Adam Grant Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things
EPISODE 246
Join hosts Mike and Mark on the latest episode of Moonshots Podcast as they dive into the transformative insights of Adam Grant's groundbreaking book, "Hidden Potential." This episode explores the profound impact of character traits, character skills development, and the transformative Coach Effect.
Join hosts Mike and Mark on the latest episode of Moonshots Podcast as they dive into the transformative insights of Adam Grant's groundbreaking book, "Hidden Potential." This episode explores the profound impact of character traits, character skills development, and the transformative Coach Effect.
Buy The Book on Amazon
INTRO: Unmasking Hidden Potential with Adam Grant (0:00-2:43)
The episode starts with an enlightening discussion of Adam Grant's perspective on finding hidden potential in adulthood. Grant shares his wisdom with US Today, unraveling the secrets behind unlocking untapped abilities within ourselves. Get ready to embark on a journey of self-discovery and personal growth.
Segment 1: What Drives Growth (2:43-6:29)
Mike and Mark dissect the core concepts from "Hidden Potential" as they delve into the first audio clip. "What Drives Growth" explores the fundamental idea that fuels personal development and achievement. Discover how harnessing this driving force can propel you toward your aspirations in just under three minutes.
Segment 2: Cracking the Code of Character Traits (6:30-10:16)
Productivity Game takes center stage in the second audio clip. The hosts break down the intriguing concept of character traits and how they influence our journey towards self-improvement. Dive into the world of the "Proactive Imperfectionist" and learn how embracing imperfection can be a powerful tool on your path to success.
Segment 3: Building Character Skills (10:17-13:15)
Next, Mike and Mark explore the third audio clip, where Adam Grant introduces character skills through the chess metaphor. Learn how these character skills can be honed and applied to enhance your life. You'll gain valuable insights into this transformative concept in under three minutes.
OUTRO: Leaving a Lasting Legacy (13:16-16:36)
In the final segment, special guest Andrew Huberman joins the conversation as Mike, Mark, and Adam Grant close the show by discussing the "Coach Effect." This transformative skill not only opens your ego but also has the potential to create a lasting legacy. Explore the power of coaching and mentorship in shaping your journey toward success.
Tune in to this captivating episode of Moonshots Podcast to unlock your hidden potential, cultivate character traits and skills, and discover the keys to leaving a meaningful legacy in your personal and professional life. Don't miss out on this enriching conversation with Adam Grant and other thought leaders that will inspire you to reach new heights.
Buy The Book on Amazon
Transcript
00:00:04:25 - 00:00:19:01
Speaker 1
Hello and welcome to the Moonshot podcast. It's episode 245. I'm your co-host, Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined by the man himself, Mr. Mark Pearson Friedland. Good morning, Mark.
00:00:19:03 - 00:00:49:12
Speaker 2
Hey, good morning, Mike. Good morning, Listeners, viewers, subscribers. Once again, we are bringing an absolute powerhouse of an individual of a book, a set of lessons to you, our consumers and customers and viewers and listeners. Mike, you know, before we reveal and for those viewers who obviously have the picture of the cover behind us already know, this is bringing to the end of our sports individual mindset series.
00:00:49:14 - 00:01:05:15
Speaker 2
I think we're going out with a bang, but I think this is kind of a sad moment as well to a certain extent for me, because we've found such rich insights and key takeaways from all of the individuals that we've covered on this series. You know, I think it's been wonderful.
00:01:05:17 - 00:01:12:13
Speaker 1
Well, Mike, I might say to build on that, I don't know if we're going out like Warriors or Bulls.
00:01:12:15 - 00:01:46:22
Speaker 2
That's it. Because listeners and viewers, we are digging in this week to Steve cause a life. Now, Mike, we've obviously covered a little bit. Only reference is perhaps for those eagle eyed viewers and listeners. We covered Steve Kerr a little bit on the show based on last week's episode with Phil. This week we're actually giving a little bit more attention to this amazing NBA not only player Mike, but also coach who's one, not one, not two, but I believe it's eight NBA titles while being a player and or a coach.
00:01:46:24 - 00:01:55:14
Speaker 2
This is an individual who has crossed over that barrier, which I think is we're going to find out today. Mike, only few people have really successfully done along with Phil.
00:01:55:16 - 00:02:15:23
Speaker 1
That's true. So crazy things here. Steve Kerr, currently the coach of the Golden State Warriors. Also, when he played basketball, he played with a few interesting people, didn't he, other than Coach Phil Jackson, who he just did a show on? Who else did he kick around with? Mark?
00:02:16:00 - 00:02:28:10
Speaker 2
Somebody called Scottie Pippen. Somebody called Michael Jordan. You know, just a few of the biggest heavyweight record scoring and title holders within the NBA space.
00:02:28:12 - 00:02:29:00
Speaker 1
It's a.
00:02:29:00 - 00:02:30:00
Speaker 2
Small company. Really?
00:02:30:05 - 00:03:05:17
Speaker 1
Yes, yes, yes. Humble company. But I think the point here is we can learn from someone who has succeeded as a player and as a coach really in an unrivaled way. What's also really cool is whilst he was coached by Phil Jackson at Chicago, he's gone on to make his own style of leadership and of coaching. So this sports series has a perfect end to somebody who is coaching the greatest player of all time, Steph Curry in the NBA, and he played with the greatest player of the previous generation, which was Michael Jordan.
00:03:05:19 - 00:03:26:13
Speaker 1
So much to learn because sports is a beautiful metaphor for our lives, whether it's personally or professionally. And if you're looking for perhaps a less ego driven approach, then Steve Kerr is exactly who we should study. So I can't wait to dig in. Mark, where do you want to start?
