along to your podcast app of choice, leave us a rating or review in apple podcasts because it's just helping us spread the word to many other people around the world,
Mike Parsons: indeed. And a big thanks to all our listeners. We hit a huge milestone. Last month in January, we had 53,000 listeners.
So we want to say a big thank you. And the way you can spread the word is go into your podcast app while you're listening right now. Hit the star button hit the thumbs up button, leave us a review. That's how more people can discover us. And while they're discovering us were discovering what Robert Green has [00:24:00] to say.
In fact, we're discovering what his advice is on. Actually, when to say less,
Mark Pearson Freeland: always. And necessary. And I know that was something that I had to take control of because I know I even joke with my own bosses here. The joke was always not only do I infield the Lily I'll Guild, the Guild of Lily and you have to be very
Robert Greene: cautious of that.
As an interviewer though, you have to be able to talk a little bit.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Maybe that's me, the reversal on this one. We'll come in of course, but it's but still. Saying more than you have to say, to get to where you need to go.
Robert Greene: I could have almost started the book with that law because it's also, that's the second biggest mistake that people make.
Mark Pearson Freeland: So I'm going in order here from my
Robert Greene: own mistakes. And we've all had that feeling. You go on a job interview and you're nervous and you just talk and talk. And in the process of talking, you say something that's probably stupid. You probably say something that's going to [00:25:00] offend the person you don't really know.
But you just have this feeling. I talk too much. And so what you have to do is you have to get control of your tongue and you have to learn that in any situation. Of course, when you're in the house, you can relax a little bit, but in any kind of situation in the world you have to. Basically be aware of yourself, be aware how other people are perceiving you and the person who in, let's say in a meeting, in an, in a work situation, the person who talks too much seems weak.
It seems like they have no control over themselves. And the person who talks less has a more kind of powerful appearance, more powerful persona. We said earlier, you have to control your emotions. What if you can't control your tongue and your propensity to always talk you're just as hopeless as if you can't control your.
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think that's a really big takeaway, right? At the end of that clip model.
Mike Parsons: Smack it in. Do you need it's
Mark Pearson Freeland: really? And I think that's the real crux actually of this law. If you can't control your [00:26:00] emotions, you can't control your tongue. It means that your. Perception in front of others is going to be weaker.
And obviously Robert Green's coming at this with a lens of being powerful, being maybe even domineering in a situation where by being quiet. I actually think what's really interesting when I think about how. You and I even operate on the moonshot show. We obviously talk we discuss things out loud, but the real power comes and actually being able to be quiet, listen to the clips, listen to these individuals, talk about their work and then reflect on it and discuss it afterwards.
That for me, feels like the how you and I interpret this law. How did you find Robert Green's law? In, in that clip?
Mike Parsons: It takes me back to other things that we've learned in the show, which is be the last to speak, that has been a huge lesson in leadership that's coming back active listening.
When you mentioned Simon Sinek, eating [00:27:00] last speaking the last humble acts that empower others. But what he's also saying here is listen. And understand what the person's saying. Don't speak to convince someone otherwise, pause, wait, listen, digest process, clarify, qualify what they're saying before, offering your opinion.
I think this is really powerful and some might take this as don't say very much and be mysterious and intimidating. Maybe that is a by-product in some cases, but there's nothing. Better than when you're speaking with someone and you're knowing that. Quiet and they're fully captivated in what you're saying.
It feels good when someone's really paying attention,
Mark Pearson Freeland: right? Yeah. It, it does. And again like you just touched upon, it's a good demonstration of Robert Greene's work here. He might be saying it from a, you stay quiet, you look intimidating and maybe cool, but I [00:28:00] think you're right. What the truth and the power of this law and where I think it's a real moonshot way of thinking.
