Stephen R Covey: Part Two: The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People

episode 122

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Hello and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode 122. I’m your co-host Mike Parsons and as always I'm joined by the most effective men from the South. That's right. Mr. Mark Pearson Freeland. Good morning. Hey, good morning, Mike. I don't know whether I could claim all of the effective and efficient nurse here today because we're actually doing episode one to two and we're doing part two of a particularly effective manner.

We are hiring Dean and by that, uh, the show last week was an absolute classic. It was so good that we broke this up into two shows, but where do we go today? Mark? Well last week as our listeners might remember, it was episode one to one and we were digging into Stephen. Covey's the seven habits of highly effective people.

But as you rightly point out, [00:01:00] Mike, there's a lot of content and a lot of great tips and habits that Stephen Covey calls out in his book, the seven habits of highly effective people. So like you say, we split them up. So last week we were digging into, uh, habits, one, two, and three of the seven habits. And this week in episode one to two, we are digging into habits, four, five, six, and seven of Stephen Covey's would you say Mark, that we last week we sorted ourselves out on the inside and this episode, we're going to deal with all of that good stuff.

Teamwork, collaboration, connecting with others, getting people excited about your ideas. It's all about the, those social interactions that around that surround our work. Isn't it. Yeah. Last week was really around getting our minds into gear. Wasn't it habits one, two, and three are focused on self-mastery as Stephen calls it.

And it's moving a little bit [00:02:00] away from that personality ethic, as you might remember, and thinking more about character, what's your integrity or your courage and so on. And only by really establishing that foundation. As we learned in episode one to one, can we really now move on into the next habits?

And like you say, these habits all around teamwork, collaboration, communication, and all of those. Ended up in pretty as pretty special habit, number seven as well, which I'm pretty excited to get into later in the year. Yeah. Well, I mean, we've got so much ahead in this show because I think, uh, what's really important is, uh, the way in which, uh, Covey has written the book that he gives you, these really nice foundational flows of ideas that build upon each other.

So what you can expect in today's show is we're really going to be thinking about how to understand the people you're working with, how to find ideas that work for them and you, and if [00:03:00] you get really good at this, if you do achieve that level of mastery, not only will you make it good for you and them, but there's almost this formula of one plus one equals three.

So how you can make this partnership, this collaboration, not just good for each other, but the sort of sum result of it is going to be good. A special sense of magic, I guess. Cause you get one plus one equal three, which is very, very apt for this day and age, because if you think about most of us, we're all working in the knowledge economy, meaning that it is about our ideas and ideas are very social beasts.

And we're going to learn the skills of presenting building, collaborating on ideas, working together. And I think this is very exciting for anybody who has to solve problems, think of ideas they will know as Patrick Lensioni said that it is a team sport. You can't sit isolated in a little [00:04:00] box and solve all these things.

It's a team sport. And I think coming up on this show, we've got the right tools to win at this team sport. Or I couldn't have said it better myself, Mike, and actually in fact, Steven would agree with you. There are no shortcuts. So only by hitting each of these habits together, focusing on yourself, can you go out and be most effective with your team?

So we've obviously covered the first three habits last week in the previous show. So I thought we should really begin ourselves and warm ourselves up for the next four habits. By listening to Stephen Covey actually reintroducing us back into his program. Re-introducing us to the seven habits of highly effective people.

So this first clip, our intro clip is going to be from Steven himself, telling us about investing in the essential purpose of the seven habits of highly effective people is to learn how to lead your life in a truly effective way to describe what [00:05:00] the seven habits material is. Let me share with you what it is not.

It is not a quick fix program. It is not a program of the month. It is a process of personal and interpersonal growth and development that will require not only your continuing best efforts, but also your patients. As we all know, real growth and development cannot take place overnight. You must pay the price over an extended period of time to reap the benefits of these things.

Implementing it. The seven habits will be an upward personal climb, like a journey up a steep mountain. It won't be easy. It will be a challenge as you ascend the mountain. So to speak with the seven habits material, you'll become acutely aware of the loose gravel, you know, the loose rocks in your life.

You may slip occasionally, maybe even fall back a time or two, you will feel the gravity pole of old habits working against you, but [00:06:00] all assure you as you continue in your climb and endure in your efforts. You will begin to feel a level of exhilaration and of attaining entirely new Heights in your life, higher and higher levels of effectiveness.

By applying this effort, you can expect to increase your capacity to achieve your personal and professional goals and to develop better working relationships with your associates and all of your loved ones. In short, you can expect to become more effective. Let me suggest that the best way to get the most out of the seven habits is to be very open-minded to be open to self-discovery participate, really get involved, look for ways to apply and to implement these habits in your life.

You see our habits form our character. You may have heard the quote, so a thought reap an action. So inaction Ripa habit. [00:07:00] So I have it reap a character. So a character reap a destiny. For our purposes, we will define a habit as the intersection of knowledge, skill and desire. You see knowledge is the theoretical component.

That is the what to do, and the why to do it skill is the practical side of how to do it. And desire is the motivation side. The want to do it in order to make something, to have it in our lives. We literally must have all three components. Habits are powerful factors in our lives. They constantly express our character.

They determine the level of our effectiveness or ineffectiveness in the words of an English poet. We first make our habits. Then our habits make us the seven habits are simply common sense, common sense organized, but remember, what [00:08:00] is common sense is not always common practice. So I encourage you to make the investment put forth the time and effort focused on the kinds of changes you can make consistently.

And over time to develop these habits. Mark, I think we just played the most moonshots clip in their history of 122 shows that that has just blown me off my chair. I was writing down all the things I liked and I just stopped because that was just so good. Mark. I think we can do the whole show on that clip.

