Empowerment through Curiosity: Exploring 'The Coaching Habit' with Michael Bungay-Stanier

EPISODE 232

In this enlightening episode of the Moonshots Podcast, join us as we explore the transformative insights of Michael Bungay-Stanier's seminal work, "The Coaching Habit."This episode offers a deep dive into leadership and personal development that inspires and empowers you.

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Watch this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/05jZHCyaLOI
**INTRO: Laying the Foundation**
Buckle up for a captivating journey of self-discovery as Michael Bungay-Stanier lays the foundation with his three fundamental coaching questions. In just four minutes, prepare to embark on an episode filled with paradigm-shifting concepts that can reshape your approach to coaching, leadership, and beyond.

**Segment: The Advice-Giving Monster**
Unveil the "advice-giving monster" within as Michael poses a thought-provoking question that challenges our communication norms. In under a minute, you'll be prompted to reconsider your coaching methods and gain fresh insights into effective communication.

**ACTION: The Productivity Game**
The Productivity Game takes center stage, dissecting the essence of "The Coaching Habit" through four key questions. Over three minutes and forty-six seconds, immerse yourself in a dynamic discussion that unveils how these questions can revolutionize your personal and professional growth, enhancing productivity and effectiveness.

**Segment: AWE - A Conversation with Marshall Goldsmith**
Engage in an awe-inspiring conversation between Michael Bungay-Stanier and renowned leadership coach Marshall Goldsmith. Delve into MBS's favorite question, unpacking its significance and impact in a two-minute and twenty-five-second exchange that promises to leave you enlightened and motivated.

**THM: The Coaching Habit Takeaways**
As the episode concludes, we distill the key takeaways from "The Coaching Habit." From taming the advice monster to the power of curiosity, you'll receive a concise overview of the book's transformative principles and how they can reshape your coaching journey.

Tune in to the Moonshots Podcast and join us as we unlock the transformative insights of "The Coaching Habit" by Michael Bungay-Stanier. Prepare to be challenged, motivated, and equipped with actionable strategies to elevate your coaching prowess and leadership skills.

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Watch this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/05jZHCyaLOI
🎧 Listen now to dive deep into the world of coaching and leadership, guided by the wisdom of Michael Bungay-Stanier and his book "The Coaching Habit." Your journey to impactful coaching starts here on the Moonshots Podcast.
Transcript

00:00:07:01 - 00:00:39:06
Unknown
Hello and welcome to the Moonshot podcast. It's episode. Wait for this 300 405 hundred Irish nights, 230 to find your co-host. And as always, I'm joined by Matt Freeland. Good morning, Mike. Hey, good morning, Mike. Good morning, listeners. Good morning, viewers. We're so excited to be coming at you with 232 shows. This time. Mike, we're really digging into a bit of a moonshot favorite.

00:00:39:08 - 00:01:08:24
Unknown
It's only an individual that we've covered once on the show so far. But here's the important thing, Mike. This episode today is kicking off a brand new series all about this author, an individual. Certainly is. And he's got a rather fancy name, I must say. He does have a rather fancy name today. Listeners and viewers, we are digging back into Michael Guy, senior author of many, many books that will cover partly in this series, the book that we've already covered.

00:01:09:00 - 00:01:34:00
Unknown
It was a do more good work. He's bestselling author of The Coaching Habits, which will be digging into today, which Mike since its 2016 release and this is going back a couple of years. So forgive me if my numbers aren't correct. It had sold already over half a million copies within just a short couple of years. So it's really the book that I think has captured a lot of attention.

00:01:34:02 - 00:02:07:05
Unknown
With regards to this broad idea of coaching, But I think the difference and the deals that you and I can bring to our listeners today is how coaching and how the habits and tips we've got from Michael in this book can be applied to all of our lives, wouldn't you say? Yeah, I totally agree. And I think one of the the myths that we should dispel is that the coaching and mentoring is only for the wise old gray headed folks or the CEO and the managers and the directors of a business.

00:02:07:07 - 00:02:38:06
Unknown
In fact, I would go as far as saying we have a chance to mentor and coach each and every one of our colleagues and peers when appropriate. I mean, what a great gift to have a mindset of how can I help this person improve, grow, be better, get more out of life. I mean, that's a gift. And Mike, I just want to double down and say, if that hasn't lit your fire, not only have we got the techniques you can use to coach, help and mentor others, you could even use some of these techniques on yourself.

00:02:38:08 - 00:02:59:17
Unknown
So it really doesn't matter where you are within an organization or a team if you're a living, breathing human. This book is for you. Wow. You know what? That's the type of synopsis, Mike, that I think hits home. You know, not only can I be a better leader or a colleague, but also I can be a better individual.

00:02:59:19 - 00:03:27:16
Unknown
I think Michael's got a lot to live up to here. He does. And I love the fact that it really is inspired by and covers a lot of things from the likes of Simon Sinek, say the book, The One Minute Manager, Kim Blanchard that we've covered, and many, many, many others. So if you're looking to better understand what's going on, how to be a good person to the people around you and to yourself, stay tuned because we're going to get into the work of Michael Bloom, guys.

00:03:27:17 - 00:03:51:10
Unknown
Dana, we are going to rock and roll with asking the right questions. That's right, Mike. So let's dive straight in here from Michael Bohn, Guy Stanier. He's on the Brand Master podcast. He's going to give us an overview of three fundamental questions that come up in his book, The Coaching Habits. Starting on the focused question, give us the premise of that.