Is the active listening piece. If you're quiet, confusing others by talking too much, you're not even, you're not confusing yourself by convincing. When you say something out loud, you're convincing yourself that it's correct. And I think this idea of right, instead of being able to respond to the person through active listening and asking why you are providing a solution too quickly, you don't know the problem solution, whether it's in business or at home.
By giving yourself a moment to pause, to ask why. And there's lots and lots of mental frameworks that you and I, that we broken down on the moonshot show, as well as the master series around how to ask good questions and solve problems and make good decisions. But I think where Robert Green's really coming from here is just taking a moment, being quiet, reflecting what the other person's saying, and maybe asking why you are going to become more powerful [00:29:00] because you're going to be better informed.
Mike Parsons: It is so true. And I think in this day and age, I think, There's not a lot of listening actually happening. It feels like the world's a little bit polarized, feels like everyone's shouting their points across and there's no real common ground. I think, listen, just start with listening.
What a great thing. But man, we are not done with Robert Green. There's still a ton more what's next on this journey into the 48
Mark Pearson Freeland: laws of power. We're now going to skip a few laws. Like I said, at the beginning of the show, we're not going to have time to go into absolutely every single one or Robert Greene's 48 laws.
So listeners, please go out and check it out online. And we can have a link in the show notes to all 48, but the next one that we're going to dig into Mike, which I think is a real moonshots classic. Good consistent thought is the idea of being your own master the master of your own image. So let's hear from Robert Greene again, discussing one of his laws from the 48 laws of power this time [00:30:00] about how you can recreate yourself.
There is again, no reversal do not accept the roles that society foists upon. You. You have the ability to be the master of your own image? One of the most empowering in-laws in the book,
Robert Greene: right? It should be. Basically we talked about that feeling of having no control and how miserable it is really related to that.
It's the feeling that I'm trapped in this role in life. That is not of my own choosing that people see me as a writer or a secretary, or when. And it's not what I want to be. And that's how everybody judges me and you feel trapped and you have no power or control the opposite of that is this feeling that you can be, whatever you want.
You can recreate yourself. Suddenly have a different persona. You can change your personality.
Mark Pearson Freeland: By the way, one of the actual other laws is you can act like the [00:31:00] king already. So in a sense I found those two working together. You can recreate yourself and the other law was be Royal already. So maybe that's what you need to recreate
Robert Greene: yourself into completely.
The power game is all about psychology. It's not about money. It's not about who you can push around. It's all about psychology and it begins in how you think of yourself,
Mike Parsons: how you think of yourself. This is the great empowering message that we've seen. Time and time again, Napoleon hill, he says, think and grow rich, Stephen Covey, his body of work.
In fact, what we see is so moonshots here is that you do not have to be true. In a position in a role in life, you can be your own master. And the thing that determines if you will succeed at that is how you think about yourself and that you have. What I think is really important is that you have an [00:32:00] invitation to recreate yourself in the image.
That you want to be so dream big and then live the life of that dream. Don't just Harbor this dream of I'd really like to be someone like this and see it only as a dream or a thought that you entertain in those quiet moments. You can shift by not only dreaming that, but then launch yourself into action to be that, to think it, to feel it every single day.
I think this is very much, this is the least evil of all of
Mark Pearson Freeland: well, and it does feel as you've already touched upon some of the authors and the moonshots, as we've covered very consistent with this idea of being the best version of yourself, having the choice. The moment of ownership and the empowerment to go out and make that change is only something that we can really do for ourselves.
I'm also reminded of Adam Grant the think again, [00:33:00] book that we've covered and even the series on habits. Mike, I think this law recreate yourself can be applied to anybody who wants to get into a more efficient or better habits use of time. Their energy, whether it's about thinking or even physical behavior, it does feel to me as a real reminder that each, every single one of us, each of us can actually go out, wake up, make an active change in how we maybe use our phones or digital devices, how we keep journals, whatever it might be.
We can all make that proactive choice to go out and be their best version of ourselves today, because who else is going to do it for?
