Keep Going BY Austin Kleon: 10 Ways to Stay Creative in Good Times and Bad

EPISODE 259

Join hosts Mike and Mark on the Moonshots Podcast as they explore the transformative insights of Austin Kleon's book Keep Going. In this episode, they explore Kleon's wisdom on sustaining creativity through challenges and fostering consistent growth.
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Links
Buy "Keep Going" on Amazon: Link
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Watch this episode on YouTube: Link
INTRO Mike and Mark kick off the episode by discussing why Austin Kleon wrote "Keep Going," featuring insights from Kleon himself and Debbie Millman. They explore the reality that creativity may not get easier over time but is a continuous journey of learning and adaptation.
Clip 1 Guest Kevin Yee breaks down the concept of healthy creative goals versus result-based goals, emphasizing the importance of sustainable creative practices that nurture long-term growth.
Clip 2 Kevin Yee shares another critical insight from Kleon's book, focusing on the significance of habits and routines in maintaining creative momentum and staying present in the creative process.
OUTRO The episode concludes with Austin Kleon's reflections on the value of boredom in fostering creativity, highlighted in a conversation with Debbie Millman. They discuss how prioritizing reflection can lead to deeper insights and new creative breakthroughs.
About "Keep Going" by Austin Kleon, "Keep Going" encourages readers to develop a sustainable creative practice that thrives amidst challenges. Kleon advocates for routines, embracing constraints, seeking inspiration from diverse sources, sharing work openly, staying playful, and persisting through setbacks as essential strategies for continuous creative growth.
Links
Buy "Keep Going" on Amazon: Link
Become a Moonshot Member: Patreon Link
Watch this episode on YouTube: Link
About Moonshots Podcast: Moonshots Podcast is your gateway to unlocking your full potential. Hosts Mike and Mark explore the mindset and habits of successful individuals, offering actionable insights that listeners can apply to enhance their personal and professional lives. Join them as they learn out loud and uncover the secrets of success from thought leaders and entrepreneurs worldwide.
Transcript

00:00:02:00 - 00:00:31:24
Unknown
Hello and welcome to the Moonshots podcast. It's episode. Wait for it. 259. I'm your co-host, Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined by the man himself, Mr. Mark Pearson. Freeman. Good morning. Mark. Hey. Good morning Mike. Good morning, listeners, members, subscribers and everybody else who's out there dialing in and checking in on the moonshot show today as we dive in, Mike, as you say, into show number 259, if you can believe it, boy.

00:00:32:02 - 00:00:54:25
Unknown
We do have an action packed one today, though, don't we? We do. somewhat fitting for 259 shows. One might say, Mark, what would be a motto for us to have reached 259 shows? It would be. It would be to keep going. And fortunately enough for you and I, as well as our listeners and members. Mike, that's exactly the topic of today's episode.

00:00:55:04 - 00:01:19:21
Unknown
This is going to be the third show on our series with Austin Kleon. And today, Mike, we're leaning into his book, Keep Going, which is all about as we're going to figure out in today's show, the ideas of routine, the ideas of embracing maybe a bit of solitude, maybe even a bit of boredom, but ultimately maintaining your ability to keep on going with your artistic but also productive work.

00:01:19:23 - 00:01:48:02
Unknown
I mean, what a great call to action and great topic for a show so far into the moonshots library. Listen, I think, sustaining creativity is something that we all dream about. I'm not sure how regularly we actually achieve this. Well, I'm taking a lot of notes on this show, but in all seriousness, this three part series from Austin, what I love about him first of all, he's a regular somewhat, one might say, nerdy dude doing well.

00:01:48:02 - 00:02:29:22
Unknown
And I think that's just great. And secondly, he's taken us on a journey on how to start, and find the courage to be creative and then to step in and find your own voice in creativity. In this third installment, I think, really touches upon how to sustain creativity. Because like so much in life, whether you're an athlete, an entrepreneur, or someone doing a project in your community, often we start out with such great hope and ambition, and then after that honeymoon period or the peak of inflated expectations, we come to a crashing halt.

00:02:29:22 - 00:02:55:00
Unknown
We get to the valley of darkness or just pain. You know, we thought it was going to be amazing name in headlights. And you're six months in and there's not much happening. And the worst thing of all, Mark, is in these moments we ask a terrible question, particularly when this is our life's work. We say, should I give up?

00:02:55:02 - 00:03:16:25
Unknown
Yeah, I stop and boy, Austin Kleon is going to tell us how to get through that. Because the truth is, it's always going to be hard and there's always going to be self-doubt. But those that win mark, those that truly win in all facets are those that keep going, right. Oh, I couldn't have said it better myself. And I think Austin will be sitting in a chair somewhere.

00:03:16:25 - 00:03:45:07
Unknown
Maybe blocking out the newspaper thinking, you know, might these guys on the moonshot show, they have summarized it and consolidated it perfectly. I think he'd give us some sort of thumbs up. But lots of lessons here if you want to be creative. But here's the key secret if you're an athlete, if you're a business person, or if you are on any big adventure, and if it's really meaningful work, there are going to be moments where you question whether you should keep going.

00:03:45:09 - 00:04:07:06
Unknown
This show is for you. So listeners, viewers and members, I hand it over to Mark. Let's let loose this thinking from Austin Kleon. Where do you want to start? I'm going to start Mike with a clip that's going to, I think, illustrate and further support exactly the sentiment that you just shared. When the times get a little bit tough, where do we lean into.

