Dawna Markova and Angie McArthur: Collaborative Intelligence
EPISODE 104
In Episode 104: Collaborative Intelligence (buy on Amazon), by Markova and McArthur, is a guide to developing your own personal form of intelligence by utilizing your unique ways of thinking. We'll learn how to identify and build on your strengths as well as those of others while adjusting your communication accordingly.
SHOW OUTLINE
INTRO
We all have potential, let’s learn how not to waste it
Dawna and how not to waste your intellectual capital (3m24
KNOWING OURSELVES
Mind patterns and the 3 states of attention.
Dawna describes Open, sorting and focus (1m19
Understand the cognitive styles, thinking talents and blind spots
Angie and knowing your cognitive style to trigger states of attention (1m56
Different perspectives are good, but how can we broaden diversity and hold it together
Dawna and holding diversity of thinking (1m59)
WORKING BETTER AS A TEAM
The definition of Collaborative Intelligence - collaboration has become the most important skill
Dawna and the Mind-share economy (2m)
Adjust the communication strategies of your team to better collaborate
Dawna and adapting your behavior to be more productive (1m38)
OUTRO
What can we learn from Collaborative Intelligence today to action right now
Dawna and Angie discuss courage (3m05)
TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to the moonshots podcast. It's episode, a 104. I'm your co-host, Mike Parsons. And I'm joined by the collaborative mind himself. Mark Freeland. Good morning, Mark. Good morning, Mike, this is an exciting day. I can feel collaboration. I can feel communication and I can feel intelligence coming down your mic and into my ears.
You should bloody hope so. No bit. Mark. How good this? I mean, we, uh, we are really taking a bit of a twist and a turn on our teamwork series today. Aren't we. Teamwork series so far has been really interesting for me. We started with mr. Patrick Lencioni and he was fantastic. Wasn't he? Mike at breaking down a [00:01:00] lot of things that I guess we took for granted in the way that we function as teams and particularly nowadays where our teams are spread all over the world.
It's sometimes a little bit hard to. Almost take a pause and think, okay, well, what actually is the definition of a good team and what are these dysfunctions that maybe I'm aware of? But maybe I don't do anything about, because I just assume they're natural. And that was a really good, fun, uh, deep dive. I thought that we did with Patrick into what's that DNA of a good team.
And I'm the back of that. We started thinking, okay, well, what are those personality traits and behavioral. Profiles of a good team player. And that was a fantastic, almost mirror up to ourselves. It wasn't, it might of the year came or are we good team players? How do we celebrate those around us? Do you know some of the teamwork stuff has actually been a bit kind of uncomfortable?
Hasn't it? Yeah, it has. Because again, a lot of us have been in our [00:02:00] careers for many, many years, and I think those behaviors. And communication lines that I guess we all have, we, we haven't really changed and actually fundamentally the way that we've all done dumb business, especially recently has changed, but our, our methods of maybe communicating or being team players with those around us, as well as overseas and so on is probably.
Not performing 10 out of 10. And I think there's a lot that we can learn about that. And I think that's, what's been really, really interesting so far with at least Patrick, the, the, the interesting thing that Abby won back, um, the amazing soccer player and superstar in general, both her and Patrick really challenged us on themes of humility, um, as being really essential.
Um, to contributing to a team and getting the most out of the team. And I'm S I'm going to say, I think we're going to take that [00:03:00] idea of collaboration and teamwork to a whole, another level in this show. Yeah. This show building off the back of Abby Wamback and she was telling us about vulnerability and leading from the bench, which again is something that I just absolutely love today.
Mike, we're getting into a pretty, a pretty fantastic level of thinking from a couple of different authors that, uh, you know, we got excited to dig into haven't we. Yeah, we do. We're almost going to do some thinking about thinking. We're going to do some thinking about thinking with our favorite, uh, new authors, Dawna Markova and Angie McArthur and their book collaborative intelligence (buy on Amazon), or with a subheader thinking with people who think differently.
W, yeah, I think there's, there's so much inside of this. Uh, what I wanna do is, um, because we're taking quite a pivot here in the series, why don't you, why don't you [00:04:00] pitch me? Why you think there's this kind of collaborative intelligence, uh, route? Why, why does this matter? Why is this important? Because we don't speak about it much.
Well, we don't, because again, I believe that we sort of take it for granted and maybe we've even got our blinkers on. So we just say, Oh yeah, we can collaborate. I'm a good collaborator. If the team, if the work doesn't work, it's because of somebody else, you know? And I think what's, what's fascinating about the collaborative intelligence book is actually saying, okay, well we can all learn something.
We can all. And we should dig into our, our personality traits or behaviors or attitudes, and really, uh, listened to makeover and MacArthur who are experts are getting people to collaborate together. By sharing their, their minds, sharing their brains and sharing their thinking power. And [00:05:00] it's, it's, it's the modern way of working, right?
Like that's the case that, that, that they're making to us. It's like, how else is modern business done? It's. It's people coming together with ideas and facts and insights and trying to work out a way forward from there. I mean, that's what every day feels like for me. Yeah. Every day now is, is digital. You know, the meetings that we do face-to-face with our customers and teammates are, uh, much, fewer and far between than ever, ever before.
So this book is there's a real map or a real call to action say, okay, well, let's. Actually unlock the potential of getting this right. And the results will be far greater than we've probably assumed before. That sounds awesome. So, Mark, where do we start on, on an adventure into collaborative intelligence?