00:03:26:15 - 00:03:41:05
Speaker 2
Well, I think as you've already mentioned, he does have his own style of leadership. So let's kick off from hearing from Steve Kerr himself. Tell us and actually tell Stanford Business School a little bit of how he wants to go into leadership and create his own blueprints.
00:03:41:07 - 00:03:45:25
Speaker 1
How would you describe your style of leadership in your own words?
00:03:46:01 - 00:04:15:14
Speaker 3
I think I lead my team a little bit like I raised my children. My wife and I did that together. And we always sort of gave them a lot of rope, but they kind of knew they they were responsible for that freedom. And so I believe in the same kind of leadership with the team. You can tell by the way we play, we you know, we're pretty fast paced or risky.
00:04:15:14 - 00:04:57:12
Speaker 3
We shoot a lot of crazy shots, especially Steph and Klay. But I believe that the freedom that they have makes them play more instinctively and that ultimately when you're coaching a basketball team, the players, it's their team. And so you have to give them the team. But give them the blueprint for how it's all going to work. And once, once the culture is set and the ideas set about, you know, what we're trying to accomplish, you kind of let them go and then you just rein them in when you feel like you need to bring them in.
00:04:57:14 - 00:05:03:08
Speaker 3
So I would I would say that's that's kind of my style.
00:05:03:10 - 00:05:30:01
Speaker 1
It's their team. Mark I think that was the key thing. I think it's so tempting particularly. I mean, imagine if you were a player who ascended to the greatest heights playing alongside Michael Jordan. You've got your own championship rings and then you have to find the humility and the absence of ego to say, no, this is going to be their team, not my team.
00:05:30:03 - 00:05:50:23
Speaker 1
And I think in when we study great sportspeople, we can see the temptations that we all face. If we've had some success in one place, we kind of want to swagger out into the other way and say, Hey, let me tell you how to do everything right. And so we learned with Ryan Holiday that ego is the enemy.
00:05:51:02 - 00:06:19:03
Speaker 1
You know, if you get too proud and if you're too full of yourself, try to make it your team instead of their team. I mean, what we're seeing here is Steve is almost basically like, guys, this is all yours. I'm just going to be kind of facilitating around the edges, but this is yours. And what he, I think, sets up for us is this this sense of freedom that the players are given also means that they're responsible.
00:06:19:05 - 00:06:43:25
Speaker 1
But I think it allows them to naturally play to their natural born strengths, like it's the most pure natural form of coaching. He's not trying to drill into them his formula. He's very much saying, like, Guys, this your team, we're going to play your formula. I'll like help set a few things up here, but I'm going to put you guys in the driving seat.
00:06:43:25 - 00:07:14:05
Speaker 1
And because of that, they feel freedom, responsibility and can play as purely as they want. I think this is really powerful because it it shows you how he's distinct from Phil was very much about the Zen. Steve is very much about selflessness, openness, and I'm putting the ownership back onto the players. Mark. I mean, there's a lot we could take if we think if we go from the basketball court to the boardroom, we can instantly see how we could use this, right?
00:07:14:07 - 00:07:37:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. Not only to the boardroom, but even, you know, as Steve calls out, parenting, you know, any sort of situation where you are in a position of that same managerial power, so to speak. It would be very, very tempting to rest on the accolades that you've received. You know, in this case, Steve's accolades and say, hey, guys, I know best.
00:07:37:03 - 00:07:55:13
Speaker 2
I know how to introduce to do this, I've done it before, so you all need to copy me rather than leading from a little bit. As we found out in the Phil episode from behind the scenes, so to speak, you know, he's very clear with the intention of being a coach in this regard. From Steve, you are there to set that vision.
00:07:55:15 - 00:08:15:15
Speaker 2
You are there to set and create this blueprint for the rest of the team to go out and do. I think you right within the business space, within parental situation, rather than telling your colleagues, your teammates, your kids, hey, this is how you've got to go and do it. That's most likely going to open up ideas of resentment.
00:08:15:17 - 00:08:38:19
Speaker 2
Maybe creativity is going to be squashed a little bit because suddenly an individual was trying to fit, you know, a square into a circle hole and they aren't used to that. Instead, playing to their strengths not only builds probably a more efficient situation, but probably a happier team as well, because suddenly they feel confident, you know. How good is it when you are allowed to go out and do the thing at work that you're good at?
00:08:38:25 - 00:08:52:23
Speaker 2
You feel confident, you get inspired, You probably help your teammates get inspired, too. It's a much more amicable way of of casting a team and casting, you know, a team either on the court or in the boardroom.
00:08:52:25 - 00:09:24:25
Speaker 1
So if we were to imagine this situation, Mark, that you're stepping in to a new you're going to go into a room where you're going to be introduced as the new manager to five people at work. If you were to take directing inspiration from Steve Kerr and really used the philosophy that he was talking about, then how would you use it in the meeting?
00:09:24:25 - 00:09:30:12
Speaker 1
How would you approach meeting? Hey everyone, meet Mark. He's the new boss. How would you handle it?