Now we can just, we can just break down each of Steven's points there. I mean, how good is Stephen Covey? Seriously, I'm not joking when I say, I think that's the most moonshot clip we've ever had because in that, or was. Not only the practices, but this story of embracing hardship [00:09:00] and sticking to it. It's not going to come easy.

It's not going to come quickly, but it will come over time. And ah, this idea that habits make the man. Oh my gosh. That is so good. And it is so true. Isn't it, Mike? Yeah, it's so true, because again, you're in charge of your reactions. As we learned last week, you're not to respond, but be pro active. You know, you've got to own these decisions.

You've got to own most importantly, in that clip, the practice of doing these habits, you know, cause they don't come easy. Like you were saying just before we played the intro clip, you know, these things do take that little bit of time. They aren't there. Aren't easy. And exactly as Stephen calls out in, in that we are the masters of our destiny, I think, as he puts it.

And if you can break down these seven habits, if you can take ownership of the way that you react to obstacles, uh, as, as Ron holiday would've [00:10:00] said, or Joe Rogan or the David Goggins, you know, in fact anybody in our, in our catalog, if you can start to own that, that's really what they're all saying. Isn't it own your reaction and go out and make that difference.

They, they really are. And, um, it has, it speaks to so many different, uh, authors, experts, entrepreneurs, creators, uh, that we have, um, studied together. I mean, to me, this has a really strong flavor of Ryan holiday and stoic thinking. Doesn't it it's really got that, that, that sort of, you got to work hard, right?

Yeah, you've got to accept that it's going to be a mountain climb. And when the gravel gets that little bit loose, don't worry because of the, the journey end will be so much more valid when you get there. Cause you would have persevered. You would have found that personal growth that you would achieve those personal goals, whether they're professional or [00:11:00] relationship and, and you would have become.

Um, a better version by, by going through all of those hardships. I mean, it's spot on exactly what you and I like learning from, from these, these superstars. Right. That's why it's like a, it really is like a manifesto to, to what we do here on the show. And I could see that if James clear, the author of atomic habits was listening, um, his book came some 40 years after that of Stephen Covey's, but he would be in violent agreement.

That habits are not just for today and tomorrow as Covey started in that clip, they are a lifestyle. And that was something we really called out from James clear. Wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It was you, you have to own the. The, the challenge I suppose, or doing daily increments, right. You're talking habits build from atomic level very small, but over time they become actually easier and easier don't they?

Because it becomes your, your [00:12:00] new habit is trying to create that new habit. Yeah. And it's, it's a lifestyle it's permanent. If this is not just a quick fix. And, um, that gets me really fired up to, to jump now into the first step, into mastering teamwork and working with others. And the first of the habits that we're going to dig into in this second part of our study of the habits of highly effective people by Stephen Covey is all about the idea of win, win, and.

I want to encourage you Mark, and all of our listeners to really sit back and enjoy this thinking that we're going to get from Stephen Covey, because this I think is really foundational. If you really want to collaborate well, then you must, as Stephen Covey would say, find the win win. When Lowe's poisons the mind you, you don't trust anything.

See habit four. Think [00:13:00] win-win lies at the very heart of all relationships. Think win-win is the habit of mutual benefit. It's the habit of the golden rule. It's the habit of abundance. The underlying paradigm or principle is abundance. There is plenty out there and to spare, so you don't have to be threatened by the strengths of other people.

You can nurture your competency around you higher than your own. It doesn't threaten you. You can share knowledge. You love to share knowledge. You can share recognition, gain profit, but if people derive their sense of worth from being compared from the external, from the social value system out there, how well they stack up, they're always in a state of anxiety.

They're always studying the pecking order. They're concerned [00:14:00] about how they're dressed, how they look posturing, and they are threatened by competency around them. They feel that if they share knowledge, they lose unique advantage. It gives other the same awareness. They have, they lose some power. If they share power, they have less.

It's like a piece of pie. There's only so much. If you get the recognition, I may not get it. If I share gain or profit with you, I, we will have less. It's the paradigm of scarcity, not the paradigm of abundance. Most people have never had profound experiences with win-win people. They don't really believe there's such a thing as win-win it's either you win or you lose.

You're either tough for yourself, just strong or you're weak. See, they think in dichotomies either are those people will inevitably produce politicized cultures where politics run things, [00:15:00] reading tealeaves, social inventions, natural laws will not govern, or they will become martyrs. They go for lose win, particularly among the so-called important people.

And then they'll often take out their energy on the ones that they can control so that their lose win above win, lose below what happens at the side, all the pins on the moods, the ego, what happens in the marriage. Is it equal? Is it unequal? What happens with the kids? What about your employees? Can you begin to see that the roots of the win-win mindset comes deep out of the private victory?

If the private victory is real and sincere, you're at peace. Um, this is a pretty big clip might because where [00:16:00] my mind immediately goes is I think you're almost brought up to protect yourself. And I think part of what Steven's calling out in think win-win is the acceptance that you shouldn't hoard knowledge, you shouldn't hoard experience in your own.

Uh, immediate inner circle, but instead use the experience that you've got from past, uh, moments as well as knowledge that perhaps you've learned and share that with others, this idea of abundance, share the abundance, the food for thought with others in order to make that team as effective and as powerful as possible.