00:03:51:12 - 00:04:15:10
Unknown
Yeah. So the focused question is, what's the real challenge here for you? Mm hmm. And the premise is, the first challenge that shows up is never the real challenge, and it's rarely the only challenge. We are wired to want to leap in to advice, giving in solution, providing and an so whipping out and all of that sort of stuff so that when somebody comes and goes, Ah, Steven, here's the thing I'm wrestling with.

00:04:15:10 - 00:04:45:22
Unknown
You're like, Oh, you know what? I know how to help fix that. I want to help you. So you kind of get tempted to go into it. But actually, you know, if you build a reputation worker in your life as the person who always figures out real problem, which has become immensely valuable to those around you, because in most organizations, big and small, people are working really hard on stuff that doesn't really matter because it's the stuff that presented itself first.

00:04:45:24 - 00:05:07:24
Unknown
So this ability just to stay curious a little bit longer, rush to action and advice, giving a little bit more slowly, which is kind of the definition I use around coaching the curious a little bit longer. You know, you say curious about what? The real challenges. It means that when you really figure out what the real challenges, the answers are going to be actually really helpful.

00:05:08:00 - 00:05:26:24
Unknown
Well, the strategic question says we're always at our best when making choices. And strategy is in fact, having the courage to make bold choices. So the strategic question says, if I'm going to say yes to this, what must I say no to? You can flip that around and I'm going to say no to this. What must I say yes to?

00:05:27:00 - 00:05:49:25
Unknown
But most commonly, it's I'm going to say yes to this one. What are the opportunity costs and what are the things that I have to set up barriers to and how do I actually commit to this? Because a yes, without an understanding of what the no's are and that that that's the implication of a yes and that it must come with those just means that if you don't do that, you're just piling more yeses on.

00:05:49:25 - 00:06:17:14
Unknown
And that doesn't work because everybody's at capacity. Tell us about the learning question. Yeah. So if you lead people, whether you have a big team or a small team, really one of your key jobs is to try and make your people smarter, because if they get smarter, they become more competent, more confident, more self-sufficient, more autonomous. And that is not only good for them, it's good for you and it's good for your organization.

00:06:17:16 - 00:06:38:23
Unknown
So it's really helpful if you can help people learn. But it turns out it's really hard to help people learn. And one of the annoying things is that advice rarely sticks. You know, advice typically goes in one ear and out the other. Yeah. Yeah. So when you sit down and go, Listen, Stephen, here are my pearls of wisdom.

00:06:38:25 - 00:06:57:17
Unknown
I got some gold. This is not going to remember much of that. Most of the time, young people don't even really learn when they're doing it. I mean, they do a little bit, but not so much. The power. The most powerful learning moment is when you actively create moment for the learning. So that's what this final question, this is number seven of the seven is about.

00:06:57:17 - 00:07:27:07
Unknown
And the question is what was most useful or most valuable here for you was most useful and most valuable here for you. Yeah. And you can basically ask that question at the end of any exchange. I mean, like Stephen can ask this at the end of every podcast, he goes, Okay, just been talking to this guest. If you had to name what was the most useful or most valuable here for you from this conversation, what's the one thing you really want to take away from this podcast conversation?

00:07:27:09 - 00:07:51:01
Unknown
You can see how that just turns up the heat a little bit from going. That was interesting. Michael Verboten, Even verboten. It was perfectly pleasant to listen to to actually saying they met and and why were those brain snaps and firing so you got a better chance of remembering it. Well, we covered so much in that clip. Mark.

00:07:51:01 - 00:08:22:22
Unknown
I feel like we can kick back and take a cool allergist to break that down. Look, the first thing that I want to call out is the problem that presents itself first is often not the real problem. How true is that? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's I think based on that potentially innate or uncontrollable desire just to change things, You know, here's a problem.

00:08:22:22 - 00:08:43:21
Unknown
Do I run away from it or do I fly into it? I think in a funny four way taking action. And this is certainly for me, Mike, when I've got something that comes over my my table, maybe it's an inbox thing and it's a good proactive project, or maybe it's a question, the propensity that I have. Get on it.

00:08:43:24 - 00:09:03:06
Unknown
Get it out of the way so then I can go back to the other stuff I want to work on. So in a funny, ironic sort of way, it gets deprioritized because it wasn't that 5 minutes ago. Yeah, I'd rather get rid of, you know, it's like whack a mole, right? You just whacking the problem. How about that solution?

00:09:03:08 - 00:09:29:17
Unknown
But what Bongi Stainer is really saying is we need to do that classic exercise of what's. What's the problem? And then why is that a problem? Because of this. Oh, now, why is that a problem? Because of this. And this and this. And investigating is the famous five whys from Toyota. And they believe that if you ask why five times, you get to the root of the problem.

00:09:29:19 - 00:09:51:25
Unknown
And I think that, you know, for example, you know, a really good exercise, the website's not working. Why? Because when I go there, I get an error message. Why? Well, the message is from the hosting provider. Why is it from them? Let's have a look. Oh, it appears we haven't paid for the hosting. Why is the credit card expired?

00:09:52:01 - 00:10:18:22
Unknown
Oh, that's the problem, right? Yeah. And so I think it's really setting up an environment when two people are working together and someone says, you know, you can see it on the screen here. What's on your mind? Well, Michael is really in encouraging and inviting us to do is to really first to ask questions like, why? Tell me more?