00:09:30:12 - 00:10:07:17
Speaker 2
I think you'd have. I think you'd have to play it fairly gently. You know, I think for me, similar to some of the work that we found from some of the other leadership series we've done, getting to know your team. You know, I think very much in line with what Phil was going was was leaning towards, but with a more Zen angle, as you've pointed out, and very much where I think Steve Kerr goes as a coach, getting to know those players and understanding what their strengths are comes from not only I think talking to the team, understanding what motivates them, what are the things that keep them up at night, what are the things
00:10:07:17 - 00:10:38:22
Speaker 2
that they're nervous about when they're on the court and the type of things that might put them off, distract them in moments of high pressure? Yeah, but also even research and sideline watching, You know, Steve's in that position where he's seen some of the greatest players in the world ever perform. So he probably gets a lot of and myself, if I was in a managerial position, I'd want to try and emulate that by seeing the work the teammates have done, you know, kind of like sitting in front of the VHS recorder and checking out the past games.
00:10:38:24 - 00:11:04:18
Speaker 2
It's understanding. What have these teammates done that's performed really well? What past projects have been exemplary? What role did each of those teammates have? And actually, I'm trying to get a little bit under the skin of what keeps them going, you know, what inspires them to come along and be those best version of themselves at work. I think it's probably easier perhaps in the sports space because they're so much documented.
00:11:04:20 - 00:11:20:17
Speaker 2
But going into the boardroom and analyzing teammates and the type of work that they do, I think it's absolutely possible. What would you do, Mike? You know, given given that space, if you were given the Steve Kerr hat and you were going into a business now?
00:11:20:19 - 00:11:49:22
Speaker 1
Okay. So if I try and think about how Steve Kerr would do it, I think he would go into the room. He would introduce himself to everybody and ask for their name. And then if there was this awkward silence and I was in that situation, I would say and using this is using Steve Kerr philosophy, what should we talk about?
00:11:49:24 - 00:11:55:08
Speaker 1
I would even use the agenda to them.
00:11:55:10 - 00:11:57:18
Speaker 2
Interesting. Really give them the control.
00:11:57:22 - 00:12:17:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, because he's all about being giving them the team. So what you can do is give them the agenda of the first meeting. Like let's, let's leave this out as fully as possible. Right. I'm not even going to try and say, I think we need to talk about these things. What do you guys think? I would even as as good or nice as that may be, I would say, what should we talk about?
00:12:17:22 - 00:12:28:25
Speaker 1
Yeah. And if they're still quiet, I'm saying, well, surely there must be some questions on your mind, maybe some concerns. Let's talk about that wherever you want to go. Yeah. It's your team. Your. Your business.
00:12:28:25 - 00:12:30:23
Speaker 2
Put them in the driving seat.
00:12:31:00 - 00:12:31:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, I.
00:12:31:12 - 00:12:36:18
Speaker 2
Think because as you say, he's the he's the guy behind the scenes. Yes, he's the blueprint, Craig.
00:12:36:20 - 00:12:55:04
Speaker 1
And I think what we're fighting against here is the temptation is like, I is not giving in to the desire. I've got to look like I know what I'm doing. Right, guys, I thought about it. I've got a ten point agenda and we're going to talk about all these things and then you're going to do these things and you do those things because that can be the temptation, right?
00:12:55:06 - 00:12:56:11
Speaker 1
But if you take it.
00:12:56:11 - 00:12:57:24
Speaker 2
Can be the attempt.
00:12:58:00 - 00:13:03:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, but if you put on your Steve, as you say, he's like, Hey, it's your team. What do you guys want to chat about?
00:13:03:25 - 00:13:23:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it's very bold, isn't it? I think a lot of managers, particularly perhaps first time, will be in positions where they want to step into that role and take control. They want to come in and demonstrate, Hey, you've made me the coach, you've made me the manager. You may be the leader for a reason. Let me show you why.
00:13:23:18 - 00:13:47:20
Speaker 2
And I think it's really refreshing. Actually. The more that we dig into Steve Kerr, the more refreshing it becomes because he had so many accolades, because he had so many records and he played with all these great players. The fact that he didn't come in and immediately lead like that is a wonderful demonstration of that character because he's able to come in and allow them to be the stars, allow them to be the drivers of this.
00:13:48:00 - 00:14:12:02
Speaker 1
And if you go back to Patrick Glen, the only underlying pillar of his pyramid of teamwork, it's trust. So you're already creating a trust moment because people are forced to come to the table with what matters to them. And if they can talk about that with this degree of safety, they're not shut down, they're not criticize us. They're actually hurt.
00:14:12:04 - 00:14:34:08
Speaker 1
Can you imagine throughout the course of that first meeting, if nothing else was achieved other than each of your team members could speak and share something that a question that really mattered to them. And it was discussed as a team and nobody was criticized. People were open to possibilities and the meeting just ended like that. You've already started to create the team.
00:14:34:08 - 00:14:36:13
Speaker 1
You're already being.
00:14:36:15 - 00:14:36:19
Speaker 2
The.
00:14:36:19 - 00:14:41:07
Speaker 1
Coach that lets the team take the ownership of the team. Pretty strong stuff, right?
00:14:41:10 - 00:14:51:15
Speaker 2
You're setting that precedent. Amazing, amazing stuff already. Straight off the bat. We only had one clip, Mike, but clearly we can talk about Steve go all day.
00:14:51:17 - 00:14:56:04
Speaker 1
We can also talk about our members all day because they're pretty awesome as well. You know.
00:14:56:06 - 00:15:18:25
Speaker 2
Look, I think there's one set of teammates that, you know, you and I and the moonshots family have that we're eternally grateful for. And we really, really do appreciate, respect and admire all of our individuals who come and support us and keep the moonshot lights on day in, day out. And that includes Bob, Ken, DeMar, Marjan, Connor, Rodrigo, Liza and Sid.