00:04:07:07 - 00:04:30:02
Unknown
So let's hear from Austin Kleon. Introduce us a little bit about, where and why he wrote the book. We've got him joined by Debbie Milne. He's going to help us understand that. To be honest, it might not get any easier, but that's okay. A few years ago, I'd wake up every morning, check the headlights on my phone, and feel as if the world had gotten dumber and meaner overnight.

00:04:30:04 - 00:04:56:08
Unknown
Meanwhile, I'd be writing. I'd been writing and making art for more than a decade, and it didn't seem to be getting any easier. Isn't it supposed to get easier? Everything got better for me when I made peace with the fact that it might not ever get easier. The world is crazy. Creative work is hard. Life is short and art is long.

00:04:56:10 - 00:05:03:24
Unknown
How's that for an opening paragraph?

00:05:04:00 - 00:05:52:22
Unknown
It's a really good book. Tell us how this book might have become a remedy for you in this experience of writing it. Yeah, I mean, I just needed like, a guide. I just felt unmoored. And let's be honest, it's the election of 2000. 2016 was a rotten year, and it really felt like we lost something. I mean, we just the tone of the country shifted so horribly and everyone I know was just distraught, you know, and, and, you know, I just, you know, particularly in my house, it was like a bomb went off, you know, and we just, I just it's a combination of having really young kids and the climate of the country.

00:05:53:01 - 00:06:11:14
Unknown
And it had been like 3 or 4 years since I had written a book. And I was just like, how do I just keep doing this? And I really had to kind of dig, and I needed a manual for myself because it's interesting, because all my other books were written for someone else. Newspaper blackout, like an editor asked me, do you want to do a book?

00:06:11:14 - 00:06:33:06
Unknown
I said, yes, steel, like an artist was like, would you like to talk to these kids? And I was like, yes. Show. Your work was like, all these people keep asking me the same questions. I feel like I should answer them in a book and they'll never have to answer the questions again. Which is really stupid, because if you write a book, people are going to ask you about that book forever until you die.

00:06:33:06 - 00:07:04:02
Unknown
If you're lucky. So writing a book to answer questions is not a great thing. But keep going, you know? Keep going was the first book where I was like, I need this. I need this to exist. Like, I need this to keep me on the path. And, you know, I think he sets up the book so well there, Mark, and that is that we saw it crazily enough, when we did the recent new book from David Goggins.

00:07:04:04 - 00:07:43:06
Unknown
He, he, he spoke never finished thematically is very similar to keep going. Right. Because the premise is in both of these, author's books is that you have to have to embrace the idea that you need to continue. You must search out adversity in order to be growing. Because what you heard from Austin then, when he hadn't written for four years, it's like Goggins hasn't hasn't run a hundred miler for a couple of years, and he's feeling a bit wiggy, a bit out of it, a bit like something's not right.

00:07:43:06 - 00:08:09:10
Unknown
And that's called flatlining. Maybe going even in reverse and losing momentum. So what often stops us from going forward is the oh, that's going to be so hard. But if you can train yourself to say, oh, it is going to be hot, then it's probably really meaningful. If it's complex, that means it's going to be very novel because nobody else has solved that problem.

00:08:09:12 - 00:08:35:18
Unknown
Goody for me. Let's go. Like that's a training. That's sort of like a mindset orientation. And Carol Dweck authored that. It's a growth mindset, which is the search to continually acquire knowledge to challenge is fine. It's just part of the journey. But I actually think because adversity treats so many of us up, that we actually need to come to the first principle of accepting life will be hard.

00:08:35:18 - 00:08:57:24
Unknown
And that's okay. Stop dreaming of the desert island. Stop dreaming of winning the lottery and get on with the work you meant to do. Oh, I mean, it's that's a hard truth, isn't it? And you're right. Much like Goggins, his book never finished where he helps. And he breaks down very similar story to what we just had from Austin, who's had a break as well.

00:08:58:00 - 00:09:25:20
Unknown
And it's reminded me, Mike, of that great analogy of, of, a plant, you know, a tree, a plant doesn't grow without, you know, adversity first of all. But more importantly, if it isn't growing, it is, as you say, flatline. Yes. It's just static. And it's static if you're static, if we're all static, whether that's both physically, but also, you know, from an education or stimulation perspective, you kind of you kind of flatline.

00:09:25:20 - 00:09:52:08
Unknown
You kind of just take it easy. And I think what I'm hearing from Austin in that clip is when he really considered, right, what is it that I'm doing? How is it that I'm going to be focused? How is it that I'm going to go out and maybe create another piece of work? He needed that manual, as he calls it, the guide to getting back on track and maintaining a momentum around being able to keep on going because he didn't really exist.

00:09:52:08 - 00:10:24:00
Unknown
And also, I don't know whether he necessarily had that motivation. Right. And what I find quite interesting about this book, as well as all the books that we've done with Austin in this series, is he helps us understand finding and maintaining that motivation to go out and create your work not only because of a permission perspective, but also because when those bad times do hit, you can still find the positive and the good times within those because it is, as we know, just part of the journey.

