BILL GATES

episode 11

Broadcast date: November 2017

The Moonshots Podcast decodes the pioneer of Software and the Personal Computer. We explore the mental models of technology titan Bill Gates. We also learn how he used the same approaches to be one of biggest and most effective philanthropists in the world.

INTERVIEWS WITH BILL GATES

Bill Gates and Warren Buffett: Student Q&A 2017

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates Together in 2007 at D5

The One Thing Bill Gates Says Is Crucial for Success

Bill Gates Speech at Harvard (part 5)

BOOKS AND ARTICLES

Deep Work By Cal Newport

Deep Work is the path to mastery

TRANSCRIPT

Hello, and welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's Friday, October 27, 2017. And we are at the old mighty episode 11. I am. Your cohost might pass ins and as usual I'm joined by the man himself, mr. Chad Owen. Hey there, Mike, glad to be here today. Hello, New York, all the way from Chile, Europe, uh, where we're enjoying the, uh, the old terminal weather conditions we are in for quite a treat today. Chad, how can you get bigger or better than the. Software pioneer that we can, uh, decode and understand today.

I don't know. I think that everyone knows who bill Gates is and the company that he founded Microsoft, I would be hard pressed to find any American, at least that has not in school or at home or at work used. The, the products that, that he created and, you know, people today across the world, who've benefited from his foundation. So yeah, we've got quite the Titan of industry here that we're going to be discussing today. So true.

Titan is the perfect word, that word. I mean to think about bill Gates, I would put it as simply as. He is really the driving force behind the computer. Being in every home he has brought to us and pioneered the idea of an operating system. Um, he truly did revolutionize the world in 1995 when they launched windows. 95. And that really brought to us mainstream operating systems that transform technology through software. And in doing this, he created an enormous company. He became the richest man in the world several years in a row, but to double down on just how. How special he is. He has turned around and given most of that wealth to poor impoverished people to improve health and education for them, it's not really surprising that he's won pretty much every single award of recognition, uh, for what he has, has achieved. But I don't think we can, uh, sing his praises. As well as Steve jobs. So what do you think, Chad, should we let, should we let Steve jobs say it best? Yeah.

There's this fantastic interview on stage at the all things D conference in 2007 where Walt Mossberg and I forget the woman I'm Kara Swisher. Yes. For Swisher have the two of them on stage for over an hour. And they opened asking Steve, what, you know, bill had contributed and asked bill. What Steve had contributed in here is actually what Steve jobs summarized Bill's contribution to the industry as well. You know, bill built the first software company in the industry and, uh, I think he built the first software company before anybody really in our industry knew what a software company was except for these guys. And that was huge.

That was really huge. And the business model that they ended up pursuing turned out to be the one that worked really well, you know, for the industry. So, so I think the biggest thing was bill was really focused on software before almost anybody else had a clue that it was really the software. That's what I see. I mean, a lot of other things you could say, but that's the high order bit. And I think building a company is really hard and, and it requires, it requires your greatest persuasive abilities to hire the best people you can and keep them, keep them, keep them at your company and keep them working, you know, doing the best work of their lives, hopefully. And, uh, Bill's been able to stay with it for all these years. Yeah. So you can hear really what Steve's getting at was the hap creations.

Bill Gates was he could see something coming that very few, if any other people could see, which was that software was going to take over. And what's so exciting in this show is we're actually going to unpack the things that he did, how he did them to actually make, not only that big bit, but how he in fact applied exactly the same thinking to his foundation, which is having amazing impact. On reducing disease and improving education. I, I just bursting with curiosity and ideas, uh, from, from bill. Shall we, should we jump into his first clip? Chad, do you feel like we should? Well, before we do one to kind of call out what Steve is calling out about bill and kind of the genius at the time of the business model of Microsoft, because Apple was founded in the seventies when there were dozens of computer hardware manufacturers that were trying to, trying to kickstart the PC.

Age and, uh, you know, many of them, most of them, if not all of them, like don't exist today, you know, except for just the select few, um, like IBM and even they don't make machines anymore or Apple. And they had all sorts of problems of creating and building their own hardware, you know, actually. You know, create, you know, Steve Wozniak creating the circuit boards like soldering the circuit boards, they went into their machines and bill Gates is like, well, what is going to be on these machines? And. If that is software or, you know, creating basic to be able to then write, you know, in, in the basic programming language to then be able to write programs on these computers. And he said, well, it does, I don't have to build any factories. It doesn't cost me any money. So it's nearly infinitely scalable.

And so from day one, Microsoft was profitable because once they had created the software, they could load it onto as many machines as possible and, you know, license it in that way. And that's. That's really what Steve is talking about. When he's talking about, you know, found the business model that worked, he, it's kind of his sly compliment of like, well, we bet we bet on hardware and like, it didn't really work for 20 years, but bill bet on software and it worked from day one. It's so true. There are all these great companies, such as Compaq and HP and Dell that didn't. Didn't get it right. They didn't have an iPhone or an iPod to change their world. And so you're right. Steve is in fact giving a huge nod to bill. Well here, what was interesting to me is that what bill did was very similar to the big bet that both Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk made in their respective areas.