Because when you're only one person with all those skills, you're not going to be able to scale or grow or really achieve a huge successful moment. Are you? Gosh, there's so much in there. It's a big one. Oh my gosh. We need a third show Mark. Um, um, so, [00:17:00] so here building on what you just said, I think. If we've done the work where we really know the subject matter, whether it might be a particular problem that we're trying to solve, whether it's a sort of an area of craft and expertise, I think it starts with having put in the work that, you know, your stuff.

I think you create the conditions by which you are happy to give away your counsel, your knowledge and ideas first. And I think that is essential to creating the win-win. So when we do meet people, don't sit there, maybe entertaining a lose, win kind of paradigm. Give them your advice. Um, uh, for example, um, I spoke.

Uh, with a potential new client, uh, just this week. And I gave them [00:18:00] advice and criteria by which they should consider the best partner for them in building this big brand new product, full of all sorts of good tech stuff. And I stressed on how they can have a successful process of finding the right partner because it's big, it's complex.

You know, obviously that creates a lot of anxiety about who's going to be the right partner for them. And I was focusing on his, if I was in your shoes, your here are a couple of things you really need to make sure you manage in this process and that you have the right conversations in the right prioritization.

And. I think you can learn from those kinds of moments where you give that counsel to help them, which may be seen a little counterintuitive because you're kind of like, you might be tempted to say, pick me, pick me. We're great. We're great know, but I think if we [00:19:00] enter every, and this is a real personal mantra of mine, uh, enter every conversation with the goal of trying to give a gift in the conversation.

Regardless of who it is. So, I mean, I'm not doing it with my wife every single time we talk, but I mean, like when you come to these meaningful interactions into them, let's say you're talking to a potential employee. Let's say you're talking to a potential partner or client or an important internal conversation.

Think about how you might give a gift. And by that, I mean, you give an idea or, um, just create a new way of thinking about the problem and everyone goes, huh, actually, maybe that'll work like that for me, that's, that's a gift. And that is, win-win thinking the abundance, thinking the growth mindset. I think it's all about don't, uh, hold back because that's like one of the lose, [00:20:00] uh, sort of paradigms that Kobe was talking about.

If we can all go into conversations, looking to give. Before we get, um, and just give good advice. I mean, look, if you've studied something Mark, and you're a real expert at it, what's the use of bottling it all up and hoarding that expertise. Exactly. Right. Don't you think it's so much better, like give it freely, uh, out in the world, right?

Give it freely. And, and like you say, give it as a gift. If you can, um, and reach your existing customer relationships by proposing something that maybe they haven't considered. And actually, I believe that what you just gave us a demonstration there of talking to a potential partner and giving them the tools to make the right decision for them is a great demonstration of.

Our relationship. It's a great demonstration of look, I respect you. I want you to make the right decision for [00:21:00] you guys. Maybe we're not the right fit. That's okay. But I want us to be equal as, as we come into that decision. And I think that's really bang on what Stephen Covey's calling out in win-win isn't it because they're mutually beneficial.

Yes. So let's, uh, continue on this one because I think without the win-win, I don't think the other, uh, habits that we've got coming up really work, um, that, well, if we haven't nailed this, shall we explore Mark the sort of the win-win framework that Covey gives in the book. And let's talk about this idea, these ideas of courage and consideration.

Do you want to, you want to kick off how we might think about win-win. Yes, it's accurate, as you say in, um, think when, when you've got to, uh, it's all about establishing these effective relationships, isn't it is between yourself, maybe a team, maybe a partner, maybe a colleague or a, or a customer and so on, but ultimately the best thing that you want to create are those win-win [00:22:00] moments.

Isn't it? You want to create a win-win situation because otherwise one person is always going to be less, uh, uh, successful or maybe more negatively impacted and in solving for that win-win moment, you've got to consider those two factors that you've just mentioned. It's courage as well as consideration and the way that the quantum, uh, the, uh, quadrant, sorry, chart might look is if you've got high courage, And low courage, high consideration, and low consideration.

They compare when you've got a moment of high courage. I E I'm willing to share. I'm willing to go out there and expose myself along with that high consideration of the other party. So I respect the other individual and I want to achieve that mutually beneficial moment that Mike is a win-win because both people, when I'm feeling comfortable with the situation, as well as my, um, the, the party and the other on the other side of the table.

All [00:23:00] right. Let's, let's unpack those a little bit. Let's go even deeper. I think we're like at level three, four, five, or six here. I'm not sure, but we're going deep Mark. So I think the way to think of a win-win construct is where you have the courage to think big. And respect what you're really trying to do.

Your purpose, your team, your company, that's the carriage bit, right? The consideration is inverting that and being considered of the same dynamic, but for the other person. Okay. So you want to deeply understand, respect and find the win for the person that you're talking with and to have the courage, to look for the win for yourself.

So when you bring a win-win deal together, here's how it's going to look. It's going to be tough to get there because there's [00:24:00] a sort of a leap of faith because you're thinking big and. The atmosphere, the way you get that done is really empathetic. Um, there's a real sense of an earnest sense of trying to create the win-win situation.

Now, what I would propose to you Mark, is that we know when we don't have, win-win like, if, if, if it's tough to get to win-win because you have to have that, that leap and you've gotta be super empathetic and not fall for the ego. I mean, could you imagine Ryan holiday listening to Covey then thinking about we all get bad results.

When we let our egos take over, we try and win the deal rather than get the win-win deal. We get the win lose. We beat them. We got them right. Um, very Ryan holiday about ego is the enemy. Don't you think? Yeah, it's bang on bang on the ego is something that would impact that win, lose situation. You've just said, you know?