00:10:24:00 - 00:10:52:03
Unknown
It isn't always about the end destination, is it? Yeah. And so if our listeners and viewers and members are like, okay, here I mark an MC. So life is hard. Okay. What if some of the activities you think people can do, what would you prescribe for yourself? If you're like wishing for an easier life, what do you prescribe, doctor Mark?

00:10:52:05 - 00:11:20:10
Unknown
what do you prescribe? What should we do to get ourselves out of that? That futile thinking? Yeah. That cycle of of trying to whenever I've found myself in that cycle of, this seems a little bit hard, I'm not really sure whether I'm particularly motivated. If I start to notice that my mind is going down a repetitive cycle of thoughts and repetitive.

00:11:20:10 - 00:11:43:13
Unknown
What I mean by that is daily references. You know, I think when the good times are good, you do not obsess and repeatedly think, how might I get out of this? That's right. I'm really not happy about X, Y, or Z. Instead, you're focused, you're stimulated, you're having fun, you're being creative. Maybe you're even finding inspiration to go out for a run or exercise or whatever it might be.

00:11:43:15 - 00:12:02:04
Unknown
Instead, when I've been in moments in my life where I'm not that motivated and maybe I'm finding something a little bit challenging, my mind will repeatedly go over and it's kind of, as we've referenced on the show before, like a coffee percolator. You know, the more the coffee beans sit in that hot water, the more bitter it gets.

00:12:02:06 - 00:12:21:14
Unknown
And if I notice that I'm continually thinking like that, that's when I need to write. Write it down. That's what I need to talk about it with. Someone will share it, and then I might be able to understand whether or not it's something that I need to take action on. More often than not, it's not really about the work, it's not really about the project or people.

00:12:21:19 - 00:12:51:25
Unknown
Instead, it's it's something else, isn't it? You know, it's maybe your life's, goal is not being fulfilled. For example, what about you might well be, Doctor Mike's, advice on this topic. Well, I think what comes to mind is the activity and our, our listeners and viewers and members will be familiar with this. This is something I do a lot, which is okay.

00:12:52:01 - 00:13:15:08
Unknown
Einstein slow to start speaking. Disney was fired for not being creative before he created The Walt Disney Company. And you know, the classic Steve Jobs got fired. Oprah Winfrey, some of the Beatles were said told. Not much will come. No, no, not much will come. Of him was Einstein. And I think the Beatles were told that they have no career in the music industry.

00:13:15:10 - 00:14:01:02
Unknown
Amazing how funny. Okay, they all experienced hardship yet went on to do great things. So to me, reminding myself that when you look at successful people and their story, you will always find the hero's journey when they have to transform themselves in order to successfully exit the Valley of Darkness. The challenge the abyss, right? And I find that really important also to remind myself that, you know, great people experience the same situations and emotions as we do.

00:14:01:08 - 00:14:24:06
Unknown
They just choose to react differently. And then if I can get to that, then I'm like, well, how might I choose to respond? How might I choose to say, okay, great, what can I make of this? Right. Because the crazy thing is, after you've experienced a great hardship, it's not that hard to go. Oh, actually, that was really good because that led to a new chapter or a new thing.

00:14:24:08 - 00:14:42:18
Unknown
And so in a way, I'm kind of grateful. And I really wouldn't want in another way, because maybe I wouldn't be where I am now if I hadn't have had that hardship. We can say this a lot about career situations, relationship situations, all sorts of things. So these are the sorts of things I go to to remind myself of.

00:14:42:20 - 00:15:07:24
Unknown
And there's a really good technique that, Goggins has, which is called a cookie jar, which is you write down your great successes often, which are a different way of saying overcoming huge hardship. And I wrote down and I review and go back to that cookie jar on a regular basis, maybe once a month, maybe, maybe once a quarter or when I'm feeling it.

00:15:08:00 - 00:15:32:23
Unknown
right. And then you go day. Like, honestly, without being an idiot, I look at mine and go far out. I've done a few things in life, you know, that's pretty cool. And there's power in just reminding yourself. Well, I, you know, I've lived in Amsterdam, I've lived in London, in San Francisco, now I'm in Sydney. Those were really wonderful, but that were really hard to do as well, especially when you've got a family.

00:15:33:00 - 00:15:56:10
Unknown
So you're like, oh, okay, well, if I can do that and the current problem solving is nothing, right? Yeah, you're totally right. And I remember the penny drop moment and one of the most important lessons I think I've learned with you and our listeners and subscribers on the show is the fact that you can choose your reactions, to choose your emotions totally and control them.

00:15:56:10 - 00:16:26:00
Unknown
And you write little, little techniques like the cookie jar, I love that, yeah. oh, I've got another technique. You know what? I think if you go to Moonshot Studio. There's like a members button, there is an mark. Yeah. You know what Mike I think there actually is. And you know what I'm really pleased to say. There's also been a few other individuals out there who have found that button for so that means Mike is it is definitely there.

00:16:26:02 - 00:16:46:15
Unknown
And you know what we like to do. We like to call out those individuals, those extra special people that have gone to moonshots. But I who have clicked on that member button and have become unique individuals who are supporting the moonshot show every single week and like, you know what? They also get they get a very special trumpet.