This is where the three of them are exactly the same that they are so deeply. Knowledgeable and understanding of what is happening, meaning that they are able to, for example, in the case of Ilan bet on batteries and electronic vehicles in a way far more determined to far more focused on the inevitability that. Electric cars and autonomous cars. Oh, the future. And that has caught all the other automotive companies. These out. If you look at what Jeff has done, he is disrupting a universe of retail that has been comfortable for over a hundred years. Everything has been okay, Amazon because they make these big bets just like bill Gates. Did they make these beat bets? Because they have the right mental models, but once they know they're onto a thing, They will risk everything to make it happen.

They are so determined and that's exactly what bill Gates did too. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm really excited to get into the clips that we've found to share with the audience today. Why don't you take this first one about, about the way that, uh, bill kind of sees the world? Sure, sure. So, one of the themes that has come back really high frequency, where we've looked at these amazing innovators is this idea of learning. And, and learning, being a constant factor in everything they do, let's start by getting into what bill calls, his curiosity, he's appetite for knowledge, which is so, uh, primary in Houston. So here's bill Gates talking about curiosity. Yeah, I think curiosity, which Warren mentioned is a, an amazing thing where you try and predict what's going to happen.

And then when it doesn't, you sort of think, well, uh, you know, that, uh, drug didn't get invented that stock didn't go up that, uh, approach wasn't popular. What's what is it about my model of the world? That's wrong? You know, who could I talk to? What could I read? And. So what you, what you see there is his appetite to understand and how quick he was to turn an idea that perhaps didn't work. His first thing is who can I talk to and what can I read to improve my mental model? And he really has this. This approach based on I'll have a hypothesis, I'll go test. And importantly, he wants to learn he's in this kind of constant state of improving and tweaking his ideas, applying them and getting this fake. He's so much like rapid prototyping mental models. Right. And this really reminds me to me of how Elon Musk.

Has these models and he goes in and he applies them and looks to get feedback and to learn from them. When you hear his mental model, what does it inspire for you, Chad? Like where does it take you when you think about curiosity and then learning. Well, those are actually the two questions that I ask myself, but except I flip them, I usually ask, what, what can I read? And then, you know, who can I seek out to learn more? That's really just been my approach to anything that I want to learn more about. Or today, you know, it's like go on YouTube or some other kind of educational platform and, and, and do some, some research and learning there. Um, or, or podcasts.

I think he shares that with most of the people that we have covered on this show, except I think, you know, people like he and Elon and Jeff Bezos. And Fred Smith are extremely careful about curating the right people around them so that they do have those kinds of trusted advisors in various deep domains with deep domain expertise. Uh, I think we talked about, or we have some clips a little bit later, just the partners that build it worked with in his life, I think has been really important to him because they've been able to satisfy his curiosity and really help him, him learn. I think this curiosity and gathering the right information sources, as you'd say, what this really does is shows you how strong this approaches, because he's gone and, you know, had enormous impact in the world of software, but he has had enormous impact in the world of health and education through the foundation.

And he readily admits when, when you look at the research we did for this show, there is a lot of times he'll talk about, he has scientists on demand that he emails with questions. You know, you can't do it in isolation. You have to go out and engage with the world's information. You have to. You know, grab, um, that information and process it. I would say just on a personal note, what I find incredibly important is to take those ideas and what, and do what Steve's talking about, what Bill's talking about is to apply it into the world. And it's really, when you apply the ideas, you, you, then you have those big aha moments. Oh, that, that, that really worked. And, um, that really brought the results. So maybe you need to go back and refine it.

Yeah, and this kind of leads right into our next clip. It's bill would say, it's not just enough to surround yourself with the right people and learn it. But if you actually want to do something meaningful and that's satisfying that you actually need to teach it. So there's the learning part, the inputs, and then there's the outputs of the teaching. And so here, here's him just talking about, I think the question that was asked was, you know, what has been, or what is your most satisfying work? Every once in a while, if, if something they really make sense and you can, uh, teach people about it, sharing insight, I think that's also very satisfying. And when I sit down with Melinda to write the annual letter, the idea of, okay, I've had a chance to see things. What could I share that is really succinct? Uh, that might be helpful. Uh, two people that that is fun. It's hard. Uh, you know, it doesn't happen all the time, but between my learning and being able to share where I see, Oh, this is really simpler than I thought it was. Uh, that gives me a great satisfying. Hm.