Where do we start thinking about thinking? We've got to [00:06:00] start thinking about thinking and collaboratively, uh, consume intelligence by actually hearing from the authors themselves. We want to hear from the authors, tell us how to not waste your intellectual capital. The moment for me, when I became really fascinated by this issue happened about 17 years ago, we were at Sundance resort working with an international global team, and there were CEOs and CFOs and CMOs from all over.
And we calculated that it costs them on average, about $5,000 an hour to think with one another. And I grew up internationally myself. I grew up overseas. And so I really understood diversity from the angle of race culture. Sex. But what I found a parent in that room was thinking diversity and they were not using it instead.
They were using it to argue with one another to argue who was right to talk over one another, there was this long pine table in the center of the room. And I swear that [00:07:00] was the only thing separating one person from another from coming over the table. And I'm sure you've all experienced meetings like that.
And then Donna. Did a remarkable thing. She stood up and she went to the back of the room as if to leave. And she paused in the doorframe and she asked this group, it was about 13 people, I think. Is this the highest and best use of your time? You have an incredible amount of intellectual capital in this room.
Are you using it? And she went to leave and they all turned towards each other. And stunned just in that one question realized no, in fact they weren't. So I became fascinated exploring this question with Donna, how do we collaborate? And how do we really conduct, create the conditions that enable collaboration to take place?
So I loved your answer because a lot of it is recognizing what thinking do we have in the room? And what we have in the book, we [00:08:00] have looked at four different strategies that help us look at the four different types of thinking that we can become awareness. Because when we think of collaboration, when it's not working, usually it's the things, many of these things that we don't have control over.
We don't have control over the other person's attitude. We don't have control over how they think, but the more with which we can understand the thinking diversity or the different gifts and talents that people are bringing into the room, the wider bandwidth we have. And the reason I believe this is so important, it is our right now we're changing jobs almost every three years.
And the challenges that we all face are so complex that unless we really understand how to harness the thinking diversity in the room, we're just not going to be able to solve the issues that we have to have to solve. And so what we consider being able to think with a [00:09:00] wide range of people is really a type of currency.
The more diversity that you can think with. The greater capacity you have. And I've just spent the last five nights with almost a hundred millennials at each of these events that we've been hosting for each night. And they are so hungry to learn this because they realize that they may never meet that business partner that they're working with because they're in Afghanistan or they're in India.
And so to really understand what. Type of thinking you need. And what type of thinking others bring to the table is really a new critical currency, a critical currency, like that is so spot on because Gino as she was talking right then the funniest thing that came to my mind is how little I really. Uh, think about how the people around me in a [00:10:00] meeting, in a work session think and what I could do to accommodate their thinking.
Um, I found that quite challenging. Yeah. Because the way that I guess. I've gone into my, the way that I've always behaved in my career when we've got meetings, collaborative sessions, workshops, rapid prototyping sessions, and so on, I'll set up a room or an area in the way that I want, the way that I think I reckon everyone's going to want water.
Here are the chairs. That's have. Hey, bro, let's have something on screen. Let's do this. Let's do that. Let's set the temperature here. Let's gather all of our pens and so on and so forth, but actually where we're, where we're dragging ourselves here with this concept of collaborative intelligence is actually well, that way might not be right for everyone.
It's good for me. Sure. But that's right. [00:11:00] Somebody else might not want the chairs. They might want no table. They might not want the screen. It might be distracting. But we almost, we, we, we try to cater to the personality of the individual, right? Their general working star, right? Like you tend to like, is this a big ideas person?
Is this a logic person? Or maybe it's this a structured person, but we don't think about what intellectual. Styles, what intelligence approaches different people can have. And I found myself, uh, feeling quite vulnerable because I'm like, Oh my gosh, I don't really think nearly enough about these sorts of things.
It makes me wonder about like, well, okay, what are the models? What are the maps? And how might I create the conditions for the very best ideas to come out of us out of the session? Having said that I think we might have some answers to those questions. What do you think Matt? We do. I think today we're going to dig into that level of thinking in how it [00:12:00] kind of feels like we're building on top of Patrick Lencioni's ideal team player.
He had those three personality traits and today with Dawna, Angie let's really, almost add another layer to that, Mike. So the first or the next clip I should say is actually hearing from, from Dawna. Describe. Where she and Angie have, um, started to explore particular mind, patterns and behaviors within their book, collaborative intelligence.
So this next clip that we're going to hear is doing a describing three States of attention. The strategies that we talk about in collaborative intelligence is mind patterns. And this is understanding the different ways in which your own mind thinks, learns and communicates. There are three different States of attention open.
Sorting and focused, and our minds are quickly shifting into these three different States. What most people don't know is that they're three languages of thought auditory, kinesthetic, and visual, and each of us [00:13:00] are triggered into those different States of attention through these three languages of thought.
So how this translates into work is that person that is up pacing in the back of the meeting room is in fact. Moving to help their minds think more attentively. That person who's highly distracted in a cubicle setting. It's because auditory information for them is triggering them into an open state of attention.
We constantly, without knowing this misread one another and therefore misinterpret behaviors and actions. By understanding your own mind pattern. You can intentionally shift from a focus to a sorting, to an open state of attention. And by understanding the mind patterns of those around you, you can learn to read behaviors and help them take care of how to think well with you.
And with one another shoosh, there was a lot in that. Um, the first thing that got me is, okay, so we've got to map some [00:14:00] of this. Um, this kind of stuff. So the first thing I heard there was this auditory, visual and kinesthetic, uh, types of thinking. Right. So help me understand what what's the, what are these three things doing?
How did, how did these three words? Well, I think if I'm breaking it down into how I would, you know, potentially interact with those three different concepts, you know, auditory is. Audio, it's hearing, it's assuming or sorry, consuming thoughts, ideas and brainstorming sessions. Volume is so for me, that's pretty good, but actually it's very easy to drift off.
