Beginner's Bliss: Starting What Truly Matters with Michael Bungay Stainer

EPISODE 234

Welcome to the Moonshots Podcast, where we delve into the remarkable stories of visionaries and achievers. In this episode, we're joined by Michael Bungay-Stanier to explore the art of commencing endeavors that hold genuine significance. Prepare for a profound conversation that sheds light on the misconceptions surrounding goal-setting.

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Michael Bungay-Stanier's book, "How to Begin: Start Doing Something That Matters," is a powerful guide to help individuals kickstart meaningful endeavors. In this book, Bungay-Stanier debunks common misconceptions about goal-setting, offers practical strategies for tackling challenging tasks, and provides insights on how to stay focused amidst distractions. With a focus on curiosity and continuous growth, the book equips readers with the tools to embark on journeys that genuinely make a difference in their lives and the world. It's a must-read for anyone seeking to turn their aspirations into impactful actions.

Segment 1 - Debunking Goal-Setting Myths:
In this illuminating segment, MBS and celebrated coach Marshall Goldsmith dissect the common mistakes people make when setting their goals. Discover the misconceptions that might be holding you back from achieving your dreams.

Segment 2 - Conquering the Hard Stuff: The "TID" Approach:
Tackling daunting challenges can be intimidating, but fear not! Join us as we break down MBS' transformative "TID" steps: Thrilling, Important, and Daunting. Learn how to conquer the most challenging tasks and make a lasting impact.

Segment 3 - Navigating Distractions on Your Quest:
Distractions can derail even the most focused individuals. In this section, Productivity Game provides expert guidance on avoiding distractions while pursuing noble goals. Explore the concept of considering your prizes and punishments, and regain your focus like never before.

Segment 4 - Committing to Goals: The Three Essential Tests:
As we conclude our conversation, MBS and Marshall Goldsmith evaluate the three crucial tests to apply when committing to your goals. Discover how curiosity about your goals can pave the way for continuous growth and achievement.

CONCLUSION:
Don't miss this enlightening conversation with Michael Bungay-Stanier and Marshall Goldsmith as they unlock the secrets to beginning something that truly matters. Tune in, and let the journey toward your most meaningful goals start. It's time to make your moonshot a reality!

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Transcript

00:01:15:04 - 00:01:49:22
Unknown
Hello and welcome to the Main Shots podcast. It's episode 234. I'm your co-host. Might Parsons And as always, I'm joined by Mr. Matt Pearson Freeland. Good morning Mark. Hey, good morning, Mike. Good morning. Moonshots. Family members as well as all of our members, subscribers, listeners and viewers. Mike, I think it's fair to say that we've got a pretty impressive bookend to one of our perhaps Darkhorse series on the Moonshot show taking place today, don't we?

00:01:49:25 - 00:02:08:24
Unknown
Yes, I think he's a bit of a rising star. I think he's a bit of an alchemist of different ideas. And he's got his own ideas, too. So how good is it that we are going to wrap up a very special series today? I think I quite like that description of Alchemist because I think he probably would suit the title Alchemist quite well.

00:02:09:00 - 00:02:39:21
Unknown
I think today diving back into Michael Boone, Guy Stayner after a three episode series, Mike is perfectly timed. So today, listeners and viewers, we are closing up the loop, shall we say, with Michael Bongi Guy. We've covered the coaching habit. We've covered the advice trap. Today we are digging into his third book and one of perhaps Mike, my favorites of the series, which is how to begin start doing something that matters.

00:02:39:23 - 00:03:11:09
Unknown
Now, I tell you what, maybe I say this every time as well. If there's a proposition or book cover that sounds enticing, how to begin Start doing Something that matters is up there. Mike. I think Michael has his marketing down. Yes, you're absolutely right. Write about a good payoff, a good subheading. But I think this episode, above and beyond anything else, is for those of us, i.e., all of us that face the challenge of getting going or maybe finding our way through the obstacles.

00:03:11:15 - 00:03:34:22
Unknown
Maybe we're a little bit overwhelmed with our goals and ambitions and our dreams and our hopes, and sometimes we procrastinate. Yes, Mark. Heaven forbid we sometimes do put off what we should be doing, so don't defer any longer into tomorrow. Start today with how to begin from Michael Bungay Senior and we will help you overcome all those hurdles.

00:03:34:24 - 00:03:58:02
Unknown
Get started on what you're meant to be doing so you can follow your path, find your purpose, and be the best version of yourself, said Mark. I think we shouldn't let it rip on you or let. Let's launch straight in with Michael Boon Gaston Yet this time he's going to be talking to Marshall Goldsmith and we're going to hear a little bit from Michael about how we all need to start working on hard things.

00:03:58:03 - 00:04:19:17
Unknown
What do people get wrong about setting goals? Yeah, you know, I started writing this book and I didn't think it was going to be about goal setting. I didn't think it was going to be centered on that. I thought it's going to be another crack at trying to figure out what does it take to change, because behavior change, which is the work we do as educators and as facilitators and coaches, as everybody notices, is a tricky thing.

00:04:19:17 - 00:04:38:00
Unknown
And I'm like, I'd love to try and simplify that and make that more practical. And it turned out that I tried to write that book. I sent it. I sent a draft of to a friend and he went, Michael, I read 50 pages of your book. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. I was like, okay, I need to go back and take another crack at this.