Yeah. So he's saying he's most satisfied when he's able to share what. What he's learned, which I think is really just a core, the value of his, I mean, it's, it's, it's embodied in the foundation. That's giving away over $4 billion a year to, like you said, health and education. It just seems like. He's only accumulating the knowledge to then be able to share it. Right. And it reminds me that what comes to my mind are two thoughts. The first of which is by having to teach something, I think you are forced to know the subject matter better. And it reminds me, do you have this thing chat where if you have to present. A concept or something. That's some body of work, the act presenting forces you to come to terms with. The the work even more and just like writing about your work, perhaps the, the ideas get even clearer. Do you, do you have that when you have to share and teach? Yeah. We'll have our own messy internal, you know, brain organization systems that kind of work most of the time, uh, for us, but it's when you have to transmit it, where. It forces that organization and structure onto the message. I mean, the framework that I use is, is a storytelling or a story framework. That's in my perspective.

Yes. So yeah, I'm taking all the inputs, I'm organizing it into a story that makes sense. Yes. You know, kind of using this fundamentals of story, it makes it easier to transmit. And in that process, I've now taken. These disparate ideas and, you know, fit them into a nice concise message. Yeah. And I think that the active doing that helps you become clearer in your thinking and your, the strangest things happen. When you give more than you get, people are drawn to people who are generous and kind and sharing. And moreover. The opportunity to give away your thinking will present you with new options that you can't even imagine. So I thought this was. A powerful reminder for us, uh, to think about how to not only learn to process, but also to become teachers, to mentor, to coach and to share our ideas and just give it out to the world and see what the world can do with it. Yeah. Yeah. It's um, It was very interesting to me to hear that this teaching was, was Bill's most satisfying work that he did, you know? Yeah. He also, um, you know, he had, there's a lot of great approaches to the way which he, he works. And I know that, um, we can also learn a lot from him around that. And I think this, did you want to set up this next clip because he's got some great thoughts around how you manage it and control time, particularly when you're a leader.

Yeah. So I just recently read the book deep work by Cal Newport. It's a great book that you could probably read in a day or less. And the gist of it is that it's very important for us knowledge workers, to be able to focus and get deep work done. And he just calls deep work. You know, the work that is kind of mentally taxing and trying, and that you need to have some protected time for, and. Bill has this thing that he calls think week. Where he essentially just asks everyone. He knows, Hey, what's the best book you've read in the last year. And he takes a collection of those books. I think it's like 14 or 15, maybe even 20 books. And he just goes away and reads them. It's it's a very important concept to him. So here, here, he is really just talking about, you know, being able to manage and control your time as a CEO. And then this is in an interview with Warren buffet. And so Warren Buffett is the man that kind of chimes in at the very end of the clip. You control your time and that sitting and thinking, uh, may be much higher priority than a normal CEO who, you know, there's all this demand and you feel like you need to go and see all these people. It's not a proxy of your seriousness that you filled. Every minute and your schedule and people are gonna want to want your time. The only thing you can't buy, I mean, I buy anything I want basically, but I can't buy time. No. Hmm, count by time.

That's so true. Yeah. And it's, it's such a Warren buffet. Isn't Oh, I can buy anything I want, but I can't buy time. Now. I have to say this deep work idea is incredibly powerful. Um, the crazy thing is Chad. I recently read cow's book as well, deep work, and then I wrote about it and shared it with a lot of people and I got. So much feedback like it, it really created, it did a conversation and I'm amazed that you've read it at the same time. And it intersects with the fact that bill is famous for his deep work approach. And I too found this book deeply ironically, deeply inspiring, um, because it is a practice that I believe in and I could only. Encourage our listeners, but they're even 60 hearing one hour every morning to just write out your thoughts, uh, whether it be just a journal or whether you want to sort of move towards writing about what you're passionate about. Um, but doing so before you check your emails doing so before the day starts. So get up nice and early, get up at six, maybe five and bright with a clear mind.

I have found this one of the most rewarding practices of my entire career. How did, what have you been doing with this deep work idea? Uh, Chad, what's it inspired for you? Well, I, I do it for the same reason. I'm I'm a morning person as well. And for example, I got here into my coworking space at six 26 30, and no one is here. There's no one to bother me. Uh, it's nice and quiet. So I mean this particular morning hours preparing for the show, but my practice actually has been starting to write. Again, nice. I've picked up a screenplay. I've picked up a novel, uh, I'm debating whether I want to do national novel writing month in November. Um, yeah, but it's, uh, it's a great time for me to either put my earplugs in and totally tune out the world or I can, you know, put on some music and do something before, you know, anyone bothers me, you know, there's a little bit of a sacrifice and having to go to bed a little bit early and drag myself out of bed, uh, in the morning. But, um, You know the nature of most of our work today, yours and mine, and the listeners and most everyone's work today, uh, is just filled with lots of small urgent tasks that kind of, you know, take us from one thing to another.