00:10:18:23 - 00:10:54:10
Unknown
What else to really extract the context of the problem. Go into the layers. Now, if you want to go further into that, we did shows on first principles, second level, second order thinking we did a whole thinking better series to kind of basically spark your critical thinking. But I think part of the job that we're doing here with this idea is reminding everyone that you need to actually pause, reflect and think before jumping into action.

00:10:54:11 - 00:11:20:20
Unknown
It's like this ancient wisdom is to go fast. You need to go slow right through your eyes, really think it through first and discuss together. And I think when anyone's got a problem, I think you and I both see that people have incredible brains and potential. Often our role as a coach or counselor or just a colleague is just to ask questions to get their thinking in order.

00:11:20:20 - 00:11:49:19
Unknown
Right? Yeah. Yeah, I think you're totally right, Mike, because that's from an individual perspective. The thing that often gets lost, you don't necessarily know how good you are, nor do you necessarily know how to, in a lot of cases, maximize your your time that you have available. So what ends up happening is you when you have a long list of KPIs and items on the to do list, rather than dedicating real time to think.

00:11:49:23 - 00:12:20:07
Unknown
And as Mike was breaking down the real challenge, what is the real challenge that we're trying to solve here? You end up probably creating something that will come back later. So instead of actually addressing the real problem that potentially arises in an early sense. So maybe it's the preemptive question that somebody asks. Okay, Well, yeah, let's let's go ahead and sort that without and maybe that's a bandaid solution.

00:12:20:07 - 00:12:56:13
Unknown
Let's say it's it's a technical problem and there's a build that you need to change. Okay, well, let's not spend too much money figuring out what the problem is. We know it's something to do with this. We'll go out and patch it up rather than spending some real time. Yes, and this could be true of presentations, pitches, any sort of preparation that one needs to do instead of really taking a time to plan it out and make it really good instead of rushing into it could lead to you having to redo it, or at least elements of it later down the line.

00:12:56:15 - 00:13:22:11
Unknown
And you know what comes to mind as you were talking then? Like, how can you understand this better? This situation where we sort of gloss over things, I think is what we're both saying here is the Eisenhower matrix, what's important and urgent. And I think invariably we're fighting against a situation where most of our day is dealing with urgency and deferring and delaying importance because it's not urgent.

00:13:22:12 - 00:14:06:05
Unknown
I can kind of get away with not dealing with it. So I have a feeling that what we're really talking about here is asking questions of the important things and not just quickly, Whac-A-Mole ing, urgent things smashing through, trying to get to Inbox zero, trying to clear things before the Women's World Cup soccer. Tonight. Guilty. And I think these questions all play a role in helping each other think better, because we all want the day our colleagues and our peers, whether we manage them or not, to do better.

00:14:06:06 - 00:14:42:15
Unknown
Right. It's like any sports team. If the defense is playing well, the offense is happy, right? Everyone's winning. And I think making time for these questions is perhaps the best single piece of action. The note to oneself to take from today, because I find that in the busy the business of 2023 making time to ask the questions now that we've presented the questions and we can do a big study of them, ask the questions and really see what's on your mind.

00:14:42:15 - 00:15:09:23
Unknown
And Mark, if you don't mind, can I tell you what's on my mind? Go ahead, Mike. I want to listen. Tell me what the the thing is on your mind, Mark. I am amazed how many people have been a member of the Moonshots podcast for over a year. That's what's on my mind. I think this is amazing. I think funnily enough, Mike, I had a sense that you might even go into that direction as well.

00:15:09:23 - 00:16:00:14
Unknown
So maybe I've been listening in the background after all. But I tell you who else is listening in the background? Mike And that is indeed our members, many of whom are now reaching big one two moment big annual membership. So as always, oh, please welcome Bob, Margene, Ken, DeMar, Marjan, Connor, Rodrigo and Lisa said Mr. Bonduelle, Paul Berg, Kalman, Joe Christian, Samuel, Barbara and Andre, Eric and Chris, Debra Lafave, Steve Craig, Daniel, Andrew, Ravi and Event Mike, like all of those individuals, are now with us for over a year who we might have to eventually break up the annual memberships because it's going to need an entire episode just to call them out.

00:16:00:16 - 00:16:31:12
Unknown
But obviously hot on the heels. And with so and so much gratitude for all of these individuals as well, include Karen, Raul, P.J., Nikola, Ola Ingram, Dirk and Emily, Harry, Karthik Venkatesh, Marco Jett, Robert Anna Rule in Milan, Diana Wade and Christophe and Laura Smitty. Corrie Gaylor, Bertram, Daniella and Mike Nelson, Dan Antonio and Nessa Zachary and brand new member Mike Ryan, who's joined us very, very recently.

00:16:31:12 - 00:16:51:00
Unknown
Welcome, Brian. Welcome all of our members. Yeah, thank you so much for your support. We really love having our members. We love hearing from our members. So go on to Patreon and send us a message. If you're a member, if you're yet to become a member, head to Moonshot studio. Click on the big members button and Magic show happen.

00:16:51:02 - 00:17:15:19
Unknown
Not only will you get the world, a universe of cosmic Moonshot comics will also get access to the Matrix Master series, which is a special show that we produce only for our members. So head over to mention that I and I think that as we've asked ourselves what's on our minds and we're talking things intergalactic, maybe a little bit alien.