Isn't it? It's very easy to, you know, hear something, consume it like a podcast or a speech and actually kind of washes over you. The next bit is more visual. And I'm a little bit more visual in the way that I try and imagine things in my head, like [00:15:00] when you're learning a language, you want to learn it out loud and put it on a board or whatever it is.
So visual, um, is all about seeing things in front of you can asthenic is actually something a little bit more interesting for me. And perhaps it's something that I've been aware of before. Yeah. It's, it's more hands-on it's physical. Um, You know, the examples that the book goes into is musicians, athletes, something about construction, you know, I guess it's kind of like prototyping, it's building something with your hands.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and particularly where, where that clip was going, was it you're standing up, you're moving around, perhaps you're interacting with something for me, I've never, to be honest, really considered it as a third bucket. I've always assumed that audio and visual, but actually this kinesthetic one.
I love. Yeah, I will. I mean, it's this idea of applied learning, learning through doing, or, um, uh, it's, it's really people who [00:16:00] explore concepts, um, through manifesting them. So some people are very cerebral and can just enjoy, um, The consideration others are like, no, no, I need to build something here. Um, and so that's very interesting, but then, well, hang on, before we go into the other, uh, thought, which is around attention here, let's, let's really take the time to break down what they've just said.
So the first thing they're saying that there's three types of learning. You know, there's, um, audio visual and kinesthetic what's interesting is, um, to now sort of build some tools together, like what fits, which type of learning. So, you know, posters and mind maps are great ways for visual learning, right?
So if you're together with people that I think that makes a ton of sense. I think, um, question and answer. Um, I think, um, sounds, uh, [00:17:00] songs, um, Uh, anything, um, that brings something to life through sound. Um, what's interesting is you nailed it. I think reenacting role-play prototyping, um, getting outside is a kinesthetic way of, of learning.
What do you think? Yeah, I, I think the way that I like to collaborate with you, Mike, and any of our customers is using whiteboards. You know, it's, it's, it's maybe getting up, it's putting something up and maybe rubbing it out or drawing different arrows, you know, somehow trying to visualize the journey of the map and you were aligned you're you're I think you're a bit of a mind map yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Where do you sit, Mike? I'm probably blended audio visual with just a sprinkle on the kinesthetic. Um, I am a bit restless as a [00:18:00] thinker. Um, so I probably, um, you know, go around there, but I mean, what's interesting is like there's three different types of learning. I mean, even if you just start a meeting by saying, I wonder who the person or the people that I'm with.
Are they audio visual kinesthetic learners and how should I design the agenda to support their, their learning? But this wasn't all, this is just one click. This is crazy. But they also talked about these three different types of attention. Um, Did you pick up on that one? Yeah, I, I did. And again, um, we could spend, I think the whole, the whole show, just talking about this one clip, could we maybe, because you're right.
There are these three different layers of attention, three different types that collaborative intelligence goes into and that's focus focused. There's sorting. And then there's open. So [00:19:00] focused, sorting open. Okay. Okay. Okay. Slow down here. So what we did before, this was the stars of learning. Now what they're proposing, these are the styles of attention, how you apply your attention.
So it's not how you actually learning, but it's how you engage, I guess. Right? Yeah. To, to, to build on that. It's actually, what type of, if you say, do you remember Lindsay? He would tell us. Okay, well, these are the personality traits of team players. Where collaborative intelligence goes is okay. Well, what's actually your, uh, personality trait of your own behavior.
So to almost go a level deeper into your actual psyche and these three stages of attention for me are, okay, well, what type of attention do you have focused? If we break them down a little bit, let me try and pitch them to you. Mike focused, I think is. You're able to ignore everything around you. And you're able to just give a task at hand, your absolute full attention.
Maybe that task is learning something new, [00:20:00] or maybe it's writing a good pitch or email or whatever it is, but it's really, it's like putting on a telescope and just focusing on that one thing, sorting attention is being able to interchange. Between, I think maybe internal, external structions. Um, maybe you can see it's like the devil's advocate you can see, right.
This is how one person could see it. And this is how another person could see this is how our customers can see it. This is how our clients could see it. And maybe I think that sorting attention is better for people when you've got to make that decision. You're going to be in a decisive place. And that final one open attention is maybe a little bit more around the original thinkers that I think, you know, Adam Grant was, was telling us about, uh, in some of our earliest shows, looking at an old problem or a current problem and rethinking it, remembering all things learning from perhaps, um, maybe it's mistakes or maybe it's behaviors of other [00:21:00] products, customers, colleagues.
And thinking about what you've done in the past as a new approach to something in the future. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So let me, let me pitch you this. It's almost like our attention. Is, um, how we, it's really a different way of saying how we engaged. So we've maybe we're a, or an auditory style of learner.
Like that's the model that we use, but we go through these modalities, uh, focused, sorting, or open. So the way I'm relating to this is sometimes my attention is very open, particularly when I, um, For example, I'm um, I'm actually, I'm doing a talk tomorrow and I've got an outline of the talk classic mic person style here.
Don't don't don't you worry, I've planned ahead. But I've been really thinking about, um, sort of very openly [00:22:00] about, um, the idea. I was very focused. I came up with about five kind of key points that I'd like to, to share with the audience. Um, and what I need to do now is go through some sorting process to kind of clean up the different ideas.
So it's very interesting that the way of being thinking actually moves through each of these three types of attention. I liked that. Isn't that interesting? That is great. Isn't it? Yeah. Now now as you, as, as we sort of process that, I think it's really important to mention that we've got. In one clip, we've got so much, we've talked so much about it.