And it's hard for us to be able to focus anyone that's interested in this idea of deep work. I would actually encourage you to read an article by Paul Graham called maker's schedule manager's schedule. And the idea is, is it is much more expounded upon in Cal Newport's book, deep work. But yeah, it's the simple idea that if you're a maker of any kind, a programmer, a designer, a writer, that there is a big difference between a maker's schedule and the manager's schedule. And so we'll, uh, we'll be sure to link both to the book. Uh, deep work and the, and the article by, by Paul Graham. But I should just the article, if you want kind of a quicker primer on this idea. Yeah. And I've mentioned in the last show, getting a book summary service such as a instore. I would encourage you guys to do it. Cause that was how I, um, how I got into the book. It was on Insta read and I got like a 15 minute summary and I was like, Oh my gosh, we'll have all of those links and more at moonshots dot. Uh, but what's so fantastic about bill Gates is he is very, uh, very much surrounded by good people and none of them better. Then his wife, Melinda, who's played an amazing role in the foundation. So let's swing over now to listen to bill Gates, talking about the impact of partners. At Microsoft. I had two partners who were amazing. I had Paul Allen in the early days, and then Steve bombers, that company got bigger and we would not have achieved anything, what we did without those partnerships. Cause you know, when things are tough, when you're making big decisions, having somebody who's really in there with you committed, uh, you know, for me, I, I couldn't have done without that for the foundation. Melinda's an amazing partner.

Uh, she thinks about the people issues better than I do. She knows when I get over excited about the science, she can, uh, you know, make sure we're, we're being realistic about it. And it makes it fun. You know, w last week I went to Europe to build the economic farm and she went to Nigeria and then this weekend we just sat and talked about, okay, what did we see? What does that say about the work we should do? Uh, and so. You know, I don't think I'd enjoy it without a partner in particularly someone amazing like her. Did you, did you catch that lifestyle moment? Yeah, I flew to the world economic forum and my wife flew to Nigeria and then we kind of caught up and we talked about what we'd learned does that. We just, yeah, we chatted about our weeks on the weekend.

And can you imagine, well, I am just so glad to see that they're giving away over $4 billion a year. So, you know, we can kind of make fun of that privilege all we want, but they, they truly are the, the leading foundation, I think in terms of both, just the amount of giving and the impact that they're having. Yeah. And I really like this idea of being so quick. He was so quick to recognize where she's superior to him, which shows that this humility that we see as so important in leaders is to not only recognize that it's a team effort. Um, but also to recognize that they don't have all of the weapons. And I think one of my big learnings is. In in, in my career has been that you cannot be Superman. And I think it's a big reminder to us surround yourself in all facets of your life, with great people, people that you can learn from, uh, people that can inspire you to raise your game. I think that's so important. Yeah, well, I think that's embedded in what you and I have done here on the podcast. You know, I think you reached out to me and said, Hey, does this sound interesting to you? I'm thinking about, about starting this, this new thing.

And I was like, Oh, hell yeah. You know, I want to do it. And I think, uh, the support that we've been able to give each other has really made this what it is. And I think, you know, what people can take away is for anything that you're starting, whether that's a new project at work or a new company or a new product, whatever it is. Just be sure to go out and test it with other people. And what you may find is that you'll, you'll find a partner and I think that's right. That's how Steve jobs found Steve Wasniak. That's how bill Gates found Paul Allen and later Steve bond is that by sharing your ideas, you can actually recruit those partners that are going to be the complimentary help that you need to actually scale what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's one of those things that it's on retrospect.

I look at all of the best things that I've done in life, and it's always, as a team is never been a singular endeavor that has shown us brightly as those that have been team efforts. And I think for anyone who's about to embark on a new adventure. An entrepreneurial in venture or really any type. I think we both encourage them to search out a partner, a cofounder, a co-conspirator if you will, you, it offers you so much.

I think, uh, accountability having someone who really knows what's going on and who can make you accountable. I think this is truly important. Someone who you can confess your greatest worries to, to share the load. Oh my gosh. I mean, What else? There's a whole list of benefits to having, having a partner in crime. What for you, Chad really brings the importance of a. I have a partner when we're going on these moonshots, what real value does it create for you having a plan? I think it's, it's two things. It's having someone that has a literal different perspective, you know, a different upbringing, worldview personality, so they can kind of see around the corners and the blind spots. That you yourself may not be aware of and someone that has, you know, complimentary strengths, not necessarily someone that like negates my weaknesses, but just someone that has a different set of strengths so that we can kind of both, you know, really crush it. And in, in those particular areas, Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, look, there's so much more to go with bill Gates before we go any further, Mike, you told me a really great story before the show. We've gotten some, some feedback from a certain 13 year old. I've heard.

Oh, yes. Oh yes. Okay. So, so, uh, we love it when folks email us, contact us on social media and send us feedback, uh, about the show. And, uh, probably some of the most inspiring feedback we got was a note that I received. From, uh, Ryan McGovern, who is a entrepreneur, he's a moon shutter. He's created a security, uh, cloud based technology company that enables businesses to virtually manage all of their security needs. It's quite a cutting edge business, but what's really interesting is not only does he listen to the show.