00:17:15:24 - 00:17:44:25
Unknown
Mike I think it's only appropriate that we now start talking about monsters on the podcast. Well, that's the Segway. I like it. The Segway that Mike is exactly where Michael is going with his book in the coaching habit. And he's got this very, very unique. What's surprising? But I'll tell you what, relatable idea here, and that's all about the advice giving monster you are an advice giving maniac.

00:17:45:01 - 00:18:11:12
Unknown
I mean you know what happens you ask a question or you just get into a conversation and somebody starts talking. And after approximately 7 seconds, your advice Monster has risen up through the dark and gone, Oh, oh, I'm going to add some value to this conversation. And now you've moved into fake listening. Oh, sure. You're still nodding your head and looking curious, yet concerned, yet caring, yet thoughtful.

00:18:11:14 - 00:18:34:18
Unknown
And you're making those small grunting noises of encouragement. Mm. Yeah. Uh huh. But I know what's going on. You're just waiting for the opportunity for them to shut up or for you to interrupt so you can tell them that piece of advice that you've got, that opinion, that solution, that suggestion. The problem isn't with advice. You know, advice is kind of what makes civilization happens as knowledge passes and changes and becomes more useful.

00:18:34:20 - 00:19:04:18
Unknown
The problem is with your default response to give advice now, it is so tempting to hear a problem and jump throw out. So what about this? How about this? Maybe you could do this. And you know, so much of sharing a problem is like just lessening the burden of that problem right there. What's that saying about burdens and sharing a problem?

00:19:04:20 - 00:19:29:23
Unknown
A problem that is a problem half way we go, Right? That's so much part of this. And I'm I've been really victim of trying to rush to being of help and service when actually what can you do, Mark? And it's right here. It's right here. For those who are our viewers are listening. It is this still mic, this active listening skill.

00:19:29:25 - 00:19:56:14
Unknown
And this is a real game changer. And I think it's a funny idea because it isn't necessarily something that is surprising, you know, the importance of listening. But realistically, it is something that particularly as you get older into more fast paced environments such as work, you lose track of it all, potentially you get bad habits with regards to your listening.

00:19:56:16 - 00:20:31:02
Unknown
And you're right, my problem shared is a problem halved. Therefore, imagine with the benefit that you can get from sharing your problems with others, but how demoralizing and how uninspiring it is when those colleagues, those individuals aren't really listening, then you think, Well, I'm not going to bother sharing it well, and it becomes a vicious cycle. I think you cannot perform the Toyota five wise if you're not active listening, because if you're not truly present as someone.

00:20:31:04 - 00:20:57:16
Unknown
Well, let's go back to the example I was giving. The website's not working. What if you're not active listening when you're asking those questions to help your friend or colleague, you might start to come across a bit judgmental. Why is the website not working? Might not like, you know, and nobody wants to continue a conversation with Mike when he's sounding judgmental or angry, frustrated.

00:20:57:18 - 00:21:32:01
Unknown
So this list that we see here is asking open questions like why? Tell me more? I think what I'm hearing is this. Is that correct? You know, that that actually saying it back to them, the summarizing and so forth. But I think there's another part of this, which is when people share things. For example, I had a call very early this morning from someone in the US and what they and I would discuss was it was a good thing that had happened and it was an unplanned call.

00:21:32:03 - 00:22:06:03
Unknown
But what was really important is that I establish how exciting the news they had was and how good they must feel that this thing was happening. And really almost acknowledging and sharing in the reward recognition and the happiness they were feeling from this moment. Because I think the reason they reached out to call me very early in the morning still doing my strength was that they were so excited.

00:22:06:03 - 00:22:25:01
Unknown
They wanted to share it. They wanted to bask in the good news together. Right. And if I wasn't active listening, I may have taken the conversation other way, but I felt that what this person, if I reflect about, they just needed to say, Look what I've done. They needed like someone to say, Well, good on you, that must feel great.

00:22:25:01 - 00:22:59:10
Unknown
And they were like, Yeah, and they didn't need like an hour of praise. They needed just a little of it. And you get there if you're working hard with your is and not jumping to conclusions and I'll give you a big treatment. And I'm interested in as you experience this, I feel if I defer any judgment or solution, I feel if I ask three questions on a particular topic that I invariably, since the solution naturally.

00:22:59:12 - 00:23:32:18
Unknown
So I don't need to stress about getting to a solution quickly because I feel like, you know, Toyota says, ask why five times. I think my ex-wives ask why three times? It's already pretty good. So don't you don't you you feel like if you're talking to a friend of partner or a colleague and there's a problem, I feel like the path, even though you might not be ready to talk about it in your mind, it starts to appear certainly by about three.

00:23:32:18 - 00:23:57:01
Unknown
Like Tell Me More's like one clarification. What do you think when you're when you're working with So how does it play out? I think you're right. I think it's modular. So sometimes you will have a problem that's very, very complex, possibly involving different teams, different solutions, different layers and so so on that then you need to dig in actually a little bit.

00:23:57:03 - 00:24:18:06
Unknown
In my experience, it's somewhat similar to yourself. My when I have encouraged colleagues to share something that they're working on, maybe they're stuck, maybe they're going round in circles. Okay, Well, I don't know necessarily what you're working on. Why don't you just use me as a sounding board? There's no right or wrong answer. Tell me what the problem is.