00:04:38:02 - 00:05:02:09
Unknown
And when I when I looked at the rubble of that first draft, there was one phrase that really stood out. We unlock our greatness by working on the hard things. So it occurred to me that I was like, I want to help people work on the hard things, things that are thrilling and important and daunting for them so they can set a worthy goal, as I thought that through in my head wasn't quite as fast as that, but it kind of came to me.

00:05:02:11 - 00:05:23:11
Unknown
It occurred to me that the way we often set goals at the moment basically don't work that well. They drive me nuts. I mean, lots of people are familiar with the idea of a smart goal. To be sure there's a place for smart goals, but when you think of all the acronyms as smart, specific, measurable, actionable, timely and so on, it's all about kind of tidying things up.

00:05:23:11 - 00:05:50:08
Unknown
It's all about reducing the goal, kind of clarifying where the edges are. And if you're if you don't have the right goal, you can very easily have a smart goal that is just working on the wrong thing. And then the other thing that people have heard about is bags, big, hairy, audacious goals. And I like those, but mostly when those are talked about it talked about in the context of organizations, you know, they come from Jim Collins's work great.

00:05:50:10 - 00:06:11:25
Unknown
So either it's the goal is way too big and it's too abstract and it's big and it's hairy and it's almost impossible or it's smart, which means it's it's tightly measured, but it might not be the right thing. And I wanted to fill the gap. And that's what a worthy goal does. It's a goal that like you up, it's a goal that contributes to the world and it's a goal that teaches you it's daunting.

00:06:11:25 - 00:06:39:07
Unknown
It pushes you to the edge of your own learning capabilities. Mark There is a ton for us to get inspired here, so what he just presented to us is we can make the mistake of I. It being too big and grand with no how and what or maybe way so defined on the what. We don't know if it's we're doing it for the right reason.

00:06:39:09 - 00:07:14:14
Unknown
Right? So we've made it so specific. But the question is, is it the right direction? All right. When pedaling but pedaling fast. Yes, but are we pedaling fast in the right direction? I don't know. Right? Yeah. So so a bit of a bit of a dilemma there with, you know, doing the work. And particularly, I think what he's talking about is doing things that are hard because if you are doing the right thing, I think what we've learned on the show, Mark, is it actually should be hard, right?

00:07:14:16 - 00:07:35:22
Unknown
That's right. I think as he mentioned in that clip, when you're working on something hard, that's when you're growing. That's when you're getting the most out of it. And I think we've all probably experienced probably not when the fire is taking place. But once you've got through maybe a challenging period, you tend to look back at it and think, Hey, you know what?

00:07:35:22 - 00:08:11:22
Unknown
I think I learned something that I think where Bongani is going with regards to goal setting here is helping us perhaps put a little bit more rigor around that choice rather than making things difficult for us because you know that great saying the best laid plans of Mice and men, Mike will come back. So even though you might set out a great goal, a great foundation that you want to work on, at the end of the day might be, you know, a challenge or it might get a little bit sidelined and things might get in the way of prioritization and so on.

00:08:11:25 - 00:08:31:24
Unknown
But I think where Mike was come here is by setting that right goal, that worthy goal. At the very start, you were almost setting that intention to yourself so that you're more likely to stick to it. We all know and trust comes around. Mike I want to get a six pack and you know, this is what I'm going to plan on doing.

00:08:32:00 - 00:08:57:02
Unknown
And it doesn't that doesn't feel particularly worthy. So I'm probably going to forget about it after a period of time when it gets in the way of me enjoying myself instead, Where I like Michael's taking us here is if it's really valuable to you. And we're going to dig into this a little bit more in the show. If it's thrilling, important and daunting, you're more likely to stick to it because you care much more about it.

00:08:57:04 - 00:09:20:22
Unknown
So the reason that you touched on something that we all face, which is it's all fine having a plan or a goal, but then things start to happen. There's I'm going to come back at you with another very wise and ancient saying from none other than Mike Tyson. And that is we all have a plan until we get punched in the face.

00:09:20:25 - 00:09:44:00
Unknown
Yeah, that's good. Yeah. So, so I mean, if you are into this moment, if our members and our viewers and listeners, if this feels like the moment you're in right now, you should be rereading the work of Michael. Guys, I would also encourage you to read Ikigai, this intersection of passion and purpose in which you can get paid for.

00:09:44:02 - 00:10:09:06
Unknown
There's a whole lot of work in this area. Specific to what NBS has said. I think the pattern we see is super clear. Let's break it down together, Mike. Like it. You know your goal, your worthy goal, it should be daunting. Sometimes we hear people talk about stretch goals, right? There's no use planning a set of goals that, you know, you're very likely to hit every single one of them.

00:10:09:08 - 00:10:40:23
Unknown
Because where's the challenge in that right. That's it. I mean, if you've got a nice simple goal such as, I don't know, sharpen my pencils today, something like that, I'm you're less likely to stick to it, Mike, because it doesn't really get you going. It's a little bit straight and narrow is I got this too easy. But if you said paint, draw five sketches today, you might be like, okay, better get perky and ready and let's, let's get going.

00:10:40:23 - 00:11:03:22
Unknown
And so the out there a daunting shouldn't be impossible, right? It should be like whoa okay that's going to take some. What do you think? Yeah, that's exactly right. I think again what needs causalities is behind, you know, big, hairy, audacious goals. A lot of the time those are very valuable. But also I've seen them in my career when they're just a little bit too much.