00:15:19:01 - 00:15:43:16
Speaker 2
Mr. Bond, you're Paul Berg and Kalman, Joe Christian, Samuel and Barbara, Andre, Chris, Deborah and Lisa, Steve, Craig, Daniel, Andrew Ravi Event Karen and Raul, Nicole Ingram, Dirk and Harry Karthik, then Catie and Marco, all of whom are our annual members. But remember that Bob is not one, not two, but a three year member. Bob, thank you again for always being with us.
00:15:43:19 - 00:16:22:17
Speaker 2
Hot on his heels. Jet Roger, Anna Roar, Neverland. James, Diana and Wade, Christoph, Dennis, Lauren, Smitty, Corrie Gaylor, Bertram and Daniela, Mike, Dan Antonio and Vanessa, Zachary, Katie Austin and Fred Lauren's Jazz and Ola are brand new members. Guys, thank you so much for coming out of the bat. Straight into the moonshots, family keeping our lights on. Not only are you helping us get the word of the moonshots message out into the ears and the eyes of people around the world, but also you helping us pay a few of the bills that come along with running a podcast that has 100,000 listeners a month.
00:16:22:17 - 00:16:23:05
Speaker 2
Isn't that right?
00:16:23:05 - 00:16:56:20
Speaker 1
Mike It's pretty awesome stuff. And you remember last week I got all excited and looked up when Bob actually joined, or I thought we could continue this little segment and let's listen to two people, two of our great members who joined in September of 2021. That's DeMar and Ken. So they've been with us for many, many years and we just want to say thank you guys, really appreciate your support, helping us create the blueprint for shooting to the Moon.
00:16:56:20 - 00:17:16:22
Speaker 1
So thank you. We're very grateful. And if you, our listeners, viewers, I think yourself that you want to be part of this, get access to the moonshots Masters series. You can do all of that by becoming a member. And to do that, go to Moonshot Studio, hit the big members button and you will be off to the races.
00:17:16:24 - 00:17:44:10
Speaker 1
I would say you will be learning how to slam dunk in life because if you want to shoot for the moon, if you want to be the best version of yourself, then life has so much to give you. So come join us, Learn out loud and be the best version of yourself. And what's really interesting in the journey of Steve Kerr is he found the best version of himself as a player, but also as a coach.
00:17:44:10 - 00:17:57:02
Speaker 1
And as we said, he's won NBA championships in both modes. So what a masterclass we have in this next segment because this is our chance to understand what it takes to switch between the two, doesn't it?
00:17:57:04 - 00:18:15:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, this is where it becomes really fun. Mike We can now get into the world of Steve Kerr and a little bit about how he behaves, as well as the mindset that he brings. So kicking that off, let's ask Steve a fan question. Let's hear about the favorite part of coaching that Steve experiences and how relevant responsive bility is.
00:18:15:22 - 00:18:39:24
Speaker 3
What has been your favorite part of coaching and how do you compare the feeling of winning a championship as a player and as a coach? Yeah, great question. I think as a as a player, you're very locked in on your own, your own game, your own routine. And as a coach, you're thinking about everybody else and and you're trying to help everyone.
00:18:40:01 - 00:19:07:05
Speaker 3
So actually, I've found winning the championship as a coach was even more gratifying then than as a player because you because you've put in all this energy into the whole group and you see everyone how happy everyone in the organization is. And when you're a player, it's an amazing feeling too, especially with your teammates. But it's more, it's more insular, it's more, you know, you're just locked in on your own routine day after day.
00:19:07:05 - 00:19:13:04
Speaker 3
And the coaching is, you know, you feel responsible for everyone.
00:19:13:06 - 00:19:43:21
Speaker 1
What a fascinating insight. We didn't get this from Phil. Phil had also won championships as player and coach. But it's really interesting to see that for someone who played with Michael Jordan in a winning shots and achieved great acclaim, Steve Kerr did those things. He's got the multiple rings as a player. I can tell you that as a coach it was even better.
00:19:43:23 - 00:20:21:06
Speaker 1
And I think that goes to the satisfaction and facilmente that we as humans feel when we help others. And I believe this is a massive insight into coaching and mentoring because I personally would have to agree like the chance to spend time with people and help them develop, learn new skills, guide and foster, and help them build confidence, help help them build new capacities is so fulfilling.
00:20:21:08 - 00:20:55:01
Speaker 1
Like you just feel good about yourself because you helped others. And I think that's really interesting that as people in our professional and personal lives, if we get into that coach, that mental mindset, it actually it can be extremely rewarding. And I think this also helps us see that the ego is the enemy. Don't just focus on being the superstar yourself.
00:20:55:03 - 00:21:13:08
Speaker 1
Take the same energy and give that to helping others unlock it in them selves. And we saw this direct admission from Steve Kerr that it was more satisfying than winning with Michael Jordan, something that we all would be amazing. Isn't that crazy?
00:21:13:10 - 00:21:35:15
Speaker 2
I think you've actually hit the nail on the head, Mike. I think it comes down to that desire and motivation that Steve Kerr has with regards to celebrating and cheerleading others. You know, I think it's a really interesting clip, that one, because you get to see a real behind the scenes peek at how an individual reacts to winning both.
00:21:35:17 - 00:21:57:19
Speaker 2
You know, as a player, he mentions being secular a little bit more internal. I think that's down to the practice, the satisfaction of doing your best work on the court and supporting, you know, everybody around you to help you get to that point. So I think I think that's that's interesting to hear. And I think as a teammate and a colleague, that's probably how a lot of us see the success of a business.
00:21:57:21 - 00:22:16:20
Speaker 2
You know, when the business has a great year where you will sit back and say, well, you know, I worked hard, I'm pleased that it got to that point. The difference then, when we hear that from a coaching or a leadership perspective, I think you're much more ingrained. You personally invested in time, you've really considered all of the involved, all the cogs.