Yeah. It's all about me. I've [00:25:00] got that success. Yeah, I've got that sale, but what have I created? It's a relationship with no trust. That's all right. So if, if you look at the quadrant and the win-win. Is is a tough one, but it's done, which is very collaborative, um, really empathetic. What, what did the, uh, what do, what does it look like when the deal is not a win-win Mark?

How would you characterize those? If you look at the quadrant, I mean, for me, there's always going to be a party that loses whether it's myself or, uh, the partner that I'm, that I'm joining up with. I mean, just to, uh, you know, compare what we were just saying about the, the big ego, but losing, uh, more, uh, consideration of the other party and ending up in a win, lose situation where you're very tough, but you're not very nice.

Relationship has not been, uh, created in the best way. Exactly. The, the, the adverse of that or the mirror effect of that is something that [00:26:00] probably some of our listeners have experienced before, where they've been. Really happy with the consideration of the other party. You've given the customer everything that they want.

You've really respected them. You listened to them. You've put in time, you've invested money. You've put in everything to get to a point of perhaps collaboration, but you haven't respected yourself. You've given away too much. And what's ended up happening is that Seesaw has now gone over to a lose win situation because you have been in a slightly weaker position and you haven't respected yourself.

So what you've ended up with is an unfair balance, isn't it? Yeah, it really is. So I think the mutuality of a win-win deal, the empathy that is required, uh, for win-win deal is the way to go. And I, and I think the rule is, and I know, you know, I'm guilty of it. Everyone's guilty of falling into the ego trap and trying to get the [00:27:00] points on the board for you.

I think the, the rule here is get the points on the board for it. Them as well. So it's interesting. Now this really kind of builds a perfect bridge into the next clip. And this is all about, okay. Imagine that we've just thought about this win-win construct and we're like, yep. Got it. That's habit. Number four.

Well, this is exactly where habit five picks up because it's all about seeking to first understand and then be understood. And this is, I mean, this is really good, uh, thinking because you might refer to things such as, um, servant leadership, you might have heard of topics like active listening and all of that kind of good stuff.

Um, so let's go to the master himself and let's find out what it truly means to seek first, to understand then to be understood. You study every [00:28:00] field of human endeavor. You study every. Problem solving process in every profession without an exception. And you'll always find to understand proceeds action, to understand proceeds judgment lawyers go through a discovery process.

Often even prepare the case for the opposing counsel doctors diagnose before they prescribe teachers pre-assess before they teach, what does the amateur sales person do? Sells products? What does the professional salesperson do? Sell solutions? It's habit five seek first to understand then to be understood.

The tendency and almost [00:29:00] all people initially is to want to be understood, or if they do seek to understand, they seek with the intent to reply with the intent, to in some way, influence to some way, bring the person about, to accomplish their own and not with the intent to understand. Now what's your first name?

No. How white is how, where those glasses see better. Okay. But what did the optometrists do before he prescribed? He diagnosed the optometrist. Try to understand the optometrist was first influenced before attempting to influence. I love that little story or that little [00:30:00] interaction with Steven, because it's, for me, at least a perfect way of understanding habit five, seek first to understand then to be understood rather than, you know, listening to a customer, come into the optician and say, Hey, I need glasses.

And then the opticians say, yeah, great. Well, here you go. I've just made a sale or I've accomplished my ambition. My goal I've given a customer, a pair of glasses instead he sits back and says, okay, well, no, let's actually understand your problem. In fact, Mike, your earlier example of talking to a partner earlier this week and listening to the requirements that they had and helping them diagnose the decision of choosing a partner, I think again is exactly what this habit's all about.

You're trying to first understand where the customer is. And then to see if you can help them. Yeah. And this helps you in so many ways, because when you're seeking to understand sometimes [00:31:00] what might be revealed, if you just like, I had to do this, I have to remind myself of this because I'm a bit of a chatterbox, but in the, my earlier career, I really had to, uh, fix the desire to want to be first and the smartest in the room all the time.

So I had to correct myself and by basically just shut the hell up and listen. And the interesting thing about that is like listening and, uh, asking clarification questions, um, before jumping into, okay, well, here's how we fixed that or here's what we should do or here's what we can do for you. Just take the time to listen, to understand, because a couple of things happen.

One, you may realize, Oh, You know, this person is talking about that, this problem, but actually there's a much bigger problem here. Um, or you might be talking to someone who you might be doing a new project [00:32:00] with, or potentially doing a project with and you might go actually, I don't think we're a very good fit.

And so what happens is you avoid chasing, uh, projects, deals, um, initiatives, where there's actually not a good fit. If you're just always broadcasting and not understanding, then you're gonna spend all this energy. And then somewhere down the line, you're going to realize that, oops, this didn't really work.

So for me, the real power here is much like the win-win. If you know your stuff, take the time just to listen to them. The other person, whether it's a colleague, appear a client upon a just listen. I love this idea of. Yeah. I always challenged myself that, uh, particularly, um, when I'm dealing with a third party, let's say it's a client and they come, they've go, we've got this problem.

Could you help us? Don't rush to the solution. Always ask. I always set myself this rule [00:33:00] of asking three clarification questions before I propose a suggestion. And there's just a way I prevent myself going on broadcast. I mean, how do you do it, Mike, if you want to understand before running out and saying, Hey, uh, here's my solution.

Here's my idea. How do you do it? Your, your, your story actually reminded me of that, of the way that Toyota do it. Right. And they ask that, is it the seven whys five whys? The five lines. Yes. Yeah, that's perfect. Isn't it? That's a great one, man. Just go. Okay. I want, let's say, uh, you said to me, I wanted to do a triathlon and I would say why, and you know, like, cause it sounds fun.