00:11:03:22 - 00:11:31:03
Unknown
And when you are set a goal or target a KPI, perhaps either as a team or an individual and you kind of have a sneaking suspicion this is never going to happen, this never again. And I think there's two sides of that coin. You've got individuals who perhaps are aware of it, and then what happens is it motivates them because then they think, oh, there's no way we can go and land on the cross like that.

00:11:31:05 - 00:12:00:19
Unknown
No way. At the same time, though, when there are people who that do believe it'll happen, then there's a sense of disconnect because then you realize why? Why? What are they? How are they drinking the Kool-Aid? Why do they think this is possible? And what happens to the team then? It segregates because you don't have that unity. What I like, and this is calling us out here, is if you create a goal that's daunting, it should be orientated around, you know, a little bit of feasibility.

00:12:00:22 - 00:12:22:10
Unknown
Yes, it should be helping you as we've got behind us. It's going to push you, of course, you know, like David Goggins would say, if you're not, if you're stationary and you're static, you're not growing, so therefore you're essentially dead. But also you should be able to help reach your potential. Yeah. And I think that's that's the kick it for me, that element of feasibility.

00:12:22:13 - 00:12:39:25
Unknown
Yeah, it's relatively it's going to push you to feel a little bit uncomfortable but at the same time it is going to be achievable if you set your mind to it. Yeah. And then you're going to get motivation pushing not kill you I think is the. Yeah. And that's exactly for our viewers that's what you'll see here on this this chart.

00:12:39:25 - 00:13:00:05
Unknown
So check out YouTube if you want to catch the show in full glorious video. Now, the next one he's got on the way to go in this chapter is important, followed by thrilling. Obviously, the important thing is it should be bigger than you should be giving to the world and it should be generous and it should contribute to your legacy.

00:13:00:07 - 00:13:30:18
Unknown
I think that one's pretty straight through. But what are your thoughts on this third requirement that you're worthy goal should be? Really? Mark I find this is perhaps unsurprisingly, maybe the most interesting. I think we covered in the show before this idea of ambition, setting goals, being motivated, and I think a consistent thread that we found throughout the NBC series is also curiosity.

00:13:30:21 - 00:13:55:25
Unknown
I think where Bungie's taking us with the third worthy goal item within this list with thrilling is a combination of those factors. I think thrilling can be something that really gets you going in the morning. Let's say it's a new job or new project. You've got something brand new that you have to go and learn. We've all been in positions and perhaps we always will be in positions where we learn new stuff.

00:13:56:01 - 00:14:26:10
Unknown
And I find Mike when I've got to go and learn something new, there's that sort of mixture of excitement and fear. You don't quite know what's going to happen and that's kind of exciting. I think that's the thrilling aspect that we can start to inject into our setting of goals because again, similar to reaching a potential and and pushing yourself, if you can get something that gives you that sense of immediacy, that sense of excitement, it does help you get motivated.

00:14:26:15 - 00:14:49:08
Unknown
I find that if I've got something new that I want to go out and try and experience in my job, it's possible that I'm going to wake up and feel more motivated that day because I know it's going to be something different. It's going to be a bit of variety and it's going to help me stay sharp. It's going to help me enjoy the work that I do because it is exciting big time.

00:14:49:08 - 00:15:14:18
Unknown
So I look for the thrills, but for the spills, you know, ask the question, what if we and then in achievement, what if we did this? What if we accomplished this dream big, you know, have some energy, dare to be different, be courageous, and that'll be a thrilling goal, an important goal, and one that should be just that little bit daunting.

00:15:14:20 - 00:15:53:00
Unknown
Well, I think actually, you've reminded me, Mike, that there's a good consistency here, I would say, and maybe this is a good partnership between MBAs and Brené Brown. Brené Brown's obviously pushing us to be brave. Enter braving the wilderness into the arena. I would say that if you pair the worthy goal setting from embers with the intention and the intentionality of working with somebody like Brené Brown, Brené Brown's work on staying, you know, hard and getting out there, I think you're going to be aligned to success on you.

00:15:53:02 - 00:16:21:11
Unknown
You really are. And, you know, success isn't all like hyper color, big muscles and go, go, go. It's vulnerability. It's facing self-doubt and fear. And I believe that is the biggest thing that we face when we shoot for the moon is overcoming those feelings because we know that everybody has those thoughts and those feelings. But doing things like this and knowing it's going to be a bit daunting, that's all part of the process.

00:16:21:11 - 00:16:45:18
Unknown
But I tell you what, Mark, tell you what's not daunting, and that's being a member of the Moonshot podcast. It is an honor for me every single week to bring our members to light. So please welcome Barbara, all individuals who maybe no longer need an introduction, but we know are out there braving the wilderness and learning out loud with us every single week.

00:16:45:18 - 00:17:19:11
Unknown
And they include Bob Margolin, Ken DETMER, Marjan, Connor, Rodrigo and Lita, said, Mr. Bond, you're Paul Berg, Kalman, Joe Christian, Samuel, Barbara and Andre, Eric, Chris, Deborah and Lisa, Steve Craig, Daniel of Andrew, Ravi, Yvette, Karen around, all of whom are now our annual members who I think Mike are possibly just desiring this ambition of keeping themselves thrilled, interested and determined to just keep on learning out loud.