00:16:46:15 - 00:17:14:03
Unknown
So without further ado, please welcome in Bob, Ken, DeMar, Margie and Connor Rodriguez, Liza and Sid, Mr.. Bonjour, Paul, Berg and Kalman, Joe, Christian, Samuel and Barbara, Chris, Deborah, Lassie, Steve. Craig, Ravi Ebert and Nicole. Ingram, Dirk. Venkatesh, Marco. Jet. Roger. Steph. Raw. Nimble and Diana. Christophe, Denice, Laura and Smitty who you guys are all over an annual membership.

00:17:14:03 - 00:17:39:24
Unknown
Guys, thank you so much for your long term commitment. We really appreciate it. Hot on those heels and next to become our annual members include Corey. Daniela, Mike, Dan, Antonio, Zachary, Austin, Fred, Jez, Ola, Andy, Diana, Margie, Chris, Ron and our brand new member who has navigated to Moonshot Studio is Fabian. Thank you Fabian, as well as all of our members for your support for the Moonshot show.

00:17:40:00 - 00:18:06:23
Unknown
Wow, wow. And I bet you one thing, Mark, is that each and every one of those people that we're so grateful for their support, I bet you that they each are working on a healthy, creative goal. Oh, you know what, Mike? I guarantee that that is the case because they've all, taken their time as well as that.

00:18:06:25 - 00:18:27:09
Unknown
drive to come and support the moonshot show. And that's good, because you and I are also in that similar mindset. But you know who else Mike is in that creator Kevin. Yea, Kevin is a great YouTuber. He's going to break down for us in this next clip, a little bit more details around how we can actualize it and put into operation some of the tips from Austin Children's book.

00:18:27:09 - 00:18:47:01
Unknown
Keep going. So let's hear from Kevin. Now break down and help us understand the value of having healthy, creative goals. This is me at 25 years old when I was a pharmacist at the time, I didn't really consider myself creatives. All I wanted was this internet YouTube thing to work out so I could replace my six figure from Sally.

00:18:47:01 - 00:19:08:01
Unknown
But the one obstacle I always face was consistency. Whether it was shooting a YouTube video or writing article, I'd go through periods where I'd go ham burnout, stop for a while, guilt myself into not feeling good enough, and then repeat the cycle all over again. Which led me to this one question what is the core reason behind burnout?

00:19:08:03 - 00:19:29:08
Unknown
And the answer? It's the type of goals that we set. If we want to avoid overwhelm or burnout, then we have to use our creativity to pursue the right course according to keep going. There are two types of goals one. There's result based goals which are unhealthy, and then there's process based goals, which are the healthy goals. What are the differences between the two?

00:19:29:10 - 00:19:52:04
Unknown
Well, let's break this down. Result based goals. Result based goals. Focus on the end product like revenue, subscribers or views on YouTube. Some people will call them vanity metrics. This obsession with the end product pushes us to consistently churn out more work to achieve more results, which leads to burnout and shifts us further away from enjoying the actual creative process.

00:19:52:06 - 00:20:15:06
Unknown
So let's talk about the two things. We tend to obsess when it comes to result based goals. The first thing money. Focusing too much on monetizing our work can actually lead to burnout. Sometimes turning a hobby or passion into an income source can turn something that was once a creative escape from everyday life into an obligation that adds stress and pressure into our lives.

00:20:15:11 - 00:20:34:21
Unknown
Now, does this mean that we can't make a living doing the work that we love? Of course not. But if we want to keep the creative juices flowing and avoid burnout altogether, we need to shift our focus away from obsessing over money as the goal. Instead, we can identify how much we need to sustain our minimum happy lifestyle and live within those means.

00:20:34:25 - 00:21:01:14
Unknown
This might mean keeping a tighter budget or really getting a day job along with our creative work. Now let's cover the second thing approval. Doing creative work for the clout. This is dangerous when we chase and energy metrics like life or shares on social media, we can start feeling upset or feeling not good enough. But if we can start caring less about approval, we can start creating work that we actually care about, which makes it easier and decreases the friction of the creative process.

00:21:01:14 - 00:21:21:23
Unknown
So if result based goals are the source of burnout, then what is the solution? Well, we need to focus on process in schools. Let me explain. This is Ali Abdul back when I took his part time YouTuber Academy, something he said all the time was really try your best to enjoy the journey and not focus so much on the destination.

00:21:21:23 - 00:21:42:09
Unknown
Rather than obsessing over the end goal process based goals. Instead, focus on enjoying the process of creating in the work itself, and in turn, it eliminates the pressure of results based goals. But there is another benefit to process based goals the actor. They are. Flow state, also known as our peak performance. So how do we get in this peak performance state?

00:21:42:10 - 00:22:21:02
Unknown
Keep going suggests two different ways. Method number one creating for yourself. This is an article I wrote about repairing my relationship with my father, and this is a video I created for myself to capture how it's feeling after losing dad just six months later. Days after I posted about my experience losing my father, I was getting messages about how it inspired other people to repair their relationships with their fathers, their parents, which motivated me to create more meaningful content that I actually cared about by making creative work that we enjoy or is just for us, helps us enjoy the process of creation without having to worry or deal with the friction of what anyone else

00:22:21:02 - 00:23:03:02
Unknown
thinks. It doesn't matter if we publish it, story, or even burn it and destroy it. What matters is that we actually took the time and practice creativity and took joy in that practice. Well, I mean, there is like probably three master series in my. Yeah, there's a lot. Holy smoke. look, I'm gonna ask you, like he touched upon some big themes there and loving the process as opposed to just being obsessed with the outcome, creating that habit, entering in that flow state, creating for yourself of those topics.