Um, but he's 13 year old son also listens to the show and young Carter is really inspired about space. So he loved our Elon Musk show and we were debating on air on the show. We were thinking to ourselves, Oh, have we got too many clips? And he's, he's informed us that in fact, We don't need to cut the clips. He'd like a lot more clips. And as a 13 year old, he's deeply inspired about space. He's ready to go on his own moonshot. So thanks for the feedback. We really appreciate it. I promise you not only where we played more clips on the show, I think we've made an editorial decision. Chad, is that correct? More clips per show. Yeah. Yeah.

I think Mike and I are going to broaden our search for the best nuggets of wisdom. So yeah, I think you can expect more clips from us in future shows. Connor. Yeah, more, more clips come in. And what I'll even do is I will dig up are not any of the clips that we did play, but just for you, kind of I'll make a blog post and I'll post all the clips that we liked. Some of which didn't get onto the show. And I'll send them off to your dad and you can both enjoy listening to a complete series of Elan clips, actually, Connor, I think your, your call for more eclipses inspired me for this idea of like an uncut, uh, you know, version where we just send or put on the, on the website, all of the clips that were pulled. Cause sometimes Mike and I have, I don't know. Almost 20 clips, uh, that we pulled, um, or even I'm even envisioning like a little soundboard where you just have all of the clips from all the different, uh, all the different moonshot, hers on the website.

So, uh, thank you so much for your, your feedback, Connor and anyone else that, uh, You know, wants to share something that you liked about the show or some feedback for us and how we could give you the listener, uh, even more information and value. Please go to moonshots.io and, uh, and share your feedback with us. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, um, now we've got a whole new universe of ideas from, from bill Gates and let's get straight in there that this next clip is bill really sharing his point of view, not only on where passionate motivation comes from, but how he thought about risk, particularly with Microsoft. So here's bill Gates talking about risk and passion.

You know, I think it's great to be risk taking, uh, particularly when you're young, trying out different things, fields that, you know, aren't very popular that you might enjoy, but I never gotten to a position where I was taking them. Uh, actually in any meaningful sense, I was taking a big risk. I mean, the risk of you would not do have acted because you felt the train was leaving the station. Yeah. And it was so clear, uh, that. You know, this was going to happen. This was so much fun. I mean, you know, I was a fanatic. I didn't believe in weekends. I didn't believe in vacation. My mom had to negotiate. Whether I'd come once a week for dinner. Can you just imagine, you know, mrs. Gates enforcing them or young bill, now you need to come. You need to come home, have a square meal, eat some food, be with you for her. It's just. So perfect. Isn't it? Yeah, man. I love his thoughts on, on risk and the way he sees it is like, well, actually the riskiest thing to do was, would be, would have been to not act, you know, to, to not start the company, to not leave Harvard after three years and start the company, even though, you know, he had, I don't know, like eight hours of credits left.

That was actually, you know, the risk of not doing it was actually kind of pushed them out the door to found the company. Yeah. And I think that one of the reasons that if you think he had this low perception of risk came from insight and it came from understanding, which, you know, earlier, we mentioned how he gets that through. Um, creating that time and space, uh, to go off into the woods as you'd say, and have these little retreat, but it's also that curiosity model and that testing and learning and applying those models. That's, that's why he could see it with such certainty and even Steve jobs couldn't see it because he chose a different model.

So I think there's a lot to learn there. I, I take for myself here, like if I'm gonna go for a new company, a new product and new service. You, you really want to have a conviction? That is so compelling that there is a problem in, you know, a path or at least a possible solution to that, that it gives you this huge wave of commitment and, and certainty in, in, in it. And I think that that's like a mental check that you should have. It's it's not only curiosity. Is it Chad? I think what bill has is. A very special recipe that he shares with us, uh, in this coming clip.

So do you want to set up kind of this mental model that he has, um, that really unlocks these options? Yeah, the, the reason bill went to Harvard, uh, initially was for mathematics. I think he says, you know, that he got there with 80 other students and realize that, you know, 79 of them would be frauds because only one could be the best mathematician there. And so he kind of changed his studies to be applied math, which actually was like a sneaky way for him to get enrolled in any classes that he wants, because he could say, Oh, I'm applying mathematics to economics so I can take this class or whatnot, but this is unique. To bill, as opposed to all the other people we've profiled. I think because he comes from that analytical mathematical background, that deeply informs the way he goes about not only doing his work, but measuring the impact of his work. So here he is talking about crunching the numbers.

I think the, the quality that, uh, is helped me in lots of things, uh, is a kind of measurement scientific framework where I go in and say, did anybody handle this well? W what are the very best practices? Uh, do we have numbers on that? And let's get everybody measuring what they're doing. And so they can strive to. Match what that the best achievement is, uh, for us often, that's something like getting the vaccines, how tall the children, some very poor countries, uh, do that extremely well because they get down to that local level and measure the activity.