00:24:18:08 - 00:24:44:02
Unknown
What I found, in fact, is that sometimes when that individual and I'm referring actually to a very specific example in my mind, that individual would then talk to me through this problem and they would answer their own question, walking me through. So you have to it's not purely, you know, the benefit of that, though, is there 100% going to action the solution, because it's their idea.

00:24:44:04 - 00:25:13:04
Unknown
It's their idea. Exactly. So I think there's this modular element, I suppose we call it is, is structured in a way that potentially could be even less than three because you're asking that individual, well, just start at the beginning. Tell me what's going on. And when you go when they're going through it, I find that occasionally, like you say, maybe it's three, maybe those three on back to back.

00:25:13:06 - 00:25:52:15
Unknown
Maybe they are. Okay. Well, why is that the problem here? Okay, well, what else is going on? Why is that problem there? And invariably, again, and maybe this is only because it's a surface level solution potentially, and actually the job needs to be a little bit deeper. Like I say, those individuals will walk away. Having shared that problem and having felt as though they had an individual who was listening and therefore receptive to the idea they feel more confident, more confident, more happy with the solution that they've come up with, because it's been somewhat stress test.

00:25:52:17 - 00:26:24:25
Unknown
And I think this might is something that definitely for me at least came down during COVID. In the years since, the idea of working more remote, less face to face with people, the times that I find were my best collaboration sessions were moments when it was face to face times where you put it up on a big whiteboard, come up with an idea, bouncing backwards and forwards, actively listening to each other in order to stress test, try to figure out whether that solution is in fact correct.

00:26:24:25 - 00:26:46:04
Unknown
Well, what about if a typhoon came? You know, it might be an idea that only your individual, your colleague, could come up with by listening to that and thinking, okay, yeah, maybe it's not typhoon, but maybe there is something unplanned that happens. Yeah, maybe I do need to account for that. And that similarly to where you went earlier, Mike, is the value.

00:26:46:04 - 00:27:11:25
Unknown
I think of something like a second order thinking approach. Yes. Where you can either go through that yourself and think about all those different potential environments you might run into or potentially even more dynamically and more worthwhile doing that with a colleague or friend or a mentor, and really utilizing that time with them to to scope out what else might come through, through that technique, I think is pretty beneficial too.

00:27:12:03 - 00:27:46:03
Unknown
Absolutely. You know, I would say that whether people are quote unquote, reporting to you or not in your team or not employing active listening and asking these questions will not only serve the people around you, but talk about natural leaders emerging through active listening, asking why, what's on your mind, what's keeping you up at night, and just really taking it in and letting that person share building and clarifying together with them.

00:27:46:09 - 00:28:20:12
Unknown
That is the value of active listening. And I tell you what, Mike, I love active listening. I'm, you know, one of my favorite passions. I go into the Spotify app and we can see the feedback now that you can leave per episode in Spotify, you can go and say, I love this episode on Mike Michael Bingo Stain. It might be similar, or else you could go if you wanted to write some feedback in a podcast that there is another place you can leave for review is that Yes there is, Mike, and I believe it's something called the Apple Podcast App.

00:28:20:15 - 00:28:40:18
Unknown
If you are listeners listening in via Apple Podcasts, feel free. In fact, we encourage it. Pop open the app, leave us a rating or even a review, because every single time we get a notification that one of you has got in touch with us, we will read it, we will condense it, we will understand and reply to it.

00:28:40:18 - 00:29:04:00
Unknown
So thank you so much and maybe even give you a shout out on the show. Maybe that's the real call to action here, Mike. And for those of you that are watching, you will know that we answer all the comments on YouTube within literally 48 hours. We do get quite a bit of commentary already. I think, Mike, we already have like three or 4000 people subscribing to the show on YouTube.

00:29:04:02 - 00:29:26:20
Unknown
We now make a video version. So for those of you listening to us, head over to YouTube because you will find at least the fine looking young gentleman of Madison, Freelon is my guy. He's a bit dodgy. He's been hard on the eyes. But I tell you what, Soulja through, because we've got more questions for Michael Bungay Stainer to help you become a better coach.

00:29:26:20 - 00:29:53:01
Unknown
So where do we go next, man? Well, Mike, look, I think it is obviously the moonshot show, but as an individual who we often bring into the fold and that's productivity game. So now let's hit productivity game. He's going to build on where we've been leading today on Michael Boom Guy's ten years book and he's going to lean specifically into four big questions that he believes are worth exploring even further.

00:29:53:03 - 00:30:22:11
Unknown
Question number one What's on your mind when you ask what's on your mind? You invite the person you're coaching to skip the small talk and get to what matters. Stan your says rather than talk about the weather or how the sports team is doing and any other superficial, boring and simply useless chitchat get to what matters, what's provoking anxiety, what's all consuming, what's waking them up at 4 a.m. When you ask what's in your mind, you're essentially saying, I'm here for you.

00:30:22:14 - 00:30:47:05
Unknown
I want to help you work through whatever's bothering me. But if you ask what's in your mind and you still feel like they're holding something back, all of their answers with what else? What else acts like a pressure relief valve, gives them permission to open up and allow important but uncomfortable issues to flow out, Stenner says, asking What else creates more wisdom, more insights and more self-awareness than any other question.

00:30:47:07 - 00:31:04:16
Unknown
But there's one downside asking what else you may get flooded with. A long list of challenges might tell you about this for projects they're worried about, the five people they're frustrated with, or the two angry emails they don't know how to respond to. It's tempting to pick out what you think the most important problem is and start offering advice.

