Mark Manson: The subtle art of not giving a f*ck
EPISODE 167
Mark Manson says most of us struggle throughout our lives by giving too many f’s in situations where f’s do not deserve to be given. Finding something important and meaningful in your life is the most productive use of your time and energy.
This is true because every life has problems associated with it and finding meaning in your life will help you sustain the effort needed to overcome the particular problems you face. In his book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, we can say that the key to living a good life is not giving a f’s about more things, but rather, giving a f- only about the things that align with your personal values.
PARENTAL WARNING: SWEARING
INTRO
Gary Vee and Mark Manson introduce the Subtle Art
Values help you compartmentalize (1m43
AWARENESS AND VISION
Mark Manson and The Diary of a CEO discuss how to not give a fxxx about adversity by first giving a Fxxx about something more important
Figure out what you want (3m01)
Gary Vee and Mark Manson and how not giving a Fxxx doesn’t mean indifference; it means being comfortable with being different
Addiction to moral righteousness (3m06)
BEHAVIOUR
Mark Manson and The Diary of a CEO describes the need for ethical behaviour and paying attention to who you give it to
Treat people well (3m33)
OUTRO
Productivity Game and how we should be aware of how far we can push ourselves in order to succeed
What pain can I sustain (2m)
READING
Mark Manson: The Subtle Art of Not Giving A F*ck
CLIP CREDITS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuuDztcqnko&ab_channel=TheDiaryOfACEO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzv4DYgcoGk&ab_channel=GaryVee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPW4rqKkekA&ab_channel=ProductivityGame
TRANSCRIPT
Mike Parsons: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode 167. I'm your co-host Mike Parsons. And as always I'm joined by Mr. Mindful himself. Mr. Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning. Hey,
Mark Pearson Freeland: Good morning, Mike. And I tell you what if mindfulness and mindsets and directional thinking is the thing that you and I, and all of our listeners are getting ready to dig into today.
I think we've got a real powerhouse of an episode of an author and a way of thinking to kick off quite frankly, Mike, a brand new series.
Mike Parsons: A new series. It's always good. And frankly, it's taken us way too long to get to this author and his work. So mark, let's jump straight into it.
Mark Pearson Freeland: That's right listeners today in show 167, we are kicking off a brand new mindset series with the subtle art of not giving out by Mr.
Mark Manson. That quite frankly, a lot of us are probably aware of. I certainly have been aware of it (his Book) for a number of years. Maybe Mike, partly down to the title. I think certainly when I was younger, when it first came out, I probably. To be honest, dismissed it because it was a little bit confrontational or controversial with the title, but really digging into it, digging into the work of Mark Manson following him and really getting into the book.
I think there are some real essential lessons and tips and tricks within the subtle art that you and I and our listeners can really learn from. I think it's actually a very moonshot.
Mike Parsons: Yeah, I really find that he's got this almost sneaky way of getting us to talk about our values, which is something I think we neglect a lot.
I think with all the best intentions of the world, you still need [00:02:00] to put some time and effort in asking yourself, how do I want to behave in this. How do I want to be? What type of person do I want to be? And he's work in the satellite really crosses over some really interesting ideas that we've touched on the show.
Circle of control, circle of influence. It definitely has a big intersection with some of the purpose work of Simon Sinek. And I think what's installed for us mark and all of our listeners is the opportunity in a pretty relaxed way to talk about some things that often feel a little bit heavy. We did a big show series on Jordan Peterson and he came with his like almost.
Biblical command commandment ideas, Manson just comes at the same subject in a totally different way. It's really refreshing. And I can't wait to get into it really thinking about how we want to treat others, how we want to work with people, how we want to [00:03:00] focus ourselves on finding what Mike Mason calls, the good life.
Mark Pearson Freeland: That's right. I think Mike you've set us up perfectly and I think you're right. It's really around finding meaning in life. Isn't it finding a productive use of your time and energy and being able to choose the things that you do. Care about. So Mike, why don't we launch straight into our first clip and introduction with Mark Manson and he's joined with another moonshot at Mr. Gary V and they're going to help us understand and discuss values, helping you to compartmentalize your focuses.
Mike Parsons: What
Gary Vee: is the 1, 2, 3 sentence recap of the subtle art of not giving a fuck the 2016 books that went bananas?
Mark Manson: Basically it's I always joke that it's a book about values, but it, if I told people it was a book about values, nobody would read it.
So you got put fuck in the title and kind of trick people into it. But you just,
Gary Vee: You do realize you just completely in two [00:04:00] sentences, My entire career, I would argue two seconds. Here's the thing, Gary
Mark Manson: here. Here's the thing, man. And I think you and I landed in this spot for the same reason because you and I live in breathe and eat and sleep the online social media world and what you quickly discover when you're in that world is that there's an infinite amount of stuff out there.