I want to remind everyone that you can go to a certain place where we have all of the show notes. There's a ton of that. Our entire back catalog, all the show notes and plenty more. And this can all be found on one little place out there on the [00:23:00] internet, kind of Mark. Yeah, based on the collaborative intelligence and recommendations of you, our listeners, um, we gradually growing that catalog, but if you want to go and revisit any of our previous shows or what, 104 shows alive up on a little destination called www dot.
Moonshots.io. As you say, Mike, there's a treasure trove of show notes, transcripts, all 104 shows as well as some valuable mantras that, uh, I like to say I, I check out most days as well as, um, a way for you listeners to get in touch with us, make some recommendations on who you'd like us to learn out loud with.
Um, now we've, we've been getting quite a few suggestions for future shows. Um, you know, coming up weekend to, uh, explore an amazing person called Kyle Maynard. We've got our rising [00:24:00] star series and then perfect for the new year. We will have a. Deep four-part series on Ryan holiday, a great thinker and writer, and there's so much more, but we are getting some great feedback from folks about who they would like us to cover in future shows.
Yeah. We're getting loads of great, great comments and, and one particular, um, Input that one of our listeners has provided us. Mike, actually, that I'd quite like to quickly call out is, um, somebody who's actually an anonymous. So, uh, hopefully will, they'll be listening and they'll remember, I'm leaving a little point of view and somebody said, okay, well, I love hearing these, these classics, these big, big thinkers, um, you know, the big, heavy hitters of Simon Sineck Eric Reis, Jim Collins.
And so, but actually. When you and I dig into some of the slightly, perhaps lesser known authors, um, academics, but who have really good practical [00:25:00] insights that we can learn from for entrepreneur and leadership perspective, that's valuable. People are really liking the series when actually we're going to people who are slightly off the beaten track, so to speak exactly what the, the, the, the discussion that we had as a team about, uh, doing a makeover and Angie McArthur, who've done this great work, but they're certainly off.
The beaten track compared to, you know, the Synnex the Jim Collins of this world. And it is so great to hear from you, our listeners, um, that you really enjoy these because we're always deliberate and like, okay, this one's a bit out there. Um, will people be open to that? Or do they want to, you know, do they prefer it when we stay to, to more of the classic?
So we really appreciate the listener that gave us that feedback. It's really important. Because when we know we're hitting the spot, but now that we've talked so much about these different styles of thinking and being [00:26:00] collaborative in the way we think what's really important is to understand how we trigger these different States of attention.
So once again, let's go to our powerhouses of collaborative intelligence. My research was that different things in different people trigger these different States of attention. So in George bushes mind, I can't resist. I'm sorry. It's the last thing I got to do it. George bushes, mind auditory information.
Remember Donald Trump. It makes his mind like this. George Bush auditory information is like this. So every time Donald Trump comes at him with words and he's supposed to come back with quick little, he can't, this, his brain is in this state. It's like dust, state. So if they new, what you're all going to know, when you finish reading our book, they do much better collaborating with each other, but of course that's not what they want to do.
And when somebody pretends like George [00:27:00] Bush has nothing to do with politics, but George Bush is trying to talk like Donald Trump. What book, I'm sorry. Well, George, it's the same, but it's the same auditory because both of them, that's why George Bush was famous for all the things he said. Um, but so Jeb has been trained in being trained to be auditorily assertive.
It's not natural to him, so it doesn't come across as being natural to him. So these form, these different States of attention and the different triggers of attention, which is visual. Auditory. That means words and sounds and kinesthetic, which means movement, experience, taste, and smell in different ones of us trigger different States of attention.
It's really not so complex. We create musical instruments. They all play music, but you play each one differently. You don't blow on a violin and expecting to get music out. But the assumption we make about the human brain and I've been [00:28:00] trying to get this message across for 50 years. The assumption that we make is that all brains are violence and process information in the same, all brains are not created equal.
I think, I think what's, what's nice. And obviously we did a deep dive into each of those, um, just before that clip, but what I like. About revisiting it just a little bit. There is that it reminds us that people are different and it reminds us, you know, as you were saying, Mike, you're a bit of a blend for me.
Maybe I'm I'm on one scale or the other. And it's, it's valuable. Maybe, maybe a way as I'm thinking about this, when we get back into a room where we can collaborate with our customers face to face. In a quite a big, um, prototyping way is to actually not only dig into what their personality types are, but this level of attention and behavior and their [00:29:00] triggers through the form of perhaps a survey or a questionnaire, just to understand what their likes.
So then your time with them is more productive, collaborative. And yeah. I mean, it comes back to that, that thought that we had earlier, which is like, Oh my gosh, take a moment. And think about the thinking styles in the room with you at that time. It really reminds me of like, do your homework on how did, how did the people in this room think.
Because what, what sh what Donna was really saying there is, if you don't have the appropriate mix of audio, visual and kinesthetic, then you actually won't grab their attention. You've got to be aware and care, be aware of those different individuals and that their ways, but also care about it because, you know, yeah.
It'll make them feel better in the meeting and they'll collaborate with it. You [00:30:00] will get a better result as well. Yeah. Yeah. And this really leads us to, you know, just being this idea of being able to work with others that are a bit different and, um, In fact, uh, Donna actually takes this thinking to another level shit.
You know, we often talk about having diversity, um, in the room and, you know, we'll do our best. And maybe we think of that as, you know, the color of people's skin or, you know, their social and lifestyle preferences, whatever it is. But you know what, she's going to challenge us now and get us to think about the following concept, which is that diversity.