00:31:04:19 - 00:31:26:18
Unknown
But if you tell someone what to do, you're essentially raising your status and lowering theirs by saying, Hey, I have all the answers and you don't. When you lower their status, you strip them of the confidence they need to make their own decisions. So instead of deciding what they should focus on, ask them what's the real challenge here for you see, when someone's stressed and overwhelmed, everything feels like a challenge.

00:31:26:20 - 00:31:55:19
Unknown
But when you ask someone what's the real challenge here? You get the person you're coaching to pause and look inward. And in turn, what one challenge, if resolved, would provide the greatest relief? Or put another way, what rock in their backpack of challenges could you help them remove and alleviate the most amount of stress? Yesterday morning cleaning my house would have provided me with a mild sense of relief, but I knew that finishing this video would provide me with the greatest sense of relief at that time.

00:31:55:21 - 00:32:17:10
Unknown
I find that the real challenge is often the challenge I'm avoiding most. So the next time you're coaching someone through a stressful situation and they insist on focusing on petty issues that you know won't matter a week from now, say that sounds like a challenge, but what's the real challenge here for you when you include the word you in your question, You make the question easier to answer.

00:32:17:12 - 00:32:41:22
Unknown
In a 1997 study, researchers discovered that when the word you was presented in a math question, students came to solutions faster and more accurately than if you was left out. So to help someone prioritize, ask them, What's the real challenge here for you? Once they discover the real challenge, help them develop a strategy to overcome that challenge by asking the fourth and final question.

00:32:41:24 - 00:33:02:06
Unknown
If you're saying yes to this, what are you saying no to? In other words, if you're saying yes to dealing with this challenge, how are you going to make space to focus on that challenge? If you're saying yes to completing a challenging project, are you going to say no to useless meetings? Even if saying no might upset your boss or your coworkers?

00:33:02:08 - 00:33:23:24
Unknown
If you're saying yes to being self-employed and turning that passion project into a profitable business. Are you willing to say no to distractions and delete Facebook, Twitter and Instagram off your phone? Are you willing to say no to watching TV at night and going out with friends on the weekend? Saying yes to overcoming a real challenge requires more time and energy than the person you're coaching may think.

00:33:24:00 - 00:33:59:04
Unknown
By asking if you're saying yes to this, what are you saying no to? You're helping them strategically free up time and energy to focus on what matters. As business coach Michael Porter says, the essence of strategy is choosing what not to do. Oh, boy. My saying no, I mean, I can go some places for that, but I just I kind of want to ponder that for a moment and remind people of what was at the front of that clip and discuss it together because when we rush to offer, here's what you should do.

00:33:59:08 - 00:34:34:21
Unknown
When we say those words, we're effectively saying, I know better than you. Yeah. So the real science of it is you actually create hierarchy, which isn't great for an open learning vibe. You know what I mean? So I think it's really important to try and act as a guide to helping someone to uncover the solution themselves and prompting nudging them along the way rather than you trying to be the talismanic guru appearing with great theater and aplomb.

00:34:34:23 - 00:34:59:07
Unknown
Dunno, your solution is this. You just need to do three steps regard with you. So I just wanted to point out I find that very helpful to overcome the temptation of being the advice monster, right? Yeah. I think this is a very, very big takeaway from that clip we just heard as well as the book itself, because for me.

00:34:59:07 - 00:35:21:19
Unknown
Mike Yeah, I've certainly been guilty of that. I've certainly been guilty of jumping in. And and you're right, it does create that subconscious idea within us. And again, I've been on the receiving end of it and whether I would care to admit it or not, it probably is something that made me feel insecure, made me feel maybe, perhaps less capable.

00:35:21:25 - 00:35:46:16
Unknown
Yeah. I think the other piece, Mike, that was, again, at the front end of that clip, which I know you're going to gravitate to as well, is jumping to the meat of the conversation. So the idea of when we're sitting down with an individual, let's say it's a colleague, maybe somebody who has come to us with a real problem rather than taking up a lot of time.

00:35:46:16 - 00:36:08:09
Unknown
And sometimes I've been on the other side the time when I want to, you know, express some Australian anxiety, tell them what's keeping me up at night. But the that groundwork that, you know, you have to put in self-talk sometimes gets in the way and it really eats into the time you want to try and share the problem.

00:36:08:14 - 00:36:33:09
Unknown
Maybe, maybe getting to the solution is the next step. Yes. Being able to actually share the problem and take your hat off and raise a hand and say, actually, I need help sometimes. That's a pretty hard thing to do. Oh, so spot on there, because many of the times these conversations are not with willing participants. And what I mean is this is let's use the metaphor of doctor patient.

00:36:33:12 - 00:37:06:18
Unknown
Right. Let's say where the Dr. Mark and one of our colleagues is a patient and they've got a problem. Sometimes they don't know they've got a problem, sometimes they know they've got a problem, but they don't want to talk about it because they're embarrassed and they feel like it looks like they're a failure. Sometimes things have got so bad they have to talk about it, but they are not willing to take ownership for it, which means you have to cover all of this ground before you can even consider solutions.

00:37:06:18 - 00:37:46:01
Unknown
Or in this case, a medicine for a patient. Because if they don't agree that the arms broken, they won't go into surgery to have it straightened out. Right. Like they will reject it. And I think this is absolutely essential to realize that you may not get it first time in the first conversation. It might take days or weeks, and it all comes down to shut the you know, what up, ask the right questions and really help people clear their mind, clear their heart of what's really bothering you so that you can move on to really embracing.