And so if you don't figure out. Val, if you don't discover values to sort that stuff, if you don't figure out principles of this is what matters to me, this is what's important to me. And this is just crap that I'm going to ignore. You're going to drown. And I quickly to see, coming from a self-help angle.
I quickly discovered that a lot of my generation's problems, a lot of the anxiety and depression and stress that my generation goes through. It comes from just not figuring out what those values are. What are those sorting [00:05:00] mechanisms in your life
Gary Vee: when you don't have your own, you're grabbing onto people's grabbing to others.
You're completely succumbing to outside affirmation. And the second you are living for outside affirmation, it's getting.
Mike Parsons: Game over and there are so many distractions, so many things competing for our ID, our Headspace, our attention, our engagement I think where we're really going to hear is if you want to filter the world around you and.
You want to operate successfully in a culture that is always connected in an online, you need to know your values. And that's another way of just saying how you want to behave in the world. What's acceptable? What's not what you're going to care about, what you're not going to care about. And. That's certainly some magic that Gary V and Mark Manson are bringing also warning for any parents out there.
We will minimize any of [00:06:00] these F bombs. But I think we got most of them out of the way.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, that's right. I think the apart from all the F-bombs from mark and Gary, I think the core crux and why I think it's a really nice little intro. There is, as Mark himself says. It is a book about values.
And as you say, Mike, a book about finding that foundational element of how we do things and what makes or impacts our decision-making. And the truth is we don't spend a lot of time doing this. We it's something that's come up through. Some of our other shows how much time we spend on thinking and.
Making decisions critical thinking as well. It's yeah, it is something that we deprioritize in favor of other things and other distractions. Isn't it?
Mike Parsons: It is. And for me, it reminds me. What Mark Manson does in this book and what we've already started to hear, it's very akin to what Simon Sinek did [00:07:00] when he asked the question why, and he has that famous YouTube clip of, he explains the why of apple and thinking different, and. How he's challenged to people in companies was to ask why do you exist? What's your purpose in the same way? Mark Manson is saying, look, there were so many. Bad ideas that can get into your brain. Now you have so much access to news information, big, good, or bad, or otherwise that essential to you, feeling good in yourself is knowing your values and sticking to them.
And I think that opens up. That is the perfect opener, not only for the show, but for our mindset series mark. And I'll tell you what else has perfect. Damn perfect. And that's all of our members, those moons shoulders. They're pretty perfect.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah, they are pretty darn perfect. So Mike, as is now customary in our shows, shall I do a [00:08:00] little bit of a, around a round table and a roll call for all of our members and subscribers and Patriot?
Mike Parsons: I think this sounds great. And I think we just want to celebrate all of you who are supporting us on this mission to share our moonshots modeled. Really learn out loud together and find out how we can be the best version of ourselves. So mark, give us a roll call, take it away.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Drum roll, please.
These are our favorite members, subscribers who are each receiving, as we say, a lunar power dose of good karma, as well as our, thanks from myself, Mike and the moonshots family, greetings to Paul Maria said, and Lisa. Daniella spaceman, Yasmeen and Rodrigo Connor marsh and mark, and Byron, Tom DMR, Ken and marshaling, Nile and Brighty, Terry and John kneels and Bob who I'm going to need.
So I have a longer breath next,
Mike Parsons: online. [00:09:00] Yeah. Want to thank all of you? Our members who support us and help us pay our bills. Hosting transcription and the list goes on and on. And it takes quite a lot of effort to, just to be at the show these days we have just on the podcast version alone we had last month, 53.
Thousand listeners. So for the few that have put themselves forward and supported us, we really appreciate it. It really does help us pull the show together. So thank you for being a member. And listen, if you're a member, you get access to the moonshot master series, which is exclusively and only for our members.
And if you'd like to support us, get some of that lunar powered, good luck, or if you would love to listen to our moonshots master series, which are epic 90 minutes studies of the essential oils to be the very best version of yourself. Head over to moonshots.io. Click on [00:10:00] the big member button. Join in the conversation here at moonshots dot.
Mark, are you ready to confront some of these big topics that Mark Manson has to bring to?
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think so, Mike, I think so. And as we've already heard from that intro clip with Mark, it's really not a book about destruction disregarding absolutely everything in life. And let's say behaving as though you don't have a care in the world, it really is around identifying that foundation.
Being behind how you make decisions and those values that matter to you. And this next clip, Mike, we're going to hear from Mark Manson again, as well as a great speaker, the diary of a CEO, who's going to discuss a little bit about adversity and understand. What challenges or what influences your decision making in your life and what Mark's going to say within this next clip is helping you and I, and our listeners really help figure out what [00:11:00] it is that we want and identify perhaps our values and why we do things.