Why is that fun? Uh, and then before you know, it, what Toyota believes is that if you ask why five times you get to the source of all ideas or problems you get to the foundation, the first principle I, I would, I would agree, you know, again, because of these three, these habits that we're talking about right [00:34:00] now in Stephen Covey's book are all about teamwork on, they they're understanding one another and you can't do that unless you are able to effectively interact in the right way.

And this is a pure demonstration, isn't it? It's demonstrating to the other party. Hey, I can. Um, I can, uh, understand where you're coming from and that's okay. But you know, if you do this at the beginning, the funny thing is that, um, everything just goes much better because in any, uh, collaborative teamwork moment, if you seek first to understand the people around the table with you, then you'll be able to bring things together.

Solve problems, sees opportunities are better, far quicker because you're aligned. And I think this is a big thing we talk about in the modern sort of ways of working here in 2021 is like getting people [00:35:00] on board and aligning. The best thing you can do is like, Hey Mark, we're here to talk about this big project.

What are your first thoughts on it? Um, and just like, shut up, listen, maybe clarify a little bit, but don't get ahead of yourself and say, wow, here's what we should do, blah, blah, blah. You know, no Wilson in my experience, what happens when you take that former route and say, right, this is what we're going to do.

I'm just going to tell you what works for us. And you should follow us. It shows that you're not listening or understanding that person. And fundamentally kind of makes the other party feel like they're being manipulated. It doesn't it. And suddenly any idea of a long-term trusting relationship is kind of getting weaker and weaker because the other party might be questioning, okay, well, where's this person coming from?

What's their motive. Why do I no longer trust them? And that's really dangerous. Isn't it? Do you know what? I think that whenever we want to work with [00:36:00] others and get people on board, the more time you take at the beginning, To understand where they're at, what they're trying to do. I believe the better things go in the longterm.

So we'll, you might be tempted to think, uh, you know, like having all these discussions and conversations, getting context and asking why five times all that good stuff don't for a moment, think it's a bad investment because it compounds and later down the track you're so aligned. Things can move really, really quickly.

And when things are unravel on a project, on a partnership, on a, on a deal, you will often find that the root cause is misunderstanding. Isn't it? My, I would totally agree. You know, when you don't, it's the same with, with, uh, uh, teamwork. It's a couple, it's a relationship it's it's [00:37:00] parents and their children.

When the, when two parties don't understand each other, what happens, there's friction there's, as he'd say, you know, loggerheads you're, you're bashing together because you're not communicating correctly. And, and that's exactly what you've just said. You can't have a good relationship unless the foundations are right.

Really strong, right. At the very beginning. And you can also do this, not only like when it's sort of a, uh, an informal discussion or meeting, but you can also do this in presentations. One thing, uh, that I really, uh, suggest here and you've seen me do this is I always will start a, like a public presentation or speech or a talk by saying, Hey, I'm going to talk about this topic.

And what I'm hoping to do is to give you at least one idea, one practical thing that you could use in your work. Right after we finish, like, I always start with rooting the, the conversation or the presentation in [00:38:00] what I hope to do for you. I want to give you something I've thought about what you guys are doing.

And I think I've got a ton of ideas that I'm going to share with you. I hope, you know, I really tried to design it. So at least one of these or hit the target. And I think that's a very nice way of being empathetic towards your audience and saying, look, I got a smorgasbord of goodies here. I'm hoping one tastes good.

Right. One is, is rememorable. You can walk away useful. You've got that value. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, good stuff. There's this understanding, but you know what, you know, who else we like to understand better? Think is it, is it our listeners, Mike? Oh, Mark. You actually all we, I was going to tease the next habit.

No, no, no. I feel like we're, don't don't synergize yet, but we want to understand that. Listen, there's don't we Mark. We really, really do [00:39:00] listeners. We love hearing from you guys. We love it. When you get in touch with us via, uh, the email. Hello moonshots. Did I? Oh, getting in touch via social media, but. You can really navigate to our let's call it our moonshots, our base, our headquarters, where you can go and find all of our episodes on mantras and lots of other little goodies over at www don't moonshots.io.

You can navigate over. Check out episode one to two, Stephen Covey, part two. We're going to have our show doc, our transcripts for all of our shows, as well as a handful of goodies up there as well. And one final little way in case you do want to get in touch with us, you can navigate to our feedback.

Button and you can leave us your thoughts, your tips, your tricks, that you'd like us to focus on in the future, as well as give us some new recommendations. We've got a good backlog. Mike actually of shows. We're never going to [00:40:00] run out of individuals to cover on the moonshot show because our listeners are so proactive.

Oh my God. Every time I, um, was it, uh, Terry recently who came with two new guys, I had two new authors I hadn't heard of. They look fantastic. So thank you to Terry. Um, but Tina got us onto Christine Liga. We really enjoy it when our listeners send in suggestions and ideas about what we should cover. I mean, we're really grateful for it and we really encourage you to hit moonshots.io and send us all your thoughts, messages and good vibes.

Fantastic. Please do moonshot listeners because we re we do read, we do reply and we do appreciate every time you guys get in touch with us. Well, that sounds like we are ready to do some synergistic goodness. And that takes us to habit. Number six, Mark, which is this idea of synergizing now synergizing it.

I don't know what to make of that as a word, like give me some context, Mark. [00:41:00] I quite like the word of synergy because it combines some of the other habits, you know, we've covered now five of the seven habits from Stephen Covey and the combination of all of those, or as you say, the synergizing of all of those previous habits equates to number six.