Mike Parsons: That's true. So you talked about some of the habits that, that help you recreate yourself, but let's go even earlier in the process for a second. And Robert Green mentioned, you don't have to be trapped, but I think we come across situations where we ourselves feel trapped or where we see family and friends are [00:34:00] trapped in a way of thinking in a way of being.
Why do you think that happens? Why do you think people get trapped in a certain way of living maybe a certain type of job that is not really their true desire. It's not what they want to be is not who they want to be, but people get trapped. Why do we get
Mark Pearson Freeland: trapped? I think it's a. For me, at least when I think about anybody I've known, who feels like they're in a situation that they don't really love for them putting up with it.
I think people are afraid of changing the status quo because they haven't taken the time to really think about what it is that they want to do or who they want to be. So sometimes I think a moment of inactivity comes from not having the direction figured out. So without knowing what it is that you want to go and do or how you want to feel or how you want to behave[00:35:00] essentially Simon Sinek, without having a reason why it's hard to then choose how and what you want to go and do.
Mike Parsons: So you're if I understand, you're just saying, look, in the end, people will endure living a life. That's not their true life, living and working or being in a situation. That's not what they really choose for, but they almost except. A bad situation. They live with a bad situation because of the perceived risk of change.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, that's right. And a unwillingness to spend the time to write, maybe turn that microphone around or the magnifying glass and start looking at themselves. I think a lot of people are paralyzed by the idea of not upsetting the apple cart and thinking, I'm okay as I am, but actually the truth is we can all grow and you and I, and our [00:36:00] listeners, we're all growing week by week show by show, by digging into these different moonshots and entrepreneurs and individuals.
And I think for a lot of us, it takes a little bit of time until we're willing to accept that. Yeah, we can grow and change.
Mike Parsons: Fascinating stuff. So let's just recap a little bit on what we've learnt so far from Robert Green author of the 48 laws of power.
Mark Pearson Freeland: First of all, Mike, we've heard about not outshining the master about the most common power mistake that Robert Greene believes that exists.
We don't necessarily need, we don't need to make others feel insecure. We then heard about taking control of our listening. We can talk, but also we can learn by asking questions and actively listening. Don't be perhaps the loudest person. And just then we heard about this idea of empowerment ownership.
Choice by not being trapped in your own situation. This psychology of palette as Robert Green [00:37:00] discussed, we do have one more law. Mike, I really want us to dig into which I think is a slightly brand new area for us in the moonshot show.
Mike Parsons: Yeah, I I like where we've got to first. I just want to reiterate, you've touched upon the journey so far confidence in ourselves, control of our circumstance, being humble, listening, always recreating yourself, living the life that you dream, but we've got a really new idea here.
And you know what Robert Green does is he reframes. Success in a way that we've not heard before in the show. So let's get into it. This is Robert Green and Barry Kubrick talking about success. I do
Mark Pearson Freeland: not go past the mark. You aimed for it because in that victory is when you can start to gain problems that you weren't
Robert Greene: expecting.
I did a lot of research for this book [00:38:00] and the theme would repeat. Over and over and over again, throughout history of the ruler, the country, the empire that became drunk on its own success. And didn't know when to stop. It's almost inhuman to know when to stop. And the thing is that the theme I'm talking about is that sometimes success is the worst thing that can happen.
'cause you don't you suddenly lose a sense of what it is that actually happened that led to your success. Sometimes it's luck. Sometimes it's something that you did, but you're not really aware of what you did and you only think of your success and you get drunk on it and you go and you keep doing more and more and you, it ends up in a disaster.
And so there's an expression that the Japanese have it, but it's an all cultures. The moment you have success or victory, that's the time to step in. Calm down, reassess where you are and in fact consolidate and not go ahead because you're headed towards the disaster
Mark Pearson Freeland: otherwise. Yeah. I really liked this one, Mike this [00:39:00] idea of stopping when you've had enough where you've reached your goal in mind, because if you go that much further, you're essentially feeling too confident, is the right word.