00:37:46:07 - 00:38:19:15
Unknown
Okay, well, we have a clear problem. This is a success already because a clear solution requires a clean problem statement. Right. And good solutions come from a clearly defined problem. So I feel like that's sort of the momentum build out of the back of that, don't you? Yeah, I really, really do. And I think there's an element there which really reinforces this idea of awareness and awareness of potentially your colleague, but also an awareness within yourself.

00:38:19:18 - 00:38:41:04
Unknown
You need to be aware of that big question that we had at the beginning. What's keeping up a night sometimes we might not even know what keeping us up at night because we're so potentially oblivious to it. Yeah, and through very simple acts such as we've discussed on the set for obviously a favorite for all this journaling, This is a big one for me.

00:38:41:04 - 00:39:05:14
Unknown
When I do have my set, when I'm, you know, literally being kept up at night, the thing too will be Jono, it will help me that, you know, get out. Maybe that I wouldn't say frustration, but any confusion that I might have. And more often than not, you'll help me figure out, Hey, that's funny. I never thought I sound like this, but actually I was like, that's where it's going.

00:39:05:16 - 00:39:32:14
Unknown
So that self-awareness, I think, really leans into the ability to, you know, a raise a hand, but also be be an active listener, be conscious of how you're feeling across as you're sitting on the other side of the table. Be conscious of how you are either a giving advice will be receiving it. I suppose this brings up a lot of memories for me with Chris Voss.

00:39:32:16 - 00:39:59:14
Unknown
Yeah, the negotiation techniques that we were really learning from him leading to this, I think particularly that active listening as well as the usage of you and the hierarchy, that you can subconsciously create the, the other book and show that I would references leaders the last by Simon in it, which enforced the fact the job of the leaders to put the needs of his subordinates first and to care for them right.

00:39:59:16 - 00:40:27:19
Unknown
And to nurture them. Now we have presented in this book about coaching from Michael Bungay saying, and we presented seven questions, four questions, and we're going to keep on a little bit on this question thing, because back in this world where we need radical simplification, minimization, he actually has a favorite question, and I think it would be very good to understand what that is.

00:40:27:21 - 00:40:44:17
Unknown
Yeah, I think you're right, Mike. It's very well for you and I to have all favorites, as I'm sure we'll discuss shortly. But let's hear from Michael. He's now talking to Marshall Goldsmith and he's going to talk about how he's got one particular. I'm not going to spoil it favorite out of those seven he wants to share with us.

00:40:44:17 - 00:41:00:17
Unknown
Now, I love your philosophy and I love the idea of asking questions. Yeah, you have to say, what is that one question? That's the most important. What is it? Well, I love that you ask me that, because in the book I'm like, Here are the seven questions. And if you have these seven questions and so can you help me?

00:41:00:17 - 00:41:14:25
Unknown
So I'm going to save you every time. But it will be good for you almost every time, right? And then I get asked all the time. So what's your favorite question? I was like, seven. What's your favorite question? What's the one? And I'm like, Well, I love them all. They're like, I don't have children, but if I did have children, they'd be like my children.

00:41:15:00 - 00:41:35:18
Unknown
Like, they're all great in their own way. But but if there was one question, I would say this is the best coaching question in the world. I think there is that question. What is it? Three words. Just three words. The acronym for the three words, a W, e So literally an awesome question. And the question is this and what else?

00:41:35:23 - 00:41:52:11
Unknown
And well, and what else. And I know when I tell people that's the best coaching question in the world, there's almost a palpable sense of anticlimax in the room because they're like, oh, so it's going to be something amazing, something that would open up the universe. It has. What else? Well, thank you for saying that, because here's why.

00:41:52:11 - 00:42:14:04
Unknown
And what else is so powerful? Two reasons for reason Is this The first answer somebody gives you is almost never their only answer and is really their best answer. Right? So if you leave with any of the other questions, like what's the real challenge here for you? Or what do you want or what what what was most valuable From this conversation?

00:42:14:06 - 00:42:33:20
Unknown
They'll give you their first answer and then you go, Great, what else? And they'll always have something else say, and you're helping them learn. You're helping to be a teacher for them there. But here's the second reason then. What else is so powerful? It's a self-management tool, because what I would say is that most people struggle. Just keep curious in conversation.

00:42:33:22 - 00:42:53:15
Unknown
And when somebody normally goes, you say something like, So what's the challenge here? And they give you an answer. You part of you go, Oh, this is amazing. We've found an absolute get on that. And what I would call the advice monster brings up out of the dark and goes, Oh, this is great. Marshall. We've about to add some value to this conversation with my advice Monster.

00:42:53:17 - 00:43:16:11
Unknown
And what you're trying to do is take your advice. What's the cost? Keep it a bit quiet in the background and asking, and what else is a self management tool to keep your advice amongst the quiet, the curious a little bit longer, and let's see where this conversation actually goes and what else. I mean, this is music to my ears.

00:43:16:13 - 00:43:50:25
Unknown
I've really only framed it as asking why a lot like why and why and why. But I actually do like And what else? Because you're inviting them to go further and beyond. And what like what a golden rule is like. Listen, to understand. I mean, this was one of the Stephen Covey rules, but most importantly, you just keep asking questions to your colleague, your peer, and just don't be in a rush.