00:23:03:02 - 00:23:28:06
Unknown
Which one grabbed your attention the most? Which one immediately makes you all sit up and take note? Look, I love Flow State. I love the episode that we've done on Mihai, GZ Mihai. I believe that there is this thing called flow and that you can get into it with the right situation. But Mike, for me, the thing that stands out with that little breakdown is this idea of enjoying the journey.

00:23:28:08 - 00:23:46:22
Unknown
I think there's so much there's been so many moments in my life where I've probably been chasing that end destination. Maybe it's promotion, maybe it's money holiday, whatever it might be. Or maybe it's just the end of a project. You know, you think, this is a bit hard because it's making me a bit uncomfortable. When will this end?

00:23:46:24 - 00:24:15:02
Unknown
And the problem with thinking like that is you don't end up enjoying any of it. You know, the times in my life I'll be looking at the clock and counting down, you know, my time. And as I've got older, as I've, you know, delved more into the business secrets of the entrepreneurs and the pharaohs, as you and I, do every single week with our members and listeners is to really savor the journey, savor those great, good times, but also enjoy the challenges.

00:24:15:04 - 00:24:37:20
Unknown
Because as I remember reading Once Upon a Time without the bitter, the sweet and so sweet. Yeah. So if you can enjoy the the journey that you go on and, you know, you look out the window, you can see maybe it's the English countryside roaring past. Maybe it's the Australian coastline, or maybe it's something that's a little bit uncomfortable, a little bit challenging, whatever that might be.

00:24:37:20 - 00:24:56:23
Unknown
When you do that, when you have that mindset and you can enjoy that journey from start to finish, boy, not only is it more fun, but you feel like you're getting more out of your life and more out of the time that you're dedicating to whatever that project is. Yeah, exactly. Pitch. Mike, are you with me there?

00:24:56:24 - 00:25:21:23
Unknown
Are you with me on the journey? Okay, so I'll tell you how I process that, like, set, like these really important objectives. And then I almost put them away because I know if I do this every day or every week, I'll get there. So I like having a goal and an objective and but I think the emphasis is what does that look like as a daily or weekly habit.

00:25:21:25 - 00:25:49:19
Unknown
And then almost I just have figured out if I do three posts a week, that's what I've said is my writing target. So I know that I've set one episode of The Moonshots podcast a week. That's my target. Then I can just relax and enjoy them. And so this is like, I think one of my big productivity secrets is to take goals and make them into daily or weekly habits that are in my to do list app.

00:25:49:19 - 00:26:18:11
Unknown
They recur for me like I am blown away by the amount of times simple little things in my diary. For example, check the bank account Monday through Friday. Yeah, I have a to do list that says check the bank account and the amount of times I go, oh, what a good idea and mark that as being in my to do this funny for five years have funny recurring and it still surprises me.

00:26:18:13 - 00:26:55:10
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, that's just part of me being financially disciplined, right? Just like I have another one is, to go for a walk each day and I'm like, I get to like 730 and I'm like, oh, I should quickly do a walk before dinner because I forgot to have a walk today. maybe I ran in the morning and then I've walked all through the day and then I'm like, and again, the transition of big objectives into daily tasks means that you can enjoy those because you're not like, I find that the stress comes from like, oh, where is this going?

00:26:55:10 - 00:27:15:07
Unknown
What's the roadmap? Am I on track or not? If you're if you haven't broken down a big annual objective into like a daily or weekly task, then I think you end up spinning like, am I on track? I'm not sure because I haven't really worked out. Am I doing enough or am I doing too little or like. And I think that's where daily weekly habits make it all happen, Mark.

00:27:15:07 - 00:27:48:19
Unknown
I mean, to me that's I love that idea of breaking down an annual event, let's say. Or maybe it's not even a goal, such as the end of a project or making money or whatever it might be. For me, something like a growth mindset is of fostering a growth mindset and trying to maintain it is something that I'll I'll try and do, you know, annually in daily life and what I have in my to do list, funnily enough, is not only every single day do something you love, but I've also got every single day do something that scares you.

00:27:48:23 - 00:28:06:16
Unknown
Ooh, and what I like about that is it could be anything. It could be. Maybe it's going for, a run that I'm not really in the mood for. Or it could be. Oh, I got to go and have an awkward conversation with someone, or a conversation that I would normally want to try and back out of.

00:28:06:19 - 00:28:25:04
Unknown
like trying to remind myself and encourage myself, hey, you know, it's good to do something that kind of scares you a little bit. Yeah. The benefit for me is, okay, I'm going to challenge myself. I'm going to get that a little bit uncomfortable. And like Jocko would say, good, that's for me. I think where Austin is trying to help us go with keep going.

00:28:25:06 - 00:28:46:02
Unknown
Yeah. You know, embrace that, that process, embrace the journey that takes you from where you are now into something like, a creative mindset or a growth mindset or whatever it is that that ultimate goal or process goal is that you're trying to to go out and do. And I think undoubtedly the our book of recommendation here is Atomic Habits.

00:28:46:04 - 00:29:09:01
Unknown
And, tell me, is there a certain podcast and a certain website where someone might go for the back catalog on things just like Atomic Habits? Well, fortunately, I know for a fact we could even go and ask all of our individuals who have become members of a certain podcast called Moonshots Pop Along to moonshots.io, where you can find our massive library.