So let's hear from Mark Manson again, on how we can figure out what.
Steven Bartlett: One of the things you talk about when we're talking about, deciding what you want to do with your life, whether it's a business, we're going to be a pickup artist or whatever it is. Is this the importance of asking the question, why?
And in the society and culture we live in, especially one that's so driven by comparison where your values are almost being handed to you by Instagram and the Kardashians. This is how this is what you should value. I almost, I've almost felt I remember one day a kid came up to me after I did this, like big talk on stage and he said, I want to be a public speaker.
17 and you're thinking, but you've got nothing.
really what he's saying is he doesn't wanna be a public speaker. He wants the admiration. He thinks public speakers get, probably because he's insecure and. So many kids, including myself as a young kid, we don't actually know what we want. We have no fucking clue, but what we probably want is not to be insecure and get laid at the harder there.
And the pursuit of that as you've [00:12:00] described, takes us down a dark alley to the wrong place, usually a dead end as well. So how do I figure out what I actually want in my life, without it being Kardashian noise or Instagram? What does what do I want and how do I find out?
Mike Parsons: I think.
Mark Manson: So it's a tricky thing, right?
Because again, I think you cook, you have to get it right. It's like the relationships you need to get a couple wrong before you know how to get it right. And I think it's the same in pursuing a career or finding a purpose in life. Like you, you need to get it wrong a couple of times because we're experts at tricking ourselves.
It's like that kid, he wants admiration. But if you ask them in his head, he's no. I'm just really passionate about communicating with people. I love people, and we all do that to ourselves. We all, like we find the admirable narrative to explain what we're, what we want in the world.
So I think you need to go through, you need to hit a couple of dead ends, it's like that kid, he probably should go get on stage and. [00:13:00] Give the speeches and get the applause and then realize that the applause doesn't solve anything, that he's still just as insecure as he was before.
Because then once, once he does that, then he'll be ready to ask that question of like, why do I want to do that? Like, why am I really doing this? It's almost a question you have to answer. And a lot of ways are interesting, and I feel like a lot of people, they just want to start there and it's no, you have to like, because look, we're all like the Kardashians thing, right?
Like the reason that stuff is so popular is because we're wired to value it. We're wired to want that as we're wired, to want to be beautiful and sexy, and we're wired to want to impress others. That's never going to go away. The question is what do you want once that is removed from the equation.
But I think mentally to be able to remove it from the equation, you have to try to get some of it first and see that it doesn't work.
Mike Parsons: Yeah, figuring out what you want. And I think [00:14:00] Mike, he's basically an old classic moonshots thinking saying there ain't no shortcut, you gotta work it out. And I think you have to ask some big questions as you learn and reflect on life.
I think that's, I think that's so important. And something I'm figuring out is that we don't spend nearly enough time.
Mark Pearson Freeland: No I think you're right. And what it sparks in my mind when I'm hearing Mark Manson give this piece of advice, or at least this acknowledgement for this young guy who wants to go out and maybe try something just because he wants the admiration is we don't really know what it is that.
Wants and what we don't want. And I think in the example that we heard in that clip, it's a good one. When you learn from that experience, from that mistake, from that perhaps just experience in general, whether it's positive or negative. And I think the reason why that's a really good way of doing things is [00:15:00] because we don't spend enough time experiencing or thinking about experiencing those opportunities.
Getting up on stage or maybe getting in a room presenting to a team or colleagues or whoever it might be and realizing, okay this hasn't quite worked out for me, or maybe this isn't something that I really enjoy. I think I have a feeling that it might be easy to really reflect on it before getting up on stage.
Maybe it is something that is a good way of experiencing something physically. Because you haven't thought about it in advance. Does that make sense? But maybe the, I think without reflection, it's hard to really know what the doesn't matter
Mike Parsons: to you. Yeah. And the way I try to do this mark is I just try to reflect in order to.
Live a life that is as close to my [00:16:00] dream life so differently. What I'm trying to do in terms of figuring out what I really want and how I want to act in the world. What I tried to do is imagine how you would live? Let's take work, for example, how would you spend your time? And invest your time if you don't need to work in order to earn an income.
Okay. Because once you remove that, then you would pursue what you really want. Correct. Absolutely. So this is a really interesting step to take. Okay. So imagine I didn't need to pay the rent. Okay. Then what would I do with my time? What would I be working on? And I tried. To get every time I do new things in life and work to make the thing that I'm doing, a mirror image of what I would do if I didn't need to pay the [00:17:00] rent and it's not perfect, but the attempt is to get those things, to look and feel as close as each other as possible.