Isn't it drunk?
Mike Parsons: You can imagine Ryan holiday, the author of ego is the enemy just being environment agreement here.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Don't you think? I totally agree. I totally agree. But what's really interesting as I think about this law and what it means to me. Sure. There's been many times I'm sure. Within my career where we've perhaps pushed too far and we've tried to surf the wave.
Maybe is it gets too close to the land or maybe with Icarus, flying towards the sun too much. There's obviously all these great classic fairytales and so on. What I really and that stands out to me though, as Robert Green's breaking down this law, it's the idea of. Having enough time to reflect on how you got to that moment of success.[00:40:00]
Cause you're going, you're continually moving forward. And without a moment, as we've heard from Matthew McConaughey and his book, green lights where he'd recently where
Mike Parsons: I was going. Yeah, exactly.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Yes. It's a great moment of reflection. And without being able to reflect on where you've gone, you haven't really.
Enjoyed the journey or learn any lessons. And I think that's a real moment of that's a missed opportunity for those who continue far down the line without pausing for breath and reflecting backwards.
Mike Parsons: I totally agree. And I like this kind of challenge that when you're full of ego and hubris at your own success, He's saying that is exactly the moment that you achieve and that you feel like patting yourself on the back and saying, geez, I'm good.
Gosh, I did a good job here, you stop. And that should be a signal for a
Mark Pearson Freeland: [00:41:00] reset. And there's been times Mike, for you and I where we've reached the end of a project. And we do, we actively take a moment to sit back and do it almost like a retrospective. And we think about, okay what really went well, what didn't work so well, what are we going to go and do next?
And it's such a valuable business tool and way of reflecting on processes, strategy. And so on that, I think it's for those who don't do it, it does feel like a huge missed signpost because how else are you going to learn?
Mike Parsons: That's exactly right. And what I would what I would say is that Matthew McConaughey made this really good point.
He talked about the fact that, you should go back and reflect on your journal, not just write it in the moment, but go back to it and reflect on it. So you can understand when things are good, you should be journaling because then you can deconstruct what am I doing? When things are [00:42:00] going well.
Oh my gosh. Here's an interesting thing. I've generally slept better at night and I tend to have a better week. Oh, that's really interesting. Look at my journal. I talk about that. Fascinating. Oh, whenever I talk about working with this one person, I don't seem to be very happy. Oh my gosh. So again, the power of reflection.
And when we are successful using that as a moment to reflect, because we often, as Matthew McConaughey said, we often journal when we're in it, when we've got a big problem, when stuff isn't going well, and what is hitting the fan, that's when we tend to journal. What we're seeing here is that Robert Green is also of the same mind when you achieve success.
That's the perfect moment to pause. Don't discharge on like your super. Pause reflect. And what I like here, my own special build here is always to try and find well. What did we do? Or what did [00:43:00] I do in order to achieve this outcome? Can I look at a habit or an approach or a certain tactic that I was using that seemed to contribute here and how might I embody that on a daily basis so that I'm just, building up the compound interest in getting better every single day.
What do you think?
Mark Pearson Freeland: I like that's a great. You're right. If you can identify whether it's a small things such as I sent meeting notes, or I gave somebody a pat on the back all the way through to having maybe a as huge pivotal role in a project or a bit of work, I think you're totally right. If you can identify through reflection, what it is that you think made a really good impression and positively impacted the work that you and your colleagues did, you can.
Reiterate it grow on it repeated. I think that's a really smart way of putting into action. Exactly what Robert Green's really talking about there. And I like this build from there, from [00:44:00] you about Matthew McConaughey and reflecting on journals. And I think it's really true without looking back at the journals.
You won't necessarily know. What you've where your Headspace was because you always sorry. You, I always feel as though my the situation are way better than I think in the future. So if I'm looking back at a particular project, I'll be maybe reflecting with rose, tinted spectacles, as they say, how else?