00:17:19:14 - 00:17:43:20
Unknown
So well done to all of our annual members. Thank you for being with us. But hot on those heels, as always, are PJ Nika WADA, Ola Ingram, Dirk and Emily, Harry Karthick, Venkata and Marco Jet, Roger, Anna Rau, Nimal and Diana and Christophe, Denice, Laura Smitty and Corey Bertram, Daniella, Mike, Dan and Antonio and our brand new members, Vanessa and Zachary.

00:17:43:23 - 00:18:07:13
Unknown
Thank you guys all so much for joining us as members of the Moonshots podcast. Yes. And if you are a viewer or a listener and you're not yet a member, hop over to Moonshot studio. Click on the big members button, because that brings you none other than officially certified. Luna Powered Good karma. That's right. Moonshot Studio Become a member.

00:18:07:15 - 00:18:29:12
Unknown
It is. Wait for this mark. It's the cost of one cup of coffee a month. That's it. That is perhaps even more thrilling than a good cup of Australian coffee. Mike. I'd say that that's money that's going straight into your education fund. I'll tell you what NBC would say to us. That's thrilling and it's important, but it's not very daunting.

00:18:29:14 - 00:18:51:23
Unknown
I think we should hear from him a little bit more about this formula. Let's go and discover what it really does take for where to go. Perfect, Mike, I totally agree. Let's jump straight in to hearing Productivity Game. Give us a break. Great breakdown of the thrilling, important and daunting aspects of a worthy goal. A life well lived is full of worthy pursuits.

00:18:51:25 - 00:19:30:21
Unknown
Worthy pursuit is something you find thrilling, important, and daunting. Thrilling means are eager to wake up each day and do it. Important means it will benefit more than just yourself, and daunting means it demands more than what you are currently capable of. A daunting pursuit requires dedication and experimentation. Identify your worthy pursuit this year. But considering pursuits in three possible areas projects, patterns and people project pursuits focus on achieving something like creating a podcast that gets a thousand downloads pattern pursuits involve new ways of being and behaving like Wake up at 6 a.m. every weekday to read and journal.

00:19:30:23 - 00:19:54:00
Unknown
People pursuits involve improving your interactions with people. For example, being a better friend, being a more patient and playful parent, or being a more confident team leader. Think of one pursuit in one of those areas that you want to make a priority this year, then turn it into a worthy pursuit by increasing the thrilling, important and daunting scores until your pursuit feels like a calling.

00:19:54:03 - 00:20:17:02
Unknown
Sadly, most people's pursuits score high on just two factors. The pursuit is thrilling and important, but not daunting, which is too comfortable intellectually to regret. Not doing more well. The pursuit is important and daunting, but not thrilling. These pursuits feel like an obligation or their pursuit is thrilling and daunting, but not important. This leads to empty wins because the pursuit doesn't benefit others.

00:20:17:04 - 00:20:43:07
Unknown
Avoid these three pursuit pitfalls by increasing your thrilling, daunting and important scores to at least a six out of seven first increase The thrilling score. Author Michael BUNGIE'S Stanier began a project in 2021. He called Create a New podcast, but didn't find the project very thrilling. After writing and rewriting different versions, he crafted a more thrilling pursuit create a new professional grade podcast.

00:20:43:09 - 00:21:03:19
Unknown
Creating a professional grade podcast seemed like a thrilling intellectual challenge because he had to get really good at something. He's always enjoyed asking people questions and having meaningful conversations. If you need to up your thrilling score, think of how you can make your pursuit a fun, intellectual challenge in a vehicle for becoming great at something you've always wanted to be great at.

00:21:03:21 - 00:21:28:07
Unknown
Next increased the daunting score when Michael Bungay Stanier assessed the daunting score of creating a professional grade podcast, he realized it wasn't challenging enough. So after a few more revisions, he upgraded his pursuit to be create a podcast that is in the top 3% of all podcasts within 12 months. This pursuit even just enough anxiety to stoke his ambition and dramatically increase his focus.

00:21:28:09 - 00:21:49:13
Unknown
Draft different versions of your pursuit by tweaking the scope and timeline until you discover your Goldilocks zone. Something not too hard, but not too easy a goal that you can't achieve on cruise control. Discovering the Goldilocks Zone is like an alien. Discovering Earth. A planet is a perfect distance from the sun to allow life to thrive and grow.

00:21:49:15 - 00:22:20:24
Unknown
Now increase the importance score well. Michael Boggess Daniel strived to create a podcast in the top 3% of all podcasts. He also increased this important score because by being in the top 3% of podcasts, his podcast would reach more than 10,000 people a month and likely have a positive impact on a good portion of those people. Increasing your important score may require you to increase the scale and reach of your pursuit, or simply notice how your pursuit is indirectly improving people's lives.

00:22:21:00 - 00:22:48:14
Unknown
Mark So much good stuff there and a real build on it. Quick I mean, I look at this chart that we have for our viewers. It's like it's such a build on ikigai. I think we've talked a lot about these three vectors, thrilling, important and daunting. So I'm going to suggest that we we've got that covered and that we kind of move to talking about how do we embed these into our doing, how do we make this a habit?