00:22:16:24 - 00:22:36:15
Speaker 2
You're kind of like the engine that keeps everything moving, don't you? Yeah, making sure that people are playing in the right position and so on, both within, both on the court but also in the boardroom. Yeah, and I think that's a really interesting, unique clip actually. We've probably never heard from a business leader, let alone a coach or a sports star.
00:22:36:17 - 00:22:58:13
Speaker 2
Be able to reference two totally different mindsets and approaches and how they had to cross over from one to the other, but still maintain the ability to look back at the other and compare, Yes, you know, be able to look back and say, actually, this one feels better because of the difference in the shift that I've had with getting to this point.
00:22:58:15 - 00:23:26:09
Speaker 1
So you can very unique. Yeah, it is You can take this and think about like a work construct. And if you think about the earlier parts of your career, you're like sort of an individual practitioner, the player, and then all the things that you do like personal responsibility, learning skills, creating value. And then at some point someone says you are you're so good as a single individual contributor.
00:23:26:09 - 00:23:56:24
Speaker 1
We now want you to manage other contributors. So they do well. But what Steve Kerr is teaching us is that everything changes. In fact, if you look at it, a lot of people in the workplace who get made managers are terrible managers because they should just be a player, not a manager. And what happens is they try and use techniques that worked for them as a player in the mirror force situation, in the in the manager situation.
00:23:57:03 - 00:24:24:09
Speaker 1
So what happens is as a player is an individual contributor on a sports field or in a company, you're very much focused on your routines, your health, your stretching, your performing, you knowing your work, delivering your deliverables right? But it starts with understanding people. If you're a leader, if you're a coach, it's all about understanding the different players, creating an environment where they can take ownership.
00:24:24:11 - 00:24:46:15
Speaker 1
It's not about you, so your circle of influence changes dramatically and your attention to the things around you, the externalities, the social drivers as opposed to Do I know how to do a thing in a spreadsheet? Do I know how to hit a ball in a particular way? And I think this insight is really powerful for all of our viewers, listeners and members.
00:24:46:17 - 00:25:17:10
Speaker 1
When you make a transition from an individual contributor to a manager in whatever part of life maybe it is with sports, maybe it is in the office or at home, you have to remember that your whole mindset needs to swing in to, okay, this is all about them facilitating an environment, creating an agreed agenda amongst everyone to take ownership and this stuff is tricky stuff, particularly if you like.
00:25:17:12 - 00:25:37:06
Speaker 1
As an individual athlete, all I have to do is train harder, go faster, stretch more, eat better, sleep better. That's all within your control. And then that same person then has to like help someone unlock a new way of thinking, create trust in the team. All these things are outside of you, so your circle of influence is radically changed.
00:25:37:10 - 00:25:47:25
Speaker 1
So it's it's a completely different game. And I think we saw that from Steve, but it's worth it, right? It's really worth it. It.
00:25:48:01 - 00:26:09:02
Speaker 2
It work. Clearly, it's worth it not only from that success, it's an accolade perspective. You know, as we've heard, you know about Steve, we know how successful he's been as a player, as a coach, following being a player, I think what's interesting that we've now heard from from Steve there is the fact that he got a lot of satisfaction from it.
00:26:09:04 - 00:26:49:23
Speaker 2
You know, it's that challenge, you know, this growth mindset. I think we're starting to maybe see this coming through. As you were just pointing out, Mike, the different skill sets, the different patterns, the different circles of influence that a player might have, their needs get rewritten. Can you imagine how tricky that would be, particularly if you are super successful and you've got, you know, five rings already and you then going into a situation where you're being told, sorry, not being told, but you're challenging yourself to take a step back and not necessarily drive in the way that you're used to, to then go out and see almost the same level of success in that way.
00:26:49:25 - 00:26:59:17
Speaker 2
As a coach, it's wild to me. It's an amazing demonstration of somebody really being skillful, absolutely able to change.
00:26:59:19 - 00:27:08:01
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's like self-fulfilling, All right? Because. Because that's why you see so many sports stars being terrible coaches.
00:27:08:03 - 00:27:23:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right, because they're using the same patterns that they were used to as players. Likewise, if a bad manager's in a situation, it's because they're still using the same rulebook that they had as a as a colleague, as a as a teammate, as opposed to a people leader.
00:27:23:09 - 00:27:39:03
Speaker 1
And if you think about one of the greatest temptations, if you've known success as an individual contributor or as a player, and then you become a coach, one of the great temptations would be to like, Hey guys, I know it'll.
00:27:39:05 - 00:27:53:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. So it would be so easy to do and so tempting because that's the lifestyle that you've been in. You know, you're in front of the cameras telling everybody that you know what you're doing cumulatively.
00:27:53:21 - 00:28:01:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, but you guys with silverware, you got all these things as a result of it and you're like, Hey guys, I've done this all before. Just do what I say.
00:28:01:09 - 00:28:24:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, but, Mike, I mean, the good news is we've actually got a clip that comes somewhat addresses this. We've got a clip now that I think is leading us on from this idea of taking that approach, being the smartest man in the room as bongi stamina would probably tell us to to not be I think would be very, very tempting, particularly as a player, to be in that space.
00:28:24:03 - 00:28:36:17
Speaker 2
So fortunately for us, we've actually got a clip now from Steve Kerr telling a story that really helped him understand and taught him a lesson about being a leader and how he shouldn't be a know it all. Coach.