And you talked about people being the cloud and people are very different and he kept emphasizing every time we had very different. So what, how does it compare? Is it easier to collaborate? So is very different or a little different. Um, both and awarenesses and how they show up for you. So when collaborating well, I mean, it, it, [00:31:00] and it also depends on what you're trying to do.
So the, the end result, so to use your example of when you had a lot of people who were diverse, you described people from marketing, you described people who were very process-oriented in, in that situation because of the diversity. You'll probably end up with a better. Holistic view because you have many different perspectives.
However, if the task is to come up with a plan to execute on something, then you want people who are all very highly procedural, because that will make it more efficient. It's harder to hold the diversity and there's different ways of working diversity. And what makes it difficult is just our inability to recognize.
Um, when someone's thinking is different than ours and we attribute it to personality, or we attribute it to attitude or things that again are out of our control. So, or they may remind us of a mother we didn't like, or a teacher we didn't like. And so when we get stuck with [00:32:00] someone, we tend to. Leave, you know, fight flight or freeze, or those are the three ways.
And so that's where the holding the space for. And, and that's when moving into inquiry for me. It's, it's when I, when I experienced those moments where you know that it's not. Clot. You're not collaborating whatever the opposite is. And we haven't found the word. That means the opposite of collaboration difficult.
Yeah. When, so when you, when diff when, when you start to see differences is difficult, is I start moving into asking a lot of different questions, especially questions that aren't natural to me, because it, they may be natural to the person that I'm trying to achieve connection with. And therefore I can, well, that last bit there, I think is really, really valuable for me because.
You know, not only are they, uh, uh, they both corny out embrace these difficulties, brace, um, you know, diversity, but actually if you have a challenge or something doesn't quite work for you [00:33:00] instead of, um, you know, perhaps turning away from it or ignoring it or thinking that that's not important, it could be that somebody else around the table or the metaphorical table, um, Does believe in that they do have a good point of view or a build on top of that.
I liked that as a reminder, Mike, that, you know, it's very easy to focus on the subjectivity in, in anything in our lives, but actually having this reminder to say to the colleagues and customers around you. Hey, what do you think? Uh, I struggle with X. What do you think of X and gradually. Um, getting those diverse point of views can, can original idea.
What, what, what did, what did that clip mean to you, Mike? Oh, I loved it because it's, uh, it's actually connected to this theme that we saw a lot with like the Goggins and Joe Rogan, which was embracing discomfort, but that was obviously much more from, you know, And [00:34:00] entrepreneurial challenge or even physical workout style discomfort.
But what is fascinating, Mark is literally what we're hearing right there is MacArthur. And my COVID are literally saying embrace the discomfort of the mind. So when you're in a meeting and you're working on something with your colleagues and you hear something that doesn't work for you. Don't reject the message.
Don't reject the person, but know that this is a great opportunity to actually build, because if you can hold on to those tough conversations and if you can work through them, um, this is how you take the, you know, this collective or collaborative intelligence to a higher level. And I liked your point, Matt, because I think the way to do it is say, okay, Knowing that you're like thinking to yourself, WTF, [00:35:00] hold yourself to just be comfortable.
Right. Don't run away from it. Just be comfortable and say, look, can anybody build on this idea from Joe blogs over here? And I think that's the moment where you can get the diversity working for you. What do you think? Yeah. Yeah. Instead of. You know, thinking map rubbish, we've already tried that it doesn't work and setting.
Okay. Well, why do you want to revisit it? Pitch it, pitch me why this could work and maybe you're right, because you know, you've got a different point of view, different background, different career, different experience, different way of thinking to, to me then that's so valuable. It's really quite interesting.
How, how, if you think about, if someone comes up with like, um, what seems to be a very, um, radical thought or. Not based in fact from our perception, how we often reject not only the [00:36:00] idea, but we say, Oh, don't bring so-and-so to meeting. They're crazy. Yeah. It's w we find it very frustrating, right? Yeah. And that's where, that's where you get the group thing, because you just bring the people that will kind of go with the flow and not create this healthy tension, which is something that Lindsay only talks about all the time.
You got to find a way to have tough conversations. To argue, but to respect each other. And I think this is kind of where they're going with this, uh, diversity of thinking. You've got to find a way to get comfortable in the Encore. Yeah. And I, I liked the, um, the, the connection that you've made going back to some of our, our team, um, our sports series, you know, I think the connection to.
The physical element of all of that, that diversity, or, sorry, the discomfort that you have on a physical side you'll right. Embrace it in the, in the cerebral space as [00:37:00] well. Yeah. And just to get, they're really kind of Metta moonshots for a moment here. What I think this is telling us is that mind, body, or soul getting comfortable.
With discomfort seems to be such an important thing, because everybody's basically saying, uh, we are trained to survive, which in some cases is not the best because when someone is arguing with us, when someone is being egotistical with us, or whether we're enduring physical hardship, we stop, we run away and we don't reject it.
W we don't get, um, Through it so much of the time hardship is an excuse to stop. And what's really interesting is what I am seeing both here in this book. Um, collaborative intelligence, what makeover and MacArthur are pitching us is [00:38:00] just like in your body. And just like with your emotions in your mind, you need to get comfortable.
With discomfort, because that is at the heart of diverse thinking is getting, uh, knowing, acknowledging this is a bit tricky. I'm not going to indulge my fight or flight instincts. I'm just going to hold that and I'm just going to work through it. But for me, Mark. What I want to pitch to you is that seems to be the pattern, whether it's athlete, entrepreneur, academic, holding onto this discomfort and working through it and not just running for the Hills because it's too hard.