00:22:48:14 - 00:23:25:03
Unknown
And I want to start with the best advice that I have for our listeners in how to make this a reality is to get somebody else involved. I think social accountability and also getting feedback on how you're thinking is of the essence here because if you conduct a largely once in a year academic investigation into what is your worthy goal or a worthy pursuit, I just run the risk there of it.

00:23:25:03 - 00:24:01:00
Unknown
Never really happening on a day to day basis. Whereas if you are looking at this and building a recurring habit list, if you are sharing the goal with someone else who will hold you accountable, who's going to ask you how you're doing? And even if you can make meaningful milestones that you can be held to by others and to kind of refine the worthy pursuit and hit the targets shown in this chart, I believe that the sharing with others is the single best step to take.

00:24:01:00 - 00:24:23:23
Unknown
Otherwise, I feel like it's like the goal. You never told anyone. If you don't hit it, then there's no stakes. Is that? Yeah, I would totally agree. I think that is the essential piece that probably for a lot of us it doesn't come naturally. You know, the builds that I would have really centered around holding yourself accountable with others.

00:24:23:25 - 00:24:46:11
Unknown
You're totally right, Mike. I think that's kind of step. If it's not step one, it's certainly the most important priority to get right. Yeah, I think the other piece that I would add to it, and this is a bit of a blend, I suppose with sharing with others, but also sharing it with yourself is reflecting on just reflecting off journal on this page, right?

00:24:46:13 - 00:25:08:07
Unknown
Yeah, it's in that awareness because at the same time we there might be listeners and viewers out there who are thinking, well, I don't know what is really daunting to me. I don't really know what's important to me. I think the only way or maybe even what's thrilling, yeah, I might enjoy going fast in a car, but I don't know what's thrilling with work because I've never seen it before or never really thought about it.

00:25:08:13 - 00:25:30:23
Unknown
And I think that's totally natural. And that's where I think the key important piece around awareness and reflection comes in. Because unless we hold ourselves accountable and take ownership of deciding for ourselves what thrills us, what is daunting to us, and what feels really important when we're working on stuff, who else is going to be able to tell me?

00:25:30:25 - 00:26:05:22
Unknown
Because in the greatest respect, if I'm talking to my partner, my boss, a colleague, they might have different ambitions, ideas of legacy, things that keep them up at night than I do. So realistically, the only worthy pursuit that I'm going to be able to stick to is one that I create. And I think that really starts with understanding what is it that that does make me feel scared, make me feel excited, because then I can start to latch onto them and build on that and then use it much like NBS encourages us to do as few.

00:26:05:24 - 00:26:32:22
Unknown
Yes, stay motivated and go out and and get stuff done. So. So imagine that you've written it out, you've shared it with friends. You've made yourself very accountable. You're journaling on this. Should we reveal the elite level of realization? Do you think we should? Well, I think, Mike, that's all around for me at least. Checking in, being honest with yourself.

00:26:32:24 - 00:27:14:17
Unknown
Oh, seeing this personally part of it. But, Mark, I want to go beyond that. How do we pound this into us? So it is a self manifesting reality. How do we make a dream come true? And you have to repeat your goal every day, right? Your goal every day. I will. It has to be down into your atomic level being if you don't say to yourself, let's say you wanted to and I don't know, $50,000 a year, then every morning you should say I will earn $50,000 a year.

00:27:14:19 - 00:27:41:00
Unknown
And you say it again and again every morning. You write about it, you reflect on it, you improve it, you don't give any chance for self-doubt, procrastination, uncertainty to creep in. Because if you're not pushing forward, what happens? Mike? You stay still. And what happens when you stay still? Mike That's it. Game over. Yes. And think about this.

00:27:41:03 - 00:28:10:16
Unknown
Someone as resilient and disciplined as David Goggins got lazy. He admitted this and never finished. The whole concept in his second book is You are Never Finished. This is a continuous activity. The refining on what you're here to do and doing it is something you do until the day you die. You are literally learning every single moment until you breathe no longer, because if you pause, you get lazy.

00:28:10:16 - 00:28:43:22
Unknown
Marquette on the couch. Netflix has autoplay mark. It's too easy. That's true, but it's real reality this Mike and I've seen it in myself as well as others around me. When you get a little bit comfortable, that's when I think you you start to realize something's off something. It's maybe I'm a little bit sluggish getting out of bed, maybe I'm a little bit demotivated, and maybe that's down to things being just feeling a little bit too easy.

00:28:43:22 - 00:29:03:22
Unknown
Maybe I'm not pushing myself, not only is the work not necessarily important, but I'm not scared by it. I'm not excited by it. And that's where this daunting and thrilling aspects really come in to play my mind. And that's why I think that's so important. I think the guy framework is is essential to consider, and that's a great way of thinking.

00:29:03:22 - 00:29:24:04
Unknown
Okay, well, how can I create that balance, that effect that I'm having on others as well as those around me? What I really like, though, is, is where NBC takes us, which is kind of a little bit more like you say, would it be more David Goggins and push ourselves to get afraid, really expose those nerves so that we get a little bit tougher?

00:29:24:09 - 00:29:49:05
Unknown
Yes. Like getting in the cold shower with with involves getting used to it so that becomes habit becomes normal and you'll be amazed at how far you can push yourself. And that's why daunting is important and that's why you need to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Because what David Goggins clearly taught us is there's so much left in the tank, we just don't know about it until we push those limits to go out and push those limits.