00:28:36:19 - 00:29:03:02
Speaker 4
I never wanted to coach you with all I things. That was pretty common. I coach is exactly what we see was a collaborative effort last night. We had a great moment with 3 seconds left, two and a half seconds left after Steph made a shot. We had a couple of timeouts left, so we let them come out. Orlando came out, set up their play, and then we called Timeout.
00:29:03:04 - 00:29:24:05
Speaker 4
We wanted to see what they were set up and we have scouts who look at all this stuff and Herschel is right behind the bench, yells to the right and Tobias Harris. So we kind of tried to figure out what their run diagram, as the team said, I think this is what they're going to do going to Harris but they're encircle this guy and this is the play or whatever.
00:29:24:07 - 00:29:40:12
Speaker 4
And the other process is coach, put football, get on the ball, football, get on the ball. And at the time we were going to have Harrison Barnes on the ball because we're going to switch everything. And we had because we had five guys and we're all the same size, we're just going to switch everything so they could set screens.
00:29:40:14 - 00:29:58:14
Speaker 4
And for us this is critical. And once they right football get on the ball just like crazy. And you know so it was always I told the team after the game, I said, you know, I wasn't even in the game, but you remind me we should have the ball. That's how it should work. It's it's a group effort.
00:29:58:16 - 00:30:11:12
Speaker 4
And I think I think players appreciate that and they see strength when when coaches do that know because nobody has all the answers.
00:30:11:14 - 00:30:36:15
Speaker 1
Nobody has all the answers. Be open to advice and ideas from others. I mean, what is so great about that? This is a guy that's won eight championships and he is freely admitting that he had nothing to do with the winning play in the game. He's like, Yeah. So I had this scout told me to do this thing, and then another coach told me to do this and we did it and we won.
00:30:36:17 - 00:31:08:19
Speaker 1
And he's like, Yeah, absolutely zero to do with me, right? He he did not pretend to have all the answers. And what he was alluding to is actually when everybody's contributing to this success, it actually makes everyone feel even more confident in each other because everyone's contributing. I mean, think about this. How many times do we see those really addicted TAUREAN leaders leave a business and the whole thing falls apart because there is only one leader?
00:31:08:21 - 00:31:36:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think you're totally right that happens a lot, you know, and I think when we hear this story, this admission from Steve and he he has that awareness, as we heard at the end of that interview, he has the awareness that actually the team perform really well and react really well to this approach, this style of coaching and leadership, being open, collaborative, they're able to raise, you know, different points of view.
00:31:36:22 - 00:32:04:14
Speaker 2
Suddenly, I think you're right. You're hearing from a coach who's remember, not only a coach, he's been on the other side. He's been in that position in the past, being able to again, be in that that situation and say, you know what, okay. To take a step back, it's again, refreshing. It's again reminding me, Mike, that to be an individual who empowers people to success, you don't have to roll with an iron fist.
00:32:04:16 - 00:32:47:00
Speaker 2
You don't have to be the loudest or necessarily the smartest perhaps person in the room. You've got to be surrounded by like minded individuals who are all working towards that common goal because that diversity of thinking, that spread of responsibility, let's let's even say delegation, perhaps that ability to delegate decision making from, you know, the leader who's in charge to people who have different skill sets, suddenly enables more points of view to come out, you know, new ideas to come through and that's where the real not only funding of work can come in, because suddenly everybody's doing, you know, things that they feel good at and they feel confident.
00:32:47:02 - 00:33:12:20
Speaker 2
But I think also from the business perspective, like we've heard from Lindsey, only as you were calling out earlier with trust, you're playing the best way of creating a situation. You're creating the best way for a team to play in order to go out and be successful, to go out and be the best version of the players, the teammates that they possibly can be, because you've enabled them to get into that mindset and that way of thinking.
00:33:12:24 - 00:33:40:22
Speaker 1
And it reminds me of the rule of be the last to speak. If you want to be a good leader, be the last to speak, encourage others to speak first. Hey, guys, how do you think we should solve this? Any ideas that you might have ideas but like be open to what others might be able to contribute? I just love the fact that someone as successful as her is willing to let this process happen.
00:33:40:24 - 00:34:02:05
Speaker 1
But even more so, I love the fact that he is promoting this idea. He's literally talking about a game I think that had happened the night before and he's like, Yeah, it was the Scouts idea. And then the coach said, Put Andrew Bogut on the player. And so he's basically not only did he let it happen, he's promoting this.
00:34:02:07 - 00:34:28:12
Speaker 1
Like we talk about this theme of selflessness from Kerr as a coach. He's like, man, everyone's doing great. I got nothing to do with me. And just so at ease with it because I think what happens is he knows and he certainly witnessed the success he had under Phil Jackson, the success he has now acting this way.
00:34:28:14 - 00:34:53:13
Speaker 1
So this tells me it's really something worth studying. Apart from his record book, you can just see as he was talking on camera there, he's like, this guy did this, and then this guy did that, and it was great. And we won and he is like an ambassador for this selflessness. He's an ambassador for it being a team sport.
00:34:53:15 - 00:35:02:15
Speaker 1
And whilst technically basketball is a team sport, we talk a lot about life being a team sport. And I think that's where we get the evidence, isn't it?
00:35:02:15 - 00:35:29:00
Speaker 2
MAN Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly it. It feels very much to me. Mike, as though what we're learning from Steve today and as we've heard from all of our sports megastars, is that we've covered in, in this series, there are so many transferable insights and skills that can benefit us, whether we're teammates, whether we're managers and leaders of people, or whether we're actually coaches.