They make sure the inventory's there. They make sure the workers are showing up. So for me, I always, uh, look at how can we do better, better measurement, and use that to drive the very best practices. Yeah. In, in this Quip, chat it to me is all about that. That motto. You get what you, you measure, boy, I don't know. I probably don't do enough measuring by the, by the numbers. Do you feel Chad is a storyteller? I mean, how would you use this idea in your practice? Yeah, it's a. It's not natural. Uh, I think to me, w one thing that's been helpful is. To not get overwhelmed by the number. Like, I don't know if I could tell you what my KPI is, you know, like, uh, into use some, uh, some jargon here, but I see it in the lens. So he's bill is thinking, okay, are the vaccines reaching the kids who need it for me? I think it's more of like a habit tracking activity. That's been most effective to me. So it's like, okay.

Did I do this thing today and, you know, did that and do it yesterday and the day before and the day before, you know, to build the habit. So th the things, um, it's like, you know, did I read, did I do some like deep reading, you know, in a book on, uh, on a subject, did I do some writing, uh, for myself, for my creative pursuits. And did I exercise those sorts of things kind of tracking has actually been really helpful and useful.

To me. So that's kind of how I have implemented this idea of, of measuring. Um, I, you know, I don't, I don't necessarily measure the output. It's just, did I do it? That's that's been quite effective for me in the past, past few months. Yeah, I think you're right. I think what's really challenging in terms of this sort of thinking. Is we often, how would I describe this? The power of numbers is to make things more black and white to create more clarity.

And I think what's always been a recurring pattern to me. Is, you have an assumption based on what you observe, but it can often be challenged. Once you look at the numbers behind things, one small little tip I can give listeners, and it's not always something that I'm good at doing, but when I do it, Oh my gosh. It's so helpful is I'm really writing down in my agenda. How I spend my time. And sometimes it really Brucely reminds me that I massively underestimate some time requirements for things, or I find myself observing, well, I really didn't write enough that week, or I spend a lot of time helping a client. That's great, or I didn't spend enough time helping a client. And then that's really, for me, the power of measuring.

And I think there's a lot of truth to you. Get what you measure. And if you can't measure something, how are you going to manage it? You know, it becomes a lot more abstract in discussions in the workplace, right? Yeah. Again, I think for me, it's like measuring the binary yes or no. Did this thing happen? And then once you kind of get that down, then you can kind of dig into the numbers. Um, yeah. Yeah, that's true. You know how, cause if you say, well, I'm going to write 5,000 words this week to me, that's not helpful, but it's like, did I sit down today and write it, say like a minimum threshold of 500 words that is actually kind of more helpful and it's like a smaller piece of work in order for me to get it done. Yes. And I think the thing we should remind ourselves and our listeners about is that it's really interesting to ask, are you measuring your work enough? Because this approach that he has taken has not only led to obviously the success of Microsoft, but I think it's important to stress to our listeners. How successful the foundation. Has been in reducing disease and improving education. So in this next clip, what we're going to see is that bill has actually used for the most part, the same approach to building and managing Microsoft as he has done in the foundation. So, so let's get into that and let's listen to bill Gates talking about his approach to both ventures.

I think when you're young, the very hands on stuff where you're writing the code yourself, and you've just got to prove, you know, do I understand this? Can I get this done? I think that's just phenomenal. Uh, so I was very lucky to have that experience. Then as Microsoft got larger, my role was more indirect in terms of picking teams, backing teams, picking general directions. And so my role when I, I left my full time work at Microsoft. Now at the foundation is very similar. Now the domains, I have to understand vaccines and Northern Nigeria dysfunction.

Uh, so the problems, the specifics on the problems are, are different. That's let me. Broaden the kind of science exposure that, that I get, which I've enjoyed, but it's pretty darn similar to Mike. What I was doing in my forties at Microsoft, what I'm doing in the foundation. Now, this second act that bill has had with the foundation is really. Really interesting to me. And he's really just begun it re you know, in the last five or seven years, I think full time, you would, you would have to say that there's probably a whole job for us to do, to understand bill and Ilan Musk's approach, because they've been able to have success in different things. Using the same approach. I'm trying to think of others that have had more than one hit. Does, does any come to mind that have been able to do this twice? I'm sure. If we go back into history, we can find a few, I might have to oppose that question to Gary, the guest we had on the Fred Smith show.

Oh yes. Yes. And he would be fantastic to, to perhaps do a special edition, maybe an Ilan revisit and then dimensionalize it on, in a different way. That could be right. Really excited. Yeah. It's fascinating. I hadn't really drawn that comparison, but yeah. Ilan with space act well, X that became PayPal and then, uh, was sold and then space X and Tesla, and the boring company are all or have done really well. Not quite to the level of Microsoft's success in the FA and the bill and Melinda Gates foundation success. But, um, most of the other people we have profiled have gone all in on the, on their one thing and become massively successful at that. But in terms of kind of serializing it. Yeah, I don't, I can't think of any listeners. Okay. Well, I can ask the listeners too. Uh, if you can think of something, cause I think they would be fascinating people for us to profile on the show. Absolutely. Uh, but um, I have to admit, I am cheating and Googling while we discuss, but Richard Branson, Richard Branson, of course, of course. Yeah. It's been on our list. Uh, maybe we should bump him up a higher onto the list. Yeah. I think you might be onto something there.