00:29:49:05 - 00:30:25:07
Unknown
And the greatest thing next to that that Goggins talks about is that even he spends these moments where he's just staring and he's running shoes for like 30 minutes because he's tired and he's looking at it and he doesn't want to do it. So we all face fatigue barriers. We don't always have a great day. We all face self doubt and certainty and these things come along in all sorts of forms.

00:30:25:07 - 00:30:52:08
Unknown
Sometimes they're distractions, but if you're feeling like you want to conquer distractions, I would definitely head to one place in the universe. Mike And it's a little old destination. It's in the galaxy of websites. And I think at this place, Mark, you can find show notes, archives, tips, links, blogs, anything to be the best version of yourself. Do you have the coordinates for said planet in the solar system?

00:30:52:10 - 00:31:15:13
Unknown
Well, I'm just checking my ID scores and these are seven out of seven or maybe even ten out of ten. And that destination, Mike, is moonshots. Don't I know if NBC tells us that anxiety brings focus, I would build on that and say moonshot scenario is a great precursor to that as well. You can find, as you say, show notes, upcoming episodes.

00:31:15:15 - 00:31:41:23
Unknown
Historical Archive shows we've done 234 episodes. There's a plethora of information out there. We have learned out loud for a few years now with all of our fans and members and moonshot listeners. So dive in to Moonshots that I get excited, get curious, and let us know what ticks your boxes. What are you learning out loud nowadays? And you can get in touch with us as well.

00:31:41:23 - 00:32:09:08
Unknown
Mike Connelly That can absolutely head over to Moonshot study. And while you're considering such a proposition, here's another one. We have got more from Mr. Michael Bungay STEINER So, Mark, let's slam in the aisles. Let's hit the home run. What else have we got from Michael Blum, guys? DANA Well, well, one of the key things that we've probably noticed, Mike, as we explore the steps of thrilling, important and daunting is occasionally things are going to get in the way.

00:32:09:10 - 00:32:33:08
Unknown
Distractions might come up. So what we're going to hear from now is productive to, again, give us the next part of this path to success. And it's specifically now about how we should consider a prize, but also punishments. So your pursuit, so your pursuit, like a trip through the galaxy on a rocket ship. You're trying to stay on course, but you're constantly pulled off course by gravitational forces.

00:32:33:10 - 00:33:04:25
Unknown
The giant planets and stars that create those gravitational forces represent the benefits of the status quo. But comfort, familiarity, status, authority and control Stand your says until you understand your commitment to how things are right now and why you don't want to start your worthy pursuit, it's almost impossible to free yourself. Take 2 minutes to list the prizes you will enjoy if you don't start your worthy pursuit and maintain the status quo, then list the prizes you expect to receive if you do pursue your worthy goal.

00:33:05:01 - 00:33:24:15
Unknown
Now take 2 minutes to write out the punishments you'll face if you maintain the status quo and the potential punishments you'll face if you embark on your worthy pursuit. Like temporary setbacks, frustration and embarrassment, your status quo punishments may include quite suffering, lack of fulfillment, and living with the knowledge that you could have done more with your life.

00:33:24:17 - 00:33:47:03
Unknown
Maintaining the status quo can also punish people around you if you become bitter and resentful of people taking risks, enjoying worthy pursuits. Now, if you've successfully identified more worthy pursuit prizes than status quo prizes and fewer worthy pursuit punishments instead of school punishments, you have wind at your back and are ready to begin your real pursuit by creating a reliable practice.

00:33:47:05 - 00:34:21:14
Unknown
A reliable practice is simply a series of small steps you trust yourself to take consistently to keep your pursuit alive and well. Find your practice through experimentation and iteration. Try several recommended practices until you find something that works for you, then simplified and streamline it through a series of weeklong experiments. I found that doing each push up and pull up set to half exhaustion with more than 15 minutes between sets as renowned strength coach Pebble too soon recommends and then adding air squats as a third exercise option has allowed me to keep my pursuit alive.

00:34:21:16 - 00:34:57:13
Unknown
The process of finding a practice is like an entrepreneur testing different mobile app products. The majority of the apps they make don't gain traction, but when one app starts to generate sales, they commit their time and resources to iterating that app until it generates a steady stream of revenue. Be a worthy pursuit entrepreneur by taking risks and experimenting with different practices until you find ineffective practice, then iterate that practice until you have a series of simple daily steps you can reliably perform to generate a steady stream of progress.

00:34:57:15 - 00:35:22:16
Unknown
Preaching to the Choir. Mark I was thinking that sounds like a write up for moonshots. That is moonshot. I really, honestly, I feel like the only thing I can say I agree. Yeah, I think, I think real estate market is like if let's, let's say that you and I are really stuck. I and we kind of know we should be doing something, but we're not.

00:35:22:18 - 00:35:56:00
Unknown
I would say the overwhelming thing we can do is think about the long term implications and punishments to use Michael's vocabulary that we would face. So if you keep eating too many snacks late at night and not exercising, then you'll get obese. Then you might get diabetes and then you're going to have some chronic problems. Okay, then your punishments and maybe you need to write about those and really go, okay, how much longer?