And I think that this is. Done through the act of saying, I feel really good when I do these things. Something doesn't feel right about these things or I've tried and I've tried and yeah, this thing's just not working, asking yourself why is it not working? And how might I do it differently? It's almost like life is this marathon of iteration, reflection, test and learning.
And for me, at least I'm trying to hit the target of doing exactly what I was born to do, which I like to do, which doesn't, it's not always easy, but it's very rewarding and satisfying. How do you try and figure out what you want? Like, [00:18:00] how do you follow up on this thought from Mark Manson, author of the subtle art?
Like, how do you apply that?
Mark Pearson Freeland: Yeah I actually love what you've just said, which is finding the thing that you enjoy or that you were born to do. It might actually not be the easiest thing. So I think there's a perhaps a distraction that we might see from the media, social media even movies where a life of doing nothing is desirable when.
There's a lot of value that you can get out of just doing something, whether it's learning out loud, whether it's reading, whether it's helping others perform in their lives. I think this is a really interesting little point of difference, really, because if you realize that. You get a cake or you get value out of doing something that's productive rather than just sitting around on a beach, getting a suntan.
I think that's a great [00:19:00] demonstration of the fact that you've found your value and want to go out and do something. And that's the thing that you give up about as momentum would say. I think for me, Mike, Understand or helping me learn what drives me and what it is that I do. And don't want to do is a mixture of different techniques and practices.
Actually, some of which we've talked about on the show, some of which we haven't, but for me, it really stems down from giving yourself enough time to reflect. On whether an action today or last week gave me some, meaning some value to my day and said better. If I reflect on a lot of work that I've done, let's just use a small timeframe.
Let's say 12 months, if you can sit down and look back and say this is what I did. Did that provide many jobs? Maybe [00:20:00] the joy was, it made me laugh. Maybe it was that it helped me learn a new skill. Maybe it helped me address a weakness w avoiding uncomfort, maybe it gave me a platform to go out and experience something really difficult if you give yourself enough time.
And if I've given myself enough time to reflect on those things, I start to realize would that was really good, even though, maybe at the time. It wasn't maybe or something that was really unpleasant. Maybe it was difficult. Maybe it made me feel uncomfortable. Maybe it even made me feel very distracted.
If you can look back and you can reflect and if I can think, okay was that a positive experience though? And the answer is yes. Then you start to almost look forward to going out and trying something new because it might show you something else that you didn't realize. Yeah.
Mike Parsons: So I think, as we go into the journey of the subtle art by Matt Manson, I really would bring us all back to something.
[00:21:00] We talked a lot about with Matthew McConaughey, which is journaling. If you want to figure out your values, want to figure out what you want from life. I believe in journaling. And is Joe. A daily practice that will bring you so much insight and so much wellbeing. And I think that's really that unlocks the best version of yourself and mark, what I would propose to you, something that also unlocks the best version of yourself is as you're listening to the moonshot show you open up your Spotify or your apple podcast app, and you give us a thumbs up, give us a give us a heart.
Maybe if you're really excited. Throw in a review because that would be a hugely positive experience, but it also, it's going to help us to.
Mark Pearson Freeland: That's right. And now with all the podcasting apps, it's much, much easier for you, our listeners to go out and leave a review or leave a bit of a rating and let us know what you think.
And it does, Mike. It really helps us [00:22:00] spread the word of the moonshots message. Lunar power dose of out loud, learning into the hands and the palms of many people around the world. And, but it's all down to you, our listeners, it's how you share. It's how you react rate and how you react and review to the show and your input.
No matter how small it might feel makes a huge difference down the line. The butterfly wing really does make a difference on a large scale. Doesn't it. Mike
Mike Parsons: Showed us. So folks, if you're listening to this show, On your phone or on your PC in Spotify or apple podcast, just go to the show, see all the shows that we publish and you can hit the star rating.
You can hit the heart. You can even write something. If you're really excited, we'd really appreciate it because it helps more people discover the show. It helps more people learn out loud together with us. Now coming back to mark Manson and the subtle. [00:23:00] We're really circling around this issue of what are our values.
Some people talk about these as being almost your morals, but it's effectively how you want to behave in the world. And right now, we're seeing. A world in which we have so much access to the good things that happen in the world. And sometimes the bad things too. And we have a choice about how we react to this and, mark Manson has some really good insights in this conversation with Gary V.
That, maybe we're all becoming a bit addicted to moral righteousness.
Mark Manson: It's also just the world that we live in now. Like it's, we're exposed to so many other people all the time. And so many other people are exposed to us that it's unreasonable to think that everybody who comes across you is going to like you, there's
Gary Vee: a bigger thing.
I love your thought on this. I think we're also in the explosion [00:24:00] of. Popular culture judgment and pushing away as fast as we can. Any level of accountable. So judging fire and accountability, everyone's running away from pointing fingers. Super fun. Copy wise, point grabbing thumbs devastating.