And it's a demonstration of this idea of synergy, which essentially allows you to open new possibilities, create maybe new alternatives or new ways of thinking, but ultimately engage an entire group in a productive environment that then, uh, creates that ultimate goal that you're looking for. So this next clip that we've got from Stephen Covey is the idea of synergizing habit.

Six synergize in a sense is the fruit of the spirit of win, win habit for the spirit of seeking first to understand then to be understood. [00:42:00] How about five, then what happens is a very powerful thing. When people begin to interact together genuinely and they're open to each other's influence, they begin to get new insight.

Something happens to them, both. It creates the possibility of third alternatives, not the either or approach, not win, lose, lose, win, not compromise. Compromise is one plus one equals one and a half. Positive synergy is one plus one equals three negative synergy. One plus one equals one half. In other words, so much of the effort and energy is spent in the adversarial realism.

In conflict and defensive and protective communication that literally, it just wastes the energy of the [00:43:00] enterprise of the marriage, of the family, anyone who has experienced sustained conflict and contention. They know that very little productivity can come out. So just remember those definitions.

Synergy is where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Synergy means you can literally produce something that neither of you could have produced before and even adding what each can produce separately. One plus one, equaling two is not synergy, negative synergy, where there is internal contention and add the serialism produces less than even what one person can usually produce on their own.

Because so much of the energy is wasted going in the wrong direction and is counter productive. Now the traditional paradigm is [00:44:00] one of compromise. That's literally where most people think we end up realistically. And it often is the case. If you're in low cross cultures, but compromise isn't necessary.

If people will pay the price with habits four, five, and six, the key habit, six synergize. In fact, you could almost say the fundamental principle of six is to always value differences. It's not something you just accept that there are differences. It's not something that you tolerate. It's not something that is legislated through diversity programs.

It is something that you celebrate. I mean, genuinely the strength lies [00:45:00] in differences, not in similarities. Oh boy. Was Stephen Covey getting on a roll. I think he was pretty damned to charge by the, in there, Mark again. Wow. What our clip, right? What a thought celebrate the differences. Embrace the fact that we're not all the same.

I mean, how boring would life be if we were all the same? I mean, this to me is the, is, is such a, just a great way of living life, but I want to try and pitch you where I think this comes into play. Mark. I think the win-win construct habit four is really good at making sure that you're thinking about the person across the other side of the table.

And whether they're a peer or a colleague, a client you're creating a win for them and a win for you. Okay. I think synergize is a discreet level higher. It's not just a win-win, but that win-win is truly the equation of one. Plus one [00:46:00] equals three, that together we are doing something we could never do on our own.

Somehow that the sum is greater than the parts. And I think these are special friendships, special partnerships, relationships with your colleagues, with your clients and your partners. This synergize idea is the search for not just mediocracy, but to go for great and the way to get there as embracing the fact that people are different.

Get used to it, get, get, get comfortable with being uncomfortable and go after that, that special magic, great stuff. Isn't it. Mark. So good. So good. It's I love this idea of the third alternative. You know, it's such a, a wonderful, you know, visual metaphor in my mind when you're not compromising, you're not settling on something that's a little bit easy, but you're finding that next alternative insight, that third option that might be out there, that one plus one equals three.

Whoa, [00:47:00] what a wonderful idea. I, I gotta, I gotta agree. And it's, it's probably one of the most challenging of the habits, don't you think? Yeah. It's a little bit more, uh, confronting. Isn't it, it's quite hard to sometimes work with people that you kind of don't agree with. You know, the tendency is to find and, and hang out with people that are very similar to you.

Very because it's safe, right. It's safe and it's easy, but actually, particularly I think in work when you can. Value or as Steven calls it, celebrate the differences in people and sidestep any of that kind of negative energy or those obstacles as wrong holiday would say, and you can get through it, um, together.

Yeah. Wow. I mean, can you just imagine the possibilities, that creative solutions that you might be able to come up with? Very, very hard and sometimes a little bit challenging, but the results as Steven would say those incremental moments would be fun. [00:48:00] Yeah. And so I think it's really about, um, getting comfortable with the fact that everyone's going to have a slight, at least a slightly different point of view and, um, Why, why do you think we struggle with that?

Like why? Like, I think it's rare that we see this idea of real synergy as Covey. We put it, we see it a lot. Um, you know, people are often very stuck in the hand-to-hand combat of win-win right. Or win, lose, and beating people and getting their idea across the line. Why do we, why do you think people struggled to have the courage to go for something special where together we're doing something very unique and magical?

What, why, why is this one? Plus one equals three equations. So damn hard. I think it's because people might be afraid to be completely open. Oh yeah. Yep. Yep. True. So if you, if you, unless you can't achieve what [00:49:00] Steven's really calling out, unless you really harness those first three habits, you really have that mastery over yourself.

You've got confidence. You've got awareness. Self-awareness I think once you can get yourself onto that openness level, then that collaboration, um, the synergy, as, as habit, six tells us can really be explored. I don't know. I suspect the, what holds people back from really, you know, exposing themselves to those, um, Moments of synergy.

There's moments of a difference is because they're not willing to do it. They want to be the smartest person in the room. They want to be the individual, whose idea is number one, as opposed to that one, plus one equals three, finding a solution together. That's what I suspect. But what, what do you recommend?

I think, yeah. Um, maybe I think a thread that [00:50:00] really comes to me for effective people who just, who do the work and know their practice. I think if you don't have, if you haven't done the training and the homework, you're more reluctant to be open because you're actually not that confident that you actually know your stuff.