Um, yeah, he's definitely Jack Dorsey is another one gotta to give it to him, you know, Twitter and square, you know? Um, would you argue that Marc Andreessen, he did Netscape plus he's venture firm. Yep. But I, I, I think, you know, in terms of realized success, You have to say, bill is number one with the huge success of the foundation and Microsoft even Ilan has yet to realize that that sort of scale. Yeah, I think, I think Bill's pivot or second act has been kind of the most different out of probably all the examples. I mean, I don't think you could get much different than, you know, operating systems and software company to improving the lives of millions, of, of, of impoverished children, um, or, you know, improving education. So I think that's pretty, pretty singular in that way, but if anyone knows of anyone, uh, out there, please send them our way and we will, we'll add them to our list of people that profile. So now we've, we've got Richard and Mark, uh, Jack. On the list, right? I think they were all already on our list, but maybe we'll have to bump them up a little bit. I like it. I like it.

So, I mean, we've got one more clip and, uh, this is the last of the bill Gates, uh, wisdom for us today. And it's a very appropriate one. It's really positioning. He's. He's work more in his life and his legacy and what it means. So let's off for the last time on this show. Let's listen to bill Gates, as he talks about his life's work. Well, the most important work. I got it chance to be involved in. No matter what I do is the personal computer. That's what I grew up in my teens, my twenties, my thirties, I even knew not to get married because I was so until later, because I was so obsessed with it. That's my life's work. And. It's lucky for me that some of the skill skills and resources, but I'd put skills first that I, I was able to develop through those experiences can be applied, uh, to the benefit of, uh, The people who haven't had technology, including Madison working for them.

So it's an incredible blessing to have two things like that. But the thing that all my, if you look inside of my brain, it's filled with software and the magic of software and a belief in software, uh, and you know that that's not going to change. Once the software man, always a software man. I was going to say he's like a walking out official intelligence. The software is working really interesting when, when you sit back, uh, maybe some about this, this do not remember the era in which, uh, there was not a PC on every desk, which was his actual vision. As he stated that he saw it. A computer in every home I chat. I remember getting my first Intel four, eight, six enhanced processor computer. And it was like life changing event. I, yeah, I had so many computers. My family's first was actually a portable Macintosh. I can't remember exactly the model, but it was like the gray box, you know, with the gray and white, uh, Dewey interface.

I really enjoyed. I enjoyed him summarizing himself as a software, man. I mean, I think that is a great embodiment of the way he sees the world. He, he sees technologies as kind of vessels for his software or his software thinking. So he is seeing the foundation and all the resources of the foundation as like. A means for him to put his kind of software level thinking, operating system level thinking, and kind of activate that in hardware, if you know, um, and I think if you look at everything that he's done, that's really true. Whereas someone like Steve jobs was building the platform, bill was kind of putting the thing on it to run it now. I mean, Apple's, since. Change, you know, they have the whole Apple store and the app store and everything. So they, they, they got wise to software. Um, but bill was a software guy from the very beginning.

Yeah, he really was. And it was like the software. He got value out of the hardware. What's really exciting when we think about the future, there's a lot of emerging evidence to think that the next chapter, after the personal computer, after the software, Is going to be the data and what we do with the data. So we could almost do a series of shows, just touching on that.

But I, but I really personally take from this personal computer year was the transformation it made in my life. It was nothing short of breathtaking and particularly because the BC era was the precursor to the internet and certainly discovering the internet way back in 1996. Has changed my life for ever. And, um, I, I really feel that the work that bill Gates did to open up the universe of personal computing and the productivity that came from that. And then when the internet came, the connection that we all enjoy from that, and obviously the smartphone has taken so many of the best features of not only the hard way, but the software that he inspired. It truly is. I mean, in reflection, I mean, it's going to be up there with Alzheimer greatest inventors and innovators. Don't you think? Yeah.

He's in the Pantheon for sure. Like he's, he's already there, you know, whereas a few of the people that we've talked about or are kind of like climbing Mount Olympus, if you will, uh, certainly already established himself as himself, pretty firmly there. I'm of the generation where I always had a computer and I was probably, you know, one of the, I'm probably one of the oldest, uh, millennials, if you will. Um, you know, who, who, who always had a computer in the home, which was only enabled, you know, by vintage visionaries, like Steve and, and bill. And it's some, it's something that I take for granted every day. I think we all do with the power we have in our pockets today. So for me, this was actually really nice to go back and reflect and understand that, you know, this started back in the seventies and it was a hard fought battle. On the parts of people like bill Gates to make that vision happen, to put the computer on every desk, in every home, you know, in every classroom.