Nobody wants to do and thoughts.
Mark Manson: Absolutely. I want one thing I wrote about when the pandemic started was like, I feel like people have this addiction to like moral righteousness. Like it's actually becoming a problem. Like I think we should become not less moral, but like more amoral like withhold judgment on what is actually good and evil because it's
Gary Vee: because you're the judge when you're the judge and the jury, it's a game of opinions outside of the things that most common sense.
Nice human beings can agree on. I don't think anybody's on the side of murder.
Mark Manson: Yeah, of course. But I think, it's so easy to pass judgment, [00:25:00] like moral judgment on people or groups of people today. And there's so little repercussions. And I think that is we've just we've got this crack addiction to moral righteousness as a culture.
Gary Vee: It makes you feel better.
Mark Manson: When you say
Gary Vee: consequences. Yeah. I think to your point, man, we're going to really nerd out on this. I think it's an indicator of more collective unhappiness because I think we're in a bigger game of outside validation because when you're unhappy, the trigger of carrying somebody, else's building down.
Is an endorphin and maybe not a Dorothy, maybe I'm using is a hit emotionally for you. That helps you prop up in the short term. And it speaks to, it's funny people will blame technology, social media, things of that nature, but I think it really starts to your point back to what you did in 16.
It starts on values. If parents. Raise their [00:26:00] children in, and I'm a capitalist and I'm an entrepreneur, but I love the game. I'm not in it for the Lambo or the watch. And if you're teaching your kids that it's all about those things, like we're going to aspire to get a Mercedes Benz or, you don't, you got to lose 15 pounds because you don't look good or like all these different things.
Everything you're doing to reinforce that the outside world's judgment matters. I'm the greatest beneficiary of a mother who built me the reverse, nothing else mattered, but what happened in our four walls? And are we nice to people and to each other and call it?
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think the big lesson and the big area that mark and Gary VR are focusing in and navigating around there.
Mike is this idea of approval seeking. And I think we're very. It's very easy nowadays to get caught up in a world of social media, 24 hour news, as well as appeasing [00:27:00] your boss or your partners, or going further with your career. It's all about approval seeking. Isn't it. So you're second guessing how somebody else is going to respond or react to you.
So maybe you are intentionally very agreeable or conversely, maybe. You are intentionally very disagree agreeable, and you leave quite scathing reviews or point fingers, and you don't take any blame and instead you pass it out. And I think this is really what the subtle art is helping us navigate around.
It's not only understanding the values that really matter to you, but at the same time, it's helping you realize or helping us realize. Seeking approval from everybody isn't necessarily something that we should care about and be focused on.
Mike Parsons: Yeah. And I think don't fall for the trap of this kind of virtue signaling or this outrage.
So much of what we see online[00:28:00] is designed to trick us and we don't see the full context. So be careful. And I like what Mark Manson said, don't rush to judgment, who are we to know? Like we don't have the full story. And I think what this does from Manson's perspective, it sets us up in a really good place because it's don't fall for those little tricks of moral righteousness online, don't fall for that.
Rather divert your energy towards the things that you can do. You can devote your energy to your career, your business, your time, your money, your health, happiness goals, friends, families, partner, your community. This is where you can be the best version of yourself. And there's lots of ideas, lots of values that you can take to all of those different things in your life.
To be the very best version of yourself. And I think now that we've really set it up, mark, I think we've seen that values are a filter or a checklist that help us operate in the world. They [00:29:00] can be a key to discovering what we really want in life, and let's make sure that we don't fall for some of the traps that the Goodall interwebs and Mark Zuckerberg's tools tend to present to us a little too often.
Let's come back. Let's be prepared to reflect upon ourselves and be the best version of ourselves. Mark, I'm really enjoying the way Mark Manson has brought us to this very practical and ubiquitous challenge of just not being addicted to all the signals on the outside, but getting back to things that are happening on the inside, what do you think?
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think it feels liberating. When you do stop caring about uploading your latest picture onto social media and worried about how many people are going to like it, it is liberating. Isn't it? When you stop caring what everybody else thinks, and you're trying to impress. [00:30:00] It does you, you feel a little bit freer and you're able instead to rather than having to justify yourself to everybody, you think, okay does it make me happy?
Can I reflect on it? And it does. It feels practical as well as empowering actually, when we do stop. Reassessing the things that we do care about, I'm really enjoying, it's quite a surprise, really, despite the confrontational or controversial headline of the subtle art it's very practical. A book that we can, all we can all learn from even now.
Mike Parsons: I totally agree with you. And it sets up the next clip from mark Manson, the author of the subtle art. And we talked about what we don't want to do. But what do we want to do? And how we want to work and interact with friends, family, peers, and colleagues. Don't you worry, Mark Manson's got some thoughts on treating people.