Exactly. You're afraid because you, you kind of know in yourself, ah, I don't really know this. Yeah. But you know, the funny thing is nobody can know everything. So by just saying, Hey, I'm not sure I have all the answers, but I wonder if. How might we, you know, that that's the, the real courage, I mean, in the end you got to just do the work and know your craft, whatever you do, whether you work in finance, whether you're a, a builder, an architect, a cook chef product builder, it doesn't matter.

You got to know your stuff. You've got to put in that work, but at a certain point, you know, you're not going to have all of the answers and having done the work and knowing you've put [00:51:00] your best effort in means that you can build that confidence to synergize and say, look, let's go for something. Let's, let's get a little uncomfortable.

Let's be courageous here. Let's really go for something let's just not settle for. Okay. I think that's, that's really the cool out here. Isn't it? Yeah, it really is. And actually, I think it's kind of a call-out for all seven habits, isn't it? You know, rather than just being okay with yourself and putting up with moments of frustration with others, lacking, uh, moments of, of where you lack confidence, or maybe you're anxious as, as, as Dale Carnegie's books were showing us to overcome.

I think all of these seven habits are Stephen Covey calling to us and saying, Hey, look, it doesn't have to be just, okay, you've got to be highly effective or you can be highly effective if you're willing to be open and, and challenge yourself. And what we found in that first show episode one, two, one was all around self-mastery wasn't it, it was all [00:52:00] around getting yourself onto that solid foundation and the three clips we've just heard all around, you know, teamwork, collaboration as well as communication.

And opening yourself up to the idea that your ideas could be better if you do collaborate. But as we've just been discussing Mike, it can be a little bit of a challenge for ourselves. And this seventh habit, the final habit of Stephen Covey's book, seven habits of highly effective people, I think demonstrates to you and I and our listeners, how we can try each day to achieve this best version, this best practice, this best way of collaborating and, and mastering ourselves.

And there's seventh habit is called sharpen the sword. So the next clip we're going to hear from Stephen Covey is habit. Number seven, sharpen. The saw habit seven is the habit, our renewal. What are you doing? You can see him [00:53:00] sign down this tree. I bet you're tired. I am. Well, how long have you been doing it?

Oh, how do you spend two, three hours. Oh, but you're really painting say, well, why don't you sharpen the saw too busy sign dumbed down. How many here have ever been too busy driving? You didn't take time to get gas.

in physics. It's called the second law of thermodynamics. Everything breaks down. Entropy becomes disordered. The opposite of sharpening. The saw is to leave at door until the blade breaks till the mind becomes doll, the spirit insensitive, the body [00:54:00] flabby, where everything has gone to pot. The concept of sharpening the saw.

Personally, interpersonally managerially organizationally is the concept of continuous improvement. Kaizen, continuous learning forever getting better. Habit seven is the habit that focuses on production capability, habits, seven, if done right, automatically develops the other six habits because it takes a high level of proactivity and a responsibility to consistently sharpen the saw.

I do not know of one activity that has as great a leverage factor in life is habit seven. [00:55:00] What do I mean by leverage? See if you put the fulcrum in the middle. And you put in one unit of effort here, you get out one unit of productivity here. If you move that fulcrum over, you can put in one unit of effort here and get out a hundred units of productivity over there.

Habit seven moves the fulcrum over. You may only spend a few hours in an entire week, a week made up of 168 hours. And those few hours will affect the quality, the productivity, the satisfaction, the quality of relationships, the quality of decision-making of every other hour. But the problem is habit seven lies in quadrant two.

It is not our attempt. That's why most people neglect it. They do it very [00:56:00] unsystematically. They hit and miss on it. Sometimes they get kind of imbalanced on it. They focus only one dimension. See basically there are four dimensions in life, the body, the mind, the spirit and, and relationships, we call that the social emotional side.

Social is our relationship with others. Emotional is our relationship with ourself. Those are basically the four dimensions of organizations as well. It has its economic side to produce the bottom line towards some mission within a certain value system. That is the spiritual side. It must also have its culture sure of high trust.

That's the social side in order to have empowerment in the development and use of people's talents. [00:57:00] That's the mental side. So those are the four dimensions. If you study all of history and the psychology and philosophy, inevitably you'll find the same four dimensions constantly mentioned, but all four need to be attended to in a consistent and regular and balanced way in order to properly sharpen the saw Holy smoke is, I mean, Stephen Covey is just.

Knocking me off my chair, every clip. I mean, this stuff is so good, Mark. I mean, he is Caterpillar into my top five men shot gurus. I'm just saying, yeah, I got to admit, um, that final clip from Stephen Covey. They're rounding off. The seven habits rounding off. The two shows for me demonstrates why he belongs not only in the time of his classics, but Mike has got to be in the top five of the moonshots show because [00:58:00] his, his tips and habits, they just sing to us.

Don't they? I mean, for me, this is healthy mind, healthy body for me. This is like, if you need to be to be good at work, you need to be good at home. This is about feeding, supporting, nourishing, all the different facets of your being. And I mean, you know, the interesting, interesting thing that I reflect upon is as soon as COVID struck, I started running last year.

And, uh, that was my way of having a little bit of freedom. But I felt that with all the challenges that, that brought in every part of my life, the one thing I could do. Was taken shawl and get an enormous amount of exercise. I was just looking here. Um, Cause it made me think, you know, so last year I either ran or walked [00:59:00] 2,234 kilometers.

And to put that in perspective in 2019, I only did 524. The only point I'm trying to make here is when I faced this great challenge, um, You know, I, I didn't get COVID, I didn't get a cold or anything, but there was this a normal mental, social, uh, thing going on around me. The response I knew I had to do was I had to shop in the store, you know, I had to, um, get the body.