00:29:09:01 - 00:29:41:03
Unknown
At this point, 259 shows full of useful entrepreneur and business secrets, such as Atomic Habits by James Clear. We've got transcripts. We've got, let's call them learning notes, cheat sheets. We've got a plethora of information out there for all of our members, but also all of our listeners. So please, if you want to continue getting inspired and you want to learn a little bit more about any of these books and authors that we're talking about on the show, pop along to Moonshot Studio, and you can find all of our back catalog.

00:29:41:05 - 00:30:03:19
Unknown
Now, one of the things that we mentioned in that previous clip, with this idea of getting in the flow and easily the hottest name of any author we've ever had to pronounce, Mihai sent me hy the author of Florida and, man, what what an idea, what a book. Why, I didn't discover this 30 years earlier than I did.

00:30:03:23 - 00:30:28:20
Unknown
Who knows? But I know it now. And, Marc, I think we got some thinking on that one. Yes, we both, I think, adore this concept of of flow getting into it. And particularly one of the benefits as we, have found out, is being able to stay in the moment. So let's hear again from Kevin Yee, who's going to provide us yet another insight from Keep Going, this time focusing on something that we know all of our members adore.

00:30:28:25 - 00:30:56:22
Unknown
And that's about getting into habits and routines. So now that we know that we're doing creative goals for the right reasons, how do we focus on the creative process itself? Principle number two staying in the moment. This is Casey Neistat when he announces break, I just like I need a break. I think today is my 534th day in a row where I've uploaded a video and I've uploaded like 550 videos or something like that in those 530 something days, like, that's crazy.

00:30:57:02 - 00:31:11:25
Unknown
So I want to take this week off. I want to take this week no vlogging. I hope you don't forget about me. Sometimes we can get so lost with content creation that we forget to stay present and remember that every day is like a fresh new reset, and it's a great reminder to just take one day at a time.

00:31:11:25 - 00:31:31:06
Unknown
Staying in the moment ensures a healthy and productive creative process. But what does that actually mean? It means not thinking too much about the past or worrying about the future. Focusing on new ideas and putting those ideas into our work. Keep going has three methods for relieving our creative constipation. Let's get into it. Method number one establish a daily routine.

00:31:31:06 - 00:31:50:01
Unknown
Remember how I said every day is Groundhog Day? This is a book. Daily rituals. It breaks down the daily routines of over 150 artists. In the book, everyone from the Vinci to Einstein and something that they all had in common is that they all have their daily routines. Daily routines help prevent feeling overwhelmed, of thinking too far ahead.

00:31:50:01 - 00:32:10:22
Unknown
And the regret of shut up could have what of just like how I used to obsess over my past relationships forever alone. Daily routines do three things one. They provide order and structure to the day. The second thing is they help build focus. Third thing, to help better manage our time and energy. Plus, there's the added benefit of not having to worry about what should I be doing right now?

00:32:10:22 - 00:32:28:23
Unknown
And just because your favorite productivity guru wakes up at 5 a.m. to do cold showers doesn't mean that you have to do the same thing too. It starts with noticing when the day we have the highest amount of energy and dedicating that time towards creative work, but staying in the moment isn't just about what you do on a given day, it's also about where you do it.

00:32:28:23 - 00:32:49:25
Unknown
Method number two build the bliss stage. Chances are your favorite creator on YouTube. Hopefully his name is Kevin. Chances are your favorite creators have a specific place for the creative work. It needs to block out external distractions while stimulating creativity first, our creative space should allow you to work undistracted so that you can actually focus on stimulating our internal creative thoughts.

00:32:49:25 - 00:33:08:07
Unknown
The last thing you want to worry about is external stimulation. Imagine going to your favorite music festival and trying to write a book there. Yeah, probably not going to happen. The second quality of your bliss station should be creative messiness. There's a beautiful art to messiness. If it's too messy, you won't be able to find what you need to do work.

00:33:08:09 - 00:33:29:04
Unknown
But if it's too organized, you can't find the creative inspiration from various unrelated things in the messy place. That's why when things get too messy and you tidy up, looking through old forgotten things can actually inspire new ideas. Method three slowing down. Over 500 hours of video are uploaded onto YouTube alone every single day. And that's on just one single platform.

00:33:29:07 - 00:33:58:17
Unknown
Throw in newsletters, TikTok, Instagram and traditional books and this information to be overwhelming. But how do we slow down? Well, there's two methods. Method one exploring the mundane. Sometimes it might mean sketching out the objects around us. Other times it might mean going for a walk outside and paying attention to what we see or experience. And this is the concept of the artist state that is popularized in Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way, which helps us take the time to draw inspiration from the things that we probably just ignore.

00:33:58:17 - 00:34:37:20
Unknown
Every single day. It means spending time with ourselves when we're not stressed or busy, to just get the creative juices. So the thing I marvel at, he's Kevin's ability to tie together some of our favorite books. He's run out of talent. It's great, but I think, okay, what is he really saying? And what can we take out as a headline here that in the creative routine, in the creative ritual, in the creative daily process, in that structure and rhythm is the true freedom.