00:35:29:02 - 00:35:53:18
Speaker 2
You know, all of those buckets seem to be inspired by. And you touched upon it a second ago, making those around you at ease. Yeah, making them more comfortable, relaxed, confident. And I think that when you and I've certainly worked with bosses in the past who maybe would rule a little bit more directly. You don't necessarily feel at ease because you're second guessing a lot.
00:35:53:25 - 00:36:12:01
Speaker 2
You're wondering, is this the right way? It should be done right and to be whether that's a player on the court or whether that's an individual in the boardroom or behind a computer, that feeling you're not at ease. So I don't think you can ever achieve that best work until you do me high cheek, Send me high with flow.
00:36:12:03 - 00:36:39:14
Speaker 2
All of those elements and those practices that we've learned are completely transferrable onto the basketball court, as we've learned throughout the series. And I think you're right, this element is a total extension of that. You have to create the ability for those teammates and those around you to feel confident and at ease with what they do. And that just comes down to really understanding them as people and understanding how best to enable them.
00:36:39:16 - 00:36:41:24
Speaker 2
When you're trying to go out and.
00:36:42:01 - 00:37:07:02
Speaker 1
Totally I mean, it reminds me of I mean, totally one breath, one mind one time with that thinking that we got from Phil. But here's the interesting thing, is that Billie Jean King, who played in a solo sport, was talking about, I'm not just fighting for young girls. I'm not trying to help just young girls. I'm fighting to help everyone.
00:37:07:04 - 00:37:19:22
Speaker 1
And she didn't see it as maybe as singular as others did. She's like, in order to be the best version of myself, Billie Jean King is like, no, I'm helping everyone.
00:37:19:24 - 00:37:20:13
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:37:20:15 - 00:37:59:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so this is really interesting that how sports is teaching us about discipline. It's teaching us about teamwork, but actually the true greats are all revealing to us that this humility to serve others, even if they're in a single play, a sport, is still about helping others. That I think is so perfect for how we should think about our performance in a professional place like a business, or how we contribute to family and to friends.
00:37:59:18 - 00:38:18:08
Speaker 1
Right? Because can be a giver, not a taker in all of those areas of life. And for sure, if it does so well on the basketball court or the tennis court, I'm sure it's going to do equally great in the boardroom or at home, too, right?
00:38:18:10 - 00:38:59:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think you're totally right. And again, it's this idea of growth mindset. You know, the idea with Kobe and the Mamba mentality was getting better each day. So the awareness that you're you're always capable of improvement. Like we're hearing from Steve here today, this idea of not coming in, knowing that you are the holder of so many accolades, not coming in to a boardroom and knowing that you've perhaps got the most experience, the most you know, recognition, but instead coming in with that humility, that ability to be a teammate still is is really interesting.
00:38:59:04 - 00:39:05:18
Speaker 2
It's been a fascinating process, actually. But, Mike, I mean, we're still not quite done without Steve Kerr.
00:39:05:20 - 00:39:12:14
Speaker 1
Actually. boy. I think this might be the classic one of we've left the best to last.
00:39:12:16 - 00:39:40:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think you might be right, because as you can hear and see listeners and viewers, we've got so much to learn from Steve. He's he's clearly an inspirational leader as well as a player. And what we've already heard from a couple of these different clips is his ability to motivate. So let's hear now from Steve again, demonstrating now a little bit of perhaps, shall we say, behind the scenes action, actually, Mike, about how he motivates his players.
00:39:40:19 - 00:39:59:25
Speaker 1
Yeah, let's let's let's just pause there for a sec. I think we just need to set this up a little bit. So this is particularly important for those who can't see this. This is Steve Kerr talking to Steph Curry on the sideline during a game and I won't hold you back any more. Mike, you can unleash that clip.
00:39:59:25 - 00:40:00:21
Speaker 1
This is.
00:40:00:23 - 00:40:03:05
Speaker 2
Special.
00:40:03:07 - 00:40:23:12
Speaker 5
I show you as you're shooting solos. That's your plus minus. All right. So it's not always tied together. You're doing great stuff out there. The tempo is so different when you're out there. Everything you generate for us is so positive. It shows up here, not always there, but it always shows up here. You're doing great to carry on.
00:40:23:12 - 00:40:24:13
Speaker 5
My son Allen.
00:40:24:13 - 00:40:30:14
Unknown
Loved to feel whatever the hell you're feeling right now, just once in my life for me, like if I.
00:40:30:14 - 00:40:47:12
Speaker 5
Were like five, four, six and made four threes, that was about the best I ever did. Love it. One of the things I love about you is you're like two for 11. No hesitation shooting a 60 footer. Nobody in the league does. You have so much confidence in yourself and within games like this, you turn it out like that.
00:40:47:19 - 00:40:55:15
Speaker 5
It's awesome. Amazing. Wish I had your confidence. What was like, You know my mentors. You are always telling us in these situations.
00:40:55:19 - 00:41:03:25
Unknown
They're supposed to be hard to trust. And you know, for you.
00:41:04:01 - 00:41:30:01
Speaker 1
I mean, where do you start, Mike? I mean, so this is one of the greatest coaches who played who is easily one of the greatest players in his role. Steve Kerr Right. So he was a great three point shooter and he's coaching Steph Curry like one of the greatest of all time. And that to see behind the scenes how he talks to Steph Curry.
00:41:30:03 - 00:41:54:22
Speaker 1
I mean, one of the things that's so nice about it is it's a reminder that we all need kindness and support from others. Even if you're Steph Curry, I mean, that's one take in here. He still needs to be told, How you doing? All right, man, You doing good. But, man, to see the humility and it's all full of praise, like Steve is like, basically, I'm in awe of you.