Right. You know, lots of exercise. Another one is if you're exercising a lot, you should take some sort of, um, physical relief, like, like take a really good baths, um, have, uh, turn off all your devices. Uh, talk to your friends, be with your friends, catch up with your folks. You know, like you've got to go through that entire list.

You've got to write the journal. You've got to do the meditate. Like all of this system, um, is a [01:00:00] search for harmony between those four quadrants that he mentioned, those four inter dependent things. And I think we always feel a bit off when one of them has been neglected don't we. Yeah, you do. And I quite like the ownership by the way.

Holy smokes. That's a lot of, uh, kilometers. Um, I like, I like how you've brought this back to the ownership. You know, this is very, the physical workout or the physical, um, exercise element is very consistent with what Tom Brady would tell us. It's very consistent with the concept of owning your physical reaction, like VIM Hoff as well.

And it's true. You can see in an unpredictable situation, scenario, world context, you can own how your body is still stimulated. Can't you, you can go out and not only practice the physical work, but remember [01:01:00] the mind. Uh, can be worked out as well with journaling something. We talk about a lot on the show that act of self reflection kind of feels to me, at least like that's.

When I journal, I give myself that mental workout because I'm reflecting on my interpretation of stuff. You know, following last week's show Mike, I was journaling away. And I was thinking about whether I had had a proactive approach, whether I was thinking with the end in mind and whether I was, um, you know, starting with, uh, uh, the first, first things first.

And, and that was really important to me because it was kind of, uh, uh, good to hand it to go alongside the physical exercise and movement piece as well. You know, really considering that, that, that mental or spiritual dispose workout felt very valid to me. And I know that it's pretty valid to you as well, isn't it?

Yeah. And I would say I'm not, um, uh, an expert I'm, [01:02:00] at least I'm aware of these, these, you know, mind, body, soul, heart. Whatever, whatever you want to name them. As for me, I'm very aware of, if I am pushing really hard with work, I I'm, I try to become aware of where the, this potential imbalance and I'm actively kind of reviewing that.

I would say the most practical tip I can give here is to name these specific actions and habits as daily tasks. This honestly, um, is so useful even after doing it for years and years. For example, if you look at my, um, to do list, which is my daily task manager, and, um, while we're live here on the show, I'm going to go into my daily goals.

I have journaling as a daily activity, working out, uh, [01:03:00] listening to a podcast, sleeping well time with my wife time with my son eating well, burning three and a half thousand kilojoules and breathing exercises. Those occur in my to-do list every single day. And that's how I shop in the store is by making them, uh, that present in my workflow.

In my task manager, they are set as recurring daily tasks every single day of the year. That's fantastic. I'm looking at mine as well. Mike, um, I've also got journaling and I've also got exercise. I've got, uh, it's something that I, I. Don't it's well overdue, uh, gratitude check-ins as well. Yes. A very good exercise for journaling.

Very, very, very good. Wow. Mark. Holy smoke. I mean, this was just turned out to be one of the most, um, Epic shows we've ever done when you say yeah, I, I, to be honest, we could [01:04:00] have, we probably could have made it into three shows, uh, just to give our listeners a little bit more of a peek behind the curtain of how you and I try and replicate these habits in our own lives.

We could have, uh, Even tried to, uh, take our listeners on that journey, but I'm pleased at how we've been able to bring them into those two sections one, all about that mindset, that foundational work on yourself. And then today's episode really about that activity on the social, as well as the emotional elements of.

Collaboration and ultimately this huge big call-out that Steven has that connects everything together, which is personal and continuous development. I think that's such a powerful book, the seven habits of highly effective people that it's going. It's going onto my, uh, my shelf, Mike, it's pretty funny how we surprise ourselves that the classics really are classics.

It's a bit ironic, [01:05:00] isn't it? Well, it kind of shows, uh, you know, similar to, um, you know, the seek first then to understand, uh, seek first to understand then to be understood you and I are learning out loud together on the show. We are looking to understand we're exposing ourselves into these, these different way, uh, these ways of working and the way of reacting, reacting to things with our listeners.

So actually I kinda like it. It's kind of, uh, I think I hope our listeners feel it's, it's pretty authentic. Yes, me too. Me too. Well, Mark, here we are. I just want to say thank you for helping me wrestle the Epic, the Titanic seven habits of highly, highly effective people. It was pretty good. Wasn't it? I, I, it's got to be the top five, maybe top three.

Yeah, actually . Well, Mark. Thanks again. And thank you to you. Our listeners, all the moonshot is all around the [01:06:00] world. We are so grateful for your support, for your feedback, for your likes, your writings, your suggestions. We are really, really thankful for them. And today we can all be thankful together for Stephen Covey and his work, the seven habits of highly effective people.

And this Epic two episode journey started with self-mastery, where it was all about being proactive, focusing on that circle of influence. And then he challenged us habit. Number two, begin with the end in mind, think about our legacy. How will we be remembered? And as we go into the world to do those as an effective individual, we need to put first things first, we need to set priorities.

And here in this second episode, we have gone deep into the social mastery thinking win-win making it a win for you and those around you. And in order to do that, we need to understand them. First. So when in doubt, shut up and [01:07:00] listen, because if you do, you might uncover that magic formula one plus one equals three, right?

Synergy that combining of forces to do some magic and magic is powered by our being that's mind, body, soul, and spirit. You need to shop in that store and you will be able to go out into the world and be the very best version of yourselves. So that's it for the moonshots podcast. That's yep.