Steven Bartlett: One of the things you say is but your one rule [00:31:00] for life is each person must never be treated only as a means to some other end, but must also be treated as an end to themselves. Please tell me what that means.
Mark Manson: It's a little, it's a little philosophical actually comes from the philosopher con.
It basically means that I think anything that is unethical or unhealthy. It's because we're not, we're treating another person as a means to another end. So if you're using somebody for their money, or if you're manipulating somebody to try to like, get a job or a promotion or something or if you're just straight up like stealing from somebody or lying to them, like in all of those cases, you're true.
You're valuing. Some external thing, whether it's money or a car or prestige more than the person themselves and I, to me, it's just like when I look at every [00:32:00] useful piece of advice, whether in personal development or. Just how to be a good person, you know how to be an ethical person. It all comes right back down to that rule.
Like you, everything you do, it needs to be ultimately for the betterment of yourself, for others, like making yourself a better person and making other people better too. And anytime you deviate from that, you're either going to get into ethical trouble or you're going to get into. Toxic relationships.
Steven Bartlett: If I've got a car that I'm selling and I know that it's faulty, but I invite someone over and I say, this is the best car in the way.
Mark Manson: It's unethical. And you're using that person as a means to an end in a personal development context. It's if you're dating somebody, not really because you like them, but because you want to impress your friends, then you're using that person as a means to some other end.
And it's that relationship is going to go south really fast. Like it's going to get ugly. It's not just [00:33:00] ethical, it's practical, cotton minute, set it in ethical terms, but I just realized that it's like all good personal development advice is essentially the same thing.
It's treat people well, put place people before money before, accolades before attention or status. Like always put people first and. And everything else takes care of itself. And that's
Steven Bartlett: the long-term game, right? The, because in the short term you might sell the car. Yeah. But in the long term, your reputational damage and your general sense of feeling inside.
Mark Manson: Yeah. Which you see all the time in internet businesses, right? Like it's you see those sleazy sales letters that are pushing a questionable product. And sure. Maybe they have a big, $5 million launch, but they've just completely destroyed. Eventually all those people who bought are gonna realize that the product is shit and they're never going to buy from you again.
And so you've, yeah, you [00:34:00] made a bunch millions of dollars up front, but you've completely destroyed your brand and you're going to have to start over from scratch. Whereas if you start with the people in mind and you focus on the good product, the good relationship, giving people good value. You make less money upfront, but then those people stick with you.
Mark Pearson Freeland: Wow, Mike, in using people not as a means to an end treating them well this is some pretty good core essential behavior that kind of makes us all human.
Mike Parsons: Isn't it? It really does. And it leads me to a fun little exercise. I think we can do together, which is okay. So we want to treat someone well, I think notionally, that sounds good, but let's dig into it.
Let's brainstorm a little bit and apply it to our ourselves. Let's apply it to each other. We've dug up a list of 20 values, which are, which all of them are great, but let's do this fun exercise. Let's say you [00:35:00] and I we think this notion. Do we want to treat people well. What would be the key values in treating others?
So I'll let you go first. We've got this list of 20, which one jumps out at you first.
Mark Pearson Freeland: So values that help me treat others. I think. It doesn't it needs to be quite a long term way of thinking in my mind, if I'm going to treat somebody well, I need to be loyal. I need to demonstrate loyalty to them, whether that's my partners, my family, or my colleagues and boss, I feel as though loyalty for me is a pillar that stands up there.
Mike Parsons: I liked that one too. Here's a fun exercise that I use to reinforce or to make a path clear. What is the loyal thing to do here, which is to put the, to swap the situation around, let's say it's a situation between me and somebody else. How would I feel if they [00:36:00] did that to me? Yes. And if, I think note they did meet that would be a solid in my book.
That's a loyal act then that kind of helps me adjust my writer. Yep. That's the right thing to do. It's quite good. If you're not quite sure, let's say it's with your partner. And you're like what if they did that to me? Would that sound, does that feel like the right thing to do
Mark Pearson Freeland: exactly.
So it, before you send a short email or a text or you pick up the phone and have a go at somebody. What if they, if the roles were reversed and they did that to you, how would you feel? Would you feel inspired or would you feel frustrated? Yeah, I totally agree. Mike, having the ability to put the shoe on the other foot, as they say is a really good way of demonstrating or imagining how the other person might experience what it is that you want to say or.
Mike Parsons: Yeah, totally agree. Totally agree. One that jumps out for me is humility because I've sometimes got this bad habit [00:37:00] of getting carried away with what I'm doing, and I love this idea of humility and a good rule for humility is be the last to speak. Yep. Listen, first is just great ways of being humble and coming back to what mark Manson was talking about.