00:34:37:22 - 00:35:02:10
Unknown
If you don't have routine process and system ization, you're leaving it to chance. So I know that when it's in the first half of the day, with the right coffee, with the right music, Do Not Disturb goes on and I am telling my body I have trained it. It's time for deep work and we're going deep, Mike. So get ready and rock and roll.

00:35:02:12 - 00:35:25:02
Unknown
And I can tell you that if I was just hoping those moments turn up in my diary at some point during the week before I know it, there's too many calls and this and that and travel and whatever, and it wouldn't happen at all. So unless you make a deliberate structure, you will enjoy no freedom because circumstance will jump in and intercept you all the time.

00:35:25:04 - 00:35:49:15
Unknown
Big time, big time. You have to protect that. Know those moments, don't you? If you want to try, as we were talking about a minute ago, establish those daily habits and rituals. It's up to you to actually make them happen. You know, you can't delegate that to one of your colleagues or your partner, can you? It's got to be something that you protect and it can take a lot of time, takes a little bit of courage and discipline.

00:35:49:18 - 00:36:12:03
Unknown
Yes. Doesn't it, to really maintain that, ability to stick to those habits, but also time blocked, perhaps those moments in your day in order to go out and check the bank account and so on. So I think the trouble that we all have with this idea is it feels like a bit like OCD or over managing things is, doesn't it?

00:36:12:03 - 00:36:38:12
Unknown
I think that's our first reaction. How can we how can we like, manage creativity, like the Swiss train schedule? That can't be right, girl. Leave it, let it, let it be right. That's not true, is it? No, it's not, it's not. It doesn't need to be as romantic as that. You know, I think you're right. There's probably an assumption that I had when I was growing up, which is the individuals such as we've heard in, in a couple of these clips now, like Einstein.

00:36:38:14 - 00:37:02:15
Unknown
Oh, it's it's a God given thing, you know, they were born with it. They knew exactly about science, the world when they were born. But that's not the case, as we know from the studies that we've done into all of these individuals, it takes the discipline to sit down and keep on going when the going gets tough. And for me, my like when the going gets tough, as we've talked about a little bit, it's putting in that structure.

00:37:02:17 - 00:37:34:05
Unknown
You've got to go in and manage the time and maintain not only the discipline but also the, insight that it is easy to get distracted. So, like we know from Newport, digital distractions, is so inherent in a lot of the work that all of us do now, whether it's laptops, phones, watches and so on. So having that discipline to put on the do not disturb mode to take off the watch or whatever it is that helps you get into that mode is going to help.

00:37:34:05 - 00:38:13:14
Unknown
Isn't it going to help you stay present when you go out and need to go out and create the work? Yeah, it it honestly, the one thing I can tell you I know about my day is the best thinking will happen in the first half of the day. The best execution and communication and project management coordination happens in the second half of the day, and even just understanding that that's my routine and rhythm and planning as best as I can do that helps me enjoy my work, do great work and to be a better partner and colleague and advisor to to people.

00:38:13:14 - 00:38:47:04
Unknown
So it's a huge, huge part of how I operate and how staying in that moment is equally about creating and saying, it's crazy. I think I've mentioned this to you recently. I have reading time on Friday afternoons, which I allocate as a fixed recurring meeting. Yeah, in my calendar it's a meeting, which is me and my bookshelf. Yeah, but it's funny, isn't it, how the that insight and that behavior, you know, if if I'd asked you that, you know, maybe ten years ago, maybe longer, you would have thought, what are you talking about?

00:38:47:05 - 00:39:10:15
Unknown
I didn't need to schedule in reading. But the thing is, it just comes down to, maintaining the balance that keeps you inspired. You know, much like we heard in that last clip, you need time and space to get inspired. It isn't. It isn't a switch. It isn't something that you turn on like a light. Instead, you need to have the time and space to be inspired.

00:39:10:15 - 00:39:35:16
Unknown
Like Julie Cameron says with artist dates to find the time just to sit down, rest, recuperate and allow your brain to maybe skim over things. Maybe it is right, like you've caught out in the past. Like your books on architecture, design, and data analysis and so on are visualization tools that then help you maybe think about the bigger picture and a project in a different light.

00:39:35:18 - 00:39:53:03
Unknown
And that really is ultimately what we're trying to do. We're not trying to have a cookie cutter approach to all of the work and the projects that we do. Instead, it's trying to find the unique elements of each piece, and the only way you can do that is by finding the secret your key, your individual key to actually staying inspired.

00:39:53:07 - 00:40:18:03
Unknown
And actually, as we know from Austin, to keep on going. Yes, it's absolutely true. And, I know everyone is kind of madly figuring out what does their creative routine look like. How do they do this? Well, that one might call is reflection. And we have one last thought on that, big time. This is a topic that we know all of our members and subscribers adore, as do we here on the moonshots family.

00:40:18:03 - 00:40:48:12
Unknown
So let's now, unfortunately, might bring the show to a close this time with Austin helping us understand the value of boredom and how we need to prioritize reflection. But I understand that you believe that boredom is making a comeback. Talk a little bit about that. Why and how I think there's going to be boredom ranches, basically, just like I think there's going to be a ranch where you go and they take your phone and you're like, what are the activities today?