This is the cold shower in the morning. That's the beam off. It's the Vimeo, it's the diversity. It's waking up those capillaries and your body senses, but on a cerebral, um, behavioral perspective, I think you're right. This is a [00:39:00] real moonshot trait that we're seeing in so many of these innovators and individuals that we've covered over the past 104 shows indeed.
And listen, ma we, his still God. So many goodies, uh, around this collaborative intelligence, um, if there was before we get to those, cause there's a lot, let's, let's just pivot for a moment. And, um, if there was one thing. You could ask our listeners to do, to help us share this show with more people around the world.
Mark, what would you, you asked them to do? I would love our listeners to go into there. Let's say it's Apple podcasts. Feel free to leave us a rating or review a pop along to moonshots that IO and get in touch with us. Give us some feedback. Maybe share the show with your friends and family. Um, just because what we're starting to see is.
We're popping up in loads of [00:40:00] interesting shards from around the world. And that's really down to you, our listeners sharing it, listening to it and learning out loud along with me and Mike, and the only way to really grow that, um, circle of, uh, education and diverse minds is through our listeners. Um, sharing it with one another.
Totally totally. And it's so, so rewarding and satisfying to see us being, you know, really popular in our, in our home countries, Australia and great Britain. Uh, thank you to all our listeners from there, but equally we welcome some amazing communities and parts of the world with us. We've got Ghana, Cambodia.
It was Pakistan. That is the coolest stuff. And it really does make my day. It's so wonderful to be learning out loud together to sharing what we can uncover from great people. And I think, um, [00:41:00] Dawna Markova and an anti MacArthur ad teaching us out a lot, Mark. So we're on the home stretch. Where should we twist and turn next?
Well, we've those previous clips we've heard all about knowing ourselves, thinking about my mind patterns and my States of attention and the value of really figuring it out and knowing, and understanding my styles and talents and this idea of accepting and embracing. Discomfort in diversity. So now Mike let's think about, okay, well, how do we actually put this into action as part of a team?
And the next clip we've got is, um, donor telling us a little bit about why collaboration has become the most important skill for all of us to now know. And then this is our definition of how we define collaborative intelligence. After exploring this issue deeply for the last two and a half years, writing this book, Don and I came up with a definition of collaborative intelligence is the measure of our ability to think [00:42:00] with others on behalf of what matters to them.
Yeah. And to access that intelligence, we must learn to dignify one another's differences in how we think and use them to face complex challenges.
So why this is so important now is because we've all been trained and educated for what we call a market share economy. This is where things have value, where we're all trying to be the smartest person in the room, because that means we're going to get promoted. And what we're shifting to is this mind share economy.
This is where I value is based on ideas. In a market share economy. If I have one thing and I give it to Donna, then she has two things and I've lost that one thing. And that creates a whole mental set around that in a mind share economy. If I have one idea [00:43:00] and Donna has one idea and we collaborate, then we actually both walk away with two new ideas, a financial model that exemplifies this is Airbnb.
Currently, they are outselling every other major hotel chain per night per hotel room yet they do not own one hotel room. So we're starting to see all these new models. That are using a mind share mindset in order to create a whole economy based on it, but it takes a shift. And in fact, we actually need both, but what we don't know how to do is create this mind share mindset, which is based on fully.
Collaborating. So I got to say that was a bit of a jump color, aiming that, um, that Airbnb was the result of collaborative intelligence, but I do get what they're trying to say, man. That was, that [00:44:00] was a big claim. Don't you think? Yeah, I think it's, I guess the visual. Um, again, you know, going back to the States of, of, uh, attention, the way that my visual brain is bringing to life is the idea of connecting individuals and owners.
I E um, thinkers, I suppose, um, together and saying, right, Mike wants to find a place Mark happens to have that place let's connect them. And that value of a shared mind, um, Is is, is really valuable, you know, connecting them together. I think, I think that's where we're trying to go with that clip, which is saying, okay, well, once you've connected as a team, your brains, so to speak, once you're sharing the ideas in a more efficient way, the results are going to be much, much greater.
You're going to have a great apartment in. Sydney while I'm on huddle day. Yeah, I look, [00:45:00] I I'll be serious for just a moment here. The, the, the incredible, uh, thing is that when we get together as. Coworkers as colleagues and we come prepared to be open, curious, and collaborative, amazing things can happen.
And I think what, what, um, they're making the case for is that folks, um, need to remember that if you have that spirit, um, you can totally come together. In a meeting, you can, um, bring your ideas. I bring my ideas and it is all going to come to one plus one equals three. And I really do believe that don't you?
Yeah, I do. I do. Combining all of those together, I feel like we're, we're [00:46:00] going to go and achieve that wildest ambition to go and be successful and be the best version because cause think about it. Uh, it's impossible to have all of the ideas yourself as an individual, because even from the worst case, I'm going to try and pitch you this from the worst case perspective, at least someone finds a few things to improve in your idea.
Like at least. Wow. Um, or maybe if your idea got a few floors in it, they can help you Polish it up. That's the worst that can happen. The best kid that could happen is that they could go. That's really good. But imagine if you did this on top of that and you're like, Oh my gosh, that's such a good idea.
That's exactly what she's pitching us right there. That is the mind share economy where you get together. And one plus one equals three. Exactly exactly. And this next clip, Mike is taking us and even step further, you [00:47:00] know, we've just heard a little bit about this definition and how we've worked better as a team with this month share economy.
But the facts in my mind still remains is okay, well, how do we actually put that into action? Because your ride sharing an idea is a great way of building upon it. But first I think we need to adjust perhaps our strategy towards. Communication and the way that we describe, um, ideas to people. So this next clip that we've got is how we can learn to adapt our behavior in order to be more productive as a team.