He said you want to treat people well, or this is how you do it. Let's do one more for you. There's a, we've got heaps
Mark Pearson Freeland: of these so many and we will put them up into our show notes as well. Listen to, so you can have a go for me, Mike. One that's really stands out as a moonshots way of thinking, honestly.
The ability to take accountability and ownership over something. Look, there's been times in my career and even relationship with friends and family where I just think, ah, does it matter if I tell the truth here? Maybe it would be less painful for me if I did sugarcoat something, or maybe I point the finger in.
Taking ownership, being [00:38:00] honest, putting your hand up and saying, Hey, sorry guys. I dropped the ball there. I won't do it again. I'll learn from, this is a really a selfless way I think of experiencing and acting to other people so that they feel more comfortable with me. Does that stand out to you?
Mike Parsons: Yeah. I think, being honest with yourself is probably one of the hardest things,
Mark Pearson Freeland: but again, for me, if I'm trying to be honest with myself, it will I'll ask for feedback. From colleagues from other people. Hey, you asked me to be more forthcoming in the few in the past. Have I done that a little bit more really tried or more personally, maybe I'll write it down in a journal and maybe I'll revisit it in a week or a month for a year's time and test and see whether I have in fact changed.
Mike Parsons: Very good practice. Very good practice. Yeah, no, that's great. That's that's really good. Cause we're getting into the hard work of treating people well, [00:39:00] and I think I, you can never spend too much time on this, because sometimes we're just so busy that. We're so focused on what we're doing.
We're not asking ourselves enough. How are we going about it now on that topic? We've got one more thought from Matt Nansen but before we get there, I just want to say if you're thinking about treating people well, I reckon getting yourself a good dose of the moonshots master series would be treating yourself well.
Don't you think. That's
Mark Pearson Freeland: right. Learning out loud and helping us keep the moonshots podcast going down the road and growing week by week, day by day is something that we can only do with you, our listeners. So joining us over moonshots.io, listening to the show, or maybe even better joining us as members or subscribe.
Which you can do through your podcast app of choice, [00:40:00] as well as by moonshots.io and clicking on the members button, you can help us deconstruct the successes of entrepreneurs. You can help us learn about critical thinking leadership as well as personal development. And Mike, I think it's fair to say that you and I and our team always get a lot of value out of the lessons and areas that we could deconstruct on the show.
You as our listeners, we hope that you do too. So please come and join us over@moonshots.io, become a subscriber or a member, and be part of the moonshots family every single week and month, as we continue learning all of these amazing lessons from Mark Manson and others.
Mike Parsons: Very good stuff. Now, just to recap with talked about values, are the filter, the guiding light.
If you will, on how you want to behave in the world, which helps you figure out what you want to do in the world. We have to be careful that when we talk about values, that we're not falling for the trap of moral [00:41:00] righteousness or virtue signaling, but rather to treat people well, what a great setup from Mark Manson now, all of this has to be done.
Not just once, not just every day. But over a lifetime. And so this calls upon something that we all need, which is resilience and determination. So let's have a listen to this last thought and Mr. Mark Manson, the author of this other lot, and he's going to talk about what you can sustain,
Productivity Game: man, as your success in life is determined by how you answer the question.
What pain can I sustain? He goes on to say that people who enjoy the struggles of a gym are the ones who run triathlons and have chiseled abs and can bench press a small house. People who enjoy long workweeks and the politics of the corporate ladder are the ones who fly to the top of it. People who enjoy the stresses and uncertainties of the starving artist's lifestyle are ultimately the ones who live it and make it.
The subtlety and subtly not giving [00:42:00] about how painful your problems are, is knowing what painful problems you should lean into and what painful problems you should avoid to know which pain you should lean into. You need to know your values, all emotional and psychological pain results from a value being violent.
Seeing your child struggling to read is painful. It's because you value your child's happiness and you value education. If seeing your neighbor drive a Tesla makes you angry because their Tesla is a nicer car than yours. You value material success and are measuring your worth accordingly. You could endure a hundred hour workweeks to get a nicer car, but you have to ask yourself, is it really worth it?
You get to decide which values are worth fighting for in which. Whenever you're struggling with a problem. Ask yourself what is the underlying value that is causing my pain, then determine if that value is worth fighting for, by taking that value for a test drive and imagine making your life all about that value [00:43:00] to the exclusion of others.
If you made your life all about material success, would that be a life you'd be proud of? Only you can answer that question based on your unique set of values. The goal for everyone is to be aware of bad, outdated values that you are needlessly suffering to a pole and replace them with more meaningful values.
Values you are willing to suffer for. Life is full of suffering, but your suffering will be meaningful. If you choose values that are worth suffering.