00:41:55:00 - 00:42:16:06
Speaker 1
I wish I had your confidence. I wish this was good. This is great. This is remarkable. Keep doing your contributing to the team. Like the effort that he's going to to lift up Steph Curry is tremendous. And I think what a privilege to see how the best of the best support each other. I mean amazing.
00:42:16:08 - 00:42:44:14
Speaker 2
I loved one of the soundbites there where they've obviously won. And Steve's response is congrats to you. He's very, very specific at saying to the player, this is this is your celebration. Well done. Yeah. What what a unique, again, unique leadership behavior to turn the success and the accomplishment and put it entirely on the people that that were there, that were doing it.
00:42:44:16 - 00:42:49:20
Speaker 2
You know, obviously it's you. We could never say that Steve wasn't behind the scenes having very.
00:42:49:20 - 00:42:51:07
Speaker 1
Important right.
00:42:51:09 - 00:42:53:17
Speaker 2
Very important key essential.
00:42:53:19 - 00:43:35:20
Speaker 1
Because it's so one day nice dress fact just for one thing is the season before he started coaching Klay Thompson Draymond Green Steph Curry Bonds but the core unit team was already they already played together at least one full season right Steve Kerr turns up and in the first year of him coaching they win same guys so you get a before and after snapshot it's not like Steph joined when Steve Kerr No Steph had been playing for them for years so that's the ultimate proof that something special happened when Steve Kerr turned up right?
00:43:35:25 - 00:43:41:00
Speaker 1
Yet he still. Yeah, puts it back to him thanks to you I.
00:43:41:00 - 00:44:11:09
Speaker 2
Love it that that as you as you set it up it is perhaps one of the most inspiration. No bits actually, you know being able to see and hear Steve in that position of power, really focusing on building those individuals up reminds me that whenever I'm in that situation with colleagues, with direct reports and so on, being in a situation where you can choose how to react, you can choose to say, Hey, we did it, well done.
00:44:11:11 - 00:44:35:09
Speaker 2
You can choose to discipline if needed, whatever the situation might be. There is always the opportunity for that bit of kindness, for that little bit of support, empathy, recognition that and we touched upon this, Mike, I think in the Phil episode as well, the idea of the shared experience bringing the teammates together. Yeah. And the ability to get through, you know, tough times when you've shared it.
00:44:35:11 - 00:44:48:08
Speaker 2
I think equally as we were touching upon, we celebrate those moments when you've shared something great, you know, in your case and the story that you told us, Mike, I think it was you going and making food together in some glorious kitchen.
00:44:48:08 - 00:44:49:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah.
00:44:49:08 - 00:45:09:04
Speaker 2
I kind of. I kind of like where Steve's taking us here, which is an extension of that. The recognition of you've done so well, you've been fantastic. Keep doing what you're doing. I wish I had your confidence, your skill level. It's something so easy, but so valuable. And I think that's something that we could all do a little bit more.
00:45:09:07 - 00:45:25:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think. And so like, if we got the ideas in one breath, one more time from Phil, it's all about you. It's all about the selflessness he has been came at Steve Kerr right?
00:45:25:12 - 00:45:31:25
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It's that selflessness, empathy, humility and grace. I think Steve. Steve.
00:45:31:25 - 00:45:56:18
Speaker 1
Has What a legend. What a legend. And just if our listeners, viewers and members hadn't worked out, I am quite the Warriors fan. I think having lived in the Bay Area for a long time. But man, he is quality, quality. And just talking about Bay Area coaches, there's a guy called Kyle Shanahan who coaches the San Francisco 49 is quite the coach as well.
00:45:56:18 - 00:46:15:04
Speaker 1
So let us know if you'd like us to do a show on the 49 is because they are one crazy team out of the Bay Area as But Mark, what is the homework assignment learning from the man who puts others before himself? Well, what gets your attention next week. Well, you.
00:46:15:04 - 00:46:45:12
Speaker 2
Know what, Mike? I think the idea of motivating others, being selfless, being able to really call out and recognize other people's achievements as well as the effort, I think is the key thing for me. I think the idea of coming in and wiping slate clean and not having any ego is is essential. But actually from an actionable perspective, I think I think the Inspire Others piece might take it for me this week.
00:46:45:14 - 00:46:49:03
Speaker 2
What about you, Mike? We have we had some great lessons here from Steve.
00:46:49:03 - 00:47:00:00
Speaker 1
Yeah I think the don't be an know it all because it's very tempting to use what you know as your authority rather than the service to others. So yeah, I like that one.
00:47:00:03 - 00:47:06:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Great lessons, amazing inspiration from the legend. Steve Kerr.
00:47:06:03 - 00:47:35:03
Speaker 1
yeah, absolutely. Well, Mark, thank you to you and thank you to you, our listeners, our viewers and our members to here today, we studied the work of Steve Kerr and his book Our Life on Show 245. That's right. There's quite a few shows. And it started with the idea of getting to know the team. In fact, giving the team back to the team so that they could play your blueprint.
00:47:35:05 - 00:47:59:02
Speaker 1
And it really does start with this journey towards not only taking responsibility for yourself, but transitioning to take responsibility for others. And as you go on that journey as a coach, don't fall into the big trap of trying to be a no. It'll always be a learner, always have a great mindset. Do that and you'll be a great person and a great coach too.
00:47:59:04 - 00:48:09:23
Speaker 1
So all of these things will help you on the way to being a best version of yourself. And you can do that right here and learn out loud together on the Moonshots podcast. That's a wrap.