00:35:56:00 - 00:36:15:10
Unknown
I my prepared to have half a tub of ice cream every night. Like at what point do I actually want to say, yeah, I would like to leave place. That would be great. I mean, I make it dramatic for the sake of making this point here. But I think we're again, I think the element is big here. It's like, what's the cost if you don't change?

00:36:15:12 - 00:36:39:24
Unknown
And sometimes, yeah, that gets us out of our chair. I mean, the big thing, Mark and you know, this is my favorite, you just ask, what will my legacy be when I'm gone? How will I be remembered? And that for me is the absolute knockout punch. Whenever I'm lagging, I'm like, Hang on a second. Who do I want to be remembered as?

00:36:40:04 - 00:37:02:01
Unknown
How do I want to look at my positive impact on others? And that's that's good for me that that thing is so powerful. The fear of wasting time, wasting a life is such a powerful motivator for me. I say, go find your one right. Go find the one that makes you get out of bed when you're a bit stat.

00:37:02:01 - 00:37:33:20
Unknown
Mark, What's the punishment that you think? What's the mechanics you use to go wake up, man? Let's get at it. It's it's a good one because it's a good question and we should all ask ourselves that because, again, it leads us back to those two steps and around awareness and knowing what what matters to us. I think, Mike, for me, when I notice myself maybe getting into that state, I try and remember that nothing is permanent.

00:37:33:22 - 00:37:55:15
Unknown
And what I mean by that is just because maybe I'm feeling a little bit lethargic, maybe I don't feel challenged, or maybe it feels like one of those. As productive as Productivity Game was bringing to life those mobile apps, the of the entrepreneur, they were all failing. I tried to remind myself, well, it's only consistent and static if I choose it to be.

00:37:55:17 - 00:38:17:05
Unknown
So in that story that productivity game was bringing to Life VI and B as, the journey that that entrepreneur is going on with the failure of apps is education and growth. And it ultimately might lead to success. For me, when I'm feeling that little bit lethargic, maybe I've had half a cup of ice cream and I can't really be bothered.

00:38:17:07 - 00:38:50:02
Unknown
I think, Well, what do I do? I think that this is the moment. Is this the failure? Is this eight? Am I done? And instead I use that as motivation or a reminder? Yes then say, Well, nothing's temporary, Sorry, everything's temporary, nothing's permanent. If I choose and I take ownership of how my mood is, if I choose to dig in a little bit harder, maybe push that a little bit more, find out where my extremes are, then I can go to bed at night feeling more satisfied.

00:38:50:04 - 00:39:22:11
Unknown
I know that I'm in control of who I am and how I react to things. I am in control of how I view failures and challenges and that's a great motivator. But ultimately, again, it comes down to holding yourself accountable, doesn't it? Yeah, holding itself absolute. Remember these facts and follow through. Steve Jobs had this great quote, which is sort of a riff on, you know, some ancient wisdom, which is to live every day as if it was your last.

00:39:22:13 - 00:39:54:16
Unknown
Hmm. Yeah. I mean, imagine that this is the last day of our existence, Oak Creek. Reevaluation of priorities right now. Well, you know what? I'm happy if that was the case, that we'd put through a great show on NBC bookending the series. Because I think if we. If we ladder back to those goals, Mike, you and I and the moonshots family are all trying to learn out loud together with our listeners and members.

00:39:54:18 - 00:40:19:25
Unknown
That is one of those goals that is a thrilling, daunting and interesting aspect. And I think NBC would probably be pretty happy. I'm just giving that ongoing. I think I think he'd be proud and I think it's only appropriate that we kind of for our last tip to happen, perhaps one of the greatest themes of his work. So why don't you set that up for us as we play out the last clip of NBC's.

00:40:20:01 - 00:40:51:10
Unknown
That's right. Playing out the last clip not only of our episode today on how to begin, but the whole NBC series is Michael talking again with Marshall Goldsmith. And he's assessing some tests and he puts into practice one, committing to goals as well as a very, very important factor and theme, which is all about staying curious. One of the successes of the Coaching Habit book was one of the questions I call it the focused question, which is, So what's the real challenge here for you?

00:40:51:13 - 00:41:14:15
Unknown
And just has a key insight that coaches will be familiar with, which is the first challenge that people pull up is almost never. The real challenges are never the only challenge. It's worth staying curious a little bit longer so you can kind of poke at that challenge and actually in goal setting it's similar, which is like, look, the first time you define a goal, don't be fooled into thinking that that's the best version of your goal.

00:41:14:17 - 00:41:34:13
Unknown
A goal strengthens if you drafted and redrafted and you tested and you kind of do all you can to make sure it is optimal for you around, thrilling, important. And so I came up with three tests to help you kind of work through the drafting process. That's number one. This is really good for thrilling. I call it the spouse ish test.

00:41:34:15 - 00:42:01:08
Unknown
And if you're lucky in your life, you have somebody who is a deep, trusted friend, somebody who really knows you, somebody who really gets you in my case, and that to celebrate 30 years with my wife, Marcella. So she's my personal best. But not everybody has a spouse or not everybody. Spouse plays that role for them. But you want somebody who knows you who gets you, who sees your patterns, who laughs at your jokes, kind of has your back.

00:42:01:10 - 00:42:25:10
Unknown
And the spouses test as if you go and imagine or actually tell your spouse each person the worthy goal that you've drafted for yourself is and you test their reaction. Is it a is it a yes? Michael, That's amazing. You should definitely do that. Is it a yes? But Michael, stop talking about it because you've been talking about it for five years now and I want you to get off your ass and get on with it.