00:43:51:01 - 00:44:14:01
Unknown
And what else and after that and why is that and how did that work? And help me understand explain that some more or why was that such a challenge? And I think that the big lesson here is have empathy for the people you're working with. Take time to ask questions. And then I am such a firm believer in humanity.

00:44:14:01 - 00:44:41:10
Unknown
But I think that we all have this incredible smarts and potential. And I think asking questions and safe discussion is the path to unlocking that potential. Because if you feel safe that you're not going to be judged what you're going to say, and then you can truly speak what's really happening. Patrick going, Tony would say, you're building the trust behind five layers of a high performing team.

00:44:41:12 - 00:45:09:16
Unknown
Yeah, I think you're totally right, Mike. I think what's the only bill I can do? That is what Michael was saying in a final clip. The first answer that either you give or somebody else gives is really either a the actual answer will be the best or like I ask. Yeah, I think it's like, you know, the Russian dolls have there's these lengths that you need to exactly remove like an onion.

00:45:09:16 - 00:45:35:23
Unknown
You need to cut through, peel it off, cut through, peel it off. And sometimes it's easier with people that you're really familiar with. Sometimes it's not. But if you always start a problem solving conversation and say, I'm a coach and I'm going to peel back the layers here to help the other person, you're effectively saying, What's keeping you up and what else?

00:45:36:03 - 00:46:17:17
Unknown
Why? Tell me more. Help me understand like getting those prompts rolling and frankly, just trust your intuition that solutions and at least pathways will appear to you within 30 minutes for sure. Within 30 minutes. Yeah, I agree. And really my this reminds me that a lot of the time when you turn in, let's say you have a deliverable, let's say it's a book, something extreme, maybe it's a presentation or pitch again, rather than spending an hour or so throwing it out via email and saying, Cool, that was good enough.

00:46:17:19 - 00:46:42:11
Unknown
We've got to hold ourselves accountable and think, is that really the best I can do? Am I holding myself up to a high enough standard? Should I like we discussed in the show, make a bit of a skeleton idea. Let's have a table of content as we think about what this approach should be. And I'll come back to it again using and what else you're creating that pause in conversation.

00:46:42:13 - 00:47:09:15
Unknown
I would argue that we could also create a pause in the deliverable deliveries of work. Maybe it's an hour, maybe it's just a walk on the block. Maybe it's just a conversation with a colleague or better still, a day or so to let it sit. I think creating that time to let things sort of percolate, to let your ideas come through, to make sure that the work is about the hand in is going to be the best it can be.

00:47:09:18 - 00:47:31:22
Unknown
Fundamentally, I think that's going to then circumvent a negative feedback that maybe a leader or a manager is going to give because you're taking the action upon yourself, you're putting yourself into that position. Well, what else would they ask of me? Maybe I can ask it myself so that somebody else doesn't need to. Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

00:47:31:22 - 00:48:01:13
Unknown
I mean, this is just so right. This moment when we're so busy. This is about pause and reflection and conversation. And frankly, it sounds more rewarding and more meaningful as a way of thinking, doesn't it? It sounds really nice. You know, again, this idea of active listening, although it might not sound like such a big reveal, I really think it is.

00:48:01:15 - 00:48:25:11
Unknown
Because if every conversation and important conversation that I have, I knew that the other person was really listening, really wanting to help. And I do it every time and it's really true. So this is my we've covered full questions, seven questions. We've talked about monsters and Orleans. What's going to be your homework assignment coming out of this show?

00:48:25:14 - 00:48:51:19
Unknown
Yeah, that's a tricky one. Mike. I think the I think this idea of what else is actually going to be the thing that sticks with me today, because again, as you've just highlighted, it's a very, very fast paced time, very fast paced world. We're somewhat addicted maybe to getting things off our places quickly as possible. Take a breath, have a pause, ask what else, what else can I put into this presentation?

00:48:51:24 - 00:49:11:08
Unknown
What else could I do that would be a value add? Maybe I can give my clients something else, a little bonus that would help them remember who I am and the work that I'm doing. What else can I do? Not only listening, but action as well, I think is sticking out for me. What about you, Mike? What's coming out from Michael being astonished today?

00:49:11:10 - 00:49:40:01
Unknown
How many lights this thing of you know what you say yes to means? What are you saying? Notes? Yeah, I think. Good one. I think that's something that I can work on. So I have my homework assignment. So, Mark, I want to thank you. I want to thank our members, our viewers, our listeners for this which has been shown 232 with Michael Bungay Steiner and his book The Coaching Habit.

00:49:40:01 - 00:50:18:02
Unknown
And we had four big chapters, the first of which was we laid the foundation. We learned to listen and to ask, and we knew quite squarely we were facing off against the biggest challenge, the Advice Monster, where we want to have all the answers so quickly. But we realized if we do a little listening, we can ask seven or maybe your favorite four questions, which is all about understanding what's going on, asking what else, asking how can we get committed to understanding this and to the solution to and empowering the person?

00:50:18:04 - 00:50:41:06
Unknown
No creating hierarchies. And when in doubt, if you're lost in these conversations of coaching, just ask and what else? And the path will appear. And I hope it does appear so that you can learn out loud together so that you can become the best version of yourself in the best performing teams, because that's what we're all about here on the Moonshots podcast.

00:50:41:08 - 00:50:43:05
Unknown
That's a wrap.