Thank you. Especially in meetings, what you start to notice is first more self-awareness with this, for your own thinking. So when you find yourself slightly checking out, or you're going into a wider state, if you're trying to generate ideas and meetings, that's good. You know, because this is where insight happens.
But if you're trying to come up with a very specific marketing plan or you re you, you need this more focused alert state of attention, you may start fidgeting [00:48:00] and it may be actually better for you to get up and wander around the room. Cause that'll help you remain alert and focused for another person actually writing or actually being up on a flip chart really helps them stay focused.
But what happens is we meet around these long tables and we think talking back and forth, taking individual notes instead of one big collective visual, not allowing this. Space in order to move that that's the best way to pay attention. When in fact the more diversity that we can have in any meeting room and often best decisions are made on a walk and talk with someone because you'll actually get them in a different state.
And so it's, it's. There's specific things. You start to notice about someone else. But the most important thing is just to shift the different state of attention or input if it's not working. So if you notice that you keep telling someone that, and they're not doing or responding to you verbally, Send them an email, send [00:49:00] them a tag.
I mean, these are very simple things or ask them to go on a walk because by shifting that one state of attention or that mode of communication, you are going to get a different result. Yeah. That's fascinating is that I think the real lesson she's pointing out here is when it's not working shift. The types of attention.
So if you're in focus, mode, move to sorting, if you're in sorting and it's not really working and you're like, guys, this isn't happening, let's go to open. So that's quite an interesting, uh, when you're at a kind of, when you're stuck, when you're at a luggage jam, move the type of attention. Yeah. For me. You know, the previous clip that we'd heard was the value of the Mindshare economy.
And to your point, sharing an idea only can make it better. You know, we get more input. Perhaps we plug some of the holes that we didn't notice at the time and [00:50:00] here it's okay. Well, once you've accepted. Um, the benefit of sharing an idea. Okay, well now play to your audience, you know, Mike, you and I collaborate very regularly and it comes semi natural to us in the way that we do it.
But you know, for me, I quite like when we go for a walk and maybe we're talking about an idea out and about, because I'm getting that visual stimulation, we're getting maybe that form of exercise when we're stretching our legs, getting the blood pumping and that's great. And I think it's, I think that clip there is, is telling us, okay, well, once you've set to the benefit of doing it, make sure to be aware of.
Who you were asking for that little bit of assistance, a little bit of point of view and try your hardest to, um, I suppose the next level, the next clip, we should really be how you accept it. Once you've got the mind share economy, you know, the benefits of it you've perhaps adapted your, [00:51:00] your behavior, whether it's yourself or those around you, allowing them to behave in that way.
I guess the next hardest bit perhaps is taking. That criticism or taking that, that feedback. Yeah. I think we have to be a bit playful here. Like, um, just play around with your, um, you know, your different types of attention, whether you're focus, sorting or open, um, and look and note to everyone listening.
We will have this all in the show notes, so you can return to it. Um, and kind of think more about this because it really is. It's so damn new. I mean, for such an important thing. I mean, in the end, Mark, the capacity to think is what makes the human race unique. Our cognitive powers mean we can build rocket ships when no other species has.
So isn't it funny how little time we spend on it and [00:52:00] where this is an interesting parallel. Once again for the moonshots, is that when you think about. You know, collaborative intelligence and thinking together, it is just the next door neighbor to what we talk about a lot, which is mindset working on your mindset, being strong in the mind.
And isn't it fascinating how these in the search of excellence in the pursuit of moonshots, how, what is revealed to us that your mindset and how you think about how you think. Are such crucial things to not only doing amazing things, but to becoming the best person we can possibly be to becoming the best version of ourselves.
Exactly. Because maybe your behavior, your way that you collaborate your moonshot thinking, and your mindset is as unique as your fingerprints, you know, everybody's different. [00:53:00] Backgrounds and educations and experiences. And gradually as we're exploring more and more of our authors and entrepreneurs and individuals who have set up businesses and played great sports games, we're starting to see these traits.
Aren't we, Mike, how you do work better as a team. And I think there's teamwork series has really demonstrated to us a number of different ways to recognize those skills with those around us, as well as ourselves in order to make. I really good impact when we do come together and collaborate with those around us.
Yeah. And it's interesting, isn't it? That there, once again, there's seems to be some, some really clear, um, Models that we can use this idea that we can think in three ways, our attention comes in three ways. Um, this, I find this very helpful in not only understanding myself, but I think that the call to action that, um, this book, collaborative [00:54:00] intelligence, um, By a donor makeover and Angie McArthur.
I think what they're really saying to us is like, kind of wake up. These are the skills of the 21st century people like, come on. Exactly. It's it's, it's unavoidable now. And in something, again, like we were saying at the beginning of the show, we've all taken it for, I believe I have at least taken a little bit for granted and if we can learn how to valuably think.
Collectively, especially you in a world now where we're all on zoom, we're all on WebEx, whatever it might be. We're all collaborating round around the world. This mind share economy it's more valuable than ever. And we've got one final clip mic, no one final clip from Duke Angie to round out our show on collaborative intelligence.
We've learned about ourselves. We've learned about working as a team and communicating things efficiently to one another. This final clip we've got [00:55:00] is what can you and I might learn from collaborative, collaborative intelligence today to go and action it right now. You know, we all have to start being more courageous because the, when we interview people, talk to people all over the world, the number one complaint people have is the boring, unproductive, useless meetings, whether they're on the phone or alive.