00:42:25:12 - 00:42:50:15
Unknown
Or is it a no, Don't do that. That's a terrible idea, Michael. You should definitely not do that. And it doesn't really matter what their responses, because whatever their responses is data, it's triangulation for you to kind of figure out how does this all fit with me? So that's the first test. The spouse ish test. The second test is really good for the important element, and I call this the photo test.

00:42:50:17 - 00:43:11:08
Unknown
And photo is in a cool place in New York where live it's it says for for the sake of and so this is where you look at your goal and you go, well for the sake of what will I be doing this? And it's a way of you connecting to that bigger picture, that bigger active service around how does this actually serve something that I care about?

00:43:11:10 - 00:43:40:00
Unknown
Then the third test is the Goldilocks test and the Goldilocks zone test, I should call it. And the Goldilocks zone is an idea out of astronomy. One of the cool things about astronomy, Marshal, is that, you know, they have the capacity now to look at distant stars and kind of find planets around the stars right there. That in the last ten years, like last six months, they found the first planet outside our galaxy, which is pretty amazing.

00:43:40:00 - 00:44:00:08
Unknown
23 million light years away. And as exciting as a planet is, even more exciting is if that planet is in the Goldilocks zone, because the Goldilocks zone is where it's not so hot that all the water evaporates and it's not so cold that all the water freezes. But it's not ice. The water is liquid just like it is here in our planet, right?

00:44:00:10 - 00:44:27:13
Unknown
There's liquid means life, or at least the potential for life. Right? So with the Goldilocks zone test, you're really asking yourself, does this girl have the right heft? Not too big, not too small, too hot, not too cold. Does it feel like I know how to start it, even if I don't quite know how to finish it? Well, we heard about the Goldilocks zone previously, so I think everyone is tuned into that, into that.

00:44:27:13 - 00:44:54:15
Unknown
It's a healthy stretch. Go That's another way of saying it. Yeah, but my son, me, he touched on another big theme that we've picked up on in his work is you got to share your worthy goals with others. You know, that's right. Show proof, social accountability, whatever you want to call it. Don't be the mad scientist up in your tower holding onto everything in your head because you will make their most elaborate excuses for why you didn't do it.

00:44:54:17 - 00:45:17:17
Unknown
That's exactly right. And as we know, you know, your brain is not a good computer. So not only if you're trying to spin a lot of tasks, as Ken Blanchard would tell us, but also when you're setting those goals, maybe it doesn't make sense to keep them all locked up in your brain or in your own journal. You might as well tell somebody else because you have no idea of sense checking them, do you?

00:45:17:23 - 00:45:47:18
Unknown
You don't know whether those are the right ones or not. Yes. And whilst, you know, Michael talked about curiosity towards others in that last clip, I think he's bigger theme of curiosity is be curious in how you can grow, be curious in how you can have impact on others and in the world. Be curious on how you can continually reappraise the speed and direction that you're going in order to be the best version of yourself.

00:45:47:18 - 00:46:26:01
Unknown
So this curiosity thing, Oh my, this, this speaks to me so strongly. It's really one of my mantras, you know, you know, be curious and open to the world is something that I say and listen to it every single morning. It's totally, totally the same for me. I have uncomfortable something that doesn't feel necessarily easy to do because that experience is a great experience.

00:46:26:01 - 00:46:55:20
Unknown
Regardless, you're going to learn from it as long as you stay curious. Yes. So I'm very curious to know, Mark, what is the homework assignment you're taking out of this show? Look, I think the thing that really caught me in today's show was the idea of prizes and punishments. I think that's a great extension and built into what we've been discussing around awareness, staying true and understanding who you are while also talking about it to somebody else.

00:46:56:00 - 00:47:13:05
Unknown
I think the idea of Tangibility Prizes, what am I going to get? What am I not going to get punishments? What am I going to get? What am I not going to get is a great, great way of grounding into quite practical steps and reminders of what you're trying to achieve, why you're doing it, and how you're going to garden.

00:47:13:10 - 00:47:34:02
Unknown
Yes, I think that for me, Mike is a great build that I'm going to remember. What are you taking away from today's show? But I do like the punishments thing, but just to be a bit different. Mark I right. I'm going to take this as a massive validation of curiosity. Curiosity in the universe in every small particle within it.

00:47:34:04 - 00:47:57:08
Unknown
I'd be curious in others in how you can be better. I think this is so important and has been something I've worked on for a long time and will continue to do so. So this is like a big re-energized curiosity. So, Mark, I want to say thank you to you and I want to say thank you to you, our members, our viewers and our listeners.

00:47:57:08 - 00:48:21:03
Unknown
Here we are together on show 234 with Michael Bengston and his work, How to Begin. And it started with a story of getting focused on doing the hard things and using his special tidy steps. That's thrilling, important and daunting in that little Venn diagram is a worthy goal, and along the way we'll get distractions. You can avoid them.

00:48:21:07 - 00:48:44:06
Unknown
Just consider your prizes and punishments. And above all else, stay curious with your goals with others in the world around you, and you'll be here together with us to learn out loud together to become the best version of yourself. Because that is what we're all about. Here on the Moonshots podcast. That's a wrap.