Mark Pearson Freeland: This feels like a big conclusion or extension to what we've really been discussing and covering in. Today's show is all about Mark Manson and the subtle art it's understanding and knowing your values and allowing them to.
Yeah. Inform how you react to difficulties and challenges in life.
Mike Parsons: I liked how he talked about like the stress and the pain comes from when there's a break in the values or, [00:44:00] yeah. And there's a disconnect. And a great idea is to go back to that list that we just mentioned, and you can get those at the show notes at moonshots.io, you can also get a transcription of the entire show.
But you can look at that list of 20 values and ask yourself, which ones do I want to fight for. And, what's quite interesting is when you are doing things that you choose to do that satisfy you, that are your natural habitat, and you're doing them in a way that is true to you and your values, then it won't feel.
Incredibly painful. There may be some discomfort, but because you're able to relate your purpose and your values to the act, it will actually give you a lot more power in energy because you're fighting for the right thing that you're striving for the right goals, objectives, and you're [00:45:00] doing it in a way that is true to you.
So right now, listeners, if you're listening to this show and saying, ah, I'm feeling. Some real pain and discomfort from the work that I'm doing or a partnership that I'm in or whatever it is, what you will find is that there will be a disconnect either in the values or the purpose. So you might be going in a direction.
That you don't like, that's not true to you. Or in fact you may be going in the right direction, but how you're doing it, the way you're going in that direction is not true to you. And that's really the challenge that Matt Manson puts to us, which is to choose the right purpose and to choose the right values, to get yourself there.
Pretty good stuff. Pretty
Mark Pearson Freeland: good stuff. And as a reflection on some other moonshot is, and individuals we've covered in the past. Mike like the Elon Musks, for example, it's likely that one of his values was around let's say toughness or being self-reliant. [00:46:00] So actually by having a value that's closely tied to resilience or growth, you can actually therefore compartmentalize or avoid stress because actually you realize it.
Aligned with your values. So if you are finding that something's really tricky, then you remind yourself that your, one of your values is about learning where suddenly, maybe it doesn't feel quite so stressful
Mike Parsons: anymore. Exactly. And I think it becomes so much more easy to invest in yourself. Into an endeavor, a project going in a direction, even when you're in the valley of darkness.
And you're like, oh my gosh, this is tough, but I know that I'm doing this. According to my values, I'm not taking shortcuts. I'm doing it the right way. And there's just a certain knowingness, right? I think we, by and large humans know good from bad humans, know the right thing to do. It's not always. [00:47:00] To execute in the right way, but I think we do know it.
And if you have those values and you have clarity on your purpose, I think you can really go far. I couldn't agree more. So mark, here we are. We have got to the end of March Mason and the satellite. It is the first in a series of mind set superstars mindset, ideas to help us be the best version of ourselves.
You're fresh back from your global to a mark. It's a great way for us to refresh your mind. So I'm interested to know what's really left an imprint on you as we've gone through the work of ma.
Mark Pearson Freeland: I think the, as I think about the great series we've got coming up on mindset, we've got a fantastic work from Robert Green, from Chris Voss, as well as Daniel pink.
Who's an individual that we've covered in the master series, but we haven't delved into on the weekly shows yet. I [00:48:00] think it's really. About understanding and identifying your core values straightaway. That's the foundation, that's the ground level that as I look towards mindset and personal development, without that it's very tricky or maybe shaky to then build on a house of behavior on top of that.
So really starting with understanding your values and how you do stuff. Yeah that for me is the big takeaway from Mark Manson. What about you? What really stood out from the subtle.
Mike Parsons: The reason why values are so important, it's this is how you filter the world and how you can just basically reduce all of that noise around you and just focus on the signal.
I really liked that. And Arthur was really fun to kick around values and osteo. Which ones mattered to me most? How do I do them? I think that was really refreshing and I rarely if ever have those sorts of discussions. So this is a huge learning for me. Yeah really fun.
Mark, here we are. We're at the end of the first [00:49:00] show in our super charged 2022 mindset series. So I want to say thank you to you for fighting the jet lag, coming into the studio, recording with me. And I want to say thank you to you, our listeners, our moonshot, as those of you who want to be the best version of yourself who want to join the conversation and learn about.
Together. And boy, did we do some learning today on show 167 with author mark Manson and his book, the subtle art, it started with this very fundamental idea of values being the things that help you to compartmentalize, to filter the world. And that sets. The agenda for you to figure out what you want, what's your purpose.
And then we made sure that we were aware of that trap of moral righteousness. Rather, we turned towards ourselves and how we treat others and we made a promise to treat others well. And if we do that, we could go on the lifelong journey of learning of [00:50:00] growing and knowing that we can fight the good fight, because it's our purpose and our values.
So there you have it, everyone, that's it for the. That's a wrap.