00:40:48:12 - 00:41:12:16
Unknown
And they're like, there are no welcome to the ranch. Sounds like rehab. Yeah, yeah. Actually, and Helen Peterson just wrote this piece about driving around this kind of third world country and and having to take busses. And how do you know there's no Wi-Fi signal? So she just had to listen to music on these van rides and I.

00:41:12:18 - 00:41:34:15
Unknown
And just how wonderful it was just to be bored and stare out the window and just listen to music, just to trim the noise of the world is just. That's the bliss station element. To have a place that you go and there's nothing to do but be with yourself. I think that's going to be. If I could invest, maybe I should buy a ranch outside of the Boredom Ranch.

00:41:34:17 - 00:42:00:19
Unknown
Sign up. It's a good day that you're are available. Someone's going to steal it. you you quote some masters in, Keep going. And I just wanted to share one. Before we go to the audience questions, you quote Linda Berry, who writes, the phone gives us a lot, but it takes away three key elements of discovery loneliness, uncertainty, and boredom.

00:42:00:21 - 00:42:27:17
Unknown
Those have always been where creative ideas come from. I read that and I thought, okay, to be lonely is to be human. And that's a good thing and a great thing to end on. Yes. How fun is this? Like, go out, get bored, everyone. It'll go well. It's so opposite, isn't it? What I think a lot of us lean into when we think about being productive.

00:42:27:17 - 00:43:05:12
Unknown
Yeah, it isn't necessarily to be bored. What a great permission to to prioritize that. That's self-care. Yeah. Do you have have you ever had this feeling, Mark, when you've scrolling your podcasts or you're looking at your reading list and there's just nothing that's appealing. Big time. Yeah I think a lot of us have this and still press play or still start reading rather than and I think what when we, you know, when we're scrolling in, there's nothing I think that our entire being saying I just need to process I just need to chill.

00:43:05:12 - 00:43:31:11
Unknown
I just need to be bored for a bit. Yeah. And let the monkey mind ease out a bit. Process. Let the subconscious do its work and I think I've just noticed how much more I'm taking those moments. And the great thing is, when I do choose to read or listen to something, I am totally there with bells on because I've perhaps made it a little bit more scarce, had a little bit more quiet time.

00:43:31:13 - 00:43:52:22
Unknown
Yeah. Do you experience that too? Oh, big time, big time. There's there's moments in my day where I'll utilize, you know, music on Spotify, YouTube, whatever it might be to get myself inspired. Maybe that means inspired to go for a run, inspired to relax or inspired just to have, you know, a smile on my face. But you're right.

00:43:52:22 - 00:44:18:13
Unknown
Whether it's podcast, whether it's videos, whether it's music, when they're, sitting around or going for a run, when I'm scrolling and I can't find something I don't want to settle, that normally indicates, it's time to turn it off. It's time to put the headphones away. And actually, those moments when I, when I do have, and when I tend to walk, I don't tend to listen to music because I want that that peaceful time.

00:44:18:15 - 00:44:40:00
Unknown
I want maybe a little bit of time too, as we know from Julia camera get inspired by nature. Yeah, maybe. As we know from Austin, it's time to get bored and just prioritize that moment of reflection. Similar when I'm, you know, writing in my journal. I'll have that, you know, in silence. I won't necessarily have music. I'm sure people do utilize music as well.

00:44:40:02 - 00:45:01:22
Unknown
But for me, I like the quiet time because there's so much going on around us all the time that is visually as well as audibly stimulating. Sometimes it's just nice to have a little bit of caveman quiet, I guess you could call it. Yeah, I totally agree. So, Michael, we've we've covered a lot of hot topics.

00:45:01:24 - 00:45:28:17
Unknown
Acceptance, healthy goals, rituals, being in the moment, reflecting these are all the ways to sustain our efforts. Which one which one struck a chord with you? I think the thing that I want to lean into more and explore is that that closing thought, that idea of boredom. You know, I love the concept of the journey and enjoying that, looking out the window and so on.

00:45:28:21 - 00:45:47:02
Unknown
But obviously you need a go to, to get a you don't just get in the car. What I like about the boredom piece is something that you can put into practice when you are considering how to go out and be productive, but also maintain a little bit of, self balance when it comes to that monkey mind trauma and everything.

00:45:47:03 - 00:46:10:21
Unknown
Yeah. What about you, Mike from Austin today? What's the work that you're going to be taken away? You know, I have a hard time choosing because I find myself actually confronting all of these. So maybe I just have to read not only keep going, but all of Austin's books again and do my homework. Maybe it's like almost one of those annual book series, you know, you come back to.

00:46:10:21 - 00:46:34:06
Unknown
Right? I think it totally could be. Can it? Yeah. Well, Mark, I want to say thank you to you for show 259 and thank you to you, our listeners, our viewers and our members, where we studied the work of Austin Kleon and his book, Keep Going. Some very good advice just in the title, but if that's not enough, he's got four ideas that we covered today.

00:46:34:08 - 00:46:58:10
Unknown
First of all, creative pursuits and life itself. It ain't going to get easier to get ready for the hard ride because it's in the hard ride that you're doing the right thing, and you can survive that with having happy, healthy, creative goals, staying in the moment and crucially, taking a pause to reflect. Maybe even get a little bored and you will find your creative juices flowing.

00:46:58:10 - 00:47:07:10
Unknown
You'll find that you are truly being the best version of yourself, and that's what we're all about here on the Moonshots podcast. That's a wrap.