And so even naming, okay, nothing personal against anyone here, but I don't think we're all using our full capacity. What do people need in order to think better? Just even inviting that question into the middle and start taking care of yourself. And it, it does require being brave and saying, you know, it really helps me to think on my feet, we worked with Ted Turner.
He doesn't have a desk in his office. He wanders around in it hierarchical company. We may have thought he was, you know, Hyperactive hyperactive. Um, so we need to, you know, start breaking some rules, be a little braver [00:56:00] because the essence of this is when you are using in your mind, as Donna said, it's like water.
We know what we call it. The flow state, when your mind is going from here to here to here and you're having insights and then you're really productive. You're in the flow state. And the more that we each understand what creates that for ourselves and then mimic those conditions as often as possible, we're going to be the guy that.
Or the gal at the top anyway. Um, but it does require sort of bringing this awareness to, to others. And so. And, uh, you know, as I said, the millennials that I just work with, this is how they want to walk there. You know, every coffee shop is now full of people, interacting, working with one another in different ways.
So they are anxious, they're dying, you know, what did they call it? Death by cubicle. I mean, there are all these different, you know, ways. And so the thing I want to add about that, Is we, I worked one time with the CEO of Chrysler and his senior leadership team. And we were talking [00:57:00] about this information and during the break, and only during the break, this woman came up to me and said, you know what you said about kinesthetic.
And some people need to move your shit. That's me. I can't pay attention unless I'm moving. Um, I say, great, but how come this whole meeting you've sat in the chair. And she said, well, everybody else did. I couldn't, I just couldn't get out of the chair, even knowing I need to do, I just couldn't get out of the chair.
We have been taught to think about ourselves in terms of you got 12 wrong on the spelling test, not you got eight, right? So we as a culture have very little compassion for our own differences. And when your system, when your system goes, I need to move. I can't move to Boston, the room number they said moving, then you keep pushing it down and pushing it down.
And we call that despair. We call that depression because we are literally [00:58:00] pressing down our needs to be productive, to be engaged, to connect 85% of your brain, 86, 87. Nobody knows exactly is devoted to connecting with other people. Wow. That is such a powerful clip because what. It just reminds us of is we are social animals that are unique because we think, and that's why collaborative intelligence matters so much.
Right? Yeah. It's matters so much because it matters so much because if you're brave enough to say to those around you, your teammates, Hey, this is the best way that I work. Um, I want to also learn about how you want to work. We can therefore. Take a step forward from a productivity perspective, we can work better.
We can work smarter and we have more of that emotional intelligence that Patrick Lencioni was telling us. Well, it wasn't a [00:59:00] crazy as she was describing this woman who can only think when she's moving around and she just sat in the, in the room for two hours and how that's such a constraint of her potential.
Isn't that? I mean, that's pretty striking image, isn't it? Yeah. Pretty striking because it's, um, it, you know, it's probably true with a lot of us. Probably true with a lot of us or maybe we don't know it yet, or maybe we know it, but we don't want to tell people. And it's so hard to do that right now, specifically moving around is harder to do when you've got a laptop for your sort of anchor to.
So as we move into the next year, we move away or we close out the teamwork series. The call to action, I think for us is how can we all be aware of the way that we work? Um, our mind States or flows or States of attention. And begin from this afternoon onwards, embracing that as our, as our productivity targets.
So [01:00:00] what's the, what's the thing, um, that you're going to do after this. Are you going to try and, um, delve more into the attention modes or the different thinking modes? I think I'm going to move into the, uh, the attention modes, actually. I think, I think exploring a little bit more in the. Uh, the visual auditory, kinesthetic approach and questioning.
Okay. Well where to my customers and clients said, and how can I best make use of that time for me, Mike? That's where I'm going to, that's where I'm going to be. What are you, what about you? What are you taking there? Yeah, I do. I would like to spend some time there. I mean, I feel pretty comfortable in the, in the way I think, but the attention pace could be a big unlock.
Couldn't it? Yeah. Yeah, the, the focus, the open, the sorting, these are, are pretty new to me as well. And I think they're going to help us be more productive and be [01:01:00] those best version of ourselves. Yeah. Nice. Well, don't forget everyone. You can, um, pop along to moonshots.io and get to the bottom of open versus sorting versus focus or auditory versus visual versus kinesthetic.
Um, wow, Mark. Thank you. Was that good? Oh, what a, what a great, uh, close to the teamwork series Mike. It was. And what was so good is we mixed it up from Lensioni to Abby now to collaborative intelligence. I mean, we went full spectrum on teamwork. We went, we went pretty deep. We went pretty deep into behaviors and mindsets and I've enjoyed it.
Yeah, me too. Well, Mark, thank you to you and thank you to you, our listeners for joining us on this journey, where we listen out loud, where we went very, very deep into the idea of teamwork and from Lensioni to Abby one back. Two collaborative intelligence by Donna makeover and [01:02:00] Angie McArthur. Boy, did we get some messages?
And today the message was don't waste your intellectual Capitol Capitol because this is the very currency of the 21st century. So let's say goodbye to death by cubicle. Let's trigger our attention. Open up let's sot let's focus and make sure that we understand how we think, whether it's auditory, visual or kinesthetic, we can do it.
We can think better and we can do it a whole lot better. We do it together. And when you're really trying to think together, When you're trying to build collaborative intelligence, just change it up. If you're a little stuck it's okay. Go out, break some rules because in the end you'll need to take a little bit of courage.
Don't hide from different thinkers, different thoughts, embrace it. And if you do that, I promise you. You'll be in that flow state and you'll be in that flow state together with your peers and your colleagues being the very [01:03:00] best version of yourself. That's it. From the moonshots podcast, that's a wrap.