Yes, it truly, truly was my, my real takeaway. Other than the impact that he had with the personal computer and with Microsoft is how, um, his approach that he did to do that was ready to be applied to a completely different field and in, uh, you know, improving the health and education of impoverished people. What's so inspiring about that is that everything we are doing at work can not only have positive impact at work, but you can take those lessons, those learnings, those approaches, and apply them in. Other areas. And so this is why being a student of, of, of bill Gates and understanding him is so important. Cause he's had the ultimate validation.

He's not just a one hit one day. He did it twice to enormous scale to numerous effect. And he, well to look at his work and find out what was working best, you know, that going back to kind of the numbers and how he. Really looks to understand what's working. Right? And then he takes that learning. He's not applying everything yeah. That he learned at Microsoft to the foundation. He's only taking the best. Of what he learned there and applying that approach to the foundation. So that is actually, I think what made it successful and so translatable into an entirely different, uh, work. Yeah. So I, I think, you know, as we, as we consolidate our thinking about him, uh, it's obviously his curiosity and he's always, always learning approach. Really set him up for great success in the fact that he was able to take a very black and white, almost quantitative approach to the world and apply it into a nonprofit foundation for the benefit of others. I mean, he gives $4 billion a year to the foundation and he has had enormous impact. Reducing, I believe it's over 6 million people. Less per year die from polio, largely due to the Gates foundation's efforts. And he said that he expects to get it down sub 1 million a year in his lifetime. So enormous impact. And, um, you know, he's a little, he's a little geeky and sometimes.

Hard to hard to warm to, but actually when you, when you look at the body of work, I think it, it more than earns our respect of mr. Bill Gates, doesn't it? Yeah. And I'm, I'm curious about going and finding some other sources. I would love to learn more about him, especially kind of in his Microsoft days when he was. When he was active and running a Microsoft. So I'm going to like all of our subjects, I'm going to continue to build my, my book list and list of articles that I need to read, uh, to learn even more. That's that's really true. So before we sign off, I feel like I need to check with you. I feel like we already have the, the, the topic for the next few shows this serial entrepreneurs and how they do it. It feels like. We've been gifted, uh, through bill. Is this where you're heading? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't see why we shouldn't do maybe sir. Richard Branson next. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. And we have to credit young Connor for his advice. We're going to go for more clips. We'll also, uh, post some bonus ones on the blog. So I head off to moonshots.io.

So, uh, Connor, if you're listening, when you're on the bus on the way to high school, um, make sure you check out the website as well. Uh, we'll have lots of extra clips, so that's, that's a wrap for our show on bill Gates. Deeply satisfying to me. How about you Chad? Oh, I, you know, as a, as bill said, you know, it, it, it's great to have a partners in crime and what you're doing and, uh, you know, I've loved, I loved doing all of these shows with you, Mike. So I just want to give you a little, a little shout out there, say thanks for, uh, thanks for helping get, you know, moonshots off ground and make it what it is today.

You know, 11 episodes. That's, uh, that's, that's pretty great. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you. And thank you to you too. And all the work that you do in producing and fixing all of the, all of that great audio content, packaging it together and refining it and publishing it for us. That's just fantastic. I'm and electrified at the thought of doing Branson, because he's done so many things, you know, from music to airlines and everything in between. Can't wait to get into that. So I'm fired up and ready to go. And I want to encourage all of our listeners to tell us who they'd like us to cover. Uh, give us feedback on the show. We appreciate it. We get feedback from all four corners of the globe. It's very inspiring and it means a lot to us. So thank you. Thank you to everyone. That's gave me giving feedback. Well with that, Mike, I think, uh, I think we're signing off. Thanks for, thanks for all the great clips you pulled on bill and I look forward to, to learning more about Richard Branson.

I have already got a few books that I'm going to probably start reading this afternoon. Nice. Nice. Well, enjoy the days that aren't faults there in, in New York, apart from reading about brands. And do you have any other plans? I mean, it's not even nine o'clock in New York, so you've got a whole day ahead of you. What's what's the plan? Oh, uh, Fridays is usually kind of my, uh, uh, I call it my artist's time. Uh, so I might go see a movie. I might do a little bit more writing. No, I'm not so sure how I'm going to spend the rest of the day, but, uh, hopefully no, no client fires to put out, uh, as I check my email for the first time today. Very good.

Yes. Well, I still have a couple of calls, uh, to make and one piece of writing that I need to ship and if I can get all of that done, I think I'd might enjoy a nice glass of wine. As I unwind, uh, here in sunny Bucharest and get ready for another week of European touring. So looking forward to that Richard Branson show, I really, really appreciate it. This opportunity to chat. So thank you. Thank you to all our listeners from us here at the moonshots podcast, we say goodbye, and we'll see you at the next show. Goodbye, and have a wonderful, wonderful time thinking about how to use. Numbers and curiosity to unlock all the hidden potential in world. That's it thing. The moonshot cast see you next time.