And I'll think, oh, I did great job then, because the project was so successful without having an accurate. History book. I may be a journalist. I won't be able to accurately reflect back so well. So it feels to me like a perfect tool that then puts you into the position that Robert Green is really discussing with.
Do not past the mark. You're aiming for, because otherwise, where else do you know when to stop?
Mike Parsons: That's so true. That's so true. So if you're [00:45:00] enjoying this, you should definitely head over to the Matthew McConaughey episode. So just head to moonshots.io and dig into the world of Matthew McConaughey and green lights.
It was a really big on this idea of reflection, but we ain't quite done yet. Are we mark? I think we can sneak out one last Robert Glint green clip. Before we ask the question. Good or evil, but mark, why don't you set up this last
Mark Pearson Freeland: clip for us? That's right. As we heard from rubber green at the beginning, he introduced to us this idea of what power really means to him and why we should reevaluate what power means to us.
So let's hear from Robert Green, following the laws that we were able to dig into today and how we should all be able to consider, to take time, to take ownership, to examine ourselves day to day.
Robert Greene: The notion that you, that permeates my books is that you are responsible for the things that happen in your life.
You're the agent of what is good [00:46:00] and what is bad. And when something bad happens to you, your natural tendency. We'll be to look out in the world and blame this person, blame your mother, your father, your wife, your boss. But in fact, there's always a kernel of yourself that is to blame for what happened.
And so the process that's involved in this that I talk about in the book, as you look at yourself and you examine how, perhaps something, you did, something, you said something in your planning with. And that was what caused this problem. And that should be a liberating thing, because what that means is you have power.
You're not dependent on mommy or daddy or boss or whomever to please you, to make you to bring you what you want. You are the one responsible for it. So when you're looking at yourself and analyzing yourself, it's not with this heaviness of, oh my gosh, I'm just such an awful person. And I hate myself.
It's with. It's I can change this. I can go at this. I won't make the same mistake before I will look at my past and [00:47:00] reassess it and see that I did this at this one, critical crossroad in life. I made this mistake. I will not make it again. And I think that should not be a heaviness. It's a kind of a light.
Mike Parsons: Not heavy, but actually a light feeling. And jeez, you hear him speak there, mark and who would have known that this is the same guy who wrote the book that some people said this will turn you into alone, broke a loser. It's evil be scared, stay away from people. Personalities described in this book.
48 laws of deceit. Someone else writes on Amazon. Isn't it fascinating. We just listened to the author, talking about the book that people were referring to as evil. It is so fascinating.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, it is. It was referred to as the psychopaths Bible
but for me and I think we'll make the case in a minute for me, just hearing Robert Greene in that [00:48:00] final clip there, reminding of. That we do have the power to look at ourselves to reflect on ourselves much like we were talking about just prior to the last clip there, thinking about journaling and how we reflect on the actions that we do, as well as thinking about our impact in certain projects or bits of work, it should be an opportunity for us to write.
In the reflection and almost look forward to it and think, Hey, what did I do? What did I what could I improve on? It's fun when you give yourself that almost like a little project and reflection, it feels, yeah. Emission it's actually. And when I hear Robert Green doing it, it makes total sense.
It makes real active sense.
Mike Parsons: It certainly does. If you take one of the earlier clips where you said you, you have the invitation to recreate yourself, so it doesn't matter if you stuffed up something you can always look at that. Point of learning and a turning [00:49:00] point where you can go. Okay. At that critical juncture, I didn't make the right decision. Let's unpack it. Let's learn it and let's make sure that I don't do it again. And wow. I just got better. And this was something that Zaha had did she just was the embodiment of the. Every mistake, every challenge was just making her stronger.
And that is a moonshot way of thinking that is the moonshot mindset. I would argue that you examine yourself, you recreate yourself. Continuously, when you say
Mark Pearson Freeland: mark, I totally agree. Carol Dweck with the growth mindset. Oh yeah. Great reference. Yeah, totally. There's this idea of continually revisiting the things that maybe trip us up.
We had Angela Duckworth with grit as well, slightly more resilience focused, but she was still very orientated around looking back at how you react to things in order to learn. When you
Mike Parsons: tell them about. You talk about Angela Duckworth. She basically found it wasn't the smartest [00:50:00] or the most talented people that succeeded.
It was those that were in this continuous examination. Resilience just took challenges, made them stronger, took mistakes, made them into learnings. She said that was the most powerful predetermining factor of success was doing exactly what Robert Green is talking about here.
Mark Pearson Freeland: And so for those listeners who are wondering, what's Robert Green talking about in all of these, feel free to revisit at any number of our previous shows, because I think Mike, I'm starting to see a lot of science as well as history within Robert Green.
Laws that really help point us in the direction of continuous improvement, learning from our mistakes, this idea of resilience, but also how to become slightly better and more honest in what you do.
Mike Parsons: My w we've entered into the world or the 48 [00:51:00] laws of power. We've been able to see the fine line that he dances in this really looking at those animal spirits that determined the reality of how life really is.
And the world of imperfection and the world of people being, really. Around us really driven by perhaps most selfish motives. And he's given us a path for confidence and empowerment. How do you process this? I know. There's certainly some crazy laws in the book that we didn't get into.
What's this one poses, a friend work as a spy crush. You're in enemy. Totally. But in what we've studied today, I guess the first question is there some good, at least in this book, the 48 laws
Mark Pearson Freeland: of power? I personally believe that there is, I think that there's a, if you step back. From the 48 laws of power and really consider what Robert Green's trying to communicate [00:52:00] in.
Let's be honest, some pretty direct perhaps derisive laws, including the couple that you just read out. He's trying to spark a debate as well as an awakening. He's trying to say to us, You are in control. You have the opportunity to be powerful in your life. If you want to you don't need to follow all 48 laws.
You don't have to be somebody who follows them directly. Exactly. If you weren't inspired, like I have been from Robert Greene's laws, we've obviously only covered for today, but I'm accurately. Inspired by them. I'm just starting to see connections with some of the other moonshot is some of the other lessons that we've learned on the show, particularly with recreate yourself as well as be inspiring brand new ways.
For example, do not past the mark. You're aiming for in victory. Learn when to stop what a great reiteration of some of the behaviors that maybe we do with work. Don't necessarily[00:53:00] actively take a moment to pause and reflect on. I personally think that this has provided a good case for Robert Green's the 48 laws of power to be within the moonshots library.
How did it feel to you going through it all today and pre.
Mike Parsons: Oh, listen, I definitely had a little bit of a discomfort with this notion of power. Is it a bit macular Vallian? I certainly think that you can pick your favorite laws and find a whole lot of goodness in them. Mark, and I just want to say.
Thank you to you for helping us navigate this. I certainly got a lot out of it and thank you to you, our listeners, let us know. What do you think, which of the laws work for you? Join the conversation@moonshots.io, or if you're a member, just jump into the members area and post all your thoughts, comments, and we can discuss.
But they have it, everyone that is show 168, the 48 laws of power by Robert Green. And we started this with really the [00:54:00] notion of confidence and control that everyone wants to be empowered. And you should never outshine the master, which is just another way of saying, be humble, be a servant to. And always say less than necessary.
Yes. We've always known that it's good to listen first. And then Robert Green really brought it home with an empowering message that you can always recreate yourself. You're never out of the game. And when you at the top of your game, don't let your ego get in control. That's a great moment to pause and reflect, and if you continue to reflect, and if you continue to examine yourself, these are low.
The messages of author, Robert Greene, you truly can be the best version of yourself, which is exactly what we're doing here at the moonshots podcast. All right, everybody, that's it for the show